Adventure Game Studio

Creative Production => Critics' Lounge => Topic started by: Estaog on Thu 03/03/2005 19:56:40

Title: New Room
Post by: Estaog on Thu 03/03/2005 19:56:40
Hey guys what do you think:

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Cute.gif)

I tryed to get a new style, using tick lines for the outlines, and normal lines for detail. I was aiming for the "simple" look, and it turned out quite nice, in my opinion. C & c and edits are welcome.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: DoorKnobHandle on Thu 03/03/2005 20:01:44
ah... now thats something to start with! not bad, much better than ripping monkey island graphics, isn't it..?

I kinda like the thick outlines actually, it adds to your personal style.

Check how "deep" the cupboard goes to the left. Make it shorter.

Then add details, shading and of course something behind that window...

Also check the proportions of your door. It has to be higher and thinner in my opinion... But see for yourself...

Oh and you may consider making that tarpet a little smaller, since there are not many tarpets out there as big as the whole room...
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Problem on Thu 03/03/2005 20:27:26
Good so far. The left door of the cupboard looks bigger than the right door, just shorten it a bit.
The perspective seems to be a little off here and there, but that might be the style you were going for. It doesn't look bad this way. Some shading would be nice, but not too much.
The room looks a little empty, some furniture could be added.
Otherwise it's okay, just a matter of detail and shading.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: big brother on Thu 03/03/2005 20:50:04
Maybe try using colors that have lower saturation levels?
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Estaog on Thu 03/03/2005 20:51:19
Edit:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Cute2.gif)

It is supposed to be off perspective, its part of the style.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Ozwalled on Fri 04/03/2005 02:49:58
It's fine, if sparse.

Of what it there, I agree that the door looks ill-proportionned. It looks odd in relation to both the height of the cabinet and the height of the walls. Make it taller, and it'd look better, IMO.

Also, the door might do well with a better handle/ knob.

Oh, and the right part of the carpet is only darker red halfway down in the boarder.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Krazy on Fri 04/03/2005 03:30:20
That's looking MUCH better, nice to see you taking some time to make original graphics. Nice wacky style too, like DOTT.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Peter Thomas on Fri 04/03/2005 07:21:04
Yeah, tanker, this is GOOD STUFF. And I mean that. I really love the slightly wacky perspective. It's really comical - like krazy said, a bit DOTT.

I guess it could use some furniture. Maybe a table or a vase or suchlike, but definitely keep this style. It suits you!
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Estaog on Fri 04/03/2005 14:39:10
Edit:

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Cute3.gif)
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Privateer Puddin' on Fri 04/03/2005 15:01:29
Quote from: big brother on Thu 03/03/2005 20:50:04
Maybe try using colors that have lower saturation levels?
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: DragonRose on Fri 04/03/2005 16:04:39
This is just a suggestion, but the outlines are very jagged. If you smooth out the pixels a bit, or anti-alias them, I think this would look AWESOME. And I really like the lock on the door.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Neil Dnuma on Fri 04/03/2005 16:17:28
Here's a quick edit with slightly less saturated colors, a fixup of the cupboard and a longpig thrown in.
(http://img144.exs.cx/img144/5900/tankerroom9ig.png)

PS. The longpig was just because I was bored and didn't want to go back to work.

EDIT: Didn't see DragonRose's reply, but it might be good idea.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Khris on Fri 04/03/2005 19:28:17
Quote from: Problem on Thu 03/03/2005 20:27:26
The left door of the cupboard looks bigger than the right door, just shorten it a bit.
Actually it looks thinner, as the left door should be effectively wider in 2d. (check Neil's edit)

You're aiming for wackyness, ok, but the bed is too far off perspective, especially the pillow.
What makes DOTT's backgrounds so great is that you can still sense the correct(!) perspective underneath the very wacky lines. Everything is deformed and twisted but the proportions still feel right.

Back to your pic: you should really get rid of the dark triangles in the ceiling's corners, no lightsource would ever produce these shadows.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Damien on Fri 04/03/2005 20:24:27
Here is my suggestion to you regarding your future artwork:
1. Study this tutorials
  Mr. Collosal's tutorials (http://sylpher.com/kafka/tutorials.shtml)
  Hobbes' background tutorial (http://www.unosar.com/tut1.html)
  Minimi's tutorial (http://minimi.spijbelaars.com/solidus/tutorials.html)
  Increator's tutorial (http://www.hot.ee/increator/draw.htm)
  BigBrother's tutorial (http://herculeaneffort.adventuredevelopers.com/tutorials/ian/background.html)
2. For more tut's check out the Tutorials thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=600.0).
3. Practice and make new art with what you've learned.
4. Post here when you're having troubles with something or don't know what to do next.

Creating your own artwork requres a lot of patience.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Jay on Fri 04/03/2005 20:43:38
Quote from: Damien on Fri 04/03/2005 20:24:27
At first I wanted to do a paintover of your BG, but then I thought: Why should I spend more time on a paintover then you spent on the actual background? Did it take you more then 15 minutes? I doubt it.

That was pretty mean. Tanker's BG looks good, and I like the style.
Is that a lock on the door? Doesn't it need a doorknob too?
I agree with Neil's edit on the cupboard size.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: MrColossal on Fri 04/03/2005 20:48:28
Way to be a huge jerk Damien... How do you know how long this background took him to do? Man, that was one of the assiest things I've read in a long time...

Here is one of tanker's older backgrounds:

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=19330.msg235627#msg235627

I think this one is a big improvement and looks much better and has some style to it. Sure wacky angles isn't the best style but the thick outline looks cute.

My suggestion to you tanker is move onto another background, don't spend too long on this one trying to prefect it, you'll get better as you work on different, more varied backgrounds and then you can see what you like in the newer backgrounds you do compared to the older ones. Good work so far.

Eric
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Ozwalled on Fri 04/03/2005 21:38:31
Longpig aside (and oh, I do oh so love the longpig, Neil), I think that Eric's got some good advice there. This new style seems to be nice and palatable enough, so try to run with it. Try to make a bunch of backgrounds wth it. For, 5, 6, ten maybe. You'll really start to see the practice paying off as your ideas come out onto the screen.

Keep it up!

I do like the new lock, though. Still, I'm bothered by the lack of a doorknob or obvious door-openning handle. And if it's menat to be a prison room, you'd think the lock would be on the outside.  ;)

As far as the bed goes, it's a little stiff. It's an opprotunity in the picture to get some more flowing shapes and get out of the rigid lines of the wall, door and cabinet, so why not use it by having some sheets, blankets hanging off the edge of the bed or at least some wrinkles/ loose folds on the surface? And to further spruce things up, some curtains could be added to accent the window and get some additional organic shape into the picture.

(Ugh. My art teacher once said I should have been an interior decorator. Damn her.)
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Khris on Fri 04/03/2005 21:50:46
Yes Damien, you are being very mean, I think it took him at least 20 minutes.

Seriously, this is the critics lounge.
And there's hardly anything to c&c in this bg.

I feel the bg is screaming: paint over me! So my lazy creator doesn't have to do the hard work!

edit:
I prefer people to tear apart my posted artwork, it motivates me and makes me be like "Just you wait, I'll show you I can do better!".
Encouraging replys to posted crap always make me feel like people just wanna be friendly.

It's quite interesting that good stuff almost always gets nit-picky replys focusing on minor not-so-well-done details, while overall crap makes people go like "keep it up!"
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: MrColossal on Fri 04/03/2005 22:08:10
I'm confused by you khrismuc, if there is hardly anything to crit what are all these posts doing in here along with a post by yourself offering crit?
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Khris on Fri 04/03/2005 22:27:16
I wanted to point out that this background is obviously not finished, of course you can c&c a lot, but, as Andail put it in his Read-before-posting:

* Consider if you actually need criticism. Some people seem to jot down just anything, publish it here and expect a step-by-step tutorial on how to improve it.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: lo_res_man on Fri 04/03/2005 22:32:15
I agree o great and mighty moderator. khrismuc and Ã, Damien were been VERY rude. Tanker has come a long way in a very short amount of time. His sense of colour has improved, his perspective has improved. While at the same time he has ALREADY created his own style. I say kudos to tanker. For hard work, his own style. And for a desire to improve. I say we give tanker a round of applause! [claps hands in circle ;D]
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK TANKER!! 8)
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: TheYak on Sat 05/03/2005 06:34:04
Taking up the advice of not playing moderator, I've wiped my post.  In summary:

Why respond with unhelpful insults? If you think there was no effort made, ignore the thread or mention that it could use more work before C&C.

Tanker: You're getting some of the fundamentals and I'm glad to see you're doing your own artwork.  Don't fall into the trap of using techniques to disguise shortcomings.  It may look cliché but using perspective or isometrics can be entertaining and give a more polished look.  1-point-perspective is a pretty quick study and all that's required for your recent two rooms. 

I whole-heartedly agree with Andail's recommendations concerning the skewed lines.

Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Damien on Sat 05/03/2005 10:28:12
To keep it short:
I'm sorry you took my comments that seriously. I edited the unhelpfull parts out of my post.

And Yak, don't take up that prejudice because of one person.

EDIT:
I never said his BG or his style look bad, or that I won't help 'because my art is superior to his'. Also, I never mentioned the perspective, I don't have a problem with it being "wacky".
Sorry for sounding harsh, but emotions are hard to convey through text.
What I wanted to say is that a 10 minute modification could make it 10x better looking, I don't mean a modification of his style, but simply adding more details like:
-wood boards where the walls meet the floor - 2 lines & a flood fill
-electrical outlet - 1 rectangle, 1 flood fill, 2 dots
-bigger windows - 5 lines, 1 flood fill
-cracked walls - few freehands

Some bigger mod's:
-maybe a lightsource inside the room, at least it seems it's in the room looking at the shadows, then you could also add a switch to the wall
-if you want to stich with the lightsource coming from the outside, there would be a highlight of the window shape on the floor

That's all, take it easy.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Huw Dawson on Sat 05/03/2005 10:55:31
Although I think Tanker's room looks a bit... Primitive in my eyes, I think that it actually looks decent. I cannot ever get rooms to look good, and I think that room is downright respectable, espessially for what some of you would consider a "n00b". Being unfriendly to someone who's trying to improve - even by very experienced members of all people, is downright unfriendly. I personally think that that room could be improved dramatically. Maybe a picture on the wall, or some form of foreground piece?

Tanker, what do you use to make these backgrounds? Just interested as a fellow forumer.Ã,  :)
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Estaog on Sat 05/03/2005 17:16:25
After reading all of your posts, i came up with this:

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Cute4.gif)
(As you can see i havent totaly forgotten about monkey island.)

Oh and thanks for sticking up for me you guys, i really hate it when i try hard and people still mock me.

And Huv i use ArtGem for the detail and Paint for the tick lines.


Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Khris on Sat 05/03/2005 18:50:24
The pig's shadow should look like this:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Cute4_km.png)

As the window (sun) is the only lightsource, there can't be any distinct shadows outside the beam of light that's shining through it.

Also consider that a background pic should only consist of static items. Did you paint the doll, closet doors and wires on a different layer?
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Al_Ninio on Sat 05/03/2005 18:52:33
The poster on the door doesn't quite seem to fit the background's style.
also, the bed's shading is incorrect (i.e. lighted part is facing away from the window and shaded part towards it. Should be vice versa).

Nice, background, overall. Very cute style.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Ozwalled on Sat 05/03/2005 19:19:36
If you're actually keeping that longpig in there, consider that it does clutter up the walkable area of the room more than a bit. Also, it doesn't really fit the thick outlie style.

And the light switch, I'd say should be coming from a bit lower in the wall (assuning that's what it is). And it wouldn't be likely to be looking like that, either. From the opened light switched I've seen (i.e., minus the faceplate), they more or less look like a rectanglar hole with a vertical piece of metal in the middle; and in the middle of that piece of metal is the plastic switch. To see for yourself, either unscrew a lightswitch faceplate and take it off, or better yet, take a run down to your local hardware store.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Andail on Sun 06/03/2005 13:08:01
Quote from: YakSpit on Sat 05/03/2005 06:34:04
I'd always thought it an US stereotype that this part of the world contains extremely tactless and rude people:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/TheYak/tactless.jpg)
Now I'm reconsidering taking up this prejudice.

Hm, please don't vent more US prejudices in the future. I just hate them.

Some people were rude, yes, and they were being told off by a moderator.

And to explain the clause which I put in the rules years ago, about how you need to put down a certain amount of time and energy in your artwork before publishing here.
Some people won't bother to c&c their own pieces, so they post them prematurely and let other people suggest all the improvements. This is often the case with very small children.

So, is this the case now? Nah, not really. Without exaggerating Tanker's achievements so far (the way I find  lo_res_man and Yakspit are doing) he's displaying a certain dedication and will to learn and improve.

So, to break down:
1. Don't be unnecessarily rude
2. Don't play moderator
3. Be careful not to publish your artwork before you've given them lots of time and scrutinising.

As for the piece now.

Skewing lines is a good way of making a background less stiff, but I would recommend slightly bending them instead of just tilting them.
The outlining is too thick. You could also try using outlines in darker shades of the colours they surround, instead of just pitch black.
Establish vanishing lines and correct your perspective. I know you wanna go for the whacky cartoonesque style, but believe me, learn the perspective and your backgrounds will improve by 150%.

Please do these adjustments and get back to us.
Good luck.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Estaog on Mon 07/03/2005 18:36:10
Final version:

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Cute5.gif)

It looks more wacky now with the new outlines, and its really the style im aiming for.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Ubel on Mon 07/03/2005 23:22:56
Not final version yet! The pig's shadow is still not correct.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Peter Thomas on Tue 08/03/2005 00:18:08
I agree with Pablo :) I think this is the style you should be aiming for, since it seems to come naturally to you, but that shadow is not right and really does grab more attention that it should because of it. All that needs to be done is make the darker parts of the shadow the same colour as the lighter part, and it'll look fab.

Also, I'm not 100% keen on the door-poster. It's a really different style to everything else in the room, and it actually took me a while to figure out that it was meant to be a part of the picture.

Apart from that, I'd say you've found your niche :) I like the monkey-island doll idea, I think that's cute. A sort of "easter-egg". Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Ozwalled on Tue 08/03/2005 03:39:08
Again, I stress: if you are going to adopt a style of "thick outlines" then try to stick with it. The pig, the lock thing, the (lightswitch) and the doll have thin outlines. Theposter doesn't even have one (not to mention that yeah, it looks way out of place). And that shadow -- as the others have said: PLEASE fix that. It jumps out at me as being really bad, and takes away from the picture immensely.

I'd also use a slightly darker outline for what I'm guessing is a sheet hanging out from under the bed's blanket (I'd somehow not noticed it before now, but I find the lack of contrast makes it look odd).

And again, considering the walking space. Is there even enough room to have your character walk around the pig to get from the door to the cabinet to the lightswitch?

Please don't consider this one finished -- it still could really use a little extra work to finish it off, whether or not you post the progress here.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: Estaog on Tue 08/03/2005 14:47:24
I fixed the shadow and fixed the sheet. Wait, you guys know this is just for practice right? I am not going to use this in games or anything, just for practice. I also found this toturial :
http://www.geocities.com/pscribetute/index.html
Will this help me with my progress ?

Oh and i didnt think it was necessary to post the image here, as i only changes the shadow.
Title: Re: New Room
Post by: aussie on Wed 09/03/2005 13:40:41
Yes, the tute will help you greatly.

I've never seen a better one!

!!1!!1111!

;D