I'm having a conflict with myself with how I want to color my BGs.
The following BG is how I intended the style to be in the very beginning, which I still love:
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/finalNeigh.png)
How I did it was I made a quick scetch, really not detailed at all. I scanned it, resized it (to 320x200) and opened it in paint. Changed it to a monochrome image (to turn every line black and to get rid of the "fuzzies") then changed it back to a 24bit image.
From there I changed the lines to a light grey and then I colored and edited it as I went.
I've got some new BGs I (example below), but drew them with detail. The bummer is, I LOVE how they turned out in 320x200. I would like to keep the detail the way I drew it (instead of doing it over again in Paint), but I don't know how to color it.
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/LE-outside3-200.png)
What do you guys suggest? Should I scan again and color it in it's original state and then resize? I guess that seems like the logical way to go... but I don't know.
I guess my conflict is, I love all the detail in my new BGs, but also love the original BGs' style.
Thanks for any suggestions,
--Snake
I'd say rescan them and color them at a higher resolution before resizing. If you want to preserve the pencil linework, keep it as a separate "multiply" layer on top of everything else. Then you can always play around with its transparency setting or try removing it altogether after filling in the colors.
I really like your drawing, your work on the tree, trashcan and garden path in particular.
Can you post a full sized image? or better, a link to one?
As far as I'm concerned the old one looks way cool, one of my favorite bg's here in the AGS forums.
GarageGothic:
Multi-layers is something I really want to avoid. Mainly because I'm not that good in doing it and I don't have the tools anymore to do it. Is Photoshop any good? I've only used PSP7.
Dualnames:
Heh, thanks a lot, man. I like it a lot too, that's why I'm torn between the two styles because I really love how the detail in the other shot looks.
To Questionable and Everybody else:
Okay, here's the original scan resized to 640x400:
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/LE-outside640.png)
Is 640x400 a good size to color the scan at or should I do it larger?
PS
For the few of you that recognize this, the newer sketch you see here is not a replacement of the original, it's only a different angle. I need to edit the original to match the new BG, for example, the path to the front door/hedges/etc... I don't know, ultimately I think I might have to remake it anyway, especially depending on what I decide to do with the style of the BGs.
Thanks for helping, by the way.
I prefer to color as large as I can and then shrink it down to 2x the final size. Re-color and edit (Touch-ups, really.) Then I'll either o smaller than intended and blow it back up or just go to final size and put on polish. I'll have a color done tonight hopefully. I REALLY dig this image so I'm psyched to have a go. Maybe i'll give you some ideas of what's good, maybe i'll give you some ideas of what doesn't work. We'll see.
Quote from: Snake on Sun 02/11/2008 20:02:09
Multi-layers is something I really want to avoid. Mainly because I'm not that good in doing it and I don't have the tools anymore to do it. Is Photoshop any good? I've only used PSP7.
Man, I can't even imagine trying to color that sketch without using layers. I mean, it's possible, just like it's possible to drive in a nail with a screwdriver instead of a hammer, but you're not using the best tool available for the job.
You don't need to be fancy with it. Putting each object on a separate layer, with colors on one, details on another, shadows on a third and highlights on a fourth can come in handy (it makes touch-ups and revisions easier), but can get disorienting. Such an approach is strictly optional. However, the ability to keep your sketch separate from your actual coloring, even if you do all of it in a single layer, is invaluable.
And yes, Photoshop is good (there's a reason pretty much all professionals use it), but if you're not planning on utilizing the more advanced features, there are plenty of other paint programs that support layers, including many free ones. (See stickied thread.)
I've used GIMP and I use Photoshop currently. They're both very good programs. The major difference between them is $400.
I wouldn't imagine doing this digitally without layers. It's more like traditional painting if you don't but that's not necessarily a good thing. Why paint over everything just to get it to look right when you can just repaint what you need, isolated from the rest of the image...
ANYWHO. Figured I'd throw up what I have so far. Now, keep in mind there's no way that I would use this in a game as is. You need to really straighten it out and tighten it up. I played around with some colors and these are the ones that felt the best. I've got to put some value into the image because right now there's no direction to the scene. What do you think so far?
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll183/QuestionableQontent/inked.png)
I also made a quick coloring attempt at this, it's rather weird to me because I don't usually color over sketches, I typically repaint because the lines end up looking bleh whenever I do it. =] But I tried.
(http://www.novellice.com/images/tRP%20LE-outside640%20edit.png)
You can see what I mean with the tree...of course I purposely was using one of the layer styles to try and preserve the line work (being lazy and saving time...), but had I copy/pasted the tree itself either before or after coloring it, and then worked on it alone, I could have done a better job. Oh well.
Wow, you guys are amazing...
Questionable: How big do you like the picture to be colored at first? I love what you did with the cobble stones!
RedPress: I know it's unfinished, but you've almost hit the colors spot-on! You've even colored the stars like in the original...
QuoteMan, I can't even imagine trying to color that sketch without using layers. I mean, it's possible, just like it's possible to drive in a nail with a screwdriver instead of a hammer, but you're not using the best tool available for the job.
Heh, right. I'm going to have a look at the free paint programs with multi-layers and give that a wack.
I think what I'm going to do, which will be very tedious and time consuming, is make two versions. One in the style of the original and the second with layers.
--EDIT--
RedPress, what program did you use?
Dude(s), you have to use layers and build up your background and not just throw paint on top it.
It looks very flat and crayon-ish right now...I think there's long way to go from here
Andail, can you show an example please? I don't know how to do this myself what-so-ever. I thought they did a good job for just fooling around with it.
Right now I'm working on redrawing the BG with color in Paint, like the original.
--EDIT--
Andail, I've just been thinking about it for a minute and I think I've got an idea of what you're talking about. I'm going to try it out again...
Quote from: Andail on Mon 03/11/2008 17:53:17
Dude(s), you have to use layers and build up your background and not just throw paint on top it.
It looks very flat and crayon-ish right now...I think there's long way to go from here
Agreed and Admitted.
Quote from: Snake on Mon 03/11/2008 16:13:29
RedPress: I know it's unfinished, but you've almost hit the colors spot-on! You've even colored the stars like in the original...
RedPress, what program did you use?
I'm currently using Photoshop CS3. What I did was pretty basic, it works a little but it's not what I usually would do. I just lassoed each object and copied each one to their own layer. Then I took some of the colors from your other background and laid them out on a new layer, along with some of my own colors so that I could easily jump over and color-pick them out (that's how I matched the star colors). From there I painted over each one and set most of them to linear burn. Some of it was experimentation using multiple layers for the same object, like the tree.
Like Andail said, this is only the very beginning, but I thought we were just showing you ways to get started with color? It was never my intention to present a finished background. :/
If it were my background and I had a lot of time to spend on it, I'd probably merge each object with the color and line work and then go in and detail each one to look better. After that I'd make a layer for shadows and maybe another for more value. But yes right now it looks flat because for instance the grass is one solid color.
Alright, guys, after many failed attempts to pretend I knew something about layering, I decided to go with the original idea. Well, it's either that or have somebody paint them for me... but... bah.
Here's The finished touch-up before I start coloring:
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/LE-outside320color.png)
//--EDIT--//
QuoteIt was never my intention to present a finished background. :/
No way, man, not mine either ;) I was just thrilled to see it in color!
I only said, "I know it's not finished" because you had said that you didn't finish it to what you would normally do.
I'd really try and persevere with the layers, it can be daunting at first but it's a great help.
I started colouring this before the other two were posted, but as you can see I didn't get very far at all, it's a bit of a different take on it, I had http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=12950.0 on mind when I started it.
(http://www.custardsclutter.com/LE-outside640purple.png)
(Finish a damn game already, they've all looked great :P)
I did a little bit more to make it seem like night and maybe give it some more depth, I wasn't satisfied with my little color-over. I dunno what else to do at this point, and I'm honestly just flying blind at this, so I will just call it good and let you explore further from here. Hopefully all these examples will give you plenty of ideas and you'll zone in on a technique. As everyone has said, layers can be your friend, I hated them too when I first was introduced to them. They get easier to work with the more you do it, and if you do decide to go with photoshop I highly recommend reading some kind of tutorial on the layer styles, blending options, and the use of adjustment layers. Good luck!
Here's what I did.
1. I refined all the layers and reconfigured them by copy-merging them all to new ones so as to remove the linear-burn layers. That way I could work on them, without them blending into each other and still preserving the basic color and line work from before.
2. I added some further shading to the house, the tree, the trash can, and the porch rail.
3. I added shadows for some of the objects, like the tree, trash can, and mailbox.
4. I added more light, then erased the light to make the shadow for the porch rail. (inspired by privateer's edit! ^^ )
5. I used a curve adjustment layer to pull out some of the darker lines from the background but left the mailbox, trash can, and tree somewhat alone.
6. Finally, I slapped on a color balance adjustment layer to give the scene a bluer tint.
(http://www.novellice.com/art/tRP%20LE-outside640%20edit%202.png)
Also here's another suggestion. The mailbox is a foreground object, so in reality it shouldn't be in the same focus as everything else.
Here's a quick one:
(http://www.bryvis.com/images/other/agsf/snake_house.png)
Also, I notice the garbage can seems flat. I think you need to show slightly more of the top of it.
I suggest you keep the new image as cover and keep the old one in-game!!!
Quote
Questionable: How big do you like the picture to be colored at first? I love what you did with the cobble stones!
I resized your image to 960 x 600
I like starting with 1280 x 800 or 960 x 600 depending on the final size.
Here you go guys, I've decided to go with the old style.
The following BG is not concrete so I'm still going to tinker around with it:
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/LE-outsidefinal.png)
Thanks for all the previous help guys...
Lovely work, Snake. I think the high contrast lighting works really well with your nighttime scenery. Just be careful with using too bright values for the highlights of darker areas - the low resolution make those pixels appear very rough. I think the trashcan would benefit from using one of the darker gray colors from the house rather than pure white. Even if it's very reflective there must be some amount of light falloff over the distance from the lamp.
Beautiful, Snake!
Wonderful low-res, low-key scenery.
Even though you've successfully used very subtle tones, I think you could apply just a few more highlights here and there, just to give clarity to the shapes. Also, just a hint of yellow in the lamp light would work.
That's what I'm talking about. I know it's not finished..but the sky looks empty, the logo could go there,,
I think it would work great as a scrolling background used in the introduction - display title and credits over the starry sky and then pan down for the establishing shot of the house (assuming the first scene of the game takes place there).
GG & Dualnames: Yep, that's exactly what I had planned. The screen will pan down onto the house.
Also, the stars aren't permanent either. I'm thinking I'm going to animate them slightly, to make a "twinkling/glistening" effect.
Also, GG, I agree with you about the white on the trashcan/etc... I wasn't sure how the pure white would turn out. I'll try a darker color.
QuoteEven though you've successfully used very subtle tones, I think you could apply just a few more highlights here and there, just to give clarity to the shapes. Also, just a hint of yellow in the lamp light would work.
Mmm, yeah, especially the leaves on the tree. I had a hard time visualizing as I was drawing the lighter greens. The right side of the tree needs to be darkened somewhat as well.
Everyone:
Is the overall brightness okay? I'm worried it might be too dark, but nobody has mentioned it.
--EDIT--
Heh, I just now realized I forgot the shadows from the railing on the porch...
This looks absolutely gorgeous. Did you just paint over it in MS Paint? What process are you using?
Thank you!
Yes, this BG was entirely painted over in MS Paint... pixel... by pixel... blargh...
Though very time consuming, I love the end result.
(http://boursomac.com/webengine/images/smiley/clap.gif)
Just wanted to say that you have a great sense of atmosphere, Snake. I would love to play this game.
I really like the sky and the stars.
As for the brightness, it's fine on my LCD.
I like the look and the atmosphere you've set here. I do think the coloring could benefit from softer, less full greens and such, though, and I made an edit to show you what I mean:
1. Reduced the intensity of the greens (made the lighter areas drift toward yellow and the darker areas drift toward blue to help simulate the areas hit by yellow light and the areas in darkness).
2. Added a shadow below the porch. It's very unlikely that the porchlight could fully illuminate that area.
3. Added some shadows from the porch fencing.
4. Added some highlights on a few of the rocks.
5. Adjusted sky blues slightly towards the red range for a more purple look.
6. Altered the color of the distant house so it didn't match the sky colors as much.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/LE-outsidefinalcl.gif)
One thing I think could be improved is the texture on the tree. Right now it just looks dithered between two colors, which isn't bad except that it doesn't really address the shape of the tree in those areas or the shadows. Aside from that I think you've done a great job with this and I hope this helps you make it better!
Can you remove the light gray outline from the "mail" label? My eyes keep being drawn to it! =P
Quote from: Questionable on Sat 08/11/2008 03:35:41
Can you remove the light gray outline from the "mail" label? My eyes keep being drawn to it! =P
Just about to say that myself.
~Trent
Here's an updated version of this BG:
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/LE-outsidefinal2.PNG)
* Added the shadow cast by the porch railing (which I didn't mean to forget before I uploaded last time)
* Fixed the mailbox (which will be blurred, I just haven't gotten around to it yet)
* Worked on the stones a little bit more
* Cleared up the fence and fixed the grass benieth it
* Added a little beam of light from the distant house's window (might be removed)
* Worked on the leaves of the tree
* Worked on the walkway so the "grass-to-dirt" doesn't look so straight
* And tiny touch-ups here and there...
ProgZmax: Thanks for the suggestions on the coloring, you did a great job. But I think I'm going to stay with how it is. I really love the vibrant blue for the sky and the GREEN greens. I think it adds more of what I'm looking for for the atmosphere.
This will most likely be the last posting of this particular BG. Thank you all for helping me out!
Looks great, Snake. I'm not sure blurring the mailbox would be a good idea, it might clash with the crispness of the pixel art. It's not very intrusive with the current lighting, so I don't think it's really necessary.
Thank you.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, that it might clash. I'll give it a try anyway and see what I think.
The only thing that irks me is:
The porch bulb is yellow but the porch is light like there's a white flood light on it. A little bit of color there might give it more of a subtle abmiance rather than an obvious -----------> Here's where something happens!
I'm not too sure on what to do with the light, but I tried changing the color of the fixture and bulb to greys rather than yellow:
(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment/lightsample.PNG)
But, blah.
Does this look better?
Any further help with making this bulb look like it's actually on and illuminating, would be greatly appreciated...
Quote from: Questionable on Thu 13/11/2008 17:21:10A little bit of color there might give it more of a subtle abmiance
How about making the light yellow to match the original bulb?(that might have been what Questionable meant) Most artificial light appears that way (except neon, argon, fluorescent, and some others).
~Trent
Trent: Yes, I knew what he meant, but I don't want the light to be yellow, I want the light to be white and bright, which it is. But the thing is, I wasn't sure how to make the bulb and so I made it a lighter yellow color.
I've got an idea in mind, though. I'm thinking darkening the light and having the bulb itself be pure white instead.
//--EDIT--//
Here's the idea:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/lightsample2.PNG)
I like the pale yellow color that you did in the last edit. I'd also try other colors of light (pink, green, blue) with the color you have. I think the saturation is pretty good, but you could try changing the hue.
Then again, that might look horrible in a game (especially in your style).
~Trent
PS- I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence by suggesting that you didn't get what he meant. Rather, it's an insult to mine and my common sense, and says that I should really sleep more. :D
QuotePS- I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence...
No, I know that, Trent, I didn't take it that way :) Sorry if it sounded like I did...
This forum is for suggestions and suggestions are what I came here for.
And thank you for caring enough to even post something!