I can't stop fiddling about with this one. Should I stop now? Is there anything that should be improved. Is it a bit too orange?
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/OtherWitchHouse.png)
Perhaps the outlines of the tree's roots are a bit too strong. Othwerwise it just looks great and it's not too orange. I would consider this finished.
But, hey, I'm always fiddling about my backgrounds too and have to force myself to stop at some point.
Looks great, but I have a couple of things, first, the bottom left hand corner has a large, plain rock which is a bit of an eyesore. Secondly, the stairs to the house look odd, but I can't put my finger on why though.
DanielH has good points. You could try adding one or two rocks to bottom left corner and see how it looks. Stairs do look odd and I think there is a problem with perspective there.
yes, the stairs are basically leaning downwards, so on a rainy day you'd probably slip and fall to your knees.
Also, the tree seems to be the exact same colous with the road, which is a bit strange, something you might consider changing.
It's finished... after about 50% contrast increase or even better, manual contrasting. If forest is so dark that you can see light as rays, Overall ambient light seems downright wrong. Shadows should be much, much darker.
Besides this, excellent work. I'm jealous, almost.
Quote from: InCreator on Wed 23/07/2008 15:04:22
If forest is so dark that you can see light as rays, Overall ambient light seems downright wrong. Shadows should be much, much darker.
True, but S has to decide if he wants to make it realistic or just good-looking. If prefer the second choice.
I didn't notice the wrong perpective of the stairs but it's obvious. I made some crappy lines to show what's wrong with the perspective (red) and how it roughly should be (yellow). Don't mind the red line to the left, it's just there to be compare to the stairs.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/witch_stairs.png)
The branches of the trees look bit too messy I think. Too much random lines or something.
And the wooden planks below and above the big window should have bit darker outlines imho.
Other than that looks damn good to me.
I'd move the rock over a bit to the right. Being right on that angle does make it an eyesore. Smaller rocks around it will help too. Steps need some help like Matti pointed out.
I think the contrasting outlines look neat. A clean cartoony style. I think that if you added more cast shadows around the brick wall, the roots, and some twigs and things, it'll help make the outlines less bold. Areas under the awning and the cast leaves on the house look good, but areas around the downspout, the door and the roof facing us are lacking some shadows.
Evil mentioned the main thing I'd change, and that's the big rock in the bottom left hand corner. The top right edge follows almost the exact edge of the path, creating a tangent line with it. Moving either to the right or the left should help it stand out and give that part of the image more depth. Also, check the shading on the right edge of the rock - you've left a line of the lighter grey there and it appears to be lit from the side as well as the top.
Perhaps you could consider some shadows under the tree root on the path to help differentiate between the two a little clearer.
Other than these points I think it is well done.
Thanks for all your advice. It is fascinating (and somewhat depressing) to realise how blind you become to your own stuff. What bugs me is that I saw both the problem with the stairs (as I drew them in the original pencil sketch) and the left-hand corner rock, but I just could not bring myself to take action. It is a whole lot better now, I think.
Here's what I did:
1. Coloured in some details I had forgot (mushroom above and behind the afore-mentioned rocks)
2. Added a second rock and removed the tangent problem. The outline still sort of follows the path, but not exactly.
3. Fixed the stairs.
4. Darkened the whole image, adding more shadows, including some cast shadows. (on the pipe along the wall, on the roots of the big tree, next to the stone fence, on the stairs, etc.)
5. Removed some squiggly lines from among the leafwork (compare the area behind the beams).
Won't do:
1. Will not do anything more about the roof.
2. Will not untangle the "random" lines of the leafwork. Too much damn hard work. Branches are a pain in the neck to draw, especially en masse.
Here it is, now:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/OtherWitchHouse2.png)
Quote from: S on Wed 23/07/2008 12:37:13
Is there anything that should be improved?
I guess it depends on what you're aiming for. Right now it's pretty hard to tell what your aim is in terms of mood/style/etc.
A line or two about your intentions would be helpful.
Quote from: loominous on Thu 24/07/2008 13:54:36
Quote from: S on Wed 23/07/2008 12:37:13
Is there anything that should be improved?
I guess it depends on what you're aiming for. Right now it's pretty hard to tell what your aim is in terms of mood/style/etc.
A line or two about your intentions would be helpful.
Something like a fairy tale for adults. Not in the pornographic sense, but you know.
Everything in your picture has this almost grainy texture (from the original sketch, or from photoshop touch ups later on), except for that brick wall. The wall looks good the way it is... but it doesn't really match the rest of your background. Looks almost flat like it's wallpaper.
Other than that, the roofs angle was a little odd. Looks like the house is really narrow (from front to back). But you already mentioned you won't be touching the roof at all.
I've always enjoyed your style and it's always nice to see more of your work.
RT, now that you mention it, it does look a little... plasticky. I'll get on it. Thanks.
About the angle of the roof - I imagined that it goes a little something like this:
_____
/ \
...so the house won't be that narrow. There will be another room where this is seen from another angle.
On the other hand, a roof like that wouldn't really make sense, since the main idea of the V form is to get the rain water to fall off fromt he sides. I'd assume you'd want to do something like this one:
(http://www.asuntomessuopas.fi/files/946-matilda.jpg)
sorry, couldn't find a better image
I hate to admit it, but you guys are right. I'll need to redesign this house.
If you are going for a cartoony kind of look, the house is fine.
I really like the extreme roof, even if it is impractical... :)
Quote from: S on Fri 25/07/2008 09:29:39
I hate to admit it, but you guys are right. I'll need to redesign this house.
well, All you'd probably need to do with the roof would be something like this (a quick paint edit)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/OtherWitchHouse32365.PNG)
Also, if you're going to use it as a bg, you might want to take away the extre 13 pixels off of the height.
I've fixed the roof now. It looks a bit like your suggestion, Tuomas, although it goes a bit further to the left.
I always save cropping for last, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.
I regard it as finished now. You'll get to see it later. At some point I need to (try to) reqruit people who can do what I cannot. My programming skills are basic, and I could use some help with animations.
When I have a number of nice screenies ready I will call out.
Later, and thanks for all your helpful suggestions.
Woah Woah! Slow down. You did what to your roof to fix it?
I made a quick edit. This is what 'I' would do to make that roof and house look better.
(http://www.bryvis.com/images/other/agsf/s_house.png)
As you can see I decreased the overall slope of the roof, and squeezed as many shingles as I could so it would give the appearance of length. More length = a wider house.
But the you realise the roof is still as high as the one on the liitle roof that stands out fromt he wall, and that's not very tall, so even though the other would be longer, it seems exactly the same, and at least my eye will immediately make is just as tall and long as the one on the porch thing system there,
This house is actually quite big. I had to redo my overall plan for it, so now I'm working on a new sketch of the whole house seen from a different angle.
This is what it looks like now.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/OtherWitchHouse3.png)
A lump of orange play-doh or a convincing-looking roof? I'm not sure myself, so I'll let it rest for a bit while I work on other things.
Quote from: Tuomas on Wed 30/07/2008 09:52:16
But the you realise the roof is still as high as the one on the liitle roof that stands out fromt he wall, and that's not very tall, so even though the other would be longer, it seems exactly the same, and at least my eye will immediately make is just as tall and long as the one on the porch thing system there,
I haven't a clue what you're talking about here.
(http://www.bryvis.com/images/other/agsf/s_roofd.png)
Just because one roof is as high, doesn't mean they both need the same pitch.
The camera is on the ground, so the one roof should be almost non-visible. Therefor making it appear tighter (with the shingles).
The only thing on S's photo that I can see distorting that angle would be the eaves on the one side.
I don't know if it needs to be as dramatic as I've drawn the red lines there, but something needs to be done. It's the same angle as the top of the roof, and that's not right.
Actually, now that you mention it, this drawing is basically flawed, perspectivally speaking.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/OtherWitchHouseFlwed.png)
The red lines indicate what it would have to look like to make sense. The right-hand vanishing point is a bit too extreme (and not very realistic) and has given me a world of problems. You live, you learn.
So: I'm scrapping this one - the list of problems has become too long.
I might keep the big tree, though. I really like the way it kinda looks like a hand (thumb in front)
Why don't you just scrub out the house and rebuild it on that background (if you're convinced that the house is beyond repair)?
Just make sure you keep the new house on a layer of it's own so you can easily draw whatever part of the background, that would now be an erased hole.
I probably wouldn't have as many steps on the next background. Steps are always a pain to animate the character walking up. And they might make things awkward if the ego is knocking on the door and waiting for someone to answer (but then again, this is an adventure game.. who knocks on doors? lol).
Quote from: S on Thu 31/07/2008 15:36:43
So: I'm scrapping this one - the list of problems has become too long.
:o What?
Do you really care about a 100 % correct perspective so much? I'd keep it, it would hardly bother anyone playing the game, not even those who'd notice that the perspective is not quite correct...
Quote from: matti on Thu 31/07/2008 15:52:10
Quote from: S on Thu 31/07/2008 15:36:43
So: I'm scrapping this one - the list of problems has become too long.
:o What?
Do you really care about a 100 % correct perspective so much? I'd keep it, it would hardly bother anyone playing the game, not even those who'd notice that the perspective is not quite correct...
I've changed my mind about how the whole screen ought to work. I'm making it a scroller now, at least twice as wide. This was a useful learning experience, but it has to go.
In order to salvage bits from this screen I will need to print them and incorporate them into new drawings - cutting and pasting by hand. I might not bother and start from scratch instead.
I've trashed lots of images that took me days to draw. It's never wasted time, because you're learning valuable lessons. I really like your attention to detail. The shadows of the trees on the roof, for example. Nice work!
--Erwin
Its defo not finished. The first thing that strikes me is the sunrays and lack of highlights. there are no highlights at all, in fact... Just look at where the rays are going and add sharp highlights to these places, right now it looks dull and lacks point of interest.
Quote from: radiowaves on Sat 09/08/2008 12:41:36
Its defo not finished. The first thing that strikes me is the sunrays and lack of highlights. there are no highlights at all, in fact... Just look at where the rays are going and add sharp highlights to these places, right now it looks dull and lacks point of interest.
Well, as I said above I'm scrapping this image. However, I'd like to see how you would go about highlighting this scene. Feel free to paint over.
Erwin_Br: I don't ususally trash images that I've put a lot of work into, but I agree with you: you live, you make mistakes, you learn.
Your perspective sketch assumes that a lot of different lines are parallel. This is not at all a necessary assumption. (For instance, there's no reason why the low stone wall around the property has to be perfectly parallel to the side of the house.) I actually think it looks less natural for everything to line up (even the grass by the path) than to have things pointing in different directions.
Given your somewhat loose style and the sagging state of the house, I don't think there's anything wrong with the perspective, and you could should just leave it as it is. I think the new roof looks great.
Quote from: Snarky on Sat 09/08/2008 16:33:09
Your perspective sketch assumes that a lot of different lines are parallel. This is not at all a necessary assumption. (For instance, there's no reason why the low stone wall around the property has to be perfectly parallel to the side of the house.) I actually think it looks less natural for everything to line up (even the grass by the path) than to have things pointing in different directions.
Given your somewhat loose style and the sagging state of the house, I don't think there's anything wrong with the perspective, and you could should just leave it as it is. I think the new roof looks great.
Hmmm... positivie feedback... interesting... I might just change my mind again. We'll see. I'll put this one aside and work on some other backgrounds for a while. If I can get the time. I'm teaching at university starting next week, so I'll be busy as hell.
I dont think perspective is of an importance, if you get down a good composition that wont be a problem(anyone played monkey island3? or Day of the tentacle?), even if you're going for "dark comedy" I think its ok
For me an issue is where you cut the picture, the door got cut in the middle. While I worked on the edit I felt I just wanted the side of the house to show also, to get some sense of how big it is. You can add some variation to the stone-wall and grass/road edge too. Same with the foreground element, make it uneven(I failed at this).
Heres a rough edit:
(http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/5325/otherwitchhouse3editcy6.png)
I hope it helps some
Z: Haha! I like it! Although the house looks completely wrong! (But you could not possibly know what I had in mind and what I had sketched elsewhere). Actually, due to bad (or no) planning there won't be room for the architecture that I've sketched out and planned even if I make the screen wider. So I need to make it all anew, even though I'm tempted not to.
Lets not discuss this one any more now, it's gotten way more attention than it deserves...
;)