Rocks & Background Background

Baron · Wed 26/01/2011 03:50:17

Hey all,
I'm struggling a bit with my forest here. I thought the foliage would be my biggest problem, but I'm fairly happy with the shrubs and trees, and the grass tufts are consistent with other backgrounds. The water and waterfalls will animate, so no worries there. But the rocks! Oh, those rocks are painful to look at. And I'm not at all happy with the background behind the scene. It looks too busy, but not busy enough at the same time (if you catch my meaning). So I'm looking for some constructive criticism:

Limitations: We've got to stick with the line art, which means no blending/rubbing. And I'm really only interested in a couple hues of shading MAX -I've got no patience for it beyond that. After that any suggestions are welcome. This is probably going to require a pretty major redraw for gameplay reasons, so no suggestion is too radical. Thanks in advance.

cat · Wed 26/01/2011 09:03:36

Saturation. Give the foreground rocks more, the background rocks and bushes less.

Monsieur OUXX · Fri 28/01/2011 11:49:40

About the "business" of the background:

Quote from: cat on Wed 26/01/2011 09:03:36
Saturation. Give the foreground rocks more, the background rocks and bushes less.

+1

About the good-lookingness of the rocks themselves :
I think they're consistent with the graphical style. They don't look particularly ugly.

However I' bothered by the area at the bottom-right of the waterfall:
The "light part" of the waterfall, the "dark part" of the river and the rocks meet in an awkward way there
-- I can't explain how, but there's something that destroys your perspective and therefore makes the rocks look bad.

Maybe you should move the horizontal line separating the "light part of the waterfall" and the "darker part of the river" slightly lower?

theo · Mon 31/01/2011 00:19:44

do what cat says. You need more depth. That's what's trolling you. You treat stuff that's right in front of the camera the same way you treat things that are far off. This is a no-no. Add some distance fog to layer it up!

Also I'd definitely recommend adding shadows. You could have a nice shaft of sunlight come down right on the bridge to create a nice simple focal point in the middle. Sorta like this, but not as crummy:

You wouldn't need to have all the shades I have in there. If you for some goofy reason need to keep it at a smaller palette, just chose one color for light and one for shadow. (for each material that is.) (ofc you'd have to blend them a smidgen in the distance to create fog though..)

Baron · Mon 31/01/2011 01:25:34

Wow -nice and helpful suggestions all around. Thanks a whole lot. I've been quite ill these past few days and so haven't done any work on this lately, but you guys have really fired me up to hit this bg again. Back in a (relative) bit with a second draft.

--------------
EDIT:

As I said, had to do a complete redraw (I forgot that the GUI would eat up almost 1/3 of the screen :

). This hurts the verticality of the scene, but there's not a lot for it due to character size. I tried to take criticisms into account in redesigning the background (lighter hues, less detail). Redesigned rocks are now shaded to add texture. One thing I'm missing is that bold shading that theo demonstrated, but I fear this might be beyond my skill (beautiful and mood setting as it may be...

). I will experiment with bolder shades, but I'd like some feedback to see if I'm on the right track or not.

theo · Mon 31/01/2011 08:50:05

Looks great, man! Good job! Glad to see you scraped up some balls with this.

Maybe add some cloudy mist at the bottom of the fall in the bg to add some ambiance? Would probably animate nicely too!

Monsieur OUXX · Mon 31/01/2011 09:08:07

Quote from: Baron on Mon 31/01/2011 01:25:34
I had to do a complete redraw

I love the redraw.
Maybe just try not to have the black foreground's outline being simply a straight horizontal line?
Apart from that the new version looks great!

cat · Mon 31/01/2011 10:34:06

I like the new version, the composition is much much better. You should really add some splashes or mist at the bottom of the waterfall.

Baron · Tue 01/02/2011 02:27:01

Quote from: Monsieur OUXX on Mon 31/01/2011 09:08:07
Maybe just try not to have the black foreground's outline being simply a straight horizontal line?
Apart from that the new version looks great!

Don't worry, that black space will be entirely covered with a GUI. Whether or not that is an improvement over horizontal black lines is another matter....

For everyone else, thanks for the positive feedback. Don't worry about that water, it'll all be PAVED with animation!

Matti · Tue 01/02/2011 02:29:39

Your new version is quite nice, Baron. I really like to see this with animation. You should post that in the crits lounge too!

Baron · Wed 02/02/2011 02:12:28

As requested, the animated version. Purple-greyish block at bottom is where GUI goes. As my web-browser (Chrome) won't scale and crop it properly, you'll probably have to resize the window manually to approx 640 x 480 to see it properly, but you get the gist of it anyway. I'm not that happy with the mist (too bumpy on the bottom, in my opinion), and the flow of the water above the log doesn't quite line up with the waterfall below, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with it. This is more or less how it will look in game, unless someone can offer some easy improvements.

Thanks again for all the help!

Monsieur OUXX · Wed 02/02/2011 08:35:14

Quote from: Baron on Wed 02/02/2011 02:12:28
As requested, the animated version.

♥

cat · Wed 02/02/2011 09:09:48

I love it! Can't wait for the game!

theo · Wed 02/02/2011 09:24:39

Looks great animated, man! Good job:D

Igor Hardy · Wed 02/02/2011 11:43:18

Quote from: Baron on Wed 02/02/2011 02:12:28
As requested, the animated version.

OH YES - animated waterfalls!!! That settles it - you'll be the one doing backgrounds for Snakes of Avalon 2: Behind the Toilet Door!

But seriously, great work on the background, and knowing your other games I bet these woods will offer a number of locations like this one to explore - all chock-full of animation, pesky gnomes, and other critters.

cianty · Wed 02/02/2011 16:12:28

Good sir, that is beautiful! The colours, the animation... makes you wanna live in those woods...

Baron · Wed 02/02/2011 18:25:16

Quote from: Ascovel on Wed 02/02/2011 11:43:18
Quote from: Baron on Wed 02/02/2011 02:12:28
As requested, the animated version.

OH YES - animated waterfalls!!! That settles it - you'll be the one doing backgrounds for Snakes of Avalon 2: Behind the Toilet Door!

But seriously, great work on the background, and knowing your other games I bet these woods will offer a number of locations like this one to explore - all chock-full of animation, pesky gnomes, and other critters.

Ixnay on the Omegnays. You'll give away all my plot ideas!

benny · Wed 16/02/2011 16:57:35

The rocks look great. You made some very good changes from the original. The animated version shows me that you are putting together one heck of a good game. I would add some more rocks sprinkled throughout the woods. I like the look of your rocks and they would help break up the bushes, trees and grass.

TomatoesInTheHead · Wed 16/02/2011 17:57:16

I have one minor critique left: The bottom of the one rock behind the log should be covered by flowing water, especially in the animated version it looks as if the rock is hovering in front of the water, having its black contour line untouched by any water.
Otherwise, great!

Baron · Wed 16/02/2011 22:49:51

Quote from: TomatosInTheHead on Wed 16/02/2011 17:57:16
I have one minor critique left: The bottom of the one rock behind the log should be covered by flowing water, especially in the animated version it looks as if the rock is hovering in front of the water, having its black contour line untouched by any water.

Hmmmm.... Now that you mention it, it does look a little funny. I'll be sure to patch that up in the game. Thanks!