Adventure Game Studio

I posted this in the Games in Production but I thought I'd bring it into here for some more feedback.

These are my three versions (1st being the oldest).  What do you think of the third.  Does the perspective feel okay?  The first one (thanks to Scummbuddy's advice) just wasn't right and I made the second attempt which was closer ...


What do you think?

dm

Well your lines arnt consistanly Iso and the ship is way off perspective. But other then that it looks good...

yea the ship doesn't work at all... UNLESS! you make it work by just being consitent and making everyship look the same

if you have a 3d program i'd suggest making a VERY quick 3d model of the ship and then positioning the camera so it looks iso and then just trace the outline or keep it for reference.

yay, I like isometric :)

anyway, the ship looks like a decor piece...


I don't know how to deal with that, maybe eric's suggestion is a good onee?

i think the ship looks out of place because (as everyone mentioned already) the prespective of it is off.

but also, it's got so much detail and colours, highlits, and little bits, and the spaceport? its completely smooth and gray and that's it.  if the ship has highlights why doesn't the spaceport?   they look like they're from two different rooms.  i also don't the colours are the same as the original slave1, maybe you could mess around with the pallete and see if other colours look better..  but it looks almost exactly like it!! rock on!

also there are a LOT of stars that all look the same.  try making some bigger, and give them different colours.  

how long is this taking you by the way?  the ship looks pretty intensive.

taryuu - I've been working on the ship for about 4 hours.  I'm still pluggin' away at it.  It's funny that you mention the colors because I was just thinking that.  I'm going to adjust the pallette when I'm done.  I'm working on a perspective version of it right now.

As for the smoothness of the spaceport ... well it was just thrown in there.  The ship was the focus at this point.  I'm going to 'dirty' it up with some shading.  Adding in some lights, etc.  This is just the beginning!

The stars I probably won't change just 'cause if you watch Star Wars that's kind of how the stars look.  So I want to keep it that way.

Wanderlady - (from the Games in Production forum).  Your suggestions gave me the idea that I'm working on now.  So thanks!

Thanks for the crits people.  It's going to make this awesome when I'm done with it!

Oh... I must say that I realised of the perspective problems when people mentioned it. The main problem for me is the plain colours and gradients you´re using... Bobba is clearly made in a "amiga" pixellation style. The ship seems to be made in an old CPC, I just can see black, green and brown... I should add more colours, and a different gradient style, not so "monkey Island I", but more "FoA"...

I don´t know if I made me clear... Sorry  :(

But the way... I love it, I NEED to play that game!!! :)

Here is my latest attempt:

The glass is giving me serious troubles.  I'm working on that now.

I think I've achieved a much better perspective on it.  But I've also been staring at it for hours!  So please ... be honest with me.

How does this look now?

Note: I haven't yet worked/improved on the spaceport areas. They're still clean (a la Return of the Jedi :))

dm

:o Wow!
It's so much... bigger! And better too, of course, it's getting some shape :). I kinda liked what Wanderlady did in your Games in Production thread, with the double glass thing. Try that but hide the lines that are behind the front glass, and maybe make a curve/connecteion so that it gets some form. I really love the new version, and the colors too, they are more subtle and interesting IMO, less mechanic :).
How on earth do you get the patience/talent to work out all these little different details on it.. Absolutely great. It does seem to be a bit out of place artistically, but it's not a problem really, it just looks like it's from outer space, which it is so *thumbs up* :D.

Great job! You really work hard on this, and you pay attention to details and little things, which is the key IMO to making a game great, so keep at it :)

much better indeed

wanderlady did a real nice job on her edit too

(http://sylpher.com/kafka/junk/bobaeric.gif)

hmm seeing it again it isn't much but just a test

there isn't much you can do [at least i can do] so i don't think it matters much

the glass i mean

eric

Great work eric! I think this'll work, but maybe it needs to be more subtle if you know what I mean. More transparent, less opacity sortof. :)

This shape of the glass looks a little strange, it should be rounded up some more IMO.

New glass look:
(http://www.twin-design.com/boba/graphics/screenie8.gif)

The glass isn't squared off ... it's more like an inner-tube shape (set up and down).   I'm pretty pleased with how this looks.

dm

the reflections look odd imo. you should loose em where they touch the ship. know what i mean? and i think they need to be much more defined than that. idunno...

Wow... It looks perfect for me now (Well, I should centre the ship on the platform, it seems to be "1 meter or 2" to the "right"... But I suppose you want to finish your game... and you can´t spent weeks in just one background, so... Perfect for me!

Farlander - Thanks!  I think I might just work on the glass a little more and then call it done for the ship!  I'm anxious to start on the rest of the scene.  About the location of the ship.  I want to leave it where it is because I want to have the area where Boba Fett is standing in that picture as a walkable area so that you can't get behind the ship.  You see what I mean?

I gotta tell you guys that I'm really glad you're being so critical ... I can't tell you how annoying it is that most people I show simply say "wow, that's awesome!"  It's very refreshing to get all your input and crits.  I can't tell you how much more pleased I am with where it's at now as opposed to the first few versions!  That's thanks to your advice!

Rock on you guys!

dm

DM,

YOU'RE NUTS!!!

The knowledge that you're working hard on this, which is awesome,  makes it hard for me to give you a crit. However, I think you'd want to know.

The stars in the window shouldn't be there. Because of the angle of the ship, if you show the stars there, you'll also have to show that opposite part of the ship.

You are right in making the window less black, but maybe a little more. It's just too close to the black of space to give it  depth or separation.(I tried a real dark purple or real dark blue.)

And Boba's walkway isn't quite right, but I haven't really worked on it, so I can't give you anything accurate yet.

I admire you're working hard on it. I only said so much because I've been looking at it for some time in order to help out.

Regardless, Good Job.

I can't sleep attempt:
(http://www.twin-design.com/boba/graphics/screenie9.gif)
I've added in a transparency to the glass (showing the other side) so now you can see the inside of the cockpit (vaguely).

Wanderlady - Thanks for your advice!  I really mean it.  With the transparency on the glass, do the star reflections still look wrong?  There's stars completely surrounding the ship, so it should be okay eh?

When I start in on something like this I tend to not sleep until I get something I'm happy with.

thanks again!

dm

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Wed 20/08/2003 08:42:28
When I start in on something like this I tend to not sleep until I get something I'm happy with.

Ah, the perfectionist's way...

Well then, the only words I have are to either get some sleep, or just take a  break. Come back to it tomorrow or a in a short while and see which one pleases your eyes the most.

I agree with Wanderlady, it's hard to comment knowing you're busting your own balls on this.

Anyway, what's bugging me is the platform itself. The front (far left) and the back (middle of the screen) of the platform don't run parallel, which they should in an isometric view.

Edit:
Man, it must be one of thos optical illusions thingamabobs. I checked it up close, and they definitely are parallel. Weird. I guess no comments then.

DYDO - I noticed how they looked off too!  It's pretty wierd.  My next step on this is to add all the little details to the space port.  I'm going to do that today and should have something to show a little later on.

Unless anybody has any major problems with this version I'm going to consider it complete and move on.

Version 10:

EDIT: Wanderlady ... I just realized something.  You thought the stars on the glass were being seen through the glass huh?  They're supposed to be reflections :)

dm

I think it's great, DM, but I would say that your stars in the background are a little bit samey. Some variation in star sizes/brightness is normal, no? Or maybe that's an atmospheric effect?

But the rest of the pic is great. You don;t want to do all the art for my games, eh?  ;D

DM,

Congratulations on the improvements, I can see how you can appreciate the critics since you really made it look a lot better. I haven;t posted yet myself but I messed some stuff myself I was too irritated to correct it(kinda big) so I did it all over.. argh the work.
Anyway, perhaps you should look at the shadow?It's on both sides? Suggest either two light sources or it's wrong(I think)
I think the platform looks off because if you trace the upper edge to the left, the egde on the left side of the ship is a bit higher, this might cause the effect and perhaps the strokes on the thing itself are not well alligned to the edges? It does seem somewhat of an optical illusion.

Some detail: maybe the blue strokes can get an edge(yelow outline) or anyway make it so the right on has a side aligned to the lower edge of the platform. Now it's just a finished brush stroke.
Keep at it :)

ssh -  he said he wanted to keep the stars like that because it more accurarly reflects the stars in the movie.  i'm with you tho.

i thought it was supposed to look like you saw through the window and the stars should look like they were on the other side of the glass... man... but i like the newest version very much. now there is no doubt in my mind about what is supposed to look like what. i must say, you are one excellent pixel pusher!

-patrick


----
"not the rug... man..."
-the Dude

SSH & Taryuu - I added in a few bigger stars ... just for you guys :)

Fizz - Thanks for the praise.  I don't know that I've ever spent this much time on one image before (that wasn't work related)

Latest Version:
Note: I just noticed that the images are showing up slightly darker on the forums than they do in Photoshop.

Aside from some work with lighting, how does this look?

dm

(http://www.twin-design.com/boba/graphics/screenie4.gif)

(http://www.twin-design.com/boba/graphics/screenie11.gif)

I think everyone can see the improvements have greatly improved the drawing, very well done Darth :)

m0ds

Agreed. The last update is incredible, Darth! All those details on Boba Fetts ship... Just great... I played the demo and liked it, but now I know I'm going to enjoy the full game even more...

Final Image:
Unless anybody has any major problems with this one, I'm going to call it a completed image and use it in-game.

Thanks to ALL of you for your constructive advice.  It really made all the difference.

cheers,
dm

Love that image dude! You're on a role! :)

Holy shit poop, that's great!

that's a naughty word! You're supposed to say "holy poop"...

I have a problem with the latest version. Sorry.  :-\

Why did you change the brightness of the stars below the platform? It's though you shaded them, which isn't really possible. It really was the first thing that struck me, when it popped up on my screen.

The brightness could be lower due to other light sources, for instance around those two lanterns, you might not be able to see stars as well. Just a thought.

I faded the stars out as they approach the horizon.  I added in a gradient to simulate an atmosphere.  This space port is located on a planet actually.

I thought the stars should fade out as the horizon lightens up.

Does this bother anybody else?  It's just a layer mask and I can remove it easily.

Also, I was going to add a halo of light around the lamps, but wasn't pleased with how it looked.

dm

I think the image is sweet!

Yes Darth... It also "annoys" me... (Using your words, some little pixels will never upset me... ;)) If you´re making some kind of gradient, it´s too "noticeable "...

IMO.

Wow, first time i've checked this thread out. You're latest version is a HUGE improvement over the original, really detailed work. It has a very star warsy feel to it. GJ.

That looks pretty awesome...accept for the char He looks stubby and such, maybe your style but that kinda looks like a trick or treater   :-\

Now I see it a little bir empty of stars... Anybody else agrees? I don´t want to bother you, but changing the sky is so easy... That I wanted to put my opinion.  :)

Wow. I really agree, HUGE improvements! I also agree with farlander. The stars should be much brighter IMO, you can't really see all the nice detailed stars unless you turn up the brightnes on the monitor.

But you are not supposed to be focusing on the stars... maybe so if you are just looking at the artwork right here, but not if you are playing the game.

WOW Nice Job DM. Where you when LEC needed help on Star Wars adventure games in the early 90's?

Good Job, I really want to play this game badly.

JD

Good job, DM.  The difference between your original and updated version looks like the difference between an original Sierra adventure and its VGA remake.  Excellent work!

i think it looks great. I wish i could improve upon my graphics like that. geesh, it takes me long enough for so-so looking graphics. keep up the good work.

shawn

Amazing job! Love it!

yup awesome work!!! great improvements and good atmosphere in the image now

Man, you progress is quite remarkable, as someone said here, it's almost a transition from an original Sierra game to a remake.

You said the spaceport was on a planet, if you're unsure about the stars fading, you should check if the spaceport is in an urban area, if it does, you could add also some 'light pollution' to the scene to make the star fading more real. Light pollution is a faint gradient from below simulating bright lights coming from below.

Anyway, your image is ready and set to be included in your game, my congratulations again.

The space-craft scene is impressive, DM...really nice progress you have there...well done.

Thanks for all your praise guys and thanks to those with the crits too! (http://www.twin-design.com/friendsmb/graphics/smilies/smilies_smile.gif)

With all of your advice this pic turned out awesome!

I'd go through this will all my backgrounds for the game but then you'd not want to play it 'cause you'd already have seen all the bgs!!  (http://www.twin-design.com/friendsmb/graphics/smilies/smilies_wide.gif)

cheers,
dm

The evil smilies!!! :P

I have, in light of a suggestion by earlwood (who didn't like my character) begun work on a new style of character.


NOTE:  I am shifting the game into 640x480 mode to accomodate the larger (but vastly more detailed) characters.  Not to worry ... I'm still going to be using the Slave I I worked soooo much on!!

Let me know if you think this character style will work ...

How can I improve it?

cheers,
dm

Improve???

Very nice!
Only problems I have are the legs that look too much like two tubes. And maybe slim down the helmet 4-6 pixels? I think using 640x480 as resolution in an isometric game could pay off. You'll get nice, crisp lines.
mmmm...lines...

mmmmmmmmm :P I love the new look! 10 times better, how will the animation work though? Like the first character?

I want to keep the head wider than it should be.  Because I'm kind of going for a more 'charicature' look rather than a realistic look.

The legs definately need some work.  I was noticing that when I was posting.  But it was going on 5am and I'd been working on it ALL night and I just wanted some sleep (http://twin-design.com/friendsmb/graphics/smilies/smilies_grin.gif)

Animation ... I'm going to go all out and do some kick ass 8 frame animations for each view.  And I think I'm going to do 8 views too ... so it'll take some time and be tough, but I want to do it!!  

I'll post more soon!

Thanks guys!

dm

Great work, DM. He seems to say, "Don't mess with me."

The legs...the tube look may be because of the leg length. If you made them longer it could fix that. That is, if it works into the new size restrictions.

As an added point, just want to say that it's awesome that you're working hard on this.

I dig that cape.

The new style rocks and matches the more detailed BGs much more, but the old style was awesome as well, dm. Are you planning to redo all of the characters that you created in the old style to this new style??

I would LOVE to see this new style of characters in your game, but it would be a shame to see all of the characters and animations you previously did go to waste  :(.

Wow. Great job on both the BG and the character. The new style character is a big improvement on the old. Great job!

Wow!  Thanks guys!  You're making me (http://www.twin-design.com/friendsmb/graphics/smilies/smiles_embarrassed.gif)

Here is the newest version:


I'm really getting down with this pixel art stuff!!

What do you think?  I tried to make his legs less 'tubular' and lengthened them about 10 pixels.  I also added some more shading.  It's funny how the color for his clothing is so similar to the background of the page!

cheers,
dm

Great! The shading, especially, make it seem a bit more realistic. Wonderful job, can't wait to play thie game. :)

It looks good. Though he is short and looks a bit like a midget. Maybe make his legs longer...

Try to "ruffle" his pants over his boots. There should be some creases there. Looks a bit too tidy.

It loos almost like him from the movie but the helmet is too big.

Hah!!

cheers,
dm

Hah is right.
Boba's secret passion.

I spent a lot of time on this ... and there's just something about it that doesn't work for me ...
(http://www.twin-design.com/boba/bobafett4.gif)

I like the upper body animation ... there's just something about the legs that doesn't work for me.  I think it's the frame right before full (forward) extension of the legs.

(I know the cape needs to be animated still!!)

Suggestions/Comments??

cheers,
dm

The arms seem to be coming wayyyy too much in front of the body.  Do you have a mirror you can "walk" in front of.  Your arms will not do that to its extreme. Combined with the feet turning outwards during walking, it actually still looks like he is dancing.  

Sorry to come down so hard, I dont mean it.  I would just try and keep the arms and feet moving as straight up and down as I could.

But it still is a very nice animation!

QuoteSorry to come down so hard, I dont mean it.

Not at all man!  This is what I wanted.  I want to make this the best it can be!  I'll work on moving the arms less and making the feet kick out less.

Thanks for the input!!

dm

Another thing I've checked in your animation is that the torso is not moving while he walks, you should add the detail of the torso rotating according to the shoulders movement, if you do that maybe the arms won't appear to be moving extremely far. Otherwise, it looks good.

Darth... do ye use the "front" frame in the walking animation? I think you should remove it, the characters makes a strange movement... It seems that it freezes or something.

But I like the overall concept, it is very smooth and professional.  :)

QuoteDarth... do ye use the "front" frame in the walking animation?

Do you mean the full extension of the leg?  I have fixed that :)  I've made some changes but am not quite yet at a point where I want to post.  I'll post some more later!

QuoteBut I like the overall concept, it is very smooth and professional.  :)

Thanks!

Sidenote:  dm will be in the Bahamas for the weekend so I'll post the updates upon my return.  It's time for lovely señoritas and fruity margaritas (or Piña Coloda) on some tropical beaches!!  Hopefull Isabel won't still be lingering!!

~ darthMANDARB

Nice sprite!

The the legs looks a bit wierd because he never lifts his feet from the ground. When a foot has been in the rear position you lift it, bending the knee a little on the way forward, until you strech the leg out and put the foot down in front of you.

As someone noticed, the standing straight frame is not usable in a walkcykle, one of the feet is always lifted when passing the straight up frame...

Check som walkcykles out on the internet, there are loads of them! I think there is a link to a very nice tutorial made by Igor on walking in the tutorials thread...

What can I say, except AWESOME!

As for what's wrong with the animation, I think it looks odd that his legs go sideways as if he's zig-zagging instead of walking straight. I also think his legs should bend a bit more.

Great work!

DM: Overall it's looking fantastic!  I'm very impressed.  However, I think one problem with the walk cycle is that it doesn't look to me like he's actually lifting his legs up off the ground.  It looks like they're just sliding around like the moonwalk or something.  The only other think I can think of is that the chest plate looks a bit flat to me, like his chest is smooshed a bit, but honestly this could just be how Boba Fett is supposed to look :)  All in all, keep up the great work.