Hi everyone!
Myself, with the help of 6-7 other individuals are currently in the early stages of a game called "Science Fiction" (creatively enough), which is a spoof of 40's-50's early sci-fi and 50's media in general, though the game is not necessarily supposed to be a comedy.
Anyway, part of the style I was going for was ALL grayscale (with the exception, you'll note, of the lights on the GUI). I understand the risks of doing this; because of the small palatte, colors could blend, be hard to see, etc...
I would like your comments and criticism on this piece:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/scifioffice1.jpg)
It was created and rendered in Blender, while the character was created by taking video of a person walking and treating the necessary frames. The character seems a bit small for his position on screen, but that's not an art-related problem. The GUI is not completely finished, but it gives a pretty good idea of the direction.
So...
What do you think?
Here's some stuff that stands out...
The floor is very bare. It would help greatly if you included a potted plant or some other office fodder somewhere.
I understand the need to leave out shadows, but you still need to pay attention to light source. You've included one brightly lit window and a patch of light that suggests another, yet there's only one light being reflected on objects in the scene.
The textures on the floor are a bit too tiled and repetitive. Blender has some excellent texture noise functions that can give you a nice variation.
One final nitpick: The paper sitting on the floor next to the trash can just looks wierd for some reason. I think the balls are just too similar to one another. Maybe you should deform each of them seperately and put them in a more natural position, not stacked together as if someone deliberately put them there. Unless, of course, they did. Otherwise, they should all be farther away from the bin, as any paper that missed the target from that desk chair would have either bounced out or arced across the top and rolled away.
Other than the above, I think that you did a fantastic job on the composition. The scene is very moody, though a bit more contrast may help out with that.
I like it. My only complaint in the modelling would be that the drawers to the right of the door seem huge. Perhaps they're intended to be, but I think the handles are still very big. For large drawers you usually have one handle at each end or one long handle going from one end of the drawer to the other. Not a single big one in the middle.
More importantly I'm wondering if you wouldn't be better off reducing the game resolution to 320x240. As it is now, the hi-res backgrounds and lo-res character and interface really clash. If done properly, you could end up with a much more consistent style as nice as the late Sierra games (PQ4, Gabriel Knight). You'd have to put less detail work into the 3D modelling, and depending on the file size of the game it could also make distribution much easier.
I also think some more to fill up the floor would be a good idea...I'll look into that.
I've tried some different stuff with the lighting...I changed the type of light used as the sun, so it looks a bit different now...there's only supposed to be one light source; I got rid of any other sources. Oh, and I moved the paper around a bit so it looks a bit different.
The person used in this was not video taped on very good equipment; we'll be replacing it with higher-res characters later. I would also think that 320x240 would be better, but there are a number of in-game cutscenes involving actual video, and I just feel that the clarity in these videos requires a bit of a higher resolution. The interface does clash a bit...maybe I could make that higher-res as well?
Well, thanks for the comments so far. I'm working on a revision, and I'll post it when I feel it's done. :)
It's very nice, but there's too much empty space. Maybe reducing the size of the room itself would help. :)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/render2.png)
Here's an update, minus actually being "in game". I changed the lighting and scrounged up some better textures for the rug and floor, as well as adding a plant to the foreground.
I still have some empty space to the left, but I couldn't stick the potted plant there, because it blocked too much. Making the room smaller may be the answer, but then I run into some problems with the camera field of view.
I'm mostly happy with it, but if anyone has some more suggestions feel free...it can only help. :)
Thanks much,
- Clark
Quote from: LimpingFish on Mon 17/07/2006 21:59:19
It's very nice, but there's too much empty space. Maybe reducing the size of the room itself would help. :)
Actually, neutral space is perfect for a 1950's sci fi setting. It actually gives the player some suspense.
I'd love to play this!
looks good. heres my paintover.
(http://imagesocket.com/images/render2b2cc.gif)
I think it needed some GIesque shadows, so I painted some in on photoshop. Also added some volume light from the window and little dust particles.
The shadows under the chairs and the light rays do seem to add something to it...I'll see if I can't do a few of those myself. I haven't really considered touch-ups after rendering, mostly because of my horrendous painting skills, but it might be good.
I love the idea of a monochrome game, and the 50s concept suits that perfectly. The screenshot is nice and the bookcase is particularly good.
The lighting is a bit of a problem though. You seem to have a spotlight casting a shadow on the wall, and a soft-fill light illuminating most of the room. The trouble is that your soft fill-light casts no shadows, so the near side of the desk is very dar, but the floor beneath it is well lit.
I would suggest turning shadows on for your soft light. I'd also suggest you think about faking GI in the render rather than in post. Add a gentle soft-light with no shadow on the far side of the back wall to simulate the reflected light.
Also, if you want areas of the room to be in murky shadow, set up a negative light to keep the corners of the room dark and mysterious.
Hope that's helpful,
-Ali
Just a minor thing:
The sun wouldn't produce those skewed spots on the wall/shelves, they look more like there's a very bright lamp directly outside the window.
Just change the spots back to like they were in the original version.
I actually prefer the new shadows. Technically, they ARE wrong, but they come off as quite dramatic. I would soften the edges to them, tho. All the other changes are great, and the plant adds a nice sense of the room dimensions.
Nicely done. :)
At the risk of digging up an old thread...
I've been doing more work on ambience and such, trying to make it look more realistic, and here is the result, thus far.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/sfRoom1render5.png)
It uses the Ambience effect in Blender. It looks much brighter than the original, and I prefer this one in many respects, but I'm still a bit torn. The grain looks pretty good, but being a comedyish game, I wonder if it isn't a little too serious looking from the grain. I think the grain can be fixed up a bit; its just going to take about an hour to render. :P
Oh, and yes, there does appear to be something funky going on with the plant's leaves; I don't know, maybe I'll blur it in post. ;)
Anyway, comments on the result? Which of the two versions do you prefer? And, looking at this picture, does it look to dark to be funny?
Very nice. I still think there is a bit too much empty floorspace, but I really like this version. :)
About the plant, some depth-of-field would come off quite nicely.
If you can't do it in Blender, just render it out as a separate image and blur it in Photoshop.
Again, nicely done.
Looks much better. However, windows don't light every wall the same and typically only one wall gets the cast shadow from the panes. And maybe the far left wall is a bit too bright. And the fan too. It might be correct value wise, but it stands out too much.
And I don't think the plant is that big of a deal. What kind of texture is on it? I'd just leaf (hah, get it?) it a flat color.
Everyone seems to be mentioning the excessive floor space in your backgrounds, and I agree.
If it seems most of your backgrounds have the same problems, you may try cropping them to fit 640x400 instead of 640x480. (Make sure you click on the aspect ratio correction option.)
The widescreen format might also help sell the idea of it being a movie.
Examples:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/NOIR.png)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/NOIR2.png)
Also make sure that some of the background/foreground objects are not completely visable (like the plant.) It gives the background a sense of realness.
Hmm...
The widescreen does sound intriguing, and I'm sure it would help cut down cutscene sizes, if only slightly. I'll look into that.
Also, I'll consider the shadow of the window panes...when I rendered this, the light source outside the window was very close to the window...backing it up would change that, but I'm not sure if I will yet.
Thanks for the comments so far. This particular scene is very important, as it will dictate the artistic approach for the rest of the game as well.
I think widescreen would look nice, though all the films noir I can think of were 4:3. Nevertheless, widescreen does say 'film' to most people, so I think you should try it.
Again, shallow depth of field increases the 'film' look but is actually incongruous with noir style, which used deep focus. I'd say, go with what looks nicest. Also, there are a number of ways of tricking depth of field in the newest version of blender, but it's easy enough to blur in photoshop.
The Ambient Occlusion made the scene a bit grainy (which I like) and brighter (which isn't as nice). You can set AO to 'add', 'subtract' or 'both' in Blender. if you set it to 'both' then it will brighten and darken areas. You'll have to increase the sampling or decrease the power of the AO, or the grain will probably look nasty.
If you want to get rid of excess floor space, just don't light it (or add a negative lamp) so it looks black - very simple, very noir.
Another option about limiting empty floor space or changing the lighting.
You may want to put a small lamp on the desk and a little bit larger one on the file cabinet.Ã, Maybe put a floor lamp in the corner between the clock and the window, but it might be a bit much.Ã, Then either put heavy curtains on the window, or if the story permits, make it at night scene.Ã, This would eliminate some of the unusual lighting coming from the window.Ã, It would also allow you to only light the areas of interest in the scene, but give the feeling of a larger room.
Quick and dirty image reference:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/lamp.png)
I deleted the default lamp, however the camera keeps putting that bright spot in the front.
(Maybe because I didn't assign materials to anything?)
I put an area lamp inside the lamp shade and the shade is 50% transparent.
I didn't use an external lamp because I was having trouble balancing to two light sources in the five minutes I took to put this together.
(Disregard the blue background. I didn't bother to change the world.)
With some subtle ambient lighting and using mostly in-game lamps as the light source, it may solve both problems.
Just like not everything has to be fully in the camera frame, not everything has to be fully illuminated.
Unfortunately, this has to be a day shot, and I've rather got my heart set on a light through the window. :) Lighting has been giving me trouble since I started, and I decided that I'm more inclined to go with what looks right, not what looks correct, if you get my meaning.
Alright...again, I appreciate all the comments; they've helped immensely. I've tried to clean up that pesky empty floor space and add a bit more to the room. I am here to provide some closure...here is, probably, what the final render will be pretty close to:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/sfRoom1Render6.png)
I'm extremely happy with this, especially when compared to the original room. I'm still going to add a few tiny things (I'm thinking, like, a bobble-head on the edge above the door, or maybe a coatrack in the corner by the poster), but otherwise I'm content.
Thanks again everyone!
CMK2901,
If this is supposed to be a day shot, then your lighting is waaaay off. It's very obvious that you use a single point light, not far from the window outside - it's obvious from the perspective lines produced by the window frame shadows.
I don't know what you use for rendering (didn't read the whole thread, just skimmed it through), but you should consider using a large rectangular light (if your renderer supports it), that emits paralel light rays. It'd be even better to use a Sun lightsource (again, if supported), because that would produce really paralel rays.
Right now it looks like the light is coming from a strong spotlight (maybe a car), about at the level of the horizontal crossbeam of the window frame. You cannot possibly have a shadow from the sun on the ceiling like you have in the image.
Lighting aside, nice image. What do you use for modeling/rendering?
HTH :)
Hey,
I use Blender. It renders in color and then I put it in greyscale. I know the lighting is not very realistic, but I think that the correct lighting would look less...dramatic, I guess? I can agree with the shadows on the ceiling, though; I could probably fix that by slanting the light downward a bit.
CMK2901, try using a lightdome instead, if you can. (Be prepared, though, that it'll take a lot longer to render than with a single light source.)
I don't know if Blender supports automatically creating a lightdome, but you can do it manually. (I don't use Blender because I always get upset when I try to find some setting :) - for me, it's very counterintuitive.)
I just checked - Sun is there, so you could try with that, too. If you want to set the mood to be dark, put a tree (or something else) in front of the window (outside), to cast shadows. To me (just a personal opinion), the current lighting is very unrealistic. (Unless you have a huge, brightly glowing UFO landing in front of the window, in which case you nailed it. ;) )