"Old background - How should I make the Backgrounds better?"

[voh]

Concerning Maniac Mansion Mania, we're not talking about other people's stuff here, just yours. Why would you even use that as an argument? What other people do with their games doesn't have anything to do with what you're doing. "But theirs is worse!" isn't an excuse.

Also, where Steel Drummer might have gotten the idea that you're not even trying to improve your art, is quite simple. You posted that greenified background here already. That was almost a year ago, and that specific background is still the same. All the advice you got back then has been ignored completely. If you still don't understand why people are wondering whether or not they should even try to assist you, take this as a hint.

If people give you advice, try to work with it and listen to it. Don't just ignore it and keep asking the same questions over and over (concerning the same backgrounds, even).

[Dr Fred Rubacant Edison]

First off

This is the old Background I deleted all the old ones from Photo Bucket andi gess the new one pop in that place on the old post


Old one



you're not even trying to improve your art.  Yep no  improves here and That was almost a year ago, and that specific background is still the same. All the advice you got back then has been ignored completely.

are you making this up.

New one




If you didnt see it a year ago dont post about it.


Whats the  Subject anyway   Hmmmm   Old Background How Should i make it better.   Hmmm   OLD it says OLD   



If people give you advice, try to work with it and listen to it. Don't just ignore it and keep asking the same questions over and over (concerning the same backgrounds, even). WHAT


I did the fixs that they told me about.  What  questions do i ask ?.

I was using Maniac mansion mania as a example.

And when did i ignore anyone here.  Do you see the paint overs i did.

Like

This



to this




All the advice you got is ignored completely. Yep   



You people are never happy  and if i did repaint  it all over you   still would not like it.   

I'm not posting any more pics here.

[Steel Drummer]

You didn't really change any of those backgrounds, you just changed what was in the picture frames, essentially. It doesn't matter if you post any more, because you seem to be ignoring our advice, and you hardly change the backgrounds after months of us telling you how to improve them. I'm sure there are a few people who gave you suggestions for improvement about the perspective in all of your backgrounds- did you take their advice? No, you just threw a hissy-fit at them and flamed at them for criticizing your art. You need to learn to accept criticism, and until then, I suggest you stop posting your material, and read some other peoples' C&C posts to see how they handle criticism.

[Dr Fred Rubacant Edison]

Tribes 2 mod

[lo_res_man]

A man who acted noobish for all his life, torturing other users, not listening to advice, and doomed to wonder the universe, seeking but never finding the answers he so desperately craves in.... THE AGS ZONE!
( I mean what is up with "Tribes 2 mod" that is the worst single post I've ever seen in my life. My English teacher would beat you over the head with a frozen ham.I mean it doesn't even have a verb!)

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

If you can't post respectfully don't post in this forum.  This goes for everyone.  I can personally see that he's made some effort to improve so I think some of you are just being bandwagon-hoppers.  I will not tolerate slamming people in this forum, I hope that's understood. 

If you have nothing constructive to offer DO NOT POST HERE.


I hope that's clear.

Rubacant,  you're welcome to continue posting your work to this forum but Illustrious has made a good point.  You should look at your work so far and then at some of the perspective help you've been offered here (there's a good deal of it) and see if you can see what we do.  I pointed out that the drum was out of perspective in the image I posted, but if you don't understand why things look out of perspective then you should say so, that way I or someone else can make it clearer to you. 

The blue wall definitely shows some improvement, but when I say it's too dark I'm saying the individual colors in your gradient are so close together as to be virtually indistinguishable.  This makes them redundant.  When you design a gradient there are a couple of key factors you need to take into account:

     A)  Is it necessary (this is the first thing you should ask yourself)?

     B)  Does it have a pleasant color distribution (ie, are most or all of the colors in the gradient easy to the eye and does it clash with the rest of the room)?

     C)  Is lighting an issue (if you want to properly light a room you absolutely must light the gradient with respect to the light source(s), otherwise it looks odd)?

     D)  Does the style of the gradient fit the surface (noisy gradients work fine for stone but don't look great for wallpaper)?


Taking some of this into consideration I made an edit that may help you see some of the problems in the image. 

1.  Corrected perspective of walls, door, window and barrel using the white vanishing point at the top.

2.  Reshaded the wall with a less rough looking and lighter gradient.

3.  Reshaded most of the room, getting rid of the gaudy black outlines.

4.  Added shadows below the sconces, just to the right of the barrel and to the right of the curtains, creating a better sense of depth. 

5.  Redrew a simple barrel that better fits the room perspective.

6.  Removed the other pictures and the clock because they were too blurry and looked odd.



This shows the vanishing point lines.


I did not fully light/shade the room for the two sconces.  You can assume there are light sources on the ceiling  or you can darken the areas farthest away from the light sources to create a proper sense of shadow.  I also did nothing with the metal door aside from make it stand out against the wall and I did not detail the doors aside from drawing them with the vanishing point in mind (they are also rather tall compared to the center door).  The barrel also needs work.  I didn't do much with the wood panels aside from shading them around the doors, so those need work also.

Have a look at this and try following the vanishing points in the gif to see exactly what I did. 


Edit:

One more thing to consider is the sudden change of material and color from the back wall to the sides, even though the perspective is right this causes the room to look like the left and right walls don't 'fit'.  To fix this I did a really quick and dirty example of carrying the back wall panelling around.  This makes the walls look much better, so try and avoid walls that have different textures in one room.

[Illustrious]

Yes ProgZMax has made a great edit in terms of showing you what you need to do to achieve a nicer looking background.

Get to work and let's see what you got!

[Dr Fred Rubacant Edison]

DO you think im having a hard time cuz im using Jasc paint shop pro. DO you think theres a better Free program I can use.

[Tuomas]

Well, the program doesn't make you better, but some things might be easier to handle, say layers for example with a good program, even though you can do masterpieces even with mspaint

[ManicMatt]

I havent used paint shop pro, but if it's an easy program to use, then I say stick to it, if you're fluent with it, theres no need to complicate matters with a new program. Once you've reached the point where you find yourself wanting more advanced features, then a new program is advised.

[Dr Fred Rubacant Edison]

Here is a start of the wall color is this better




I having hard time with gradients. I cant get a good  gradient effect going and get them spredout more

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Yes it looks fine.  Pay attention to my entire post because fixing the perspective should be your first priority.

[Illustrious]

Ok, i have said I have given up commenting in these backgrounds but i will go back on my word.
Whats a minute here or their of my opinion to try and help someone.

Paint program
It shouldn't matter which program you have if you have learnt the uses of all the tools, whatever paint program you use, study the documentation that comes with it to learn most of what there is to know.  A shortcut by diving in makes learning how to use things properly a very difficult thing. Equally, search for 'jasc paint shop pro tutorials' or similar on google to find tips and tricks...


With your new edit
The fact of the matter is, you have simply applied a gradient effect to a wall.  The end product is predictable.
To improve this background you must first go back to basics and fix problems with the perspective.  Right now you have far more important things to worry about than a gradient on the wall.

The corners of the floor is a problem for you, take another look at ProgZmax's edit and study what changes in the animation he put up. He fixed the perspective.  

EDIT
Posted to find I've pleasantly happened to reiterate 'Perspective'

[Khris]

Paint Shop Pro is just fine; I'm using version 7 and it's perfect for stuff like those backgrounds.

Btw, the Maniac Mansion Deluxe backgrounds (which the ones in this thread are based on) don't strictly follow one-point perspective. As long as objects don't look horribly off, they can safely invent perspective.

[Dr Fred Rubacant Edison]

Heres a new updated version  working on the side walls and perspective. I did copy and paste and door and window just for a start off fix. I didnt want to copy and paste and whole background. I all so tryed to redraw the barrel still need major work.

[Dr Fred Rubacant Edison]

I added the middle door and lamps having hard time adding light effects to them. Started on the clock Basic outline. Is this the right perspective for the clock.




New version




I think one of  my major problems is perspective. I just dont see perspective to well. Is there a web site i can see  perspective templets.

So one background at a time starting with this one.

[fouridragon]

Hey, Rubacant. This place is where you put stuff to be critiqued. It's (in my oppinion) harsh sometimes, but it's better than never improving. Here's an idea. IM me at fouridragon@hotmail.com I can tell you about a little art theory and that kinda thing, I'm not good, but I've read and understand what has to be done... Besides I am looking for buddies here on AGSforums.

[InCreator]

Okay, remember than if I sound harsh, it's for your own good. I like the background you're going at, even though Maniac Mansion style sucks hardcore, in my opinion.

I made 3D version of this room to show you how lights work. Also, in 3D, perspective is almost always right.
Look here.



See, in your room, you have 4 lights and also there could be light coming from window. I didn't simulate light bouncing off walls and floor, but simpler version of lighting is still visible. Around the lamps, everything should be lighter and brighter. Also, brighter sides of things must be those that face wall lamps, not any other.

The labels I added to image are what you need to pay attention to, if you want to get atleast some quality in your shading.

If you want people to edit your backgrounds, save them as PNG format, not JPG.
Why? Because JPG compression ruins pixels.

The clock is not right. It's at the center of the room, so we shouldn't see it's right side, or atleast not that much. Maybe only a tiny pixel, not two. Why isn't clock face round? This is abnormal.

The light bulbs inside light cast shadows mostly downwards (actually down, left and right), why did you make shadows go right I don't know. Simply pull shadow down a bit more, and less right.

Your barrel is not cylindrical shape. Watch my barrel, it's a cylinder. Your barrel looks more like it's been smashed with a sledge hammer. That is so because it's too wide, making it narrower will fix the problem. Why do you need a metal barrel at the end of the corridor anyway? Who keeps gasoline or oil (that's what metal barrels usually contain) inside house?

Since the lamps and windows are on room sides, the middle part should be darker. Though realistic lighting isn't quite the style you're using.

All questions end with an question mark (?), like

- How should I make it better?
- Is this the right perspective for the clock?

Paying attention to your grammar also helps with paying attention in life overall, so noticing how things look like and memorizing details. You have probably no idea how much it helps to draw better!

[Gilbert]

I think one of  my major problems is perspective. I just dont see perspective to well. Is there a web site i can see  perspective templets.

I think Prog's edit with "vanishing point lines" should help a bit. Also check the Tutorial Redux for further info, for example, dkh's tutorial is a good start.

BTW, increator, shouldn't the asterisk the '*' symbol? '?' is the question mark.

[Steel Drummer]

I won't say any more in this thread, but I have one last suggestion for you, Rubacant. Don't post every single background you've made in this thread, okay? It seems like you've done that. Just take people's suggestions from one background and try to apply them to your other backgrounds.