Hello ! :)
It's been a while since I posted something in the critics lounge forum. Now I'm back with an animation I've done for our new project.
I drew my main character in Photoshop, and also made his walkcycle (not that good), but then I found out about Moho and wanted to try it. I like the result, but I feel there are some errors, and the movement isn't as realistic as I intended to. Maybe the head and arms bounce too much ?
My first try with photoshop (8 frames):
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/walkcycle_heros.gif)
And my new attempt with Moho (16 frames):
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche.gif)
Constructive C&C pretty please :)
WOW :o, those are awesome! I like the one you did with MoHo better than the one you did with Photoshop. I think the 1st one would be better if you slowed it down but otherwise they are both great!
The moho animation is amazing!
Did you make it in moho from scratch?
I didn't find nothing wrong in it except that his knees are too high and the pocket on his trousers is too bright.
Excellent work!
The animation in the second attempt is very smooth and life-like. The only criticism I have is that his arms seem stiffer than the rest of his body. They look like they could use some more bending at the elbow joint in my opinion.
I actually like the first one better!
I like the cartoony look to it (just personal preference).
The second one is great! But I think the first one would fit better into an adventure game. Of course, that would depend on the background/art style.
The first one, being hand animated in Photoshop looks awesome! Some slight glitching going on in the face (might just be the GIF compression).
Some work could be done on the shadows too! They seem to jump a bit.
Great work!!
Thanks for the positive comments! :)
Rap4Life42o : You're right, the animation's too fast.
Damien : I first build the character in Moho, then added textures made in photoshop, which are fixed to bones.
Penguinx : Yup, maybe I should rotate less the upperarm, and bend more the forearm.
Darth Mandarb : Aha ! That's interesting. I didn't expected somebody to like the first one better :D.
Well, I prefere a smooth walk animation, but as you say, maybe the style will not fit with backgrounds very well. I could probably make lines darker... And make the shadows less blury...
I made a quick exemple of what it would look like in one of the backgrounds (which is not finished yet) :
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_bureau&chars.jpg)
I can´t really add nothing, I just write to encourage you this looks fantastic. I agree somewhat with DM, you can´t compare a 16 frames animation with an 8 one. I think that the PShop one could look so good as the moho one with more frames, and it looks more "Adventuregraphikish"... :)
Yes, I like the first one better too. It seems more natural animation, though you did a great job with MoHo. Although moho is easier to make quicker different kinds of animations on the character, I think the photoshop one fits better to the background.
The moho version, looks like blended into the background, and it really looks like the same style as the background, though in these adventure games, it's nicer to use a little different drawing style for the characters. Maybe it's just the blacklines. Maybe try to make the outlines of the moho version darker, and some black detail lines, like in the photoshop version on the shoes and belly.
But after all, I can only say WOW! with whatever style you are going to use. I'm really looking forward to this game, and your graphics look very proffesional, and I would definatley buy the game if it was in the shop ;D Keep up the magnifercent work!
edit : I overlooked the background and I think the mirror above the sink is just a tiny little bit off-perspective. :-X
WOWZERS!!!
That background is most excellent! The lighting ... the shading ... I'm impressed!!
I'm still leaning towards the coloring/style of the first one, but maybe just add a few frames? Would smooth it out, but keeping the feeling of the first one!
I like the contrast between outlines and shading ... I can't really explain why.
** dm stops typing to stare longer at that background ... **
Beautiful!
I prefer the coloring and outline style of the first character, while Moho animation wins as far as motion goes :)
I like number one better, he looks kindy nerdy, bad posture, ass looks real low when he walks, the other guy looks cocky and confident.
Nice animation thought
Background thingy:
Because of the black outlines in your BG, #1 will work better, but Some how, he looks like he is almost floating.
The moho animation looks much more natural - with that slight forward lean, less twist in the shoulders, and less 'broken' legs.
Both fit in to the background equally well.
Perhaps he should open his fists a bit - it looks like there should be ski poles in his hands.
Also, in the moho animation, perhaps he could pick the back foot up a bit more when bringing it forward.
Yes the hands seem to be clenching. Maybe have them open? It looks amazing but the hands destract me.
maybe its the speed of the first one (i know its been mentioned) but maybe if he leaned more forward with his upperbody, or you bent his knees out less.. in my opinion, they seem to shoot out too far away from his center of gravity.
I noticed that his pants pocket in the second pictures seems to ride up over his belt.
The second one appeals more to me both stylistically and for the game itself. I especially like the way the head moves in the second one. Well done, Dorcan.
Ah thanks again :)
Farlander : Well, the pshop walkcycle one isn't very much life-like... Even if I added more frames, the animation wouldn't look as good as the moho one I think.
Minimi : Thank you for your enthusiasm and comments :D. Yup, with darker lines it certainly would look better.
hehe in fact everything is off-perspective in this background... That's why I'm going to remake it. I traced lines over a drawing, and I forgot that it actually was a sketch, and I didn't care much about the perspective.. Now I regret :'( Oh well. Remaking a background can only improve it.
Darth Mandarb : Thanks. I tried to make the shading less blury as you will see, and I tried to copy the first animation style. I think it's better now.
Igor : Aah, apparently most of you prefere the coloring and outlines of the first one
Earlwood : The second one looks more confident ? Strange...
SteveMcCrea : Thank you for your comment :) I followed your suggestions about his hand and his feet movement.
Evil : Yup it's done, is it better now ?
Scummbuddy : Mmh you're right, but I don't have the motivation to modify this walkcycle. That's why I will stick with the Moho animation
Kyle : Oh thanks for paying attention to details! :D I removed the pocket for the moment.
There is the new animation :
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche.gif) (http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche02.gif)
The outside hand looks great (his left) but the inside still looks a little too open. A slightly longer pant leg would look nice too. I also really love the moho coloring and I would love to see it used.
I love the whole 'cut-out' look.
This is awesome! The way the collar bounces, the hair moves, the head bobs, and the cuffs of the pants shifts. Excellent!
About the only thing missing now is some details in the pant legs. Maybe just a seam line and pocket would seal the deal!
Great job!
That's really amazing! I think the second MOHO animation would look more adventurey, I'd use that one.
Evil : The right hand now closes slighly when it goes back down. Is it better ? I don't know about the pants, I like the fact they are too short for him :P
Eggie : :)
Darth Mandarb : ;D Yes, details are what make an animation realistic I think.
I followed what you said, the pants look less "empty" now. Thanks !
Ytterbium : Yup, the "cartoonish" look is probably better for adventure games.
I think it's almost finished now :
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche03.gif)
I really appreciate your help, thank you !
I must say that IMO the detailed hands and the motion on the hair makes it one of the best walkcycles seen here ever...
/me thumbs up
It's really cool.
I't has a great sense of deep (like it were some kind of 2D-3D cartoon).
Maybe the only detail I can critisise is that the shadow of the right leg is static and doesn't addapt as the leg moves.
Very nice.
Looks almost like a cel-shaded 3D picture...
Edit: ooh! One thing. Maybe his wrist should flop a little bit when his arm goes back.
I can't see anything else wrong with it!
Awesome job and I'd agree with Farlander, the details are just top-notch. The moving collar is what works the most for me!
The Critics Lounge works again!!!
Can't wait to see this game!
Many commercial developers would probably pay you to make characters like that.
Anticipation Meter:
(http://members.aol.com/greenmonkey824/images/thermometer.gif)
Much, much better! Though his pinky does seem to "break" at its high point. Not really noticable but still weird.
Me with more detail nitpicks. Heed them as you wish. :P
Alright, first off - there seems to be some sort of odd green line that I think probably is not intentional on his right leg, knee and thigh area. Also, the shading beneath the collar, right as it bounces, is a bit messed up. I also noticed you got another weird pocket or line moving thing - this time on the shirt, not as noticeable as it was with the pants. It's the one closest to the belt. Also, I think the other side of the collar makes his shirt look like it's crooked a bit... might want to move it back a bit, if you understand what I'm saying.
Don't mind me, I'm OCD.
that's very good!
anyway, some suggestions:
you may try lifting the rear feet a bit more when it's coming to the front and, also, try to stretch the front leg a bit more just before the foot toughes the ground. I don't know it will become better or not, it's just some feelings out the top of my head...
I'm curious how the animation will be in the game itself (ie after importing to AGS) - I always have trouble getting the timing and speed of the walkcycle right... I may get back to you on that for some help...
Farlander : Ah c'mon, I don't think it's the case, but wow thanks for the praise !
Pau : I agree with you, it's because it was a texture layer made in photoshop. But I've removed it, and I think it's a lot better now.
Eggie : I've made the wrist turning a little bit when the arm goes back
Darth Mandarb : Thanks again Darth ! That's true, the Critics Lounge is the perfect place to improve our creation
Ytterbium : Hehe if only... Nice pic :)
Evil : Right, it was a bit odd. Corrected
Kyle : Details details ! I love details! And I don't mind at all. So let's see :
The odd green line appears because of the bitmap layer I used to simulate the shadow. Moho doesn't handle alpha blending very good, so it screw up the image. So, I remove this layer, and made the shadow in vectors, which is much better.
Same thing for the shirt, replaced by vector lines.
I'm not sure I've understood what you meant by "the other side of the collar makes his shirt look like it's crooked a bit"... I've move a bit the left collar, but I'm not sure it's what you proposed me to do.
Ratracer : Uh, right, legs weren't streched enough.
About how it looks in AGS... When the character movement speed is adjusted with scaling & the anti-glide is turned off, it works almost good :P
Ok I also changed some minor things with hands, and I'm not sure about the shadow on the right leg.
Here's the new animation, on the right :
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche03.gif) (http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche04.gif)
This is sooo great!
I don't know if you were planning to keep him walking a bit slow, but I thought I speed it up a bit. For a gif, I could only do so by an increment of 1/100s, so here goes:
(removed)
Absolutely gorgeous, if a bit fast. A middle thing between your gif and this one speedwise and we have a winner. :)
EDIT
Scratch that. Seems my browser merely displays it a bit slow. It's awesome!
Lol thanks Strazer. It's the same problem with the internal microsoft viewer : All intervalles between frames are 10/100 sec long... :-\ I'm obliged to use Gif Movie Gear or Iview to play animation in the correct frame rate
Looks awesome! So smooth and full of detail :)
This just gets better and better!
Since we're 'perfecting' it here ...
The only thing I would (could) possibly nit-pick at this point would be that the left (front) leg line goes all the way up to the belt. It takes away just a little of the depth there (if it weren't for the great shadowing on the back leg, it would probably be more noticable).
Aside from that, this rules!
~ d
TADAaa :
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_herosmarche05.gif)
Petteri : Thanks !
Darth Mandarb : Yep, I was lazy to arrange that, but the fact you noticed it made me do it ! hehe ::)
I'm at a loss of words to describe how cool this is. :o
Only thing that could use some improvement are the feet, less form-fitting I guess. More like this:
(http://www.strazer.net/ags/argaarshoe.gif)
Otherwise, well, you know... :)
There's also one thing that bugs me, and that is the belt buckle. It appears to be resting on the left side of his waist. I don't know about you, but that's not where I rest my belt buckle at. Usually it's found on the mid-front of the waist.
I just realized that it could also be a belt loop, where the belt rest. If so, then I suggest adding another one toward the rear, to make it more obvious.
Yes, much better! I see one more minor nitpick point, but it's not worth bothering about. I think a good thing to do soon is make a post with that animation, and the two animations from your first post so we can see all the improvements and changes that it's gone through.
Sorry I didn't post this before, I just noticed it. His legs don't look very muscular. Unless you're intending for him to be a skinny guy, I think you should bulk them up a little.
And my mom says his torso looks stiff and that his hips don't move a lot.
Ooo, ooo! He also ought to be a ninja. I think you ought to call it a day, deal with the fact that it's only 97% perfect and do more chars/BG's so we can see this thing in action someday. :P
The update version is awesome. The only thing I can see is the right leg seems a bit plain. But apart from that I'll consider this a professional-quality character.
Maybe this is a bit off-topic. I use Moho,and I'm sometimes confused. Is the whole character in different shapes ot the same layer or did you use a layer for the arms, another for the legs,sharows...?
Quote from: strazer on Sun 01/02/2004 21:42:00
I'm at a loss of words to describe how cool this is. :o
Only thing that could use some improvement are the feet, less form-fitting I guess. More like this:
(http://www.strazer.net/ags/argaarshoe.gif)
Otherwise, well, you know... :)
Yes, I was about to suggest the same thing. His shoes are a bit weird in shape. They look more like slippers or something.
--Erwin
Strazer & Erwin_Br : It would probably be better if I changed his shoes shape, but for the moment I'll keep the animation as it is. I'm going to correct all the last details later, as I'm working on other things for the moment.
ScottDoom : Right, it supposed to be a belt loop :P I'll add another one.
Kyle : Thank you, maybe I'll show the improvement on my website.
Ytterbium : err I wanted him thin, not skinny... But I like him that way I must say. I'll think about it. Thank you and thanks to your mom ;)
YakSpit : Oh I work on several rooms and GUI while working on this guy. I simply needed to find the final look/style for my characters.
Pau : Thanks. This guy is composed with on layer for the torso, head and left leg, two for the arms, one for the right leg, and a last one for his shirt lines. I don't know if this is a good way of using layers, but it's my first try with moho.
Like the first MOHO one. Works better than the 2nd one.
Like his hands closed
Great! the latest MoHo one looks kind cell shaded, wich is great, i think it's the one you should use