Issue with lips in 3D model

[jwalt]

Waheela had posted an animated gif in a forum thread that I found interesting. I've been playing with FaceShop and decided to run one of the frames of Waheela's gif file through FaceShop.



The original gif image is to the left. The FaceShop texture map is to the right. The floating head is the model rendered in Bryce 7, with Bryce eyeballs. I keep encountering similar problems around the corners of the mouth, where points seem to be out of line, or pinched. The program requires positioning five dots to set up the mouth (in the "EZ" mode). Any suggestions? Any comments about the model, or the usefulness of this type of model?

[Renal Shutdown]

I've not used the program, but from what it sounds like, you're drawing a wide and shallow "W" shaped line for the mouth?  The original gif has a smile with teeth, and the texture has something similar looking.  The model has a closed mouth.  I'd suggest altering the texture to close the mouth, and then reapply that to the model.

As for the usefulness of the model, I've no idea.  What did you want to use it for?

[jwalt]

@ Renal Shutdown - Wanted to thank you for the response. It looked like this post was just going to sink away, out of sight. Regarding usage, I hoped someone would have worked with the program enough to offer up an opinion of whether or not it was worthwhile for creating unique characters. Seems, to me, it might be useful, but I'm not an expert.

[Wicked]

Its best possibly to take it to a board  where bryce is used they would know better, I have messed with some of 3D programs Spazz,Sketchup,Blender but sorry I have not seen this problem before.

[Ryan Timothy B]

I've had this problem before on my first (and only) realistic head modelling. I was using Maya and somehow messed up the normals. I guess I deleted the faces and edges too often, and also attached too much stuff that it messed up somehow. I ended up trying to position all the normals by hand, but ended up giving up as it wasn't working out properly. As for faceshop, not a clue, perhaps it's doing the same poor modeling techniques as I was. lol

[Anian]

The problems I see is that for some reason eyelids makes shadows on the eyeballs, which doesn't make sense. Eyeballs should be more forward. And while on the eyelids, they're very cartoonish (in that they have straight lines and don't look that organic).
The face doesn't actually look like the one on the photograph - face is shorter and nose and lips are too big.
And the hair, please stop doing that, unless the hair is reeeeeeeeally short (like a soldier or something), don't draw the hair on the head model. You can have hair as a separate model, as a hair and fur modifier or as the same model but actually modelled, but don't texture it onto a person. If you can't achieve that transition correctly then edit the texture so there's no hair.

The edge of the lips might be what Ryan mentioned, or something similar. When there are too many polygons in one place, which are all twisted around, there's probably some overlapping and that needs cleaning up.

[jwalt]

Thanks, folks. In Hexagon and Anim8or, it looks like the points are pulled out of the general curve of the face. I'm not seeing anything that seems to be wrong with the normals; it appears to be just a matter of point location.

@ Anian, I should put up my Barney Fife face, in which it paints part of his cop cap on his forehead. I've been bugged by the eyelashes, too. Looking into it. The fact that the face doesn't really look like the photograph actually may be advantageous, in that I might not be hearing from Waheela's lawyers. And wanted to thank you again for the MakeHuman suggestion in the other thread. I wound up with some sort of Alpha version, which doesn't seem to do everything it should do, but is certainly worth messing around with. Oddly enough, the Alpha version seemed to be the only version available when I went to the site. There was a comment about MakeHuman on the DAZ forum that indicates the Alpha version is being rebuilt nightly, and has features appearing and disappearing seemingly at random.

[Renal Shutdown]

Loomix's FaceWorks is another option to consider for turning pictures into models, I found it to be pretty simple when I tried it.

As for 'creating unique characters', I can see it being handy to cobble together a bunch of gifs to use as textures, for passer-by type characters.  However, I think your time would be better spent making simplistic base models, and then making the textures yourself.  Once you have a texture done (at a larger size, with more definition), it would be fairly simple to duplicate and edit the textures, making small changes (eye color, shading to enhance angles, etc).  This way, you're also not limited to the rather limiting style most generic programs offer; they all seem to look like early attempts at CG in kids shows, and have very little character.

For blender specifically (and others in general) I'd suggest checking out David Ward's tutorials on both youtube and cgcookie.  I've found his videos very easy to learn from, and they'll result in a much more unique look than the current style.

EDIT:

A couple of other quick suggestions.

If you're using the model to pre-render out a bunch of 2D sprites, then I'd suggest going to town on the texture sizes. 1024x1024 or 2048x2048 will produce much better results than what a small gif will do.  The eyes have clarity, yet the rest of the model is far too blurred in comparison.  A more defined texture will add a ton more detail, but will only be slower for the original rendering.  Performance of the 2D sprite won't be affected.

Secondly, have a look at 3d.sk (has nudity), as they've got a vast collection of reference shots of front/side of head, and are perfect for projecting on to models to make textures.  The hair is usually tied back for close ups, too, so you can make the hair as an entirely separate and inter-changeable entity, and as such add lots more variety to multiple models with a minimum of effort.

[Renal Shutdown]

I ended up trying to position all the normals by hand, but ended up giving up as it wasn't working out properly.

There should be an option somewhere to remap all the selected normals automatically.

[jwalt]

@Renal Shutdown, I looked at a long list of Ward's tutorials. Impressive. Thanks again.

[waheela]

Hahaha! Awesome!
I'm so glad my .gif inspired you!