First of all, nevermind the hooker, it's not supposed to be a hooker firing the gun, but I started out just playing around with her (maybe that sounds a bit wrong) and soon I had her firing a gun..
Second, the speed of the animation was a lot better in Adobe ImageReady. In Firefox/IE it slowed down quite a bit, so just.. imagine that it's faster :P
Anyways, I'll get to the point. I look at the animation, and I think something is missing, but I can't exactly put my finger on what it is. Could it be that she's firing a gun, but the recoil is hardly noticable? Maybe I should make her flinch a bit, closing her eyes as the gun goes off..
I've been staring myself blind at this thing the past hour while working on it, so I could really use some input..
(http://www.davidostman.com/primecity/wip/sprites/hooker_firing_gun.gif)
(Oh, and sorry about the big © - we live in dangerous times and I'm paranoid :P)
That is quite awesome.
The only thing I've noticed is that only her arm moves when she fires the gun.
Would be nice to see her shoulders and torso be affected from the recoil.
Here's what I came up with after about an hour and a half worth of tweaking, and I think it looks a bit better.. got some hair swaying now, and the body reacting a bit more to the recoil.
(http://www.davidostman.com/primecity/wip/sprites/hooker_firing_gun2.gif)
With the amount of time I put down on this animation, I think I need to write this into my game somewhere :P
Whoa, that's great. Can't find anything to be picky at either ::)
Great job, this should defenately go into a game, otherwise It's a waste of a good character!! ;)
try taking out frames 10, 12 and 13, she fires the gun very slowly and removing these frames will add a KICK to the gun
Thanks :) Well.. just added some facial expressions to the one above.
Noticed the shading along her left leg is a big rough, so I need to smoothen that out.. as well as after I've slept, hehe..
.. but before that..
Removing frames 10, 12, and 13? *tries* Ooh, yeah that's exactly what it needed:
(http://www.davidostman.com/primecity/wip/sprites/hooker_firing_gun3.gif)
Thanks a lot, Colossal ;D
The gun tilting down at the end looks weird to me (like it goes limp) but other than that I'm quite impressed.
I think the animation is great, and Mr Colossals suggestion fits it to a tee.
Just two small points:
- That gun looks pretty heavy. I think she'd have trouble aiming with a single hand.
- IMO her belly is a tiny bit too staight in the standing frame and I think the swaying of the hair is slightly too much.
But that's just nitpicking. Congrats on a great animation.
I am at work, making a break, I have no time to read allpost, so, sorry if this has been said before... But I think it would be cool to see the "pod" of the bullet being explused from the gun and leave it smoking in the floor for 3 or 4 frames...
Good start to the animation!
I'm not sure what kind of gun she's holding but it doesn't look like a six shooter. If that's the case there should be some action on the gun.
- The top part of the gun should slide back as it's fired.
- a casing should be ejected from the chamber as well
- Some more detailing on the gun couldn't hurt
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/kryaal_help01.gif)
Farlander posts while I'm typing ;)
The more I look at it I realized something else ... you shoult be able to see more of the handle of the gun through her hand. It almost looks like she's got two right hands!
That looks absolutely amazing! I still need to make a gunfire animation sometime for my own game, so this is a major inspiration. Thanks.
How do you make such clean and smmoth animations?
practis practise practice. and a basic gif compiler, i think theres alot of free ones out there.
Can you take the copyright out? I want to steal your image!
You should also make her 'lady bumps' bounce a little when she fires the gun.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Thu 12/05/2005 21:41:36
You should also make her 'lady bumps' bounce a little when she fires the gun.
So that's all you see in women, huh?!
That animation is suffering from a severe case of the awesome.
It might have had a bit more impact if she'd actually put her other hand up and looked away as she fired the gun but that's too late to change now and unnessercery...
First, I would like to congratulate you in making some awesome stuff - and welcome to the forums.
For critics,
* I think that right shoe looks a bit weird, you could fix this extra pixel there.
* And yes, the gun should not be flexible, as it looks right now.
* Firearms usually apply recoil pressure to shoulder. You could try to make shoulder move back more. Not sure about light handguns though.
* The hand, where it holds the piece, is a mess. A suggestion here:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/inc_hooker.png)
Also, the copyright stuff is pretty useless, because no-one actually steals anyone's images here, and you could have more edits and paintovers if you'd remove the copyright crap.
Which would help more.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Thu 12/05/2005 21:41:36
You should also make her 'lady bumps' bounce a little when she fires the gun.
If you add this I will destroy you in 3 different dimensions... I hope to hell Darth was kidding
:o That's what I call quality animation. I was going to bug you about the slow gun fire but I see it's already fixed. The result of the mods add great improvements, I might add.
Only thing I would change:
She's not dressed like a hooker! Maybe as a sassy girl, but I would't dare to ask "Hey, babe! How much?".
Maybe it's just me (and my Brazillian hooker visual repertory) but how about adding high heels, some leather clothes (get rid of that pink top!) and large ear-rings/bracelets? Maybe a extravagant wig?
Great, great, animation, dude. Keep the good work.
Cheers,
Stefano
Quote from: Stefano on Fri 13/05/2005 02:27:54
Only thing I would change:
She's not dressed like a hooker! Maybe as a sassy girl, but I would't dare to ask "Hey, babe! How much?".
stefano, did you read the first line of this thread?
Quote from: Kyraal on Thu 12/05/2005 04:46:51
First of all, nevermind the hooker, it's not supposed to be a hooker firing the gun...
and seriously, you do not need the copyright symbol. thats ridiculous.
fantastic animation so far. I can't wait to see more.
animation looks really good, except that the gun has very odd kick to it...honestly a hooker would have weak girly arms and holding it with 1 hand, the gun would kick back quite a bit going around 100 fps...in this pic, the kick appears to be EXTREMELY delayed which makes the animation look very odd to me. I think you should condence all of the kick into ****1*** frame. The quality of the girl's stance, her hair, is very nice.
The only problem I have that nobody else seems to have mentioned is that her left arm is too short. The general rule is if you're standing up straight, your elbow is at your waist and your fingertips are at your mid-thigh. For her stance, lower the elbow a tiny bit and make her forearm longer and she'll look more in proportion. That's just a little nitpick for an otherwise awesome piece. I love the way the hair bounces.
Now, this was a lot of response, so I'll see what I can do to react to it all..
In order of appeareance:
Quote from: ProgZmaxThe gun tilting down at the end looks weird to me (like it goes limp) [...]
Was going for a bit more relaxed hand-pose, unless you mean the metal of the gun itself seems to go limp?
Quote from: aussieThat gun looks pretty heavy. I think she'd have trouble aiming with a single hand.
Yeah, I did animate it so that the gun should look heavy, but I don't think it's so heavy that she gets too much trouble aiming. Also, does take a moment to stabilise it before firing, though.
Quote from: aussieIMO her belly is a tiny bit too staight in the standing frame and I think the swaying of the hair is slightly too much.
You are quite right about that, and it's something I was supposed to fix before animating her, but since I got carried away I never got around. Not too late, though :)
Quote from: FarlanderBut I think it would be cool to see the "pod" of the bullet being explused from the gun and leave it smoking in the floor for 3 or 4 frames
It would be a really cool effect. I had it planned to be that way at first, a case ejecting, but then figured I'd be lazy and make it caseless-ammunition -- which naturally doesn't fit well with the rest of the story, so I'm just going to scrap that idea and add a case being ejected.. :)
Quote from: Dath MandarbI'm not sure what kind of gun she's holding but it doesn't look like a six shooter. If that's the case there should be some action on the gun.
It's supposed to be a futuristic gun of some sort of make and model, but you are right, it's not a revolver. I really like the one you made, and I'll see if I can make something similar, myself.
The gun is just a placeholder, though. The very few times I've made 2D animation I've always tried to get the general motion of it down first, before adding details to 'separate' objects like, for instance, guns.
Quote from: Darth MandardYou should also make her 'lady bumps' bounce a little when she fires the gun.
Hehe, yeah, the girlfriend pointed this out as well.. :P
Quote from: EggieIt might have had a bit more impact if she'd actually put her other hand up and looked away as she fired the gun but that's too late to change now and unnessercery...
This is the second 2D-animation I've made (first one being the walkcycle for the main character), so while the idea of her supporting the gun with a second hand, and turning her head away as the shot goes off, would fit perfectly, it was just feeling a bit too daunting at the time to consider :)
Now that I've been playing around with it some more it doesn't seem all that scary, and I might revisit it and do it something like that. Or just use the idea for another character :)
Quote from: InCreatorI think that right shoe looks a bit weird, you could fix this extra pixel there.
The pixel sticking out from her heel, right? Yep, I'll get rid of that one.
Quote from: InCreatorFirearms usually apply recoil pressure to shoulder. You could try to make shoulder move back more. Not sure about light handguns though.
Yeah, I have a feeling light handguns might work differently. While the kickback you can see in the animation suggest a seriously powerful recoil, it really shouldn't be, seeing how that's a small caliber firearm. I think I'll just settle with the the recoil being absorbed by the bending and upward motion of the arm, as well as perhaps imagining her shoulder moves back a bit behind her hair ;)
Quote from: InCreatorAlso, the copyright stuff is pretty useless, because no-one actually steals anyone's images here, and you could have more edits and paintovers if you'd remove the copyright crap.
Agreed, it's pretty redundant and it does make paintovers slightly more difficult. Will stay away from it in the future :)
Quote from: StefanoShe's not dressed like a hooker! Maybe as a sassy girl, but I would't dare to ask "Hey, babe! How much?".
I think perhaps you have more experience with hookers than i have.. ;) .. but seriously speaking, I'm trying to stay away a bit from the stereotypes. Granted, I'll be using quite a few since it does add a bit of a nice flavour, but.. all right, perhaps I'm just trying to excuse myself here, hehe..
Quote from: Scummbuddyand seriously, you do not need the copyright symbol. thats ridiculous.
Definitely, won't have to see those in the future :)
Quote from: stuh505honestly a hooker would have weak girly arms and holding it with 1 hand, the gun would kick back quite a bit going around 100 fps...
Oh, I don't know.. Guns are tricky things. We're lead to believe by Hollywood that handguns are portable Big Berthas (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWbertha.htm) that will knock a guy out of his socks when firing them, and send badguys flying out through windows.. Again, I'm no expert in hookers, but her profession aside I think I'll let her be a strong little woman who can handle the recoil nicely.
Quote from: stuh505in this pic, the kick appears to be EXTREMELY delayed which makes the animation look very odd to me. I think you should condence all of the kick into ****1*** frame.
The delay was a delibarate choice, to give it a little overshot (I can probably not use that term in this instance, but I'll do it anyway). It's not something that bugs me too much, and is in fact the way I prefer it to be. But still, thanks for the input :)
Quote from: PestyThe only problem I have that nobody else seems to have mentioned is that her left arm is too short. The general rule is if you're standing up straight, your elbow is at your waist and your fingertips are at your mid-thigh. For her stance, lower the elbow a tiny bit and make her forearm longer and she'll look more in proportion.
I did initially make her anatomically correct, the way you described it, but it just didn't look good. But that's just me not very comfortable with this kind of low-res graphics just yet, and particularly when there's 'organics' involved I get trouble, especially at joints..
So in conclusion..Thanks for a lot of great feedback. I will take it to heart, and while I've decided to just make a couple of smaller tweaks (and add a real gun) I won't work too much on this particular animation as I need to move on to actually make some progress; but I've got a lot of things to keep in mind that will definitely help me out. So thank you :)
On recoil and weight: It depends greatly upon what type/caliber it is. Some animators, game creators and even filmmakers have overlooked kickback in the past - particularly how an automatic weapon will ride upwards unless it's got a compensation mechanism or is held by a burly soon-to-be-governator person. To make up for this, they seem to have given even a .22 pistol enough kickback to cause bruised joints. Because of the way her arm is held in firing position, I'd imagine a twitch in the torso and upward riding of the hand as well as slight flex in the elbow - not too much more than that unless it's a powerful weapon (.45 vs. a 9mm or something).
Another factor that gets exagerrated is weight. There are some hefty pistols but yours looks a bit more like a plasticy low-caliber type. There aren't too many handguns that even a fairly weak person couldn't level for a moment before firing - it's after it's held for a few moments that you'd begin to waver. Her firing position doesn't seem physically improbable to me, just highly amateurish and unlikely to hit anything more than a short distance away. I like the third pic with the frames dropped. I think the 1 (maybe 2) frame for kickback suggestion is a good one though. It should be rather instantaneous, but to each his/her own.
QuoteOh, I don't know.. Guns are tricky things. We're lead to believe by Hollywood that handguns are portable Big Berthas that will knock a guy out of his socks when firing them, and send badguys flying out through windows.. Again, I'm no expert in hookers, but her profession aside I think I'll let her be a strong little woman who can handle the recoil nicely.
Hehe, ok, that's understandable. However, I am somewhat of an expert in firearms, caliber, and recoil. I have worked to derive mathematical equations for accurately calculating recoil, tissue displacement in wounds, and many other ballistic situations. Firearm statistics is a big hobby of mine on the side of AGS. I can tell you that anyone who holds a gun like that, be it a little girl or a full grown man, will have the gun kick back a lot. When a gun kicks, it happens instantly. That is the point. It is completely unrealistic to have her fire, and then wait a frame or more than 1 frame to have her arm move back. At that point, what you as an animator are saying is "there is zero kick, she has chosen to lift the gun afterwards of her own volition."
Hollywood would have you believe a load of bull. They would have you believe that a bullet can knock a man back. This is obviously false as any physicist can tell you. The felt effect of a bullet from a medium caliber handgun is about the same as dropping a brick from a height of 1 foot onto your chest. So, it could perhaps make you take a step back in shock, but it will not throw you back (that goes for even .50 caliber "sniper" rifles)
Quote from: Scummbuddy on Fri 13/05/2005 03:55:15
Quote from: Stefano on Fri 13/05/2005 02:27:54
Only thing I would change:
She's not dressed like a hooker! Maybe as a sassy girl, but I would't dare to ask "Hey, babe! How much?".
stefano, did you read the first line of this thread?
Quote from: Kyraal on Thu 12/05/2005 04:46:51
First of all, nevermind the hooker, it's not supposed to be a hooker firing the gun...
Oops! My bad.
It was fun writting it, thow. ;D
I understand where you're coming from. Realistically the recoil should probably affect her more than it does now. I made some modifications to try and make it look better, but I don't think it worked out very well.. :(
(http://davidostman.com/primecity/wip/sprites/hooker_firing_gun_uberrecoil.gif)
;)
HAHAHA! That was unexpected! ;D
And sends the message in a funny way.
One part has her knees bending fully backwards! :o