I need help with my first background, i'm stuck!

updownleftright · Mon 02/04/2007 23:27:22

Hi guys, me again

The comments and crits I got with the first character the other day really helped, so I think I should open up my first AGS background to the same sort of scrutiny, and see what you lot can suggest. I've run into a bit of a block now on this, and can't see how to progress it to the next level. Ideas?

It's supposed to be an undergound room, concrete and steel framed, with sparse, functional decor. It's a kind of monitoring station where a guy lives and works.

I want to add a few more personal touches to show someone has lived here, posters, books, piles of crap on the floor and stuff like that, and i've got a fair bit of cleaning up and optimising of colors to do, but i'm more concerned with the overal tone and lighting of the scene right now, i'm not sure i've got it right.

Layabout · Mon 02/04/2007 23:48:58

Some scattered clothes perhaps. the occupant doesn't seem to have a place to put clothes or clean himself... or take a poo.

Darth Mandarb · Tue 03/04/2007 01:13:35

This room feels about twice as big as it needs to be.

I like it ... but it lacks "over-laps" if you know what I mean? There's a term for it ... but it's escaping me.

I think it's a good start! Keep at it!

R4L · Tue 03/04/2007 01:25:11

Wow, the style is similar to Another World. I agree with Layabout, the room needs some minor details like that.

Evil · Tue 03/04/2007 04:24:28

I think after other objects are added, it'll look less big. I love the way it's colored, the style is great, but the acutual colors could use some work. The lighting color feels wrong.

Also, the left side of the "light board" is too high. It maybe be correct, but it looks weird.

joelphilippage · Tue 03/04/2007 13:03:03

Wow great for a first background, but perhaps you should draw it in 2 point perspective. I always find this more interesting to look at.

gASK · Tue 03/04/2007 14:54:00

Nice background, I love this style

Now some critics:

The blueish shadows are too "blueish" for my eyes.
The shadow in lower left close corner looks weird - It is too dark or the table is too light.
Empty room - add some clothes, maybe some food and stuff, books on the floor. Maybe a sink or something like that.

Buckethead · Tue 03/04/2007 14:57:23

the light from the lamps looks kinda strange to me

markbilly · Tue 03/04/2007 17:39:58

The style is spot-on. But maybe less contrast between the shades of colour?

updownleftright · Tue 03/04/2007 22:48:53

Am I going in the right direction with this? I tried to improve the look of the lighting, but it's changed to tone of the whole piece, and I can't decide if it's better or worse!

Still, i'm learning loads as I go, so it's all good I suppose!

I think i'm gonna stop messing with the colors for a while now and add the extra detail that everyone has suggested.

deadsuperhero · Tue 03/04/2007 22:53:59

I think it looks great, but I suggest maybe giving it more of a claustrophobic feel. Make the room smaller, cramped, uncomfortable.

The Ivy · Tue 03/04/2007 23:05:21

If the character is kind of a slob you could always have dirty dishes stacked up or an overflowing laundry hamper. I actually just looked around my own room.

Darth Mandarb · Wed 04/04/2007 00:40:41

What Alliance said is what I was referring to ...

here is a VERY quick paint-over to show what I mean:

Sparky · Wed 04/04/2007 02:59:30

Great style, I really like the sharp edged, slightly irregular lighting.

The execution is excellent, there are many well drawn details. I love the way you drew the monitor, plant, lights and ladder.

Most of my comments are about the early planning stages- I know it would probably take the same amount of time to draw a new background using these suggestions as it would to incorporate them into the current picture. So don't expect these to make it into the next edit or anything...

I think the overall composition could have used a little work before you charged in and started working. As joelphilippage said, less regular camera placement can add a lot to an image. It can be really powerful to angle the camera toward an object of interest or tilt it down slightly so the floor takes up more screen space than the ceiling. You're a great artist, I'd love to see how you handle more complex perspective.

Your lighting is so compelling, I'd love to see more variations in intensity. Maybe a dark corner, a burnt out or differently colored lightbulb, a pool of light from a floor lamp, or a soft glow from the monitor would be nice.

I like Darth Mandarb's foreground object idea in his edit. It might be nice to frame the image a little with pipes, an electrical box or something similar. And, as has been said, more clutter would be fun.

updownleftright · Wed 04/04/2007 09:55:58

I'm not sure about the two point perspective thing, maybe I should give it a go and see first, but i've been trying to base this background off reference pieces from old Lucasarts games, and most of them seem to be in 1 point perspective, so I went with that.

I like the paintover from Darth Mandarb, it does help it feel more confined. I'd already experimented with foreground silhouettes, and I think i'll incorporate somehting like that into the final piece.

I think part of my problem with this piece is that I have no design brief, I kind of just waded in and started painting without any planning (as usual with me!). I really should sit down and get a design document done for the game i'm planning, but i'm enjoying the pixel pushing so much the the moment I can't bear to not be in front of photoshop!

Sparky · Wed 04/04/2007 21:19:54

Quote from: updownleftright on Wed 04/04/2007 09:55:58
I'm not sure about the two point perspective thing, maybe I should give it a go and see first, but i've been trying to base this background off reference pieces from old Lucasarts games, and most of them seem to be in 1 point perspective, so I went with that.

Mildly off topic, yet hopefully relevant: Just yesterday I was sitting down and playing Monkey Island 2. I noticed just what you pointed out; I was surprised to see so many rooms with "one point" layouts. I think that's largely true of most older adventure games. I totally respect the direction you took. It's obvious you made a conscious decision to use that perspective, and you've got good reasons for it. I can't wait to see the next edit, with foreground objects...

Quote from: updownleftright on Wed 04/04/2007 09:55:58I think part of my problem with this piece is that I have no design brief, I kind of just waded in and started painting without any planning (as usual with me!). I really should sit down and get a design document done for the game i'm planning, but i'm enjoying the pixel pushing so much the the moment I can't bear to not be in front of photoshop!

Yeah, I love the execution end of business too! I love getting my hands dirty, but I don't have a tendency to plan very well. I recently started making myself do rough sketches before starting a background, and it's helped me a lot. It only takes a few minutes.

updownleftright · Wed 04/04/2007 22:45:50

Well, I spent an hour tonight messing with 2 point perspective scenes, and I must say, Sparky is right. They just don't feel 'right' for the style of game I have in my head. They look ok, but it's not what I see when I close my eyes and imagie playing the finished thing. With that said, I think i'm going to stick to slightly more boring, but oh so lovingly retro 1 point perspective

Here's tonights somewhat underwheming update, including some of the above suggestions and a few ideas of my own i had knocking around:

I think i'm going to leave this now and move on to a second scene, maybe an outdoors one, total change of pace. I can always come back and finish this off later if I learn any new tricks as I go.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice on my first BG, it's much appreciated! I'll keep you updated as my skills progress (assuming they do!).

Sparky · Thu 05/04/2007 01:48:22

I love it! I literally gasped in surprise when I saw that last edit. That crack on the left wall is lovely. This is going into a finished game, right? If you make a game with this and everything else is as good as this art, people will line up for miles to play it.

The one thing I don't like is the pattern shading on the telephone and calendar. Dithering is nice sometimes, but I feel that in this case it makes the objects feel flat. Some shaped shading, even just two colors, would work better in my opinion. But... you're right, it's time to move on. Again, really nice work.

Captain Lexington · Thu 05/04/2007 02:00:11

Sparky, the dithering on the calendar and the phone are design elements--the day boxes and touch tones, respectively. You can tell on the calendar because a couple of the days are red.

Sparky · Thu 05/04/2007 02:27:14

Orator:
Understood! I do like details, but sometimes I think it's best to combine teeny elements (like calendar cells) into a larger mass and draw that instead. Anyway that's where I'm coming from.