How can I make the room look more in sync with the objects in it?

[rock_chick]

I started a new topic because my old title wasn't relevant to this.
I made some changes to my background after being told it looked too 2D in comparison to the objects within it. I added corners but I'm wondering what else I can do. I'm going to change the door a bit and the room isn't finished.

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8687/watermarkedloungeroom2zd3.png

[Groogokk]

I think it's mainly the colour of the floor that makes the rest of the room look like it doesn't really belong there. You could try this: Instead of the violet, use a colour that is just a little darker than the walls.

Another thing is the walls at the bottom of the picture. They don't seem to fit in perspective-wise.

[Ghost]

I think the problem is that your room uses birds eye perspective while your objects are tiltet.
If you construct a room like this, imagine that all lines must end in one point that is in the very center of the room. The piano should "lean" forward, while the chair and sofa look quite correctly aligned.

[Khris]

Maybe something like this:

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Something like that would work fine, I'm a bit confused by the perspective on that black thing against the left wall though.

[Darth Mandarb]

The couch looks like it's mounted to the wall ... it needs to be moved down to appear as if it's on the floor.

Since you mentioned the door, I won't

Same thing as Progs on the thing on the left.  It appears to be in the wall ...

[rock_chick]

Maybe something like this:

Yeah something like that looks a bit better, I was thinking about something like that but thought it would look too much like there should be a roof.

The black thing is a sideways stereo, yeah things need re-arranging, I was just trying to get the feel for the room design itself at this point. Thanks.

I don't understand what is meant with a problem with the walls at the bottom.

I'll try a few carpet changes but a few shades darker than the walls seems like it'd be just a bit too close, I want a little contrast. I'll try to tone it down.

I'll post another screenshot later.

[rock_chick]

Ok here's my latest update, it's not that great but hopefully it's an improvement. I'm mainly looking for what people think of the change to the background walls? The carpet change is probably not that great but it's something I'll concentrate more on later.
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3788/watermarkedlloungeroom1xd1.png

[Azaron]

Howdy! I think really the only thing that needs to be done is to make the carpet a bit darker and give it a little texture or detail. The objects in the room are so well detailed that everything else looks flat (I know the floor is supposed to be flat ) A solid color without variation just doesn't scream "CARPET!" So here's a very sloppy little edit to show what I mean. It's a little overdone, but it gets the point across I think:

The darker color and a bit of sloppy texture brings everything together a bit better.

[rock_chick]

Yes I see what you're talking about, looks nice. I was thinking about using texture for the carpet but I was concentrating on the other aspects first. Should post a screenshot when I change it, really the room is almost complete, just needs a few more items and a window, plus a change of the door.

[Darth Mandarb]

The biggest problem I see is that the walls just look ... off.

They don't follow any kind of perspective.  Granted this is an odd perspective (though pleasing) but there are still rules to follow.  The room feels too big to me.  There's too much "dead" space.  If you decrease the floor size, you can fix the issue with the walls and make the room feel more "real" I guess.

I did a quick mockup to show what I mean:



I didn't add any of the objects in ... just wanted to show a quick and easy way to achieve that "Zelda" style perspective.  Now ... the objects you've added in your BG don't follow this perspective so will look a bit out of place.  However, if you try a perspective like I used in my first game you could probably place those objects in there with no problem:



It uses a different type of perspective that I don't think we ever came up with and official name for.  I think Andail called it "Parallelometric" or "Planometric"?  Soemthing like that!

I offer up the same advice I give everybody ... just take more time and don't rush yourself!  In the end you'll be happier with the results.

[rock_chick]

Maybe it's me but I don't think the perspective looks that bad now, yes it could look more realistic but I don't feel it looks too weird for the user, it's not meant to be quite a top down view, more a birds eye view on an angle if that makes any sense, not a conventional style but still I can see it working.

How about if I want to have a sort of more eye level view, I realise a direct approach wouldn't work with the objects but is there any way for it to work? These are the type of objects I'm using for the game and the second perspective you proposed feels a bit too cramped, I'm already downsizing many of the objects original size.

[rock_chick]

How about this type of design? Just did a general outline here. Where the perspective is things closer are clearer and look larger in comparison to things further away, as in real life. The background would not be straight lines, instead a slopping scale. The coloured objects are there to show the difference in size and such according to distance. However it is unlike real life because at only one end is it large while it gets rather small at the other regardless of where in the room the player is. Maybe an hourglass figure, where the middle is the widest and the rest changes, maybe this all just looks too weird.
 

Ok, well I've worked a bit on that blueprint and have come up with this somewhat strange looking background, how does it look?

[Hudders]

I disagree with all of this. 

Your biggest problem isn't the perspective, (and in fact I think you could be over-engineering the whole thing guys), the biggest problem is the fact that your furniture is way too small for the room.

[cobra79]

Maybe you are looking for something like this?



Anyway, I think you are needlessly complicating things and I am afraid you are heading in the wrong direction at the moment. What KhrisMUC did fits quite well with what you have so far imho. Darth Mandarb's top down view is also very nice but you would have to redraw your interior.

[rock_chick]

I disagree with all of this. 

Your biggest problem isn't the perspective, (and in fact I think you could be over-engineering the whole thing guys), the biggest problem is the fact that your furniture is way too small for the room.

Well I hadn't finished with furnishing the room the way it was and then all the talk about background perspectives got me concerned. I didn't want to continue with something that looked weird.

Well not everyone's gonna agree on these things. However I've spent ages trying to get this alternative style to work so I still haven't given up on it and I can sort of seeing it taking shape. The original design was clearly flawed(I should have noticed) by the back wall, it looks as flat as the floor while the rest of the room seems to have more depth. So I've just removed the wall entirely and would place the door on the right wall.

Anyway, I think you are needlessly complicating things and I am afraid you are heading in the wrong direction at the moment. What KhrisMUC did fits quite well with what you have so far imho. Darth Mandarb's top down view is also very nice but you would have to redraw your interior.

I just wanted to mostly keep the original background I had but make it look less flat, I thought I'd done that but it still didn't seem to look that good so yes I went off with an entirely different view but I'm not totally sure what is worse about the alternative background itself. However I'd prefer to just make minor adjustments to my old one as it is far easier to work with. I've been downsizing some objects when I should have allowed them to be larger.

I really like the way KhrisMUC did the rework but I'm still trying to work out how to do something similar myself, I generally use GIMP and I'm still struggling at times with it. I can see the previous revision I did to try and emulate it wasn't very successful but I think I'll keep on trying.



Edit by ProgZ:  Please don't double post.

[Darth Mandarb]

The new style is, in my opinion, less usable as a background than your first.  It's too "long" with too much scale change to make it function conveniently as an "in game" background.  The character will be chaning his/her size 90% from the top to bottom of the screen.

I think your first style is more pleasing but I'd strongly suggest cleaning up the perspective a bit.

I'm not trying to be rude (or beat a dead horse) but the perspective, as you have it now, feels sloppy and rushed.  It doesn't appear that you took your time with it.  If you extend the wall lines all the way into the room, they cross uneven and don't match up.  The lines hit the "edge" and then travel left/right unevenly.  The "border" of black appears to cut off the top of the walls.  If you're going for the skewed perspective which is so popular, the even symetry (sp?) of the objects in the room kills the effect.

In the end it's your background to do with as you want ... but you posted in the Critics Lounge ... so I'm critic-ing

[rock_chick]

I'm not trying to be rude (or beat a dead horse) but the perspective, as you have it now, feels sloppy and rushed.  It doesn't appear that you took your time with it.  If you extend the wall lines all the way into the room, they cross uneven and don't match up.  The lines hit the "edge" and then travel left/right unevenly.  The "border" of black appears to cut off the top of the walls.  If you're going for the skewed perspective which is so popular, the even symetry (sp?) of the objects in the room kills the effect.

In the end it's your background to do with as you want ... but you posted in the Critics Lounge ... so I'm critic-ing

It wasn't rushed, I have spent numerous attempts at trying to fix the problem, it's more a lack of design knowledge than anything else because I know what I am looking for but have trouble achieving it.

Anyway I think KhrisMUC rework was the best way I'd ever seen that background and that's what I've been unsuccessfully be trying to achieve. The alternative style was an experiment than anything else but I'm not trying to go for a skewed effect, it's not my style.

I don't mind criticism, it's the whole reason I started the thread but not everyone is going to like every design, I just need to go with what feels right and what is considered acceptable but at least a few people and then I feel it might just work. The problem I had was I wasn't allowing myself to keep a background not everyone posting in this thread was happy about but while I appreciate their opinions I doubt I could ever have everyone like it, it's just something I need to except.

[cobra79]

It might be helpful to explain why KhrisMUC's version works while your second attempt does not. Darth mentioned the wall lines of the borders and that they have to meet but this is just a minor issue imho.
If you look closely the lines of Khris' upper door don't meet either as they should.
The problem is that in order for the viewer to see the inside of all 4 walls, he has to be above the scene.
(You can try it by looking into an open box.) This automatically turns the black edge into the top of the walls and defines their thickness and of course they should be equally thick everywhere. You can't as Darth mentioned just cut the wall for your lower door, because that is not how it works (look at Darth version). Why can Khris cut the black border? By taking out the lowest wall (of which we would see the outside) the black no longer represents the top of the wall and we have moved to the floor level.
Hope it helps. It is all just practice.

[rock_chick]

KhrisMUC was nice enough to allow me to use his rework, I thank him for that. So here is my latest update of the Lounge room. I made the objects a bit larger, removed the stereo,changed the look of the door and switched from carpet to wood flooring. How does it look now? I still plan to add one or two pieces of furniture to the room.