How should I process this background?

[HillBilly]

I've been exploring different ways to shadow backgrounds, but I haven't found one I'm completely pleased with. Here's the result of a quick 2 hours, roughly showing one method I could use (it sucks but it's just an example):



If I spent a few extra hours doing these kind of shadows, it might have looked good, yeah. But what I'm looking for is a way to make the background look less clean and vector like. I'm guessing I'll have to do some work in photoshop, but I really don't know where to start. Any tips would be appreciated.

Here's a shadowless version of the background:

[Ghost]

If you just want to get rid of the clean outlines, you could simply load the pic into PS and then
a) do an overall blur (will probably result in a total mess, though)
b) draw with a soft brush tool of 1 or 2 px size around all edges, using the colour of the shape you're working on.

But to be honest, I quite like the style you're using. The only problems I see with your pic is that the colours are a bit too bright for my taste, and that the shading isn't consistent.
The window is your source of light, so shadows should be cast from the furniture, and the shadows'll move right/front then (or right/back, depending on how you take the perspective.) There should be a shadow cast by the small pillow, too.

Apart from that it's really nice IMO- though it's yet another "warped perspective" location, and I think it would look just the better with straight perspective.

[HillBilly]

If you just want to get rid of the clean outlines, you could simply load the pic into PS and then
a) do an overall blur (will probably result in a total mess, though)
b) draw with a soft brush tool of 1 or 2 px size around all edges, using the colour of the shape you're working on.

First option is out of the question, and the second one just seems like a slower version of it. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

But to be honest, I quite like the style you're using. The only problems I see with your pic is that the colours are a bit too bright for my taste, and that the shading isn't consistent.

I used the palette from Day of the Tentacle, and some darker versions of them. As I said the shading is awful and just an example on how I could do it. So in retrospect I really don't know why I even posted it. Sorry 'bout that.

Apart from that it's really nice IMO- though it's yet another "warped perspective" location, and I think it would look just the better with straight perspective.

I don't find it hideous, but I'd like to explore another type of style. I tried sketching out parts of it in OpenCanvas, but I had some serious issues coloring it. Erasing the color outside those thin, thin outlines and still making it look good seemed close to impossible. I'm guessing it's just a matter of practice, or are there any techniques out there making it easier? I used the airbrush, but maybe there's tools that work better?

I guess crooked/straight perspectives are a matter of taste, but I do find the window to be quite an overkill. Still though, it's more about the color than the composition.

[loominous]

What shading look are you after? DOTT? Do you want it just less clean, or painterly? Would make it easier to give you advice if you could specify a bit more what style you're going for, since different ones use different techniques. Also, what mood are you going for in the room?

Do you have any experience in using photoshop?

I think one of the program's main strengths are the very powerful non destructive layer types/effects, which allow you to experiment freely and quickly with colour and values, which is incredibly useful especially when learning, since finding the right combination right off the bat is nearly impossible, and might take a couple of hundred tweaks.

These techniques may be a bit difficult to grasp at first, but they're really simple and logical. If I knew what style you were after, I could combine an edit with an introduction to them.

[Ghost]

I tried sketching out parts of it in OpenCanvas, but I had some serious issues coloring it. Erasing the color outside those thin, thin outlines and still making it look good seemed close to impossible. I'm guessing it's just a matter of practice, or are there any techniques out there making it easier? I used the airbrush, but maybe there's tools that work better?

All I can say is that I use PS and have the following technique- I too sketch a rough draft and scan it. Then I draw solid shapes with a clean pen tool, no AA. Each major object goes on one seperate layer. And then I refine the objects, using the "draw smooth line in places where it looks okay"-method that is, indeed, much better than an overall Blur filter.

Layers, as loominous said, are your best friends, and allow you to try out many different things- not only colour swatches but also position and shading. Now, your style is very different from mine and I have never used Open Canvas, but I'd suggest *never* to draw outlines and colour on one layer (if you did that) and then erase "spilled" colour. Rather put outlines and a sharp block of colour on sep. layers, and then never look back.

[HillBilly]

What shading look are you after? DOTT? Do you want it just less clean, or painterly? Would make it easier to give you advice if you could specify a bit more what style you're going for, since different ones use different techniques. Also, what mood are you going for in the room?

Sorry, I was being really unclear. I'd like it to have a more painted look, or something similar to that. Just as long it's not static cut-n-clean shadows or gradients. Something like this  or this.   

I did not express this at all in the original image with the "shadows", but I imagine the mood would be an abandoned living room during the day. Regularly being used, but currently not. Most lights are out but it's not completely dark, as the daylight is lighting up the room. I guess that gives it a slight impression of warmth and emptiness.

I don't know if that made much sense, or helped.

Do you have any experience in using photoshop?

Yes. I wouldn't call myself an expert but I've used my fair share and grown comfortable with it.

I think one of the program's main strengths are the very powerful non destructive layer types/effects, which allow you to experiment freely and quickly with colour and values, which is incredibly useful especially when learning, since finding the right combination right off the bat is nearly impossible, and might take a couple of hundred tweaks.

These techniques may be a bit difficult to grasp at first, but they're really simple and logical. If I knew what style you were after, I could combine an edit with an introduction to them.

Thanks. I wouldn't mind redrawing this whole background in photoshop, by the way, if it's better that way.

Now, your style is very different from mine and I have never used Open Canvas, but I'd suggest *never* to draw outlines and colour on one layer (if you did that) and then erase "spilled" colour. Rather put outlines and a sharp block of colour on sep. layers, and then never look back.

Yes, I'd imagine that would look terrible or just being a pain to work with. My biggest problem was removing the color that goes outside the outlines clean cut. So for example the red patch don't slightly blur into the green couch, or the brown frame blends itself with the wall.

[loominous]

Forgot to ask, do you have a tablet?

Without a tablet some techniques are trickier. CMI uses soft shading, modern disney like, with big soft brushes and works ok with a mouse, or so I would imagine. It also features dynamic outlines.

The MI2 screen uses more of a traditional painterly technique with hard brushes and no outlines, and would be trickier to replicate with a mouse.

If you're interested in computer based painting and don't have a tablet, I'd strongly urge you to get whatever tablet you can find. If it's a 5 year old wacom artpad from a flee market doesn't matter, they're all sufficient, though I can't vouch for non wacom tablets (and the larger the better).

[HillBilly]

Yes, I got a wacom.

[Afflict]

I guess the main differences between the clean vector style and the painted bg is the texture that is used while painting. Notice there is no texture in your bg, in regard to the plain colors.

I really like this style I use the same style myself. I would suggest color variances within the same space or textures.

I haven't actually tried it I might later, but logically this is what I think your after.

Keep up the awesome work.

~ Afflict

[Daniel Thomas]

I think its probably too mechanic atm - straight lines, perfect curves etc.

I dont know if thats what you mean, if it is it would probably help if you "hand" drew it, in PS or on paper.

When you want to start color, you said you wanted it to look more painted?
First you should understand forms, IMO.. how light affect them. Then maybe some color theory, shadows dont look good with just a darker version of the base color.

I dont know if you just want some tips for this background, or where to go from here in general. But if you want to step into the world of art, there are great tutorials on the net on color theory, forms(light and shadow tutorials usually cover this) and such.

Hope there was something usefull in there.

[loominous]

Yea, I think it might be best to redo it completely in photoshop.

It could be turned into a painterly style at this point, but very much would have to be modified, since, as zyndikate pointed out, all the lines are simply too perfect at the moment.

Another problem is that the scene has very little direct light, that is, light that goes straight from the light source (the sun in this case) to the object, without bouncing off some other object first. In this particular case, only a bit of the rug would be hit by direct light, that would then bounce around in the room, much like balls being thrown in through the window. This kind of behavior is trickier to deal with than direct light, which might make a scene with more direct light better to start off with, such as a room with artificial light, such as a lamp, or a scene outside in sunlight.

Anyway, if you want to do it in CMI style (with outlines), you need to spend some time on the outlines to make them look good and dynamic. This doesn't mean that they need to look good in the initial stages though - it's usually best to keep the sketches very loose to allow you to focus on getting the composition and design down - and only refine them once everything is set. Once that's done, you can start with value and colour layers beneath the outline layer. I suggest first starting with just values, and apply colour once you're satisfied with the lighting design. The default big round soft brushes will work well for the non outline layers.

If you want to go with MI2 style, you can pay much less attention to the outlines, as these will only serve as guides. I usually start out with the outline layer on full opacity, and reduce it as the value and colour layers beneath get more clear and refined, to finally switch it off when the paint layers can stand on their own. Alternatively, I merge the outline layer with the underlying ones at some point, and just paint over the outlines. This can help bring some artifacts along and definition to the edges. I would suggest using brushes with hard edges for this style. Can use the default round hard ones, or the chalk brush, that looks like a rotated rectangle, but there's also some nice more random brushes further down the default brush list that you could experiment with.

Anyway, if you choose either of these paths, you could post the progress in this or a new thread, and we can help you as you move through the stages. My main advice would be to really keep it loose and experimental, and not pay attention to whether the actual drawings look good, and only judge them by how good a painting they can lead to.

[HillBilly]

That's probably best. I'll do a sketch of the background before anything else, and probably try to color it in some way. I'm low on time today, but I'll see if I can do something by the next couple of days.

[HillBilly]

I got the sketch down, and I'll probably finish it tomorrow in new thread. Thanks for all the pointers this far.