Improving the character design

tinyhippo · Tue 16/04/2013 12:56:51

Hi guys!

We're currently making a character model, here are the early model pics:

Anything we can improve on? I, personally, don't really like his nose on the side view and his face for 3/4 is just, eh, ~~smashed with a frying pan~~ weird.

NickyNyce · Tue 16/04/2013 13:14:42

I would make his face a little bit wider in the 3/4 view, he needs a bigger jaw to match the side view.

The side views hair seems off compared to the 3/4 views (which I really like).

All in all, the character looks great, very nice. As for pixel noses, they're pretty tough to pull off, but a pixel here and a pixel there should cure any problems you have with this guy.

Armageddon · Wed 17/04/2013 00:43:42

For starters you could post them as .pngs.

tinyhippo · Wed 17/04/2013 05:56:29

Here are some reworked gif's (thanks for the suggestion, NickyNyce), hope they'll do instead:

[imgzoom]http://s23.postimg.org/kb1a8zoqv/image.gif[/imgzoom]

[imgzoom]http://s23.postimg.org/4e2ic9wcn/image.gif[/imgzoom]

[imgzoom]http://s23.postimg.org/xui4ep2pz/image.gif[/imgzoom]

Armageddon · Wed 17/04/2013 06:01:37

He looks very wide and buff in the front shot, his head changes sizes in the last two shots and his face is totally flat still.

tinyhippo · Wed 17/04/2013 06:15:56

Quote from: Armageddon on Wed 17/04/2013 06:01:37
He looks very wide and buff in the front shot, his head changes sizes in the last two shots and his face is totally flat still.

I've told our artist, thanks for your tips.

However, personally, I don't agree that his front shot doesn't correspond with the other two.

frenzykitty · Wed 17/04/2013 07:59:41

I'm no expert, but I think they look really nice

cat · Wed 17/04/2013 08:46:52

Is he supposed to be really dirty in the front view but clean in the 3/4 view? The nose still doesn't look right in the side view.

I like the 3/4 view best, regarding shape, lineart and shading.

dactylopus · Wed 17/04/2013 08:54:56

The third (3/4) lacks the shading that the others have, but is the best looking sprite.

The first looks good, but the shoulders / upper arms look a bit bulkier than in the other poses, where they looks more natural. I'll admit it does look better against a background than alone.

The side view doesn't really have a nose to speak of.

Aside from these few minor critiques, I think they look fantastic.

tinyhippo · Wed 17/04/2013 09:16:52

Quote from: cat on Wed 17/04/2013 08:46:52
Is he supposed to be really dirty in the front view but clean in the 3/4 view? The nose still doesn't look right in the side view.

I like the 3/4 view best, regarding shape, lineart and shading.

He will be dirty in every view, those aren't final of course.

If only you knew how he'd look like towards the end.

Quote from: dactylopus on Wed 17/04/2013 08:54:56
The side view doesn't really have a nose to speak of.

I've been poking our artist over and over about his nose on the side view, but he says he can't really figure a proper way to redraw the nose as there aren't many pixels to play with (yeah, speaking of space quest or larry, yep). He said he'll try though.

And thanks everyone, we appreciate all of your critiques.

Anian · Wed 17/04/2013 10:52:40

How about this:
[imgzoom]http://i.imgur.com/ku48Rgi.png[/imgzoom]

Added nose, fix the hair to match in all views, narrower face in front view, moved head back in side view, stretched the jaw and moved the eye more to the right in 3/4 view. Moved some shadows (like under the jaw in 3/4 view), hope for the better.

The 3/4 view face was just too narrow and eyes to together. Also he was missing eyebrows. Nose in side view is hard, but when I moved his head back, a 1 pixel nose doesn't look that bad.
As a tip, it's good idea to keep consistent outlines, don't put them on some edges of the sprite, then don't do at other places. When between objects (as in when it's not an edge of the sprite but between clothes and skin etc.) you can choose not to use them, because number of pixels is limited and you don't need the outline as much as you do to separate the sprite from the background.

tinyhippo · Wed 17/04/2013 11:15:24

Wow, thanks a lot. Very nice work.

We'll adopt everything you did (if you don't mind) except the 3/4 nose as it does make the character somewhat, eh, anime-pitiful-ish, won't describe it right.

Anian · Wed 17/04/2013 11:47:37

Quote from: tinyhippo on Wed 17/04/2013 11:15:24
We'll adopt everything you did (if you don't mind) except the 3/4 nose as it does make the character somewhat, eh, anime-pitiful-ish, won't describe it right.

Sure, no problem, I just slightly pushed things around.
And yes, might be too animeish, you need to work that one out though. Maybe add 2-3 pixels of the outline skin tone (experiment) to indicate the nose.

Chicky · Thu 18/04/2013 21:56:06

[imgzoom]http://i.imgur.com/nK0DiGi.png[/imgzoom]

I had a go at more cartoony approach to the face, I didn't touch your colours (thinking now that the skin is a little dark) but pushed some pixels around. Not sure if it's any help.

Snarky · Thu 18/04/2013 22:35:11

I hope ProgZmax won't mind if I post an old sprite sheet of his (I think it might be a paintover), but since you've been concerned about getting enough facial detail/expressiveness I thought it might be an interesting thing to look at:

[IMGzoom]http://i.imgur.com/eXu5Bpi.gif[/IMGzoom]

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Fri 19/04/2013 10:22:43

Wow, that is some old stuff right there!

Anyway, the main problem you need to work on is visual consistency between angles. Right now the shape of the head does not maintain size between angles and therefore is throwing everything else off. I've made an edit showing the original with horizontal lines to point out alignment and then an edit below.

1. Adjusted shape of face in angled and right pose to match the size of the downward version (this included bringing down the jaw and eyes).
2. Changed the highlight of the hair so it was easier to see. Details are only useful if people can see them.
3. Added a nose and some very basic face shadowing.
4. Adjusted shape of hair in angled and right poses.

[imgzoom]http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/facex_zps64369116.gif[/imgzoom]

The main thing to pay attention to is consistency, though anatomy is important too and you want the eyes to be at least one full eye apart.

tinyhippo · Fri 19/04/2013 12:58:47

Quote from: Chicky on Thu 18/04/2013 21:56:06
I had a go at more cartoony approach to the face, I didn't touch your colours (thinking now that the skin is a little dark) but pushed some pixels around. Not sure if it's any help.

Thanks, but that is quite the opposite of what we are looking for our character.

Quote from: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Fri 19/04/2013 10:22:43
Wow, that is some old stuff right there!

Anyway, the main problem you need to work on is visual consistency between angles. Right now the shape of the head does not maintain size between angles and therefore is throwing everything else off. I've made an edit showing the original with horizontal lines to point out alignment and then an edit below.

1. Adjusted shape of face in angled and right pose to match the size of the downward version (this included bringing down the jaw and eyes).
2. Changed the highlight of the hair so it was easier to see. Details are only useful if people can see them.
3. Added a nose and some very basic face shadowing.
4. Adjusted shape of hair in angled and right poses.

[imgzoom]http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/facex_zps64369116.gif[/imgzoom]

The main thing to pay attention to is consistency, though anatomy is important too and you want the eyes to be at least one full eye apart.

That is quite impressive. Thanks a lot! I linked this thread to our artist, he seems to have taken ahold of what you said/changed.

tinyhippo · Sun 05/05/2013 18:49:37

[imgzoom]http://cs521417.vk.me/u176513067/doc/da7708b0f74f/animatsia_-geroy-idet-vpered-222.gif[/imgzoom]

Here's a walkcycle made for this character. Anything wrong with it?

waheela · Sun 05/05/2013 19:10:19

That's a pretty good start for the walk cycle. A couple of thoughts though...

-Head and shoulders should bob up and down when walking. After a step's been taken and both feet are more or less on the ground, the head and shoulders are lower.
-Legs should extend forward, not out horizontally. Right now, the character is doing a little bit of a duck walk.

Here's a really good reference video that may help you out:

[embed=425,349]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vq9A5FD8G5w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/embed]

Snarky · Sun 05/05/2013 22:26:25

Quote from: waheela on Sun 05/05/2013 19:10:19
-Head and shoulders should bob up and down when walking. After a step's been taken and both feet are more or less on the ground, the head and shoulders are lower.

Just a point I want to emphasize, since I see a lot of people going wrong: it's not just the head and shoulders that bob up and down, it's the whole body. As waheela says, it has to do with the legs being more or less straight and on the ground at different points of the walkcycle (when your legs are bent or extended in front and back, you're lower; when one leg is straight and under your body, you're higher, and depending on how you walk you might get a little higher still as you lift your heel right afterwards), and that transmits all the way up to the head. So really, the bobbing needs to start from the hips, where the legs connect to the spine and torso.