I'm working on a new game...again, which will be hopefully finished in time to join this month's MAGS. I already have a nice plot, but my main character gives me headaches. I've been working on him all day and tried several different styles and resolutions, but nothing seems to work right. Now my wrist hurts and I'm too tired to continue working today, so I thought I'd use the break wisely to get some feedback on him.
Here is what I have so far:
1st crappy version (http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sam.png)
2nd crappy version (http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke%20copy.png)
The version used in the game:
Original:
1x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke-mini.gif) 2x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke-mini.gif)
Update 1:
1x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_ani.gif) 2x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_ani.gif)
Update 2:
1x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sam_ver3.gif) 2x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sam_ver3.gif)
Which version do you think is the best? How can I improve them? I've had a lot of difficulties with the pose, the face, the shadows, well, mainly with everything... :'(
So please help me!
#3 is the best. Pretty good work!
#1: Redo the upper body, it looks too small right now, as if his pants would be all the way up over his belly button or so. I don't think that is meant to be like this, is it? :)
#2: Shoes are to big and his pose is not a very good idea. For some other reason I think he looks boring there. Can't put my finger on it though...
But good work with the third one! For some reason the second and third one pose looks good in lower res...
I like the third one best too. Beautiful, while still quite easily animateable.
First one is quite okay... I'ts just too RPG-ish and small.
I don't like second one much - most likely because of this Disney/The Simpsons roundly drawing style, which is very rarely good :P Also, he looks like an old alcoholic, while on third version he looks like 20 years younger.
I too agree with them. Although each are nice in their own way, I'd go with the third, as long as the backgrounds compliment it well.
The only change I'd make from what I see on the third, is to make both his eyes face one direction.Ã,Â
like [w]__[w]
(b is black, w is white)
so he doesn't look so cross-eyed.
keep up the good work!
Personally i like the second one best. I think the haircut of the second one is better then the third one, and i don't really like the eyes of the third one.
But like mamarulez said, the shoes of the second one are a bit to big. I think if you make them a little bit smaller that character would be great.
I like third version the most, but it looks as second version was resized, and then some linearts were corrected. That way you got a small sprite with 900 colors (if the program I'm using for colorcount isn't lying), the paintover uses 25 colors (28 with white, black and background color).
Here's a minor paintover to show you some of my ideas:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/D_Venus'.gif)
What I did:
-redrew the lineart,
-changed his posture a bit,
-filled the lineart with solid color,
-started shading and highlighting,
-lowered the colors' saturation a bit,
-added some pixels to the hair,
-added dithering (right char.)
The main thing I wanted to do is to lower the color count. You can see all of the colors I used in the pic.
Crosseyed problem remains, but that's easy to fix, just take Scumbuddy's advice.
Thanks for all the feedback and the paintover. It was really helpful. As most of you liked the third one best, I'll go with this version. With the help of Damien's paintover I tried to improve my version and I really like the result. I pretty much liked the colours, so I took the freedom to use them. Hope you don't mind.
Here is the hopefully finished version, a bit animated:
1x (http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_ani.gif) 2x (http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_ani.gif)
Anything to improve?
Looks really better now, congrats...
But has he boobs or what?
Quote from: mamarulez on Thu 10/02/2005 21:33:22
Looks really better now, congrats...
But has he boobs or what?
Nah, he is just supposed to look a bit more muscular than the original. Guess I'll have to work on that again if it is not instantly recognizable as muscles. Well, back to work then :'(...
No, no, don't get me wrong. He looks very much improved by now.
I would never be able to draw something like this myself. Honestly.
I was trying to make a joke with this "boob"-thing (because I couldn't find
a different critique and it kinda jumped into my eyes...)
The 'boobs' look like the guys chest, so it's k :)
Looks great, but there is one flashing pixel between his legs...
Oooh er ^_-
(sorry)
I like how it is coming along, but (to me) he seems to be standing at a wierd angle, and his jaw sort of stops short, making him look a bit chin-less (and not as manly as a muscular type guy should look). I did a bit of touch up here and there and made a few quick example animations (nothing flashy, I don't have the time right now) to give you some ideas. Hope this helps.
Some details on my changes-
1. Fixed his chin and added shading to his face
2. Fixed his left and right arms to make his pose more natural at the angle you chose (could still use some work).
3. Fixed his shoes a bit.
4. Widened his left bicep and chest somewhat, since you were going for a more muscular character.
5. Switched the light source to be off to his front-right
original (http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_ani.gif) altered (http://members.cox.net/veradin/sam1.gif) (http://members.cox.net/veradin/sam2.gif) (http://members.cox.net/veradin/sam3.gif) (http://members.cox.net/veradin/sam4.gif)
Wow :o :o :o.
These animations are just awesome. I love the way how you use shadows and stuff. I always try to do it myself, but fail miserably. Is there anywhere some sort of tutorial or something where I could learn how this is done? If not, ever thought of making one, ProgZmax? I had a look at your other works and they are just amazing. I love your style. I'll get to work now trying to make this character at least half as good as yours even though I know I'm gonna fail ;).
Anyway, thanks a lot. :-*
EDIT:
Here is the newest version:
1x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sam_ver3.gif) 2x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sam_ver3.gif)
Hey, I appreciate the compliment, but I'm no artist- I've just been doing sprite work for 11 years (if you aren't any good in 11 years it's time to retire) lol..
The newest version looks VERY good, even with him leaning a bit. The only advice I can give you now, padawan, is to only make him as detailed as you are prepared to invest time in animating him, because that is where things get tough :). As to a tutorial, I'm not really into that sort of thing where drawing is concerned. It's all so subjective, you see? The techniques I use are just tricks I've developed over time which brought me towards my own style, and those same tricks would probably just make clones of me out there, rather than talented people with their own personal touches. I CAN give you a tip or three on animations and poses, though (since those are rather generic):
BEFORE I even draw a character I imagine what his personality is, think of a few words to describe him, and THEN draw him. I find that the pose sort of works itself out from meek to cocky. If this doesn't work for you, think of a pose from a movie or video game character that most closely matches his personality and work from it.
Shadowing is fairly simple so long as you adhere to the golden rule: BE CONSISTENT. If the lighting is from the upper left of the character highlight his upper left and darken the lower right side of him (as well as any areas that fall away from the light, like the other side of his left arm, his inner leg). Keep it to 2-3 shades for lighting unless you are making King of Fighters or something with very large characters. With small sprites, less is more.
For animations, don't be afraid to exaggerate a little, especially with smaller sprites. This is often the only way you can get across the emotion your character is going through. For your first animations, an excellent number of frames (and what I use most often) is 6. I don't know why, but I always have had good results with 6 frames, and it serves walking animations well since it is not too many (which slows down the movement) and not too few (which makes it look blocky). For the face, this is the primary method for you to convey deeds, emotions, and dialogue to the player, so don't be afraid to move the jaw a bit, play with the eyebrows. I tend to make an expression myself before I draw it on the character, just so I know what I'm doing. The same goes for expressions with the arms, look at what your arms are doing and then try to copy that movement (in stop motion) to your character.
And the most important thing is that, regardless of any negative feedback you receive, don't give up! Persistence and patience are rewarded in time, and there is nothing like a polished sprite to make the naysayers eat their words. And your character looks great, so I don't see any problem there. Good luck with it!
Thanks for all the advice and tips, ProgZ. That was really helpful and I learned a lot.
Anyway, as I'm very unlikely to finish this game in time for the competition anyway, I'll just continue without the time pressure and get it out once it's ready.
I tired to turn my char to face completely to the left. I'm quite satisfied with the overall look, but somehow his nose bothers me. This pose isn't going to be used in the game, but rather as a little help for me to start on the walk-cycle:
1x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_left.gif) 2x(http://www.ninamorgenstern.de/AGS/sambrooke_left.gif)
What do you think?
i dont really mind the nose. its not bad. i would though, lengthen the arm just a bit more. nice job.
I like yor work so far ;D
some chainges to be maked (RED are the ones that are important):
1. He is standing in a Salute way, make him a little "comforable"
2. The arm is a little strange around the elbow that really irritates me
3. Lose the black outlines around the skin on the left arm
4. His chest around the "breast" is a little boxy change this
5. I dont like the crotch, it's strange :-\
other than that, it's good ;D these are the main things to be changed
Since you said you didn't like the nose, I made two versions for you to look at. The left is a smaller nose, and the right is a big one!
(http://members.cox.net/veradin/sambrooke_left.gif)
His arm looks awfully stiff to me in the side view. Consider letting is bend forwad a bit at the elbow, maybe or even keep his hands in his pockets. You can always take them out when he starts walking.