Okay, I want to get more serious about pixeling characters. I used a reference cg as a reference for the basic outlines, but I made colouring, shading etc. all by myself. I know the shading is still very basic, but I would like to keep it simple so that the character could possibly be animated. I am also not happy with the face yet... it looks a bit scary to me :D So I am happy about any advise to improve it a little :)
(http://ck37.image.pbase.com/image/56916348.jpg)(http://ck37.image.pbase.com/image/56916348.jpg)
Great sprite!
Do you want her to be actually Japanese or just anime-style "Japanese"?
If the former, make her eyes black, and her hair black (otherwise the school would probably dye it and she's get in trouble... unless she's at a foreign school but then she'd probably not be wearing a sailor uniform). Also, she should be carrying her mobile in one hand (with at least 50 straps on it, Mickey Mouse and Pooh) and a colourful face towel in the other, which she uses to cover her mouth with 50% of the time. (You got the bowed legs just right!)
Otherwise, it's great ^_^ I actually like the simply shading you've used.
If you want to soften the face a bit, darken her eyes a tad and give her more "black" area... not a one-pixel sized pupil. I would also make her face shape less angular and bring the "cheeks" down a little lower. The lips are nice... does she need eyebrows?
If you want to make her a little cuter, replace the seperate nostrils with just a little line indicating where the tip of the nose is. Also, give her a bit of black around the top of her eyes to give the appearance of eyelashes.
Hey, that's a cute one, but it isn't your first, is it?
I've edited the face, mostly according to Kinoko's suggestions, widened her neck and thighs and hinted at the chest ;)
Edited the shoes a bit, too.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/redraw_tot2.png)x2
As Kinoko pointed out, it's hard for her to look Japanese with so few Japanese traits, the bright green eyes, red brown hair and pointed nose make her seem to me more like a member of staff aboard an American cruise ship, rather than a Japanese schoolgirl, so if you do want people to realise she's Asian without spelling it out I'd edit it further, something like
(http://www.caverider.com/temp/clspr1.png)
If it's your first try, it's excellent, by the way.
Wow, :o the face really looks much better now. Thank you, Kinoko for your advise, and thank you to Khrismuc and Scotch for the paint overs. It does not look that much complicated, but really much better. I will copy it in my paint programme and look exactly at how you did that. :) I really love what you two did with the eyes and the lips!
It is my first real sprite indeed, but, as I said at the top, I pixeld over a CG, as recommended in Eric's famours tutorial :)
Kinoko: I am not definetely going for a "Anime" or "Manga" style, but does not 100% have to go for a realistic style either... so some blond Japanese are acceptable ;)
shall i get you some pictures of typecal japanese school girls??
You know where to find pictures of Japanese schoolgirls? on the Internet??
The feet are still not right, especially in the paint over
They shouldn't close like this:
\ /
They have to open at least a little bit like this:
/ \
I hope that makes sense.
Quote from: scotch on Tue 07/03/2006 15:01:45
You know where to find pictures of Japanese schoolgirls? on the Internet??
*giggles*
Quote from: scotch on Tue 07/03/2006 15:01:45
You know where to find pictures of Japanese schoolgirls? on the Internet??
yeah but i'll get them from a movie. Atleast I won't get porn then.
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Tue 07/03/2006 15:14:21
They have to open at least a little bit like this:
/ \
I hope that makes sense.
I know what you mean and I want to thank you for pointing it out, but many Japanese girls actually have their feet like that \ / ;)
(I think that's what Kinoko meant about the bowed legs)
I believe the proper term is "pigeon-toed"
Oh. I didn't know that... You learn something new every day :P
So, now I say that it's just perfect and it doesn't need anything more to it :=
That's the cowboy position, right? Like, cowboys walk like they were still on a horse... Even though you keep the feet turned in, I'd still like to see the knees brought a bit more together, or maybe it's just my kinky mind, but try it, won't hurt
Yeah, Japanese girls tend to become a bit bow-legged and pigeon-toed because of the necessity in Japan to sit in 'Seiza' (Sitting on your calves, essentially, with knees in the front) as often as they do in school (During school assemblies, many formal sports and the like). This leads to the bow-legged look.
Kinoko - your assession of Japanese schoolgirls amuse me to no end, mostly 'cause it's so true. Also, just for reference if you're going to be making a game that has a good number of students in school uniform, that's a summer outfit; so the boys will be wearing white polo shirts and navy slacks, and you may also consider having a few of the girls wearing their gym pants underneath their skirts; the 'bad' girls, ironically, seem to be the only ones who exercise this particular form of modesty.
As far as hair is concerned, even that slight brown is still too much for the Japanese school system. As Kinoko said, in Japan students are required to have black hair unless they're foreign or in a foreign school. So I'd bring it down to a very dark gray, and give it light gray, or bluish highlights. That is, of course, if you're going for some form of realism. As you can see in most Japanese cartoons, this doesn't stop them from coloring their characters' hairs any way they feel like.
Kinoko, SpacePirateCaine... it's a bit off topic at this point, but I am "back to Japan" in April ;D
It's easy to be misled by the portion of the Japanese inferiority complex that gives rise to a standard of beauty dominated by anything that's not Japanese looking. Stupid anti-nihonjinron.
Sorry to bring this topic up again but... Las Naranjas, what? o_O Translation please.
Fun history lesson. In the Heinan period, in the wake of Korean domination, the artwork reflected aesthetics that looked like Koreans rather than the mongrel Malay-Korean of the average Japanese.
Rocket forward to the past 60 years. Work it out.
I still don't understand what you're trying to say :P
What he wants to say that Japanese people have a complex and always think that foreign stuff is better than Japanese stuff. But I just do love my Japanese sprite ;D
I like this sprite. I really do.
About Japanese people, they like the west. About me, I like Japan. Makes sence, doesn't it?
Wow, uh... where did you guys get this idea? They like a lot of western stuff, but Japanese people have QUITE a thing for their own stuff too. I depends who you talk to and what you're talking about, but I can assure you that in my limited experience over here, I've experienced more people telling me how great the Japanese way is than the other way around.
It is a common myth that the colourful hair in Anime and Manga is a result of worship of the west. Naranjas is probably referring to other issues, but on this particular one, the myth is really not grounded in reality. My understanding of the history is that because manga was all black-and-white, inking hair became a real pain. Everyone has black hair, making a lot of black ink. For simplicity, artists began leaving that area blank. It now looked as if their characters were blonde or somesuch. As colour came in, artists began to play around with it, since the hair was not black anymore anyway, with reds and yellows and purples.
It should be noted that non-japanese rarely have bright purple or pink hair anyway--and if they do, it may be a colouring style indirectly influenced from Japanese pop-culture.
Japenese trends do emulate North America and Europe sometimes, but probably about to the same degree (or less) that North America are now emulating Japan, from their workplace programs (more popular in early 1990's and 1980's), to popular culture and animation styles.
Back on topic, the problem with the original sprite is that it doesn't have the level of abstraction of "classic" manga, or the realism depicting an actual Japanese face. Obviously Manga is diverse and you can do any style you like, but from a first glance of something "attempting" to be something else, it feels a bit too in between. The paintovers take the art in a more realistic direction (I think, the origial sprite isn't appearing for me), but you could go far more abstract as well, larger mouth, differently shaped head, perhaps taller. You may not like this idea, but it more apes what we generally see in the Manga style over here and thus will seem more "mangaish" going the other way, towards "authentic" Japaneseness will mean black hair, black eyes, etc.
I think it's a very nice sprite, and I can see you going either way. Which is what other people have said, more or less, probably making this a useless post.
C'est la vie.
QuoteMy understanding of the history is that because manga was all black-and-white, inking hair became a real pain. Everyone has black hair, making a lot of black ink. For simplicity, artists began leaving that area blank.
No, sorry. This is incorrect. Invest some time in studying what rasterized comic tone is and how the almost industrialized application of such in japanese comics makes the situation you describe an improbability. The quantity of ink isn't an issue really, because japanese comics are 20% ink, 80% comic tone. If someone inks the outline of the hair and doesn't feel like filling it in, they can (and did) use comic-tone in about 10 seconds and move on.
If there is truth to the western-influenced colour of hair, it should be discussed in a different context than the technical.
Tezuka clearly stated that the big eyes he helped make famous in the medium were directly influenced by Disney, for example. Maybe a similar situation occured with hair?
hence the "anti nihonjinron" comment kinoko. So much comes from a bizaare melding between the national inferiority complex and the chauvanism of nihonjinron. Both are stupid and Japan would be the better for shedding both of them.
Also, there's the highly irritating fact that the majority of Japanese women I've met claim "white guys look better" [probably a higher proportion since they've travelled here for some reason]. That's just fucking stupid.
Quote from: Las Naranjas on Fri 10/03/2006 22:01:06
Also, there's the highly irritating fact that the majority of Japanese women I've met claim "white guys look better" [probably a higher proportion since they've travelled here for some reason]. That's just fucking stupid.
What's so stupid about that?
The average non-caucasian girl is more attractive to me visually than the average caucasian girl.
Plus, cross breeding leads to healthier children, so it makes sense from a natural selection point of view.
And why does it irritate you? I thought you were a "white guy".
Maybe he is gay? ;D (Just kidding, don't be angry please!)
I am really suprised my sprite really caused a lot of discussion about manga-style realistic style etc. To be honest I did not think of Manga style at all, but I was not going for something realistic either. Maybe when I get more used to pixel-art I can really start thinking more about a certain style. For the moment I am just happy when they look nice in any way ;)
Thanks again for all advise :)
Stupid? It's an opinion. I think latin girls look better than asian girls in general. I didn't have any interest in Japaese guys until today. It doesnt mean anything.
And look, manga is the way it is because it was a gradual change over the years, with lots of different influences. Sure, Tezuka was influenced by Disney a lot. Tezuka is one of a gazillion manga artists though, and they didn't all spring forth from him. They're all different people, they have their own personal influences, and a great deal of it didn't have crap to do with the west.
Totoro, your sprite looks really good ^_^