Making my first game... heres a background... Critique welcome.

[sithlord1823]

Hi all!

I've only just joined the forums so be gentle!

I'm attempting to make my first game with a bunch of friends and have done a bunch of artwork for backgrounds.... please let me know what you think and how I can improve it?

I've also started to build the game as I'm looking for a sprite creator / animator.... I've been told that the best way to get anyone on board is to build a section of the game to show them.... hope it works as I'm hopeless at animation!!



thanks!

[Armageddon]

Your image is a link to a facebook page.

[sithlord1823]

how the hell do I link an image? im guessing I have to host it somewhere? any ideas?

[EliasFrost]

I use postimage for all images I post. It also provides you with forum thumbnails which is handy. http://postimage.org/

[sithlord1823]

Finally worked it out! Thanks for the advice!

let me know if there are any more probs with the image size.... or if there is a better way of doing it. Thanks

[EliasFrost]

Artistically, I think it looks really good, you've got a style going there which I dig. The challenge is to find someone who can draw character sprites that blend well into the background.

The only major critique I can give is that the image lack depth, for example I can't tell if that's a mountain behind the sign or a big rock. You might want to look into color values and perspective, a common mistake is to not take saturation into account, object far away normally have a lower saturation than objects in the foreground, and working with the right perspective dramatically alters the illusion of depth in 2D images. Those are the two issues that stand out the most, values and perspective. There are lots of great books that deal with the subject of depth, or you can use the internet.

Draw on

EDIT: Another thing that is important to take into advice is the colour of lighting and "colour bounce-off" (if that's even a term), it means that the color of the lighting and the surface of which it bounce don't match, on that sign for example, the lighting from the torch is yellow, but the bounce-off on the sign is white. It's a hard thing to get right (because many factors play into getting it looking good, such as texture, surface material etc), especially if you're new. Here's an example (simple but explicit) of what I'm talking about: http://idrawgirls.blogspot.se/2009/07/bounce-light-or-under-lighting.html

[sithlord1823]

That's great feedback Frostfalk.... I totally see what you are pointing out.... and I never would have if you had not have put your view forward. Luckily I draw in pencil then scan and print, then paint so my images are totally adjustable.... so i'll get to work and re-post another image when I can.

One thing I have to note is that these images are 'as is' whereas the game is running in 320x200 which obviously pixelates the resized image.... im sure I can add some depth with the backgrounds though considering this. I chose this resolution so it would make it easier to find a sprite animator.... and I want a retro look..... I grew up on lucasarts.

oh and the 'bounce off'... I totally agree... and forgot. It's a bit of an art trick to use white as it's a more dramatic colour in neutral landscape drawings.... which is what i'm really trained in.... even though it's not technically correct..... I will adjust though! This is one of the earlier scenes I created and did realise further along the line!

Thanks again...... really good feedback!

[sithlord1823]

may aswell upload another image...... feedback welcomed. These images will be lower resolution in the end game (320x200). If anyone knows of a sprte designer/animator that may be interested... let me know.

[Anian]

While the sign on the first background made me smile and you have got some skill in drawing, the style is a bit too "messy" for my taste. And have you tried actually using this in AGS, with a character? I think these are a bit impractical for actual use in-game. From the scaling issues you're likely to have, to consistency of sprite size, and detailing will be often lost (for example on the second background the book titles are hardly readable on 320x240 resolution).

[frenzykitty]

Let me start by just saying I love the style Its beautiful. My concern is any items or hotspots that are added later may stand out from the BG and make it obvious what the player needs to click on, so just try keep that in mind. Other than that it looks amazing, although I do think getting a srite to move in that warped world without looking unusual may be tricky. Have you considered making it first person as a potential alternative?

[Ghost]

I see that style working well with a character who has irregular outlines. As in, the outline visibly *wobbles*, like in some old-ish cartoons.

[EliasFrost]

In the second screen where the floor curves, it might be hard to get your character to move along that curvasion. It also seem like the field of view is very wide, which would require your character to also curve at the sides of the screen.

[sithlord1823]

Thanks for all of the feedback folks. I'm going to try and reply to you all in this one comment.... is there a way to direct my comments to any one of you? if not, I just hope you get this.

Firstly.... Thanks. Every single piece of feedback has been useful to me, and I've started acting on it as we speak and I will re-post images etc with amendments asap. I've decided to suspend development on the game until I can display all images on this thread and get appropriate feedback. What I would love is for you guys to keep checking it out? is there a way I can post and it notifies you?... if you want of course? I'd love to credit you guys to the game as you have substantially changed it for the better.

heres the replies

Frostfalk - I've been playing with the Helsing image in photoshop.... and have made some really good improvements. I've applied a blur to the background and amended the saturation and lighting levels... will upload in a bit. I also see what you mean about the second pic with the 'fish eye' floor...... I've ploughed on ahead with the art without consideration of how the game will work. I may re-draw the floor, or at least wait until I do have a sprite creator to see how it looks.

Ghost - that's exactly what i'm looking for... The demo I've created uses the stock 'roger' sprite, which certainly does not work. I'm looking for sprites akin to Day of the Tentacle.... or cartoons such as 'Ren and Stimpy', if you know of that!??! used to love it! ha! I need thick black outlines and over exaggerated motions..... im gonna have a right time finding a sprite guy!

Frenzykitty - I know what you mean about objects..... I was thinking of actually drawing them as opposed to spriting them so they do fit in? don't even know if I can do that? but i'll try? These images I've posted will be much lower resolution in the end product though... so who knows... experimentation I key I think on this. I prob should have uploaded lower res images.

Anian - I've constructed a demo with a couple of screens and loads of 'look' and 'interact' hotspots etc with a couple of downloaded characters. The resolution is a lot lower than what I have uploaded but yeh... they do kinda look out of place..... but the character style im looking for is nothing like the 'roger' sprite that comes with ags.... i'm looking for a much more cartoonish sprite. Can the sprite not be re-sized for each particular room? As for the books etc... I created the image knowing that it would be low res in the end anyway so im not too fussed about them not being legible by the naked eye.... kinda like the old lucasarts games.... I would rather players look at the items to give witty descriptions. 

Finally to all.... I'm in a bit of a bind in terms of resolution..... I would love to keep this low res as it will help me find a sprite artist/animator... but obviously i'll lose some of the detail.... what do you think? I'm worried that if I do it high res I may never find a sprite creator/animator.

Next up... amended image based upon frostfalks advice


thanks all!

[sithlord1823]

okay.... heres an amended Helsing image using the advice of frostfalk.... I've applied a blur and amended the saturation and lighting of the background in photoshop..... I still feel the need to reprint this amended version and put some white chalk on the mountain... which I prob will do.

[Uhfgood]

I'm not technically an artist, but am a fan of classic American animation, and am also trying to learn how to do a bit of pixel art, so you can take the advice with a grain of salt.

First forget about the "shopped" blur -- It just looks weird, mainly because you have a style that looks like it was colored with crayon and drawn in pen (I'm not trying to put down the artwork for being in crayon, I'm saying it's what the surface looks like, and if you take offense you can say it looks like maybe chalk pastels or something).

Okay secondly as far as perspective and what not goes, Your front tree looks as big as your mountain.  My suggestion would be to push the mountain way back into the background by making it smaller, and putting it higher on the screen.  Make sure the front tree is complete and doesn't look like it's behind the mountain.  In fact for scale I would probably create dark (black?) tiny tree silhouettes around the mountain.   I realize there's supposed to be a cliff there but I would put the grass over there to where in the image it's actually just above the sign, to make it feel like it goes a long way back behind the sign.  If you really want to leave cliff and mountain like that, make the mountain even bigger to where it actually goes off the top of the image, and make the moon smaller, while also making the mountain much much darker.

As far as characters with busy backgrounds such as these you might want simpler looking sprites that sort of contrast, think Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty with backgrounds by Eyvind Earle -- http://theartofsleepingbeauty.tumblr.com/image/4088137776 -- and then how the sprites were simple and angled, which stood out from the backgrounds.  That's what you want to go for.

Forgive me if this seems in any way confusing.  To the rest of the Critic's Lounge, please forgive any bad advice I may have inadvertently given.

The sign is a bit too noisy, if you look at the "Van" in the sign the lines on the end make it look like "Vanil" -- so maybe make the texture lines less prominant.

[Ghost]

I'm looking for sprites akin to Day of the Tentacle.... or cartoons such as 'Ren and Stimpy', if you know of that!??! used to love it! ha! I need thick black outlines and over exaggerated motions..... im gonna have a right time finding a sprite guy!

You should make up your mind about game resolution and general tone, and then pitch the story with those references. Personally I'd say the backgrounds will not work well with sprite-art; I suggest you really have someone drawing and scanning the character art. Then, however, I foresee several levels of awesome

[sithlord1823]

Hi Ghost.

Yeah... I'm totally torn on high or low res. I sacrifice image quality for low res but I do love a retro look. I also thought low res would help me find an animator, but I've advertised and had no luck as of yet.... Maybe the high res image is kinda scaring people off and I should put an ad out for a hand drawing animator? I thought about drawing the animations myself and did have ago... but I just ain't got that skill for what I want in the game.... plus I have my hands full with other areas of development, so I definitely need somebody.

Here's an example below of the same image with a mosaic effect via photoshop. Do you think sprites could work with this? is it even possible as the image will still be high res, but look low res (it just looks better to me that actually altering the res of the original scan).

Due to lack of interest in a sprite animator, I'm kinda leaning towards high res. It does seem a shame to sacrifice the image quality too? I dunno.

[Charity]

I'm not seeing the advantage of pixelation with your art style.  It mostly just makes your backgrounds look slightly less good.  I'm with Ghost, if I read him right.  Do the sprites in a style that is sort of sketchy, in the way your backgrounds are.  More traditional game sprites (even cartoony ones) are probably going to look out of place.

I like the general look.  Good use of contrast/lighting that is often neglected in in sketchier cartoons.  Though some areas look a little flat, still.  Not a good enough artist myself to tell you how to fix that.

EDIT: The use of thick, fuzzy outlines is the thing that looks the worst in the low resolution, I think.

[Ghost]

I'm not seeing the advantage of pixelation with your art style.

I agree, merely resizing won't work here; your hand-drawn style would require some more effort to be made into a "pixel art" background that gels with sprited characters. Stick to it, man. That drawing is good, and if you have a nice small game planned, you're bound to find someone who'll team up. Personally I'd prefer to play a game in such a style with matching characters, e.g hand-drawn, cartoony, the whole shebang.

And now I remembered the cartoon it reminded me of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9ZVWMPuZ2c