Attention: This is NOT how I draw! I use a Wacom tablet and Dogwaffle and normally spend a couple hours on my pics... This is a mockup I did at work (hence I don't have my tablet or my lappy w/ Dogwaffle on it) with MSPaint in a couple minutes after sketching out the pose on a piece of scrap paper. I just had to get that out of the way...
(http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7026/untitled8xm1.png)
What I'm looking for here isn't critique on the art, but on the pose. I want a much more dynamic pose, but I can't think of how to do it. I wanted maybe to drop the camera angle a bit down and to the right so the face and the steering wheel were closer together in the panel. Does anyone have any ideas, or is this pose okay?
EDIT: The idea, by the way, is that he's driving fast and he has something heavy on his mind... I want the camera angle to help get this idea across...
EDIT 2: BTW, this is just a quick sketch... He won't be naked in the final draft :P
Just an idea. He's one leg could be on the dashboard.
about like this: (note: the camera view may not be good, but the point is the pose)
(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2207/autos7zy.png)
Hrmmph. Why the hell not. Here, why don't I just have him like this...
(http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/8302/untitled9xy.png)
You know, driving with his ass while kicking himself in the back of his own head? I guess that's as dynamic a pose as any...
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?.. ::)
I'm sorry, but my humor is a little warped. I don't mean to be ungrateful for the advice (if, indeed, you were serious...) but I don't see how that's even really possible. Even in your pic, it looks like he's stretching unrealistically. I don't think anyone is capable of driving like that, unless they're Reed Richards.
What I kind of meant was, how can I make that pose look more dynamic... By changing camera angles, etc...
I think your last pic there is as dynamic as it gets
It's not a bad pose or a camera angle really. I think it's nice.
But if I was rather, angry and had thoughts in my mind while driving, I wouldn't have my left arm like that. This pose seems a little relaxing only because of the arm. The face seems very concetrated and this is good. Maybe grasping the gear box could work better. And his head is big in compsarison to the body, but you will fix that, i know.
He's not really angry... He's on his way to a "job" that might be the end of him, so it's more heavy, somber... But with a hint of "Here, let me introduce you to my friend Ahmo... Ahmo Kikyass..."
Maybe a more dynamic camera angle isn't the answer... It might be if this were for a comic version of "The Fast and the Furious..." but maybe not here. As soon as I get home, I'll do a draft sketch and we'll see where I go from there.
EDIT: Maybe you're right about the relaxed pose, Nik... Here's an idea... How about his elbow out the window, but resting his head in his hand... Like this...
(http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8131/untitled4bc.png)
And maybe a little less of him in the pic, like I've shown above...
Maybe that looks like he's talking on a mobile, tho ....
by mobile, i mean cellphone, btw ;)
that is better.
He does though look like he's talking to his mobile phone. But it is better. He does look extremly troughtfull to me. And I guess that this is what you want to make him look, so well done!
I could put his hand in a more forward position... one finger running along the side of his face, then maybe the other three covering his mouth... that's how I sit when extremely thoughtful... Or maybe in the "Sherlock Holmes" position, with his hand shaped like a gun with his finger running up the bridge of his nose (but I'm not sure how to do that at this angle...).
Stay tuned. I get home from work in about 2 1/2 hours, and then I'll sketch this out on my tablet and submit that to see what you think. I'm getting tired of using MSPaint. I wish good ideas wouldn't hit me when I don't have access to my equipment.
BTW, the reason I'm asking help on this is because it's the splash page for the first chapter of a comic I'm working on, and I want it to be memorable and well-done.
Tilt his head forward and down a bit so he's looking up at the road, that will make him a bit more broody. Also, you could have him with his hand over his chin like he is contemplating if you want him to appear to be thinking about something. Keep at it!
Grrr. Here I go back to MSPaint again. I wanna go home!!!
So, Progzy, you mean something like this (this is prolly my worst pic yet...)?
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/91/untitled6gv.png)
With his head leaning forward, off the headrest... maybe in the final version the tilt downward will be a little more noticeable... Thumb on one side of his jaw with fingers wrapping around to the other side... eyes up on the road...
I changed the camera angle too, to be a bit more forward. Maybe this will be what I go with... Thanks for the idea.
Like that, only finished of course ;).
Okay, here goes... This is STILL only a rough sketch, as I'm not going to render until I'm absolutely certain I've got something good going on.
(http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/9480/frame11up.jpg)
Any comments, critiques, or paintovers welcome.
EDIT: I can already see that the backseats tilt downward :(
And again, he won't be all nuded up in the finished picture.
Hem, I don't know if you intended to correct this in the future while rendering, but the door is wrong, I think. The drivers door that is. To all the cars I've ever been there is no seperation of the window. It is one straight window all the way (maybe in the States, the cars are like this, though, I dont know). But also because of the door window, the roof seems to have an angle. Is it a sports car, that could justify that angle? And of course right next to him, there should be the hand break or the gears.
Car sickness! Dead cow on the road! He looks like he's gonna be sick.
Nah, I think it's excellent, he's a thinking showoff mofo!
I think if you move the "camera" further down and to the right, still holding on his face, it'd look more dynamic.
If you wanted to have fun, you could stick the "camera" right behind the steering wheel and show his face through the handles.
It looks really good with the pose and all, but it does look kinda like he's going to be sick, because he's blocking his mouth forcefully. If his grip wasn't so strong, or if we could see some more finger seperation (the index finger at a slight distance from the others). Perhaps only the index finger should cover the mouth, and thus some of the mouth will be visible, while the other fingers are slightly below. Try the pose out, to me it seems more natural that way.
Have to say, I'd love to see the final outcome of this, this should work very well for a comic splash screen.:)
Nik: he's driving a Jeep Cherokee, which does have the seperation by the window. As a matter of fact, most trucks and SUV's have it that I know of. Here's a pic (I didn't use it as reference, but maybe I should have)...
http://www.speedace.info/speedace_images/jeep_cherokee_interior_leather_seats.jpg
Also, this is an automatic vehicle.
Ginny: Totally right. I think I'll keep this the way it is because the fingers are thick right now anyway. WhenI do the final rendering, I'll seperate them some, maybe having that index finger arch over the upper lip, although with my style I'm not sure the mouth will be very visible... I thought, the way I had it, it would look like the index finger was covering the mouth and the other fingers were curled up under the chin, but I think you're right that it looks like he's holding back some manner of vomitous reaction...
Thanks for the comments all. I will have a rendered version later tonight.
Judging from the position of his seat, the steering wheel appears to be mounted almost in the middle of the car... you might wanna look into that
The biggest prob I have with the newest pic is the interior of the vehicle. The angles are wacky to me, and things don't seem to be in the right place. I don't think it uses proper perspective.
Hard to put into words though...
Quote from: Squinky on Thu 22/12/2005 23:21:15
Hard to put into words though...
I know, I just tried. To keep the angle on the driver, the whole car should be turned. Maybe set up some two-point perspective system to get it right. It is very wrong now.
It doesn't use proper perspective in the backseat... The side wall and everything else should be right... The backseat is really whacked out, though. Like I said, any paintovers, or at least guidelines for where the perspective should be, are very welcome.
EDIT: Think I found the problem... This still isn't using proper perspective, but it should be better now...
(http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/1705/untitled8rv.jpg)
It's better, but still leaves a pretty messy impression.
Simply following the lines of the car reveals some problems:
(http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/1955/easyfix19oj.png)
(http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/9978/easyfix21zw.png)
(http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5346/easyfix32zm.png)
- The steering wheel should be more to the right
- Driver's seat more to the left
A problem now is that the depth seems to be wrong. The back seat should be pushed further back, which could be easily done by following a new line to the right vanishing point.
One could get a pretty decent perspective this way, but it ignores depth measurement, and forces the camera angle into a little less dramatic one (further from the axis of the subject. Btw my character doesn't lean against the window... that would help).
My best advice on learning perspective properly is reading this chapter by Andrew Loomis: http://www.saveloomis.org/successfuldrawing/29.htm
I'm working on perspective now... The thing that was really throwing me off was the concept that you can use a variant of three-point perspective to draw slanted objects... Now that I understand how that works, I've done a couple sketches and they are much better. I'm still having a big problem getting everything to fit in the pic, such as the seats being the right distance from the window and the dash... The only way to do it that I know of is to draw the entire car from the ground up and map out the car isometrically and then build it up from there... which will suck. Stay tuned, yet again, though... If I can find a way to not have to build an entire car every time I want to draw a small part of one, I'll update this until I get it right.
Your canvas is square. If you want a more dynamic 'camera angle' try using a more cinematic 16:9 ratio. A widescreen aspect ratio forces you to frame, or in this case compose, the image in a more dramatic way.
Oo, mspaint! This needs a reply with mspaint!
I tried few poses too, but ended up with something you had at the start of the thread.
And I like it most. No insane angles (such as the right hand on very first pic - very hard to draw believeably), no holding the wheel like he could barely reach it (last edits), no covering face - which brings out thoughtful expression (instead of directly pointing at it!)...
Actually, I don't know. latest versions are quite cool too. And maybe my seat got TOO close.
Damn.
(http://www.increator.pri.ee/i/critshelp/lampart.gif)
Well, strangely, I think your first 2 sketches were better than the last one you did. The poses were more natural back then, and the camera angle less strange. Seems like you forgot to plan the composition. Actually, I think you should make several sketches as rough as the first ones, until you're really happy with the composition.
Back to the pose, the last one is not very natural. I would advise you to look at a mirror or to take place in a car and look by yourself how you would react if you were at his place.
About the camera angle and composition. Well, it would be so much easier for me to explain my thoughts in french, so I will just say that the composition must reflect the mood of the scene. Your last sketch is somewhat static, and we don't feel that there is a pressure. A good way would be to choose an long horizontal format (as Ali said in his post), and have the principal element (in our case, the hero) overlapped, cut by the edges, for example.
One last thing, when you're not sure about the composition, I advise you not to limit yourself by tracing the panel before you draw, that way you're not encumbered by edges. Also you can try different way to crop your picture after that.
Some rough sketches to illustrate (well, I don't drive, so I'm not really sure about the pose):
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/trucs/esper-comics01.jpg)
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/trucs/esper-comics02.jpg)
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/trucs/esper-comics04.jpg)
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/trucs/esper-comics03.jpg)
I hope what I wrote is understandable
Good luck with your comic
Thanks everyone who posted here. I've been away a couple days due to Christmas, so I haven't been back to reply to any of this. Dorcan, it looks like you work for Dark Horse.... I don't know that I can draw like that, but it's exactly what I was looking for. The comic in qestion is at www.esper.smackjeeves.com, and the strip in question takes place at the end of the prologue, which is six strips away. So therefore, I have a good amount of time to be working on it before it needs to be put up.
The place to look at is cartoons (obviouslyÃ, :))
This is from the new Spiderman cartoon:
(http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/9679/driver7qx.jpg)
It's a maintanance-worker fleeing from a monster in his car. In the right image he's dodging some traffic.
There's also a great camera angle in Inspector Gadget - Out to Launch, where Gadget pursues Brain in the Gadgetmobile (and he's driving REAL fast). Nut unfortunately I don't have a screenshot. I tried to reproduce the idea, but probably didn't succeed much:
(http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/5435/drv28jx.gif)
(Looks awful, but the idea is:)
- view from the front
- he is leaning forward, his head close to the wheel
- thus his elbows are wide apart
- he's clenching the wheel real tight
- his eyes are narrow an he frowns with concentration
Note also that switching angles, internal/external view, detail/overall view adds a lot of action