Adventure Game Studio

I know this room doesn't look very good  - especially if compared to all the other pics I saw in the critics lounge - but to certain extent it was meant to be this way.
Anyway it makes kind of difficult for me to ask the right questions ;)

(http://img69.yfrog.com/img69/2563/room1.png)

What I'm looking for are ways to make this room look more... realistic, but without losing it's "charm". For example, I have no idea how to make doors more "3D".

I'm also having lots of problems with shadows and walls. I don't know what to put on those walls to make them look good. 

Anyway all the critic, tips and hints will be appreciated.

P.S. I know that the table needs to be redrawn.

Your main issue is perspective.
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/wegorz3cL.png)

You can still ignore perspective if you know how to do it right, which this attempt was done wrong (if the skewed perspective was done on purpose).  Take a look at a DOTT screenshot:
(http://www.pixelnauts.net/images/screenshots/dott2.jpg)

Also you should be drawing at a smaller resolution.  If you drew with a smaller resolution, you wouldn't have all this empty space, if you had the same size characters.

If you're curving the wall on the left you should do the same for the right, also, a single light in the room should have a bit more contrast. Use light to define volume, or 3dness if you like.

And as Ryan said: perspective, perspective, perspective!!

cheap example:

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6420/34375951.jpg)

Absolutely amazing.

Thank you Ryan for great example and thank you cuestaluis for showing me the way.  :D

EDIT: Don't suppose it's a good place for that, but if anyone could recommend me a good perspective tutorial I'd be thankfull.

Makes me think of the Ring, although I'm sure there are any number of similar rooms in movies.

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/kamikazehighland/samara.jpg)

As for perspective, draw a vanishing point in the center, and connect the four corners of the picture to that point.

(http://www.olejarz.com/arted/perspective/images/intro.gif)

Now, divide the top and bottom line of the picture into equal sections, along with the left and right, and connect the ends to the center.  The line directly in the middle of the picture through the vanishing point is the horizon, and you can see the tops of objects below, or the bottom of objects above it.

(http://www.olejarz.com/arted/perspective/images/intro2.gif)

To draw a box in the middle of the room, draw a rectangle in the middle of the room, and connect the ends of the rectangle to the vanishing point.  Now cut off the lines to the vanishing point with another straight square within the bounds you set.  A square box is easier to achieve in a square picture. 8)

Changing the lightbulb is going to be a pain. Is the ceiling supposed to be that high?

As for making your doors "3D", don't trace a single line for the bottom of the wall and make the door start there, you need to have a little depth. I don't think I'm very clear, so here's a picture :
(http://www.ardecheloc.com/photos/couloir.JPG)
Look at the door to the right. The line for the bottom of the right wall is down and to the left of the edge for the bottom of the door and you see a wood pane thingie parallel to the back wall. Bam, depth.

Great!

Thank you all for your help. Guess it's back to Gimp for me  ;)

I really like your drawing. Whatever you do, don't lose that sketchbook charm.

I agree with Ryan about perspective - it's as important to know when not to use it as when to use it. Linear perspective isn't 'real', it's just a trick to convey depth - it's conventional. There are many other tricks/conventions (see any per-renaissance painting, and many post-modern ones too, as examples).

I think your picture would be ruined by an overly strict adherence to linear perspective - I /like/ the doors how they are now - it communicates something about the room which would be lost otherwise (makes the room feel oppressive, 'that walls are closing in' kinda feeling).

I also like how the light fitting just intrudes into the scene. Gives a sense that the ceiling is lost in the shadow cast by the lightshade.

Going to be difficult to get the lighting right. Or rather difficult to introduce shadow given that you've got a room which would be amply lit everywhere by a single bulb. Especially without compromising that sketchbook feel.  There's be some shadow from the lightshade and also from the falloff from the light source so I'd just go with that, but without compromising the mood of the room, something like:

(http://uoou.info/ags/room1a.png)

Hmm, well it does have a charm to it and you can tell what's in the scene in space, but still it looks strange.

Still, I think what the real problem will be is putting a character in there, have you thought how you'd draw him/she/it when walking in this scene? When you're thinking about that, you might realise that going with something more aligned to a perspective (like door side frames being vertical etc.) will make it much easier to draw.

The problem I see at this point is you straightened the walls but left the doors the same. This gives the effect that the doors appear to be leaned over at something like a 30 degree angle. As if when they were getting hung the contractor was drunk and put the doors up crooked.

If you want to go for the skewed perspective it's cool, and it can work very nicely. But you can't mix both styles. ;)

Quote from: uoou on Thu 19/11/2009 12:02:54
I really like your drawing. Whatever you do, don't lose that sketchbook charm

Don't you worry. No matter how hard I try I simply can't fight it  ;)

Thank you all for your help. Right now I'm also working on one other background and that one's really challenging -  the main character is encircled  by a huge number of people. Implementing at least kind of realistic perspective is practically beyond my reach. So be prepared for another lousy drawn picture to critc  ;)

I'm interpreting your background in two ways...  Either the slightly above eye level view which Ryan has shown or as if you are looking down on the room at an angle from a much higher viewpoint (see the quick mock up below).  If so then your vanishing point is going to appear way of the top of the page.  Perhaps this is what you mean by making the doors feel more 3D?


However,judging by the table it seems you meant it to be like Ryan has suggested but my eyes seem to want me to interpret it differently.  Either way it is a good start :) Just get to grips with one point perspective first and then take it from there.

Quote from: wegorz3 on Fri 20/11/2009 22:47:24
So be prepared for another lousy drawn picture to critc  ;)

Without wanting to anger the perspectivists... the last thing I would call your drawings (well, the one I've seen so far) is lousy. Your drawing conveyed the mood of a room beautifully, while yeah, absolutely lacking coherent perspective.

Thing is, art and visual depiction have existed for at least 32000 years, while linear perspective was only the norm for describing space for about 500 of those years. I feel very strongly that you should only use linear perspective when it's the BEST possible way to explain the space you're depicting, and not just treat is as THE way to do it.

Linear perspective isn't 'real' or even 'realistic' except in a very mechanically Victorian way which doesn't take our visual processing into account. It's just a convention and there have been many of those over the years. None are right or wrong, just better or worse at certain things.

It's a choice and yeah, if you WANT your pictures to use perspective then sure, learn it and do it right. But the other choices are perfectly valid too. I think one of the massive advantages of working in 2D is that you can easily choose the other way - it's much harder to do in 3D.

But before you decide, have a look around some stuff where perspective has been treated differently. Look at ancient art where, usually, figures of greater importance were larger and/or higher up in the scene. Look at pre-renaissance western european painting where perspectives were mixed. Look at Eastern iconic art where 'Byzantine perspective' is used - things get BIGGER as they get further away (with interesting theological implications). Look at cubism where the viewpoint is utterly fluid or futurism where they attempted to depict the passage of time...

Also look at examples where perspective falls over itself like with forced perspective or Escher's tricks or Hogarth's brilliant 'Satire on Perspective': http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Hogarth-satire-on-false-pespective-1753.jpg