I need a critic and maybe some help (Warning contains doll like nudity)

[seraphimdreamer777]

Her name is Lovey Dovey and she is for a fighting game I'm making using the fight game template. She is an Amazon princess that just moved to a city to get some fighting action and prove to her tribe that she can be both posh and powerful at the same time.

[R4L]

Just a reminder...

You might want to post just the link to the picture, and not your actual myspace. Unless you're comfortable with people being able to view you. Use imageshack, or even the upload space here in the Critic's Lounge.

[Khris]

Or right-click the pic on myspace and select "Copy Image Location". This will copy the pic's URL to the clipboard.

First of all, look at pictures of real women and rework the anatomy. Drawing people is not that easy, but this girl is so off I wouldn't know where to even start with a paintover.

Basic errors: the head is too big, the limbs too fat, the body too thin. The eyes are way too big and too far up.


(click for bigger version)

[seraphimdreamer777]

Basic errors: the head is too big, the limbs too fat, the body too thin. The eyes are way too big and too far up.

I guess I can agree on everything said here. But I'm going for kind of a Japanese anime type look. But I guess I should work a lot on the arms and legs and the body. But as far as the head and eyes go if I want the anime look does it still need some improvements. By the way I'm not too much use to drawing such big sprites and or full size pics with the mouse. But thanks for the input so far.

[Anian]

I guess I can agree on everything said here. But I'm going for kind of a Japanese anime type look. But I guess I should work a lot on the arms and legs and the body. But as far as the head and eyes go if I want the anime look does it still need some improvements. By the way I'm not too much use to drawing such big sprites and or full size pics with the mouse. But thanks for the input so far.

Well, either try drawing on paper then scan it or you can use some pics from the net to see the proportions. Either way learn to see the human body and all it's parts in simple geometric shapes - ovals, rollers, spheres and a cube here and there. Trust me, makes a lot of difference. And to connect them, learn to draw stick figures (which I imagine you probably do as does anybody else that left kindergarden ) cause they're great for deciding on poses and helps with animating.
It's soooo much easier when you use simple forms to make more complicated ones. Cause believe it or not, for drawing in a simpler style, you can go pretty much by basic relation of those shapes - for example the 6, 7 or similar nubmer of head heights is the height of the whole person. You know that on the bottom of the second head height from the top is the position of the nipples. You know that the face is five widths of an eye etc. That too will help you animate because then you know where any part of the body should be.
I'm kind of randomly spitting out nubmers, really depends on the style and overall design, but you get the picture, right?

To start you of, here's a tut from the net:
shows you a quick, basic, clever way of drawing a female body http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/body/stick.htm (lots more on that page)
or maybe more similar to your style http://drawsketch.about.com/od/animemanga/ss/mangabody.htm

If you just follow the basics shown there, it'll look better already. No, you wont draw the example Khris gave, but for more simple anime/manga style and animation, it's fine.
After that it's just practice...yes, the p word. I dread it myself sometimes, but sometimes I really feel like drawing and that's when real progress happens.

p.s. while on paper it's easier to draw a wavy curve than for example a circle, on pc it's the other way around - so using basic shapes will be quite a good thing.

[R4L]

Even anime characters follow the same guidelines in terms of anatomy. The arms are the correct size, the legs are correct...

You just need to work on your anatomy a bit, and check out some other sprites for reference per say. And practice!

EDIT: Anian says it best.

[seraphimdreamer777]

O.K. How does this one look.

[Khris]

That's a huge improvement.
My biggest concern is still the position of the eyes, they need to be further down. Looking at anime girls, they have their eyes in the middle of the head, or further down to achieve that "cute look".

I unwillingly associate the current head with an imbecile because there's no space for the brain.

Make the head a bit smaller, move down the ears & shrink the face, moving down the eyes.

[seraphimdreamer777]

Well I worked my head shrinking voodoo. 
And worked around the face and this is what I got.



Also she has a better more realistic skin tone I think.

[ThreeOhFour]

It's a step in the right direction, but if you're looking for an anime type face I'd go with something along these lines:



Other than that, there some other strange elements - chunky legs, bendy arms and a bottom that sticks out more than it probably should.

[Calin Leafshade]

can bottoms ever stick out more than they should?

She's just a curvy gal.

incidentally why would this thread be unsuitable for those under the age of 13?

[InCreator]

All I can say in pure honesty is:

* Don't go anime style. It instantly makes bad art 500% worse.
* Practice ALOT with lines before drawing. I mean, sketch a body. No clothing, no details, nothing. Just very basic body outlines. Then look at some photos, see what you did wrong. Put photos away and try again. Once you get proportions good, pick different pose and try again...

After 10 poses or so - when you can drawn quite well female at any angle, add hair, eyes etc.

You have to get a feeling and knowledge of what you're doing before doing anything. Otherwise, you waste time -- what's the point of spending an hour on a dress if it's fitted onto something that looks like melt and disfigured barbie doll?

* And still, don't go anime style. Japanese artists are professionals - they can get away with alien eyes and no nose, because everything else is so damn perfect and fluid. You don't.

[Anian]

Well, I even gave you a link to a tutorial, but you somehow missed the point a bit. But yeah, what InC said, practice a bit to get the hang of it. just a bare figure and poses...or maybe a something like Spiderman (cause that's basically a figure with no face but it makes it fun).
Try to fill out a piece of regualr a4 print paper with like 5 sketches of a female body in style you'd like, BUT do it by the book - draw a stick figure, draw shapes, check the relations between bodyparts and face parts etc. Just by doing that you'll see some things look better. After a few pages of doing stuff like that and you'll see much improvment.
And when you do that put them in a drawer, then, after a day or two, look at thsoe papers and you'll see much more things that were wrong. As you get better it will get harder for you to recognize what's wrong with a sketch (though, to be honest, you're kind of far away from that right now and some issuses are really obvious). I know it's hard to draw with a mouse, but you could get a picture or something in the background and use it as a template even.

Redrawing the whole sprite every time you thought you saw what's wrong will just make it a longer process and make it harder to spot when you actually got something right.

This is not meant too be harsh, just advice. 

She is an Amazon princess that just moved to a city to get some fighting action and prove to her tribe that she can be both posh and powerful at the same time.

I'm kind of slow, so I ust noticed this. Isn't that Wonder woman origin story sort of?  

[seraphimdreamer777]

Other than that, there some other strange elements - chunky legs, bendy arms and a bottom that sticks out more than it probably should.

can bottoms ever stick out more than they should?

She's just a curvy gal.

incidentally why would this thread be unsuitable for those under the age of 13?

Well I like the face you made for her Ben.I even saved it just to use as an example on how she will look. But I have to agree with Calin whats wrong with a lady being a bit curvy I wasn't looking for that type of image but I think she looks pretty good for the most part. But maybe I should start from scratch and try to work out a few little kinks in her look but other than that I like her bottom the way it is.

And to Calin about the age issue. I thought because Lovey Dovey is wearing an open front see thru skirt with thigh high leggings and garter belt I thought it may be a little inappropriate for children under 13. Such as like example Ivy from Soul Calibur fame is why the game is rated T.

Well, I even gave you a link to a tutorial, but you somehow missed the point a bit. But yeah, what InC said, practice a bit to get the hang of it. just a bare figure and poses...or maybe a something like Spiderman (cause that's basically a figure with no face but it makes it fun).
Try to fill out a piece of regualr a4 print paper with like 5 sketches of a female body in style you'd like, BUT do it by the book - draw a stick figure, draw shapes, check the relations between bodyparts and face parts etc. Just by doing that you'll see some things look better. After a few pages of doing stuff like that and you'll see much improvment.
And when you do that put them in a drawer, then, after a day or two, look at thsoe papers and you'll see much more things that were wrong. As you get better it will get harder for you to recognize what's wrong with a sketch (though, to be honest, you're kind of far away from that right now and some issuses are really obvious). I know it's hard to draw with a mouse, but you could get a picture or something in the background and use it as a template even.

Redrawing the whole sprite every time you thought you saw what's wrong will just make it a longer process and make it harder to spot when you actually got something right.

This is not meant too be harsh, just advice.  Smiley

Quote from: seraphimdreamer777 on 28 Jan 2010, 22:22
She is an Amazon princess that just moved to a city to get some fighting action and prove to her tribe that she can be both posh and powerful at the same time.
I'm kind of slow, so I ust noticed this. Isn't that Wonder woman origin story sort of?  Grin

Sorry I didn't quit get what it was at first you were saying or showing me. I'm gonna look over her bit by bit using the guidelines you suggested and see if I get better Other than that as I said earlier the bottom is fine as is.

Oh by the way I didn't notice the similarities  but I don't recall Wonder Woman entering an all girl fighting tournament. 

[ThreeOhFour]

You may like her bottom but the way her thigh is positioned makes it look really rather odd to me - the fact that it sticks out is probably just as much a result of the way you have drawn her thigh. If you like her the way she is that's fine as well - I was merely pointing out what seemed odd to me.

Curvy ladies are excellent. Wonky ones are not.

Also, I just noticed, the skirt seems to be at a different direction to the rest of the image - it is front on whilst the rest of her is at an angle.

[seraphimdreamer777]

Thanks Ben but I only meant that I was keeping the cursiveness. As for the skirt issue I will correct that when I redo her clothes.  Oh and I slightly modified the face that you made where she is now wearing make up. Blue eyeliner and pink lipstick.

By the way anian  I went ahead and took your advice thanks for the tutorial. What I did is use shapes and put them together piece by piece. Also I used the curved line tool in ms paint.

  I did start off using a stick figures cause the fighting game template I'm using starts off as just two stick figures as characters so I'm also at odds with the size issue. Meaning that I can't make her two small or there will be issues with where the punches hit. I will update this thread also as I create more characters. Thanks for the help so far. Y'all have been very helpful.

[Sythe]

Thanks Ben but I only meant that I was keeping the cursiveness. As for the skirt issue I will correct that when I redo her clothes.  Oh and I slightly modified the face that you made where she is now wearing make up. Blue eyeliner and pink lipstick.

Not sure exactly what you're aiming for, but this is along the lines of how I'd draw her:



One of the issues I find I have with drawing women is I tend to accentuate the curves far far too much. (Male brain bias, of course.) If you look at a real woman for what she really is -- the flesh and bone -- you will notice that her curves are accented through their subtly and continuity and only very rarely through any heavy divergence from a normal form.

[seraphimdreamer777]

Aright now what I'm dealing with for one.
Her feat are kind elevated in my picture because she is going to be in high heels as pictured above. So for what I'm going for with the feat is obvious.

But like you sythe and the others have said I guess I still have to work on her curves.

Am I right or am I wrong. Making her evenly proportioned.

Of course the end result Will be similar to any other fight game out there. I'm going to have her with a battle pose and she will have punch frames and kick frames. Which will be a bit harder unless I could figure out an easy way to make her 3d but still with the anime style look. But I've tried the 3d programs ags has plugins and modules for and they were difficult to use for me at least.

But getting back on topic I like the way you drew her but of course like I said I'm kind of going for her fighting pose or stance to begin with. Then I'm going to try to animate her. Again to all who have helped me so far thanks.

Edit: I took a closer look at yours sythe and corrected a few issues with mine around the torso area.

[Brentimous]

Her arms look like Popeye's after eating a can of spinach. I think everything could be slendered down a notch. Unless you're going for a big muscled look, in which case going all out and copying the Popeye look might make for an interesting result. I'd personally google images of Wonder Woman. Not for reference on how a muscled female should look, just for fun on a lonely Saturday night.

Slenderized version that's probably a bit too anorexic.

[Sythe]

But getting back on topic I like the way you drew her but of course like I said I'm kind of going for her fighting pose or stance to begin with. Then I'm going to try to animate her. Again to all who have helped me so far thanks.

Well fighting is all about balance, and balance is all about the positioning of your feet.

I suggest you don't worry too much about the high heels until you have the basic bone structure down. Effectively the heels should make the legs appear slightly longer, and will make the shin to ankle angles more extreme.


Only a very rough copy, but you might be after something more like this: