is my machine too hard?

Goldmund · Sun 16/10/2005 00:22:18

Hello,

inspired by Garage Gothic's suggestion on how Terranrich could improve one of the puzzles in his game (sorry, I haven't played it, so I'm unsure of the details) I've added a signal-scrambler-sortish kind of machine to my game.

Now, I don't have a perfect ear, but I've dealt with music ocassionally, so I'm unsure how difficult this puzzle is to an un-musical person.

Could you give me some of your time and check how this small machine works for you? And maybe you have some suggestions how to improve it?

link: http://www.geocities.com/hermann_rottweiler/machine.zip
(right-click, save target as)

Thanks in advance!

Stefano · Sun 16/10/2005 00:58:17

I'm a good example of a non-musical person and I could get it right with a couple of tries. It's perfectly solvable.

Nikolas · Sun 16/10/2005 00:59:45

I'm not sute, how suitable I am to tell you, since I'm a composer but:

Clever idea, very well!

A bit annoying, because of the frequences and maybe, not really a puzzle by itself. If of course the player has to go through a lot to get the scrambler, then yes, but on it's own it seems a little bit annoying.

I didn't find it difficult.

But I imagine that tone deaf people will have problems...

Anyway, lower the volume a bit, and maybe change octave (lower), so that it won't be so annoying.

PS. It wasn't really for me cause I spent very little time dealing with it, but someone who will spend more than 2 minutes, might be irritated...

PS2. Very nice BG, as well as the machine. I don't remember if the buttons, once pressed where shown as pressed or not.

Hope this was helpfull...

Paper Carnival · Sun 16/10/2005 01:09:09

I'm not sure either, since I've been into music for a while... I didn't make any mistakes.

Quintaros · Sun 16/10/2005 02:00:55

I'm about as tone death as they come and I was able to solve this. It didn't seem to be about matching a tone so much as making two overlapping sounds merge into one. Seems like a puzzle that anyone could solve by trial and error if neccessary.

Nice and innovative.

TheYak · Sun 16/10/2005 03:34:24

I've got zero musical/tone ability and had no failures. The time between hearing the tone and matching it to the frequency was long enough for me though, that the sound made me go a little crazy. It would've been less annoying if both tones were lesser in tempo.

Nacho · Sun 16/10/2005 11:55:47

The problem I had is that when you click on "detect", as far as I tried, there is no possible way to turn off the sound emmited by the lock, so it is difficult to match the frequencies using your ear. The two sound mix and it is difficult to know which is which.

Maybe there is a way to turn (edit) OFF the emmission of the locker that I haven't find it?

Andail · Sun 16/10/2005 13:33:24

Rejoice, Goldmund has dignified the forum with his presence!

I'd say the puzzle is far too easy, as you hear the two signals simultaneously. To make some sort of active listening skills involved, have the tones sound separately. To make it substantially harder:

* You press "detect", which gives you a series of (let's say three) sound bites of different frequencies
* You have a second button, which is "tune" or "try" or whatever, which lets you try out tones. + and - adjust this tone.
* When you think you have the first tone in the sequence, you hit "send". Then you continue with trying to hit the second one, and send it, etc.
* To make it really hard, have the sequencey reset if you press "detect".

The puzzle is well designed and scripted, but too easy right now, IMO. Good luck!

LGM · Sun 16/10/2005 17:29:59

My ears bled...

jetxl · Sun 16/10/2005 18:14:18

easy and fun.

Maybe it was easy because you described the goal of the puzzle.

Goldmund · Sun 16/10/2005 22:20:33

Thank you!
The comments are very helpful.
Most of you point out that the sounds are annoying, so I'll exchange them, but maybe not tones, as I'm afraid that going an octave lower will make the sound all garbled. Slowing them down is also an option.

I'm happy that even the tone-deaf people solved it - this was my main concern.
As for making it more difficult, I don't know yet. Because you get this device so far in the game that I don't really want to stress the player with too hard obstacles and lose the suspense.

Maybe it would be best if "detect" gave you the lock's signal only once, as Farlander and Andail quasi-suggested, and then you had to repeat it... it's not very realistic, though, because if such a device existed it would surely sustain the detected tone.

Ashen · Sun 16/10/2005 22:29:26

Maybe you could include a volume control, to turn the detected signal down but not off?

I tend to agree that as it is, it's harder on the ears than the brain.

Goldmund · Sun 16/10/2005 22:36:32

Quote from: Ashen on Sun 16/10/2005 22:29:26I tend to agree that as it is, it's harder on the ears than the brain.

Haha, well said!

I love such an effect. After all, playing a game is not only a brain-kind experience, no?

"Donna killed my ears, but left my brain unharmed."

GarageGothic · Mon 17/10/2005 00:36:25

To be honest I had no recollection at all of how I could possibly have inspired this, so I had to dig up the By the Sword thread to find the answer. But I'm glad to have been of service

I think it's a fine puzzle, and the difficulty level matches my ideal that interactivity shouldn't be there to hold up the player but to give him a hands-on experience and allow him to perform all the cool tasks of the story himself. You should realize though, that most people will probably solve it using the "sounds merging" effect rather than actually matching the tones. But to be honest that seems to be a more interesting and realistic solution than the usual "match the musical notes" puzzles you see in so many games.

Thumbs up!

Andail · Mon 17/10/2005 12:56:27

Quote from: GarageGothic on Mon 17/10/2005 00:36:25
I think it's a fine puzzle, and the difficulty level matches my ideal that interactivity shouldn't be there to hold up the player but to give him a hands-on experience and allow him to perform all the cool tasks of the story himself.

True, and it's very important to look at the puzzles immediately prior to and after this puzzle, and their levels of difficulty.
As it is now, this is way too easy (I don't wanna honk my own horn for solving this very easily; I'm a bad puzzle-solver generally and have always relied on walkhroughs when completing games) as a "function-bearing" or "key" puzzle. As a little original pastime, meant to relax the player after and before much harder puzzles, it works fine.
I happen to know that Donna has at least one or two very difficult puzzles, so the general gameplay may not be affected.

SSH · Mon 17/10/2005 14:28:10

Be careful you don't get sued under a disability discriminition legislation!

Seriously though, I hope there's a way to solve it for the deaf

Goldmund · Mon 17/10/2005 14:39:37

Nice, SSH.
You frown upon the only blind-friendly puzzle in the whole adventure gaming.

Andail · Mon 17/10/2005 14:40:14

Quote from: SSH on Mon 17/10/2005 14:28:10
Seriously though, I hope there's a way to solve it for the deaf

Hm, and what would that be?

Haven't there been plenty of games featuring sound-puzzles?

Kweepa · Mon 17/10/2005 14:47:07

Quote from: Andail on Mon 17/10/2005 14:40:14
Quote from: SSH on Mon 17/10/2005 14:28:10
Seriously though, I hope there's a way to solve it for the deaf
Hm, and what would that be?

If you turn the sound off, it could show some waveforms.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Tue 18/10/2005 11:55:35

The detect sound should only play once per press (and limit how many times you can hear it) otherwise it is a simple matter of leaving detect on and moving up or down until they match perfectly. I like the concept and with a limit on how many times you can hear the target sound it would be a solid puzzle.