(Renamed) - Asclepius' general art critique and help-me-with-stuff thread

[Asclepius]

Here's some areas for my new project that will be taking over my free time for the next age. A Quest for Glory esque adventure game/rpg set in a Celtic-y land.

Also, some concept sketches (drawn by my wife - I'm not that talented) for characters.

Scene #1: Forest Path

Day:



Night:



Scene #2: Beach

Day:



Night:



Scene #3: Town

Day:



Night:



Male character concept:



Female character concept:



Comments? Advice?

What dyou think?

P.S. Many thanks to Corby LaCroix for the rather awesome Photoshop tutorials I found.

[Alun]

The backgrounds all looks really nice overall, but the sky in the beach scene kind of bothers me.  The clouds shouldn't be that well defined all the way to the horizon; they should become more indistinct with distance, until near the horizon they fade into sort of a uniform grey.  As it is, it doesn't really look like a sky; it looks like some weird magical force field.  (Unless it's supposed to be some weird magical force field, in which case never mind.)

There are a few other small details that I'd change; the tree by the rock in the forest path scene might look better if it had some roots showing, rather than just stopping at the ground, and I'm not sure why the mortar at that one part of the house to the left of the door is so much brighter than everywhere else.  But nitpicks like these notwithstanding, overall, they look good.

As for the character concept sketches... I know you said your wife did those, so I'm not sure if you want feedback on them, so, uh, in case you don't, I'll hide my comments so you can ignore them if you're not interested.

Spoiler

The detailing on the figures is well done, and the general designs are good.  But the arms on both figures are way too small for their bodies; they look really unnatural.  Also, I think the man's head is too small, and the woman's eyes are definitely too high on her face.  There are a few other details here and there that look a little off to me, too, but overall I think I'd say that while the features are individually well drawn, there are some significant problems with how they're put together; the relative proportions just don't match.  Might help to draw just a basic sketch of the proportions and body plan first, and then put in the details.  (And if she already did that... well, then it might help to use a reference, I guess.  There are little jointed wooden figures sold in most art stores to use as references for drawing human poses; maybe one of those could be helpful?)

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[Anian]

The last night scene (the in town one) just doesn't look like the others. It seems like not the same process was used. Besides you might wanna put in some lights (lanterns and stuff and then the scene would look more interesting.
While on lights subject - in the beach scene at night - there would probably be some some lights in the city, just dots of light or something.

I'd add some more detail (I don't mean in the art way, but just eye candy), like puddles in the town road, seashells on the beach, flowers in the grass, stuff like that.

The hidden, character critics:

Spoiler

And about the characters, I pretty much agree with Alun, it seems like it was drawn without drawing out a sketch of the anatomy first, so while the details are nice, the proportions are off. Only the top pros can do character drawings without proportion sketches, but they usually do it anyway.

Female figure has - too short hands and legs, while her torso is way too long. She also might use a bit softer jaw lines.

The male character also has too long torso but short hand. Also (as does the woman) the proprtions on the face are off (hes left eye seems to be too high, while her both eyes a bit too high on the head), should be easy to fix in Photoshop though.

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[Atelier]

Hey these are really good.

There's absolutely nothing to say about the two forest scenes, except I see a 'cannabis' leaf that looks pretty strange. Just paint that over or something and they're good to go.

Shouldn't the sea be more choppy in the beach scene? Probably an excellent opportunity for an animated background. You could also mask the line between the cliff and sand with some scree or something. (The contrast sticks out like a sore thumb).

In the town, there should certainly be some lighting, so you can avoid having to simulate night over the scene, which if you don't mind me saying, looks like Atlantis! Or Dunwich.

Great concept art and bgs, good luck, etc.

[Mad]

Made a very rough paint-over with just a few pointers:



- objects, features in the background become more blueish with distance, e.g. the rocks, the clouds...

- the rock in the middle is so shallow, that one would be able to see some of it under the water, same goes for the sand.

- I think some sand would pile up in the cavities of the cliff.

- for me the flat wall of rock does not work composition-wise. That is one suggestion in may paint-over, but I am sure there are better ways to do this.

Like I said, some rough ideas, that hopefully help.

[Babar]

The perspective on the one Mad edited (not his edit) is a little confusing. Mad tried fixing it up by fading away the castle in the distance, but that didn't really help.

It currently looks like the castle is on the up-hill side of a mountain, with HUGE trees and very large slanty walls.

Also, unless you really, really over-use walkbehinds, the long grass texture on the first BG will cause you many problems.

[Jim Reed]

Yeah, the perspective on the cliff town/castle is a bit off.
I made this here really simple sketch to ilustrate what would I change:

[Asclepius]

Wow! Thanks for all the feedback - tis appreciated 

I'll rework these a bit based on what people have said.

[evenwolf]

Jim Reed's perspective drawing = spot on.   Exactly what I was going to say.   As is, the peninsula looks like a floating rock. 

[Dualnames]

Jim Reed's perspective drawing = spot on.   Exactly what I was going to say.   As is, the peninsula looks like a floating rock. 

Seconded. 

On a second note, the man concept art, is kind of wrong too. His hands make him appear a little feminine.

[Matti]

On a second note, the man concept art, is kind of wrong too. His hands make him appear a little feminine.

Well, both characters have very small hands ans rather short arms too. Also, I think I've seen them before, but that's perhaps just my imagination...

As for the forest background: It doesn't really look like a forest at all but rather like grassland that is filled with random objects (trees, rocks etc). Despite the fact that grass doesn't grow beneath trees in a forest (due to a lack of light), you should really try to make the crossing from tree to grass much smoother - by adding roots, rocks, bushes etc. The 'cut' as it is right now makes the whole bg look way to artificial.. a bit like a men-made maze.

[Jim Reed]

Some perspective issues with that back wall passage.
Again a really quick MsPaint sketch:

[Asclepius]

I've been playing around with my areas. I've modified the beach a little, and I think the town scene is going to have to be completely redone.

What do you think of these?





I haven't got around to custom cursors and such yet.

[Anian]

Other than the resolution difference between the back ground and the character, the first one looks nice. Might want to make the rocks in the forground less textured (maybe a bit more blurry and darker) and little more varied (so it isn't such a straight line, like they were in the very first version of this you posted). Maybe some more details, a ship in the distance, seashells, crabs, starfish on the beach etc., to make it more interesting

The second one is not really optimised for a background - exits are not that obvious (well I think it looks like it has more than it actually does), the stairs are not really obvious (and you could use the fact that it's a human structure in nature to bring some interesting details, like make a statute right next to it or something, it'll give more life to the background, also maybe add a railing). The other thing is that the character seem too small, lik the stuff in the background is just a tad too big (including the stairs - they look like they're for a human about twice the size of the character. Also the whole picture kind of has a strange perspective which would require some wierd scaling of the sprite, so I suggest you redo the whole background (as in take the elemnts you have but change the actual perspective and scales). On it's own it's not bad, but as a background it needs to be adapted.

About the resolution, well you can try shrinking the backgrounds, save them, then enlarge them again. Try it and see how it looks. Cause right now the chracter doesn't seem to be in the same style as the background.

Hope that helps.

[Corby]

First off, I think you're off to a great start with your backgrounds. They are imaginative, and quite vivid!

Well, thought I'd try a quick paint-over. This is mainly to show how a lower resolution (I prefer 320x200 now-a-days) might look. I've found things become a lot easier at a lower resolution. One problem, of course, is that you can lose quite a bit of grass detail.

I think one problem with the style you were using (from my really old tutorial ), is that when using the maple brush, the foliage tends to come out too sharp in contrast to the rest of the background. In the paintover here, I used a softer brush that matches a bit better with the background. Also, trimming the dark edges of the foliage makes things look a bit more natural.

Other than that, I used less brighter blues/purples on the darker sides of the trees and added a bit of dithering here and there.

Again, just a quick paint-over! I didn't trying fixing any perspective issues, which I'm not good at myself.

EDIT: I also lowered the contrast on the front bushes so they appear alot more dark.

[Asclepius]

Love the paint over. I'm not fussed about losing detail - it just makes the whole thing look more Sierra-y.

I'll have a go at making those rocks a bit more varied, and I'll add in a couple of animated critters for interest.

As far as perspective in the second area goes, I'm happy with it to be honest. There are exits down the steps and to the top right, and it looks OK to me. I'll make the bushes at the bottom of the screen wider though to cover the whole of that edge.

[Khris]

Regarding the perspective: perspective isn't about the placement of exits, it's about making an image not look horribly wrong.

No matter where you place your camera you won't get steps like those. The ground and the plateau in the back are in great clash with the horizon.
At this point you can either keep most of the picture and remove any trace of sky and sea from the top-left corner, or rework the background according to the horizon you've placed.

Here's a sketch of what the second option should more or less look like:


The two green shapes are squares lying flat on the ground to serve as reference.

Your art is really great but you have to come to terms with your perspective issues, otherwise your backgrounds will continue to look way off and wrong, no matter how beautiful they are otherwise.

[Asclepius]

You're right of course. I was just hoping you weren't so I could be lazy.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Khris is absolutely right about the perspective, but looking at Corby's edit, however skewed, doesn't look bad to me at all.  In fact, the slightly tipped angle allows me to see more of the walkable area than would be possible with Khris' corrections.  You should definitely practice perspective drawing until you have it down, but I have to say in all honesty I think the background with Corby's edit 'works' as is, especially with regards to retro games (Sierra games would regularly have rooms with off perspectives).

[Snarky]

It's also worth keeping in mind that a grassy plain won't be a perfectly horizontal... plane. In this BG the middleground reads to me like a hill curving up to the right, which is fine. The little cliff in the background does seem off-perspective to me, but could easily be adjusted to give a different impression.

I would fix the stairs, though. And make the sprite look less like Sophia in a bad outfit.