Adventure Game Studio

Creative Production => Critics' Lounge => Topic started by: Mouth for war on Wed 12/02/2014 22:42:34

Title: Sanguinem Sanctorum (violent content AND a playable demo)
Post by: Mouth for war on Wed 12/02/2014 22:42:34
Hey! In this picnic-friendly room ;) I want to animate that candle in the corner...But I really suck at it. The candle animation itself is easy to make, but how to make the light against the wall? Can someone give some good pointers how to do this? (Animated attempts are of course more than welcome hehe ;) )
Enjoy!
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q492/Alcotrash_79/blood2.png) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/Alcotrash_79/media/blood2.png.html)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Atelier on Thu 13/02/2014 05:46:13
Cant help you with the candle per se - but good compoaition of scene dude
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 13/02/2014 08:16:59
Thanks man :-)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Armageddon on Thu 13/02/2014 09:25:45
Get a renderer like MentalRay and place a light and animate it to flicker in 3Ds Max.
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Thu 13/02/2014 13:59:08
I love the look you've got going here.  The only "major" critique I'd offer would be about the lighting... I get the "this is supposed to be creepy/scary" feeling from what you've got but the lighting just doesn't portray that effectively!  But that's not what you've asked for here :)

(http://i.imgur.com/rnNMpGM.gif)
- the light/shadow bounce is intentionally over-exaggerated (to demonstrate) but should probably be toned down a bit
- same with the candle flicker
- the cone of light (above the flame) should probably extend higher as well

One of the things I like about working with flames/lights/shadows is that flame is so random that just throwing lights/pixels around can achieve a very pleasing effect!

This was done pretty quickly so it's not as good as it should be, but it should be enough to serve as an example!
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 13/02/2014 16:21:28
Darth you are absolutely right. I really want to learn how to set the light better. I know i am asking for much but if you have some ideas and time of course to show me on that picture it would be really really awesome. I feel completely lost with this.That candle animation was really good!! :-)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Thu 13/02/2014 20:25:59
Had some free-time figured I'd give it a go (totally dig the style!)

I didn't have any of the textures/etc so I just did this from scratch (so it doesn't match-up exactly) but close enough!

(http://i.imgur.com/NY5Cq1k.png)
- gave it a hue shift to feel "darker" (and blue is more moody)
- added shading to better define the edges (walls, floors, etc)
- added a torch to define the light source

Some things I wanted to add (but just ran out of that aforementioned free-time):
- dirt and grime (to add more randomness and realism)
- more lights (to show overlapping shadows)
- the stairs/door
- blood on the walls
- stuff on the floors (barrels, bodies, etc)
- wood beams around the ceiling

Lighting (and shadows) is the part I struggle with the most and I'm FAR from an expert!  But the thing I always do (to create it) is to imagine my eyes are the light source and I'm looking around the room.  The parts of the room that I can't see would be in shadow.  It's probably not accurate to do it that way, but it works for me :)

And the lighting could/should be animated like I did with the candle before.  It's LOADS of work, but well worth it in the end!
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 13/02/2014 20:28:45
Glad you like :-) that was an amazing edit. Which program do you use?
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Thu 13/02/2014 20:40:22
Was done entirely in Photoshop.

I borrowed the textures from a Google search (didn't have time to make 'em myself!).
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 13/02/2014 22:08:29
Ah good ol' PS...Damn I guess I will have to settle with what I have...that light stuff is out of my league...I made an update though...I think this looks a little better at least :)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q492/Alcotrash_79/bloody3.png) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/Alcotrash_79/media/bloody3.png.html)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Fri 14/02/2014 16:29:39
What program are you using?  It looks like you've added an "omni" light object over the stairs for this version?

Can you adjust the color of the light?
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: selmiak on Fri 14/02/2014 20:45:58
I guess this is modeled in 3d so you could also put the lightsource outside of the door and let it shine through the door and have some cool shadows. And for the darkness that appears in the rest of the room you can light the candle.
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: nihilyst on Fri 14/02/2014 20:53:25
There's something weird going on with the shadow of the stairs. Why isn't it cast on the floor?

I dig the style. Has a unique vibe to it which I like.
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Fri 14/02/2014 23:14:45
I'm not using any 3d programs except for characters...the rest is 2D. I'm using World Creator and the game is actually made in Multimedia Fusion 2 :D I just added the light with paintshop pro fast and I think it should be possible to change the colors of the light. Yeah Nihilyst, that staircase shadow is bugging me a little. Need a little more work I guess with all this :)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Sat 15/02/2014 00:54:39
Yet another attempt then :D

(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q492/Alcotrash_79/bloody4.png) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/Alcotrash_79/media/bloody4.png.html)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sat 15/02/2014 15:00:11
Now we're getting there!  This is a major improvement.  The lighting (more the shadows I mean) still isn't technically "accurate" but the darkening of the scene is really helping set the mood much better!

I'm curious where the shadow of the stairs is coming from?  Are you adding that in manually in paint shop pro after World Creator renders the scenes? (I know nothing of World Creator so forgive my ignorance!)
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Monsieur OUXX on Sat 15/02/2014 18:36:06
I'm really impressed by Darth Mandarb's shading. With Photoshop?!? Teach me, master.
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Sat 15/02/2014 21:24:54
I draw the shadow in mmf2 and just make it transparent. So all shadows is made manually. Adding light/shadows is the most difficult part of the process i think.
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Sat 15/02/2014 22:18:21
World creator is actually a nice little iso tile engine...it creates iso and top down 2d tiles in seconds with wall depths etc...You can import black and white masks to create any tiles you want more or less :) Oh and I totally agree with you Monsieur Ouxx...Darth has great skills!!!
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sun 16/02/2014 16:11:39
Sheesh you guys are going to inflate my head :) 

I would wager that if somebody like Loominous was to see my "technique" he'd probably laugh (though his advice a few years ago directed shaped my style)!  I have no real idea about proper techniques or theories... I just kind of start throwing stuff down (adjustment layers (contrast, color balance, hue/saturation), layer masks, filters, etc) until I get something that I'm happy with.

Here's a quick (sloppy) rundown of what I did...

The Layout

The Lighting

The Shadows

I'm not sure this makes any sense?  That's really the first time I've ever tried to organize my "technique"... I've always had a hard time giving any structure to something as variable as art!
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Monsieur OUXX on Sun 16/02/2014 17:19:19
Loominous doesn't count, he came from a different planet.
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Sun 16/02/2014 23:44:08
Damn Darth...You make it all sound sooo casual ;) oh well...how should the stairway shadow look like to be more accurate btw? I have no more ideas. Not on the wall  and not on the floor like that...GAAAAH!! :D
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Mon 17/02/2014 02:44:56
(http://i.imgur.com/L1uacak.png)

The light you put through the door was much brighter than the one I used but I wanted to keep it darker and more creepy... so it's only a small amount of light that you would worry could go out any moment throwing you into darkness.  I'm getting the urge to make an entire dungeon now :)

Hope it helps!
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Mon 17/02/2014 13:57:00
Ah yeah i can make something similar to that. Thanks alot! Haha triggered your creepy old dungeon making sense did i? :-D a small demo will be ready soon i hope!
Title: Re: Some pointers regarding candle animation (Gory/violent content inside)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 27/02/2014 01:16:03
Hello my friends. I finally managed to put this small demo together of my game Sanguinem Sanctorum. It's a game about Jake, a writer who is working on a new book about different cults. The last one he investigated, Sanguinem Sanctorum was the worst of them all. Going to their last known location, believing the cult was disbanded a long time ago and with hopes of finding some clues and information about them he got much much more than he was asking for...With his car all broken...in the middle of nowhere with rain and thunder you start your adventure...

I have been playing this demo a few times and tried my best to fix all bugs i encountered...there could be one or two still there though so I really appreciate if you report them. This game will feature some unsettling stuff...like dismembered corpses...decapitated heads, jumpscares etc so if you are easily offended, don't play it :D This is a one man project so the full version might take a while but I hope you'll look forward to it. Oh and fighting enemies CAN be done without losing any health at all...just play it cool and don't just stand still ;) This was made for gamepad controls but if you don't have one it automatically becomes keyboardcontrolled(It SHOULD do that automatically). Controls are, Shift to interact and Space bar to attack. Mouse is needed to access inventory and other stuff
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q492/Alcotrash_79/screen.png) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/Alcotrash_79/media/screen.png.html)

And the download file for the demo. I noticed it's not the fastest site but if you have a decent connection it will take 3 minutes or something to download so watch some funny youtubeclips or something in the meantime ;)
http://www.fileswap.com/dl/x4KWtrm6j4/Sanguinem_Sanctorum.zip.html (http://www.fileswap.com/dl/x4KWtrm6j4/Sanguinem_Sanctorum.zip.html)
Title: Re: Sanguinem Sanctorum (violent content AND a playable demo)
Post by: nihilyst on Thu 27/02/2014 02:33:04
Cool! :D It feels great wandering around, the atmosphere is superb.

The fighting works okay, although it doesn't feel satisfying enough yet. I feel like hitting air all the time.

I wondered why the size of the screens changes so often. It's always like windowed except for the first dungeon scene, which is fullscreen.

I'm not too fond of the controls. Using the keyboard for walking, interacting and fighting works fine and feels well, but having to switch to mouse control some times is tedious, especially when the keyboard controls require both hands to play. If one could use WASD to control the character, that would be less of a problem. But I can't imagine playing with a gamepad and having to switch to mouse from time to time; that just doesn't seem right.

Inventory is too slow for my taste. The fade out and the zoom effect just take too long. When you click "inventory", it should just pop up.

When looting the first guy, I didn't get any message what I obtained.

The life bar isn't informative enough. First I thought I had very low health; the bar is small, it's red; but then I wasn't so sure anymore. It would be great to have a visual clue of how much life I have left, like a border showing the maximum health or something.

On the first screen, you can leave the screen through the top right path. However, when you choose the lower right path, Jack just walks off screen and nothing happens.

Anyways, its a promissing demo :)
Title: Re: Sanguinem Sanctorum (violent content AND a playable demo)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 27/02/2014 09:53:21
Thanks for your answer :) Yeah hitting air might be a good word hehe. Not sure what to do about it though. Any ideas how to improve that? I'm thinking already about the controls actually. switching to inventory with a button instead for example. Hmm...You should get a message when looting that guy. I always get that message...weird. Oh you're not supposed to go on any other path than that top right one but if he walks right off...I must check that! Really appreciate you took the time to write me :)
Title: Re: Sanguinem Sanctorum (violent content AND a playable demo)
Post by: nihilyst on Thu 27/02/2014 12:01:31
Played it again and now got the message. Maybe I accidentally clicked it away the first time.

I think the fighting might feel better with more hit responses. Now, when you hit the guy, he gets knocked back and grunts, which is good. Maybe a sound (or a variety of sounds) of your weapon hitting a body would feel better.
Title: Re: Sanguinem Sanctorum (violent content AND a playable demo)
Post by: Mouth for war on Thu 27/02/2014 13:27:23
Absolutely. I was thinking about some soundeffect for hitting as well :-)