Hey Agsers,
i made this in a couple of minutes, and now it's started to grow a hold on me! I'm planning to sharpen it up, but maybe you guys can help aswell.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/SoLongAndGoodnight.gif)
Cheers,
Fb.
PS: I don't really know what i want from it,
i just need to improve it somehow.
If the bottom thing is a coffin, then it needs to be in the shape of it and perspective would help. And please, no textures.
The flower looks odd with no detail, compared to the textured bottom thing. It's not a matter of 'sharpening up the object'. It's about detail. And typically, stems don't get larger as they go towards the end, but the reverse of that.
I do, however, really like the typeface you used. The phrase works well with the drooping flower, and the 'coffin'.
Quote from: Scummbuddy on Thu 10/11/2005 05:11:58
The phrase works well with the drooping flower, and the 'coffin'.
Thanks, it's from My Chemical Romance's video for it's new song 'Helena'. In the (aussie version anyway) clip, the scene is a funeral, and the incredibly powerful song (if you're a MCR fan you'll know what i'm talking about) goes well with the setting, especially the expression of pretty much everyone at the funeral, especially the protagonist of the clip, has the same incredibly depressed, love deprivated look about them.
I agree, the flower needs more detail, and (though it obviously isn't shown), i wanted to give it an olden-time sort of setting, hence the reason the casket looks more like a box then a coffin but, i will help.
Scumm, perhaps you could do a quick version?
That text sounds weird if you read it by what the letters actually mean and sound like.
MCR get boring really fast. As for the image, use a different font and do what everyone else said.
There's nothing to crit here: so-called "flower" is simply a red and green blob and coffin without textures and cross would be simply 2 rectangles.
I don't understand what do you want to achieve by posting this here.
suggestion: Don't post "timekillers", they won't neither give you any useful feedback nor help you in learning to draw.
Next time, draw long and hard, try to squeeze everything out of your skills. Then we crit and you improve.
the -a- flower, I can't reallly figure out werther it's a rose or a tulip. Seems like a tulip, but the, can I say anathomy is more like that of a rose. I dare you to google some images that may give advice on the details. It's rather big compared to the coffin though. Which brings me to another subject:
The coffin looks more like two blocks side by side. My advice is, do as Ido so very often when I don't know what something really looks like, google an image...
I must agree with Haddas on the text :D
InCreator, there is something to crit here. Read the above and stop stupid accuses. Sorry, but I for one am here to advice others to do something differently in order to achieve better results.
But Tuomas, I think Increator has a point, actually.
If Flukeblake couldn't spend some extra time on this picture, why should a lot of forum members do it?
Flukeblake should realise that there is very much he can do to improve his art without turning to an internet community. One simple thing would be to spend more than a couple of minutes on his pictures, another would be to return to it the following day to see if he can find something to improve himself.
Unfortunately, Flukeblake has a history of threads containing only these two-minutes jottings, none of which he returns to in order to improve it according to other people's advice.
General:
I think two basic rules must be set for CL, as well. I think they should be:
-Post if you can't go on without help, (so, post finished work) or...
-Post for help if you are in an early stage of your work and going on this direction could became a problem if the beginning is not appropiate (Which means: Squetches, choose of colours before starting the AA, etc, etc...)
I am quite sure I haven't behaved as a moderator because I am not directly refering to this post, but as CL in general... I'd be glad to discuss about "my" rules for CL, and if some news must be adder, changed/removed in a propper thread... ^_^
Fluke: Doing something for killing time is not good. The first step before catching the /pencil mouse and starting creating is sitting and think "What should I do? Why? How?" I personally have a big image full of pixel art, I go there and add an object when I want to kill the time, you could do the same.
I see also problems with the size (Is this extra resolution needed?) Many times people go for high when they could do the work more easy and with more appealing results in low.
I see problems about the composition. Make a quick pencil squetch before to see where do you want to locate it all. The coffin is too low. The perspective is bad there, go and google for some perspective tuts. The shape of the coffin is simple illogic. Seems it is made for a 5 meters high person. Have that in mind before drawing "How is the thing I want to paint?"
Google for references and have them in the same painting program to see if you are doing it ok. Everybody does that at some point, almost nobody draws from pure scratch.
The same for the rose. As someone pointed out, it's not clear what is it...
Hope it helps.
I did a quick paint-over:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/sonicg.GIF)
Seriously Fluke ...
I actually respect that you stick around and keep on trying. However, you need to start listening to the advice that is given (some you do listen, some you ignore).
Unless the rose is supposed to be flat like that, you really should spend a tad more time on it before posting. Even if it was just a "timekiller".
There really aren't any strict rules about what you can and can't post, but still. It seems like you do these things intentionally to irritate people?
I was about to answer in his behalf, but then I realized I have nothing to say, as I read his post fully through:
Quote from: Flukeblake on Thu 10/11/2005 04:46:34
I'm planning to sharpen it up, but maybe you guys can help aswell.
Yeah like doing it for you like Darth did... we can comment, but now I agree with others. Don't wait for others to sharpen something up for you that you never even tried to do well :P lame
theonly thing to improve this picture would be time, ability to draw, reference photos.
now go away you son of an newt!
My advice was far from "stupid accusation" and it was given as artist and 2-year-resident-of-CL, not as a moderator-wannabe or Anti-flukeblake-club-member.
Tuomas acted like FlukeBlake was a jew and me an angry skinhead, waiting for flame/fight where it wasn't even close. That's the modern mentality what has been discussed a lot in Gen-gen.
Truth is, I repeat myself again...
Dear Flukeblake.
Now that your bad reputation is leaving you and AGS members are starting to forget things, please consider taking things seriously.
You have a helpful community of very skilled people here... why waste it?
Try to draw really well, and post only when you feel that you're in point where you could really use professional help and you are ready to accept and use it well, too. Not taking others seriously ends up with people not taking you seriously. Don't take offense about what I said, just open this image of yours in paint software and show what you're really made of.
This is what I would do instead of you.
I believe it might work.
And, InCreator,as you are suggesting, I misunderstood what you meant. We got mixed up and I don't want you to be blaming me for what I accidentaly blamed you for. I mentioned I was sorry, and struggling with this s.c. "hostile" atmosphere I got confused. I appologise InCreator for interpreting your post as one of those hostile, and for probably pointing it out too sharply, which I didn't wish to do.
And for this post not to be in vain, Fluke, I suggest you to answer these threads unless you just want to pull our noses, because that's what it feels like. And I've been triyng to be on your side for as long as I remember :P
Fluke, might I suggest you start with low-res art. All the stuff I've seen of you are extremely large for a 320 240 game or are made for a 640 480 (or above) game. Try making some sprites for a low-res game and post them after you feel you've done the best you can. The thing is, high-res drawing is for most people a lot harder to do than low-res, especially people who have less experience.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/jsRedwall/dray.png)
Try making something with about that size, try to read some tutorials and do your best to make up for your 'damaged' reputation.
QuoteI apologise InCreator for interpreting your post as one of those hostile, and for probably pointing it out too sharply, which I didn't wish to do.
No need to, no offense taken. (To be honest, I'm always surprised how fragile others are and how easily offended, even in internet forums).
I'm just tired (and I believe many others are too) of this "FlukeBlake's case" and I'm trying to help him, suggesting how to act. It may be harsh, but seem right to me (there was time where I was on his level too, though I wasn't that radical).
Any trial to enter conversations in gen-gen usually ended with Shabazjinkens hammering me, so it was quite difficult to learn to act in place with so many different cultures and views.
My way out and to the arena (though I'm still quite nobody, I think) was the Critics Lounge. Helping people was both fun and educational for me aswell... and here I am.
I think that FlukeBlake needs similar anchor to attach himself into community. Best way would be releasing a game, and prefreably something that gains at least a bit of popularity.
But if he chooses CL, there's some unwritten (and written aswell) rules here.
Mozesh, what are you dragging me into this for? :P
I have kind of an idea, but I'm not sure how well it could be implemented in the forums. I have seen it done at other forums... Even Game Maker's forums have something very slightly similar, or at least they used to.
I think FB's prob is that he wants people to see his stuff. He might not need critiquing (no one critique me for this statement, but: how can you critique a green line being eaten by a red blob on top of a wooden cigar made by Jesus?), but he wants to show his stuff off anyway. Is there a way that we can have a "personal page" on our profiles where we can display pictures, and maybe where people can comment (kinda like PM's mixed with guestbooks that everyone can see)... It shouldn't take up too much bandwidth, since all our pics on this site are remotely hosted, and there probably wouldn't be too many posts so it wouldn't eat up much space there... I've at least seen profile pages that offer a picture that's like an enlarged avatar, where you can post a pic of yourself or whatnot (ie GM). Then, if you had something interesting for people to see, you could link it from your sig.
That might serve a dual purpose:
1) There would be less crap put in CL.
2) There would be less people arguing about it.
Quote from: Redwall on Thu 10/11/2005 21:49:19
Mozesh, what are you dragging me into this for? :P
Sorry :P , just one I came across :=
Unless he's specifically aimed for irritation and controversy, I can only imagine that the time-killing image took more time than he'd care to admit. I, myself, am guilty of making comments about my own work to conserve pride. Many of us have made similar statements: Whipped this out real quick; didn't have time; screwed up but was too far into it to correct; don't like it much; didn't care about it. They all beg the same question: Why did you post it for critique then.
Maybe I'm only actually speaking for myself, but it takes me a great deal of time to end up with a mediocre image and it's embarrassing. It's much easier on the ego to state that I was rushed or place the blame on something beyond my control, particularly when I see drawings and their corresponding fixes posted by the likes of Pessi, Dan Clarke, and Loominus.
If this is the case for you, Fluke (assuming you bother to read the replies to the thread), you might try something along the lines of:
"This didn't take me that long, but I don't really know how I could improve it by spending more time on it. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but a couple pointers and especially diagrams, would help me improve quite a lot. Thank you in advance for whatever advice you might have, and I'll be sure to use what I'm able to in this or future illustrations."
I refuse to believe you wouldn't get a more supportive response from everyone if this were your attitude. It can take years to make a movie, 2 hours to watch it, and 30 minutes to write a lengthy review of it. It can take years (even a decade) to write a long novel, yet I read it in a couple of days. By this measurement, if you truly spent only a matter of minutes on this, I don't see how it merits more than 5 seconds of reply. For those that can make an excellent background, illustration, or sprite in mere moments, they've undoubtedly invested many hours, days, or years honing their technique. I'd suggest you be willing to do the same if you'd like them to give it their full attention.
QuoteMany of us have made similar statements: Whipped this out real quick; didn't have time; screwed up but was too far into it to correct; don't like it much; didn't care about it.
For an image in CL, it's either a pose
or truth. This means that we're not totally statisfied with it and so we posted it for further help.
Well said, yakspit...
As always in a thread created by fluke:
1. He's not getting what he wants, because he doesn't know what he wants.
2. He dissapears for a month or so, only to show up later with a new thread.
This thread, as most threads by fluke should be locked.
Never post time-killers. What do you expect from people twice your age, or even more, to do? There's no reason to help you, while they could do that.
THINK!
PS. No comments on the picture. He has enough feedback. But I second Espers idea. There should be a place for posting pictures, or anything, not for critic but just to show off. But it will be WAY OFF-TOPIC to make this forum deviant.com. With a lot limmitations it could work...
Sounds like a waste of CJ's bandwidth to me.
I've just read this entire thread and it's good reading.
I agree with alot of the points and I would also like to see more actual adventure game related stuff in the CL.
BTW Darth M: I really think your paintover has improved the picture...
Just stop posting in Flukeblakes threads if you dislike them. All this attention is just making it worse... Especially since he never checks back himself and thus all this critizism just goes over his head... The fewer people who post, the less damage is done....
But wait a second... I just failed to follow my above stated idea. It's a paradox! This is all too confusing...Ã, ::)
I see a little of costume in the "leave the kid alone if you dislike him" here...
I see a lot of crtis, good crits, talking about composition, fonts, colours, painting procedure. Even the "don't make timekillers" is good, if you see the implicit message, it has some advises about what and when to paint.
The bigger "crit" about Fluke's attitude (Yak's rule of three, if we spent 2 minutes in criticising a painting made in 2 hours, we would spend 5 seconds in criticising something made in 5 minutes) has been perfectly sensible and polite.
The "it hasn't possible been a timekiller" thing is something I've never had in mind and it's been instructive too, thanks Yak.
So, I don't really see the spirit of bringing back the deffense of the guy and the subsequent polemic when he hasn't been attacked.
And now, Fluke, I'd really like to see the improvements you've made to that image to see how CL is managing for helping people.
well, i guess if countless thread-lockings, tongue-lashings and burnings-at-the-stake have taught me anything, it's that i shouldn't post stupid threads. I try to stick by that when posting threads in any forums as much as possible.
I mean, wake up people. Beat up on Flukeblake day is freakin' over alright?
Hoping that this post will help redeem myself,
Flukeblake
PS: I AM NOT A TROLL!
Posting an update of the work would help...
Fluke, if you wanna be respected, you gotta put time in your work... Don't just throw some patterns into two rectangles, make some pencil lines and write some text, actually spend a few minutes drawing details.
Not so much of a "leave him alone, he's just a stupid kid" as a "leave us alone unless you feel like putting some effort in!"
Quote from: King_Nipper on Tue 15/11/2005 15:35:37
Fluke, if you wanna be respected, you gotta put time in your work...
Like your signature pic now, if you made it yourself good job it looks much better.
Quote from: Mozesh on Tue 15/11/2005 15:56:48Like your signature pic now, if you made it yourself good job it looks much better.
Except it's 60 pixels tall, when the limit is 50.
But in all the sig rule breaker's defense ... the limitations are only located directly above where you enter the information in bold print. They
are pretty hard to find.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Tue 15/11/2005 16:29:35
Except it's 60 pixels tall, when the limit is 50.
Sorry, this is little offtopic, but I think the size limit should be changed to 60 pixels, since that's the size most people seem to prefer in their sig pics. Just my opinion.
My signature has been 96 pixels since forever (and it wasn't even a banner, just a stupid guitar pic), and nobody told me anything so I didn't realise I was breaking any rules until now ???
But anyway, my crit is to at least do something about all the double pixels on the rose.
the sig was actually made by Thomas VoB.
Sorry. I'll save and make smaller.
BB, I'm not sure how "internet stuff" works... I've been able to program on a computer since I was 5, but I still haven't fully explored all the ins and out of the internet, so I don't necessarily know how bandwidth works... So forgive my squirrely ignorance, but doesn't having the pics remotely hosted on Imageshack or what-have-you alleviate some (or most) of the pressure on CJ's bandshite?
Anyways, Fluke, beat up on you day not only is not over, it does not, in fact, exist. Listen, bro: do YOU think it's a good idea to have a place on the site where we could showcase our work? I mean, after all, Critic's Lounge is a place for people who want constructive criticism on the road to working on something to complete realization in the best way they can make it. I really don't see how this applies to said green line being eaten by The Blob while hovering directly over previously mentioned Cigar made by Jesus, Inc... It seems as though you just made a completed image and wanted criticism on it, not to help you out in making it better, but just so you could showcase it and have people tell you what they thought about it.
Appropriately constructive criticism WAS offered, most namely a couple about the shape of the coffin. I also believe you could have given shape to your rose petals to give it a bit more noticeable form, rather than having made it so blobbinly. Have you altered the original image yet, and if so, why not show it to us?
Fluke, why don't you get a deviantart-account and link to it in your sig?
That way, even more people can admire your made-in-a-few-minutes-timekillers, and you won't completely ruin your already bad reputation here.
THat's not a bad idea, and = the best of both worlds...