Hello! I´m just trying to do my own adventure for a projetc at my university. So I have started to draw some backgrounds, but it´s really difficult.
My first backgorund is here (http://rapidshare.com/files/149345473/Sal_n6.png.html), I did it with a versión of MS paint...I want to know your impressions about it...I want to improve it, but I don´t konw how...I want something more colourfull and with better draws, could someone help me please??
Thanks ! ;)
Eh, Rapidshare? You can't use ImageShack or PhotoBucket to host images?
Even better here. (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/upload/upload.html)
Sorry!
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Sal%C3%B3n6.png
Have you thought about trying a lower resolution, as this is easier, generally quicker in terms of production. Also, there is all that blank space, so you clearly don't need this high a resolution...
(http://www.freewebs.com/markbilly/editroom.png)
Tried to sort perspective issues out too. Not sure how I did with it... :D
I don't like putting ceilings in fairly large rooms like this, but I left it in for you.
Tried to sort perspective issues out too.
What do you mean? I don´t understand this...
About the resolution, I want to put more things in the room, more details, so I think 800x600 is good,,but I´ll try 640x480 like you suggest...
Thank you!
Any more ideas????
Quote from: Jaime37 on Tue 30/09/2008 15:10:00
Tried to sort perspective issues out too.
What do you mean? I don´t understand this...
I believe he's talking about vanishing points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_Point). Theoretically, all lines in your image should cross in a single point, when lengthened(sp), as shown here (http://www.wooddigest.com/images/article/1190670390753_education1.jpg), for example (google image search = your friend). And now look at this:
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5697/vanishingpointhu7.png)
As you can see, it's a total mess - and I didn't even bother with checking all the lines. They basically don't cross at all, making the room look pretty weird and decidedly unnatural. And not a cartoon-style weird and unnatural either. Especially the desk seems to be quite out of the bounds of space and time.
Irony: /me talking about perspective ;)
Anyway, your're drawing in 1 point perspective and all your diagonal lines should cross a vanishing points. I've added those extended lines to your images to show what I mean.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Sal_n6.png)
This tutorial shows a room in 1pt. perspective (though the website looks pretty outdated)
http://www.olejarz.com/arted/perspective/ (http://www.olejarz.com/arted/perspective/)
Something similar as flash video.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/140001 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/140001)
@Akatosh: lol, what a double post :D
All right...So the best thing I can do is start a new room and discard this one. But there is something I dont understand...someone upside tell me about this "And not a cartoon-style weird and unnatural either", so I question how can I get a cartton style, and don´t worry about this fucking vanishing points?, is it possible??
Thanks again!
With the right style, you can indeed take a lot of liberties with vanishing points and stuff. Take a look at Alien Hominid (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/59593), for example:
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6076/alienhominidcb3.png)
The artist obviously didn't give two shits about realism, and yet, it works pretty well. But I'd advise you to try drawing "proper" backgrounds first - drawing with vanishing points in mind doesn't hurt (that much), it's good practice, and if you keep a simplistic style otherwise, it won't even hurt your speed too much. I'm talking from experience here. ;)
Wow!!
This is just what i have in mind...The last background of the alien is fantastic...How can I make something in this style?? with program should I use? Do you think I´m able to do something like this??
I really like it, and it´s the type of backgrounds wich I like a lot, similar to Sam & Max, o DOTT, ....!!
Thanks!!
Most cartoonists like vector programs like inkscape (free) or Adobe illustrator or even Flash. In Illustrator you can also import scanned sketches and convert them to vector.
But as I've started to post without the Alien Hominid screen... here's an example of a very geometric object with straight lines and bended lines. (which looks far from good).
So yes - you can bend lines to get a cartoony look, play with proportions and use bright colors.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/wackytacky.jpg)
Ok, Thank you!!! I´m downloading inkscape...When I have a new background, I will post it and ask about your opinions!!
Thanks!!
Hello!
I´ve been working with different backgrounds, and now I have a doubt, because I have two posibilities: one is make my backgrounds from 0 with inkscape like abstauber said. And other is like somenone tell about some program of vector, so I test one of this, with a photo made by me and I get a great result..But with this option I question if at the moment of include a character it looks bad because the bakground looks very real...I don´t know if I have explained well...
Some ideas??
Here is the image of the country I get with VectorMagic:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Campo2.png
Thanks !!
No.
Don't use a photo. Draw the backgrounds yourself. You can use the photo as reference if you like.
Why ? ???
Only in my dreams I could make a background like this one... :'(
My idea is to modify this one based on a photograph, is this right?
Thanks !!
Quote from: Jaime37 on Thu 02/10/2008 17:48:41
Why ? ???
Answer:
Quote from: Jaime37 on Thu 02/10/2008 12:46:41
... with this option I question if at the moment of include a character it looks bad because the bakground looks very real...
----
Quote from: Jaime37 on Thu 02/10/2008 17:48:41
My idea is to modify this one based on a photograph, is this right?
I won't modify it. I would either overdraw it or just use it as a reference like snarky said.
Also, photographs are very limiting. Any time you want a background, you'll need to find a photo that fits. This is especially problematic for transitions between screens, since it's going to be hard to find photos that look like they were taken in the same area (unless you take them yourself, I suppose, but that limits you to settings you can find in your vicinity).
In addition, photos generally don't have the qualities that make for a good background, such as an appropriate perspective, well-defined exits, a reasonable walkable area, and so on. This is especially true indoors, where it's almost impossible to get the angle you would want, and there's usually far too much furniture to move around easily in a game. Supposedly live backgrounds that use photos generally have a "frozen" look, and you might have to retouch away moving objects (such as people). Walkbehinds are going to be very difficult to define. Inventory objects and anything that needs to animate are going to stick out like sore thumbs.
Finally, no one is going to be impressed by how nice the background looks, because it's going to be obvious that it's a photo. And it'll just make the other elements stand out even more. In terms of aesthetic appeal, you're really no worse off with even a primitive drawing like the one posted here.
All right... I discard the idea of take photos for the backgrounds and started to do my own backgrounds...With a lot of help of Fawfulhasfury (Thanks a lot!) and a lot of hours also, I have made a background I really like. :D..I put it here to know your opinions and things that can be improved on this background:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Country.bmp
;)
Thanks !
Hey, you've improved a lot! This background would totally work for me.
If you need to improve it, consider the following things.
More details on the mountains:
Make them 3 dimensional or put them more into the background
Also the outline looks wrong to me.
(http://www.clipartof.com/images/clipart/xsmall2/14037_two_laned_road_winding_up_a_mountain_between_evergreen_trees_during_spring_or_summer.jpg)
Color as a perspective:
Things in the background are less bright than those in the foreground. You could try layers here.
More advanced would be warm colors in the front, cold colors in the back and so on.
Black outlines:
Always use a darker shade of the area you want to outline. e.g. try a dark red outline for the roofs.
I also wouldn't smudge the trees as you didn't smudge the other grass in that distance either.
Thanks !
I tried to solve this problems you talked about...
I put some different colours on the top of the mountains..Also I change black by darker versions of the colors in the background (in the houses).
The trees I don´t like how they were, so I taked them off.
Here it is: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Country2.png
And with the mountains, I don´t know if I really take the effect good or I did something wrong...What do yo think?
So wich of the two backgrounds is better?? :-\
Excellent stuff. Great progress!
I would only change two things right now:
1) Putting the sun in the corner of the page is a cliché, and makes the picture look childish. Typically, you don't need the sun in the background at all, so I would take it out.
2) I would put another line of distant hills between the windmill and the mountains, to create more depth. You could put some forest on those hills, too. Use the same technique for the forest as you used for the bushes by the house.
Oh, and you probably don't want to use pure black for the windmill, or the windows and other house details either. Dark gray is better.
Wow, a really nice background out of the blue!
The only thing that bothers me a bit are the wood textures you used for the houses - they look a bit cheap, in my opinion, because they kill all perspective you have built up and - well, they look cheap.
If you changed them to simple lines, like you have drawn the leftmost building, it would work perfectly for me. There are some flaws in perspective, like the window or the door on the left building, but I'm not the one to correct them, since I don't even know how to draw a cube right.
Very nice to see you are making such a progress - if you try an indoor scene next, I'd be very interested in how it will look like, I always found indoor scenes so hard to draw that I eventually gave up and decided to never draw anything again in my whole life. Really, true story.
First of all, thanks to everyone!
After read all your replys, I make some changes, like drop the sun, take off the black lines, quit the wood textures, correct some flaws in the perspective on the window of the left house, move one cloud, and add other mountains on the background to add perspective...
Now I think it´s a good background, and is ready for the adventure:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Country5.png ¿Don´t you think? :D
Tomorrow I´ll start with other background, maybe an indoor scene, I found very dificult to do but i´ll try to do it the best I can... ;)
Hi !!
I have a question... I talked today with my teacher of the project of the adventure, and he said that making my backgrounds take a lot of time... I think that I can do some backgrounds of my adventure, but not all, so I probably need to find others wich are ready to use...Is there some web where I can download backgrounds at 640x480 ready to use in my adventure? I think is really complicated...¿?
Thanks again !!
There are two series using AGS which have established their own universe and also provide resources for you to download: Reality on the norm (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/resources.html) and Maniac Mansion Mania (http://www.maniac-mansion-mania.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=77) whose starter pack and website have just been translated to Spanish, by the way, so that might come in handy for you.
There's also InstaGame (http://www.sylpher.com/ig/), but that one's specialized on science fiction, so you might indeed be better off with RoN or MMM.
Ok, thanks ! So anyone can use some backgrounds of 'Reality On The Norm' to edit them and take it for his own adventure based on anytinhg I want? I think that yes, but I want to be sure of this before use it...
Other thing, I make a new indoor background for my adventure, and I want to know your opinions and tips to improve it !! Don´t be so cruel with me !! :P
It´s here: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Despacho4.PNG
:) Thanks !!
I haven't checked, but did you follow the perspective lines (like shown earlier in the thread)?
1) I would suggest drawing a piece of the hallway instead of a black door.
2) Drawing something to fill part of the window, whether it because a fence 20 ft away, or a bush right up next to the house. It has the same problem as the door, in that a blank blue rectangle looks out of place.
3) You may (or may not) want to show less of the ceiling. Ceilings are fairly boring, although the light fixture is a nice touch.
It's good work, but it can be made better. Best of luck to you in the future and I can't wait to see what you complete for your class.
~Trent
It's getting better from day to day :)
I think your remaining problem is, that you treat every object, every part of the scene isolated. So you draw a room with the correct perspective. After that a cupboard in it's own persepective, the books and so on.
Try to see the whole scenery. Or could it that you like to work with the zoom tool and can't the other perspective lines?
Quote from: abstauber on Sat 11/10/2008 10:08:03
It's getting better from day to day :)
I think your remaining problem is, that you treat every object, every part of the scene isolated. So you draw a room with the correct perspective. After that a cupboard in it's own persepective, the books and so on.
Try to see the whole scenery. Or could it that you like to work with the zoom tool and can't the other perspective lines?
Thanks!
Yes, I like to work with the zoom tool :P ..I´m going to improve the scene with some of the tips mention above...Any more ideas??? ;)
Quote from: Jaime37 on Sat 11/10/2008 11:10:49
Any more ideas??? ;)
Don't use predefined textures.
Quote from: matti on Sat 11/10/2008 11:44:26
Quote from: Jaime37 on Sat 11/10/2008 11:10:49
Any more ideas??? ;)
Don't use predefined textures.
I don´t like this textures generally, but here on the carpet and on the roof I think they look quite good, so I leave it.
I make the window a little smaller and add some bush, like Trent R said. I think it looks better now...
Also make a higher contrast in the colours.
Added other light switch on the wall...
The result is here: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Despacho6.PNG
Do you think is better?? ::)
Quote from: Jaime37 on Sat 11/10/2008 12:41:51
I don´t like this textures generally, but here on the carpet and on the roof I think they look quite good, so I leave it.
I completely disagree. I really like the colors of the walls and the floor but the textures are terrible.
I agree the textures look kind of out of place. The rest of the background is fairly clean and uncluttered, which make the textures extremely noisy. The perspective is a little off in places (eg. the frames on the pictures on the wall should have straight bottoms (unless they aren't rectangular) since they're flush with the wall, and the wall is straight-on), but this is shaping up as a solid background :)
The ceiling in an adventure game, IMO, doesn't matter so much, unless the character will be interacting with the ceiling. So you might want to consider just making it a flat color so that it doesn't draw the eye away from the important bits... like the character and objects.
I think the main issue with the texture in the carpet is that, to me, it looks like you have a giant sand-pit in the middle of the floor and that the character is going to fall into it. It makes me want to say "Don't go in there, you'll fall into a cave!"...
Um... sorry about that, don't mind me. I've been awake for a very long time. Everything else is looking good though, you seem to be getting the start of a style.
Hi ! I´ve working on other backgrounds for my adventure... I make one I need about a country landscape with a river, and diferent types of grass and trees: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Lago4.png
::)
In the future I´ll want to add a character of a man fishing near the shore making some simple movement ;D...
How do you see it? Any tips to improve it??
Thanks !
You're getting better. All it needs right now is some line "cleanup" - as in, taking out the jerkiness. If you can make the outlines of the other hills look more like that of the one with the trees on it in the upper right corner, you've got quite a nice background. :)
Also, your spiky trees look WAY out of place due to their black outline. Use a darker color (same as the roofs in the earlier picture). Otherwise, I'm with Akatosh, this is a nice looking background.
~Trent
Hello! I´ve been working on the backgrounds for my adventure...first of all, I have this one wich seems to be the inside of a blue little house...What things could I put in it to make it looks more atractive ?? Some ideas ??
Here is the backgorund:http: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Casa_Azul.gif
Thanks a lot ! :D
Here is a newer version:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Casa_Azul2.gif
;)
It looks very nice, in my opinion. Now it depends on how much time you are willing to invest into the picture to add more detail, but the style is pretty coherent now (no textures any more), the floor tiling looks good, the ceiling lamp is a nice touch.
The only I'd change or improve are the colours, the palette seems a bit awkward.
Other than that, you're definitely heading in the right direction!
Much improvement here. The one thing that really seems to bother me would be the double thick outlines and dark color of the bed stand/leg things. All your outlines (except for the door--so it would seem) are single pixel thickness. So it makes the double pixel outline on the bed stand out.
Also what is the bright green thing on the wall? It looks like a window due to the inner depth on the right and top, sides. If it is a window, the depth should be on the bottom and right side instead; due to your viewing angle.
Hello... I like the style your going for... You have improved alot just over these few pages...
One thing that is bugging me about your image is still the perspective...
(don't get me wrong I suck when it comes to perspective, but reading up on it I have gained some rules)
Here is what I mean:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BG1(new).png)
Here the individual objects don't line up to one vanishing point. (As you can see via the extended lines) However the mat on the floor has a nice vanishing point (GREEN)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BG2(new).png)
So from there I drew a horizon line (PURPLE)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BG1(new)imp.png)
And then using the (GREEN) vanishing point, I drew perspective lines (RED) out from it in the direction of the objects and the walls.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BG2(new)imp.png)
From there I drew new object lines (BLACK)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BG3(new)imp.png)
As you can see the perspective was slightly off on some objects.. but it was the left hand wall that was the main culprit.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BG4(new)imp.png)
And here is the image on its own.
I hope this little tutorial helps you. (And I hope that there arn't too many images for the Moderators ;D )
I think (or at least I believed) he was going for the Dott style graphics with non square objects and walls.
That's why I felt it was 'alright', perspective wise. Sure the carpet (or wall) was a little off, but with the Dott style, I'll let it go.
If these are Dott style graphics, perspective on the walls and objects shouldn't matter too much just as long as it looks alright; so basically I wouldn't mind the walls being the way they are and you pull the top-left side of the carpet a little straighter.
Also the square garbage can doesn't need to follow the vanishing point since it was clearly on an angle. Only when it's parallel to the wall should that matter.
Oh and remember, the more strict you are with perspective: the bigger a character will look while standing at the back of the room versus the front. That is where sprite scaling comes into play. That's one reason why I think cartoony comedy games should just ditch perspective all together. That's my opinion though.
abstauber (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=35687.msg467775#msg467775) already pointed out that cartoony graphics still follow perspective.
But yes, you can still take liberties--just as long as you know when.
~Trent
Yes, they always 'could' still follow perspective. They could also make a cartoon character follow human anatomy down to a tee.
But it doesn't need to be. Look at Ben there, Dan that (a game I speak of way too often for examples). Sometimes bending the rules makes the game more interesting. A twisted environment in a cartoon comedy game can really add to the game play.
It can help take the tension off of the graphics (especially if you're not very good in general at drawing) and put the focus on the game play and characters.
But just like you said: Just as long as you know when and how. You obviously can't completely contradict reality and have every wall and object pointing in incredibly random directions. Some poor person's head could easily implode while playing. ;D
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Thu 11/12/2008 00:13:58
But just like you said: Just as long as you know when and how. You obviously can't completely contradict reality and have every wall and object pointing in incredibly random directions. Some poor person's head could easily implode while playing. ;D
And thus the conundrum of every media: familiar enough to relate to it, but different enough to stay fresh.
:)
~Trent
Hello, thanks for all your opinions, it really helps me !!
About the perspective in the last background, I like it to have a litlle 'informal' sytle, so I don´t care a lot about vanishin points...However, I make a litlle changes like Revan said, in the left wall. Also I fix the bed, resize the window, and add the view of the ceiling. Here is the result:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Casa_Azul_Dark.gif
;D
Other thing I like to mention is that I have "finish" all the backgrounds to start my adventure, so I need to find someone who wants to help me review all of them (a quick an final review) to do the last little changes, before I import them on AGS. (I have about 30 backgrounds).
:D
Thanks a lot !!
Anybody wants to help me ??
:'(
Hello, I have now ready my backgrounds, my only doubt is in this one, wich represents a cave. I take it from the web and make some changes, but now i see it too simple. Has someone some ideas to make improve it? I just tried to put something on the walls, but I can´t do it well...
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Caverna1.png
Thanks !
Quote from: Jaime37 on Mon 22/12/2008 19:03:57
Anybody wants to help me ?? :'(
Recruit-A-Team (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=30347.0)
~Trent
Quote from: Trent R on Tue 30/12/2008 19:57:17
Quote from: Jaime37 on Mon 22/12/2008 19:03:57
Anybody wants to help me ?? :'(
Recruit-A-Team (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=30347.0)
~Trent
Thanks for the answer, Trent R..It´s a good idea, but i think it´s not posible for me because I´m doing the game for a project for my university, so I have to make it alone; of course I can ask for help like I´m doing with some backgrounds, the sounds of the game, ideas, etc. but recruit a team it´s not posible...
However, thanks!
:D
Quote from: Jaime37 on Sat 27/12/2008 11:53:48
Hello, I have now ready my backgrounds, my only doubt is in this one, wich represents a cave. I take it from the web and make some changes, but now i see it too simple. Has someone some ideas to make improve it? I just tried to put something on the walls, but I can´t do it well...
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Caverna1.png
Thanks !
Hey, that cave reminds me an awful lot of Babar's game "Alien time zone" - in fact: It is the same cave! Now what?
Heheh...this is good!
My game is recogniseable enough so that any use of the cave backgrounds from the Insta-game pack (http://www.sylpher.com/ig/) is assumed to be taken from my game.
You make me very happy, kaputtnik :D.
Quote from: kaputtnik on Fri 02/01/2009 12:19:30
Quote from: Jaime37 on Sat 27/12/2008 11:53:48
Hello, I have now ready my backgrounds, my only doubt is in this one, wich represents a cave. I take it from the web and make some changes, but now i see it too simple. Has someone some ideas to make improve it? I just tried to put something on the walls, but I can´t do it well...
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Caverna1.png
Thanks !
Hey, that cave reminds me an awful lot of Babar's game "Alien time zone" - in fact: It is the same cave! Now what?
Yes, I take it from the instant game I think...But, what do you mean with: "Now what?" ?? To use a background wich is placed on the web for many purpouses is not bad, isn´t it ?
thanks,
Hah, I'm terribly sorry, Jaime - I really did not know that the background was included in the Instagame package! Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using it - and you have even improved and adapted it a bit.
Hi!
Now, I´m trying to find some sounds and music for my game, ¿someone can help me with this?
Thanks! ;)
Hey, you are brazilian right? (your image filenames are in portuguese) About your backgrounds, i recognize that trees from the lake image! Your first background, sorry, but it sucked. Your last background is good, but you can improve it a lot: removing the trash bin black outline, adding more objects to the scene like posters, a table or anything. Try to do it THEMATIC, that means, it is a children or a adult room? Man or woman? Add furniture and details according to these.
BTW: What the hell have a cavern, a lake and a room have to do with themselfs? Well, the game is yours, do whatever you want on it!
Thanks, but right now I finished prepare the backgrounds, and I don´t have more time to change them, so they are fine for me like they are... 8)
Now, I have my game at a progress of 90%, and I need some place where I can find tipycal sounds for it, and, also I need to know the names of the people who draw the backgrounds I have used in my adventure (I think they are from ROM resources mayority) to put them on the credits...
¿Anyone can help me with this?
Thanks! :D
do you want sounds or music or both? Quick google it and you will find ;)
I need tipycal sounds for the game (birds, door open, explosion,...) and a little music theme for the title screen and for the final screen with the credits. I need some place where I can find it, an d I need to be sure of they are free, and that I can use them in my game...It´s no so easy.... :P
As for the sound effects:
Quote from: Jakerpot on Thu 11/06/2009 16:02:21
do you want sounds or music or both? Quick google it and you will find ;)
Free sound effects are really easy to find. I can't give you any specific site though.
Quote from: Jaime37 on Thu 11/06/2009 22:45:43
I need tipycal sounds for the game (birds, door open, explosion,...) and a little music theme for the title screen and for the final screen with the credits. I need some place where I can find it, an d I need to be sure of they are free, and that I can use them in my game...It´s no so easy.... :P
I've found all the sound I needed for my game at http://www.freesound.org/
(this site seems to be down at the moment though).As for the music, try http://www.indiegamemusic.com/
That´s exactly what I was looking for, Thanks a lot !!