Hello, everyone! I've been lingering on these forums for a while, but I've just now finally summoned up the nerve to post.
I've been working on this sprite for a while, and have reached the point where I need some help.
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_stand.gif)(x1) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_stand.gif)(x3)
I'm actually quite happy with this except for the head. It's a lot better than when I first started, but I can't seem get the face and hair to look ... attractive. The only difference between the two versions is her bangs. I've been fiddling with her hair and various facial features for a while, but I can't seem to make much of an improvement. Any suggestions and/or paintovers would be greatly appreciated! (In case it's not obvious, she's supposed to be wearing pigtails. The 2nd one is behind her head pointing "into" the screen.)
Of course, any other suggestions are also welcome. You can check out my "references" at http://www.flickr.com/photos/kozyndan/141420977/ and http://www.cosmates.jp/shop/product_info/pid-1560.html.
Thanks!
Welcome to the boards! (Well, ya know. In a registered capacity)
Heh... how to improve? Make a music video of version 1 kissing version 2 in the rain behind a chainlink fence whilst onlookers watch. You'll make millions. Oh wait no that's been done.
Actually, on a serious note, it looks great. Here's a *really* quick suggestion for the head. Just an idea, and you're probably better off waiting for someone more talented to reply, hehe. :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/schoolgirl2.gif)
EDIT: Oh hell why not:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/sghair1.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/sghair2.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/sghair3.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/sghair4.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/sghair5.gif)
Theeph painted over the one crit I have... her lips were HUGE. Like if Fairuza Balk and Juilia Roberts had a kid and inherited both their mouths...
Secondly is the skintone the only difference between version 1 and two... I don't see much of a huge difference.
Finally, the skirt seems to rise a bit too much in the back... So much in fact that a rear view would probably completely reveal the bottom part of the buttocks, at least from this angle that is what i would expect... I'd say expand the bottom of the skirt 2-3 pixels to give it more fullness heading toward the back. Of course, if her butt is hanging out of the back of the skirt, then it's perfect :D
Also for the second part of Theephs post, you must now animate them kicking, Rockette style
Something about that posture just seems a bit wrong, like everything almost has this 'floating' kind of feeling, I'm not sure what it is.
Maybe you could lower the skirt, make her a bit shorter, and possibly thin the upper leg a little bit. Anyway, aren't her breasts little too large for a school girl?
Quote from: earlwood on Mon 31/07/2006 09:42:45
Something about that posture just seems a bit wrong, like everything almost has this 'floating' kind of feeling, I'm not sure what it is.
She seems to be leaning backwards slightly. Try centering the feet under the body, or moving them back slightly behind it.
Quote from: Alynn on Mon 31/07/2006 08:35:54
Like if Fairuza Balk and Juilia Roberts had a kid and inherited both their mouths...
Alynn thy name is FEAR
Quote from: Alynn on Mon 31/07/2006 08:35:54
Also for the second part of Theephs post, you must now animate them kicking, Rockette style
Profuse apoligies for the O/T but I just have to:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/theeph/dancers.gif)
Be obscene! Be be obscene!
Actually so as this isn't a complete off topic post...
EagerMind - it's pretty obvious (from the fact that you said you've been around on the forums for a while) that you've been skilling up on sprite drawing, because this is pretty darn polished for a first post.
My question is why the weird pixel ratio? It seems to be based off multiples of 3. I think this is why you had issues with drawing the mouth too wide. If it was multiples of 2 or 4 it would have been easier to do, IMHO. Not that it matters of course. Just curious.
Wow, thanks for the feedback everyone!
Yeah, I guess those lips were a little out of control. I just didn't know how to fix them. Theeph, nice paintovers. Definitely something I can work with. I especially love the dreads - you've almost got me reconsidering her hairstyle! :)
As for some of the other comments: I don't have any formal art training, so I made this sprite by tracing over a model to get her basic shape (a la Kakfa's Koffee tutorial), picked the colors off another sprite, and drew the uniform on her using my references. It's amazing what you can accomplish doing this, but I wish I could say there was a little more creativity/originality behind it. But maybe someday I'll be able to draw something like this from scratch .... :P
As a result, I didn't make many conscious decisions about her posture or pixel ratio. I just scaled the model down to the height I wanted and let the width take care of itself. I did have to redraw her legs, since the model I was used was walking (not standing), so maybe that made her posture a little "off." I don't find this 3/4 view particularly easy to work with (one of the reasons I traced a model), but I'll see if I can find some tutorials and take another look at her.
As for her skirt, well, I lived in Japan for 2 years, and they do get pretty short. It can make riding an escalator quite an experience. But, I'm going more for sexy than obscene (although I guess that's eventually the viewer's decision), so ... I guess I'll lower it a bit ... grudgingly.
I'll get a new edit up when I can!
Her lips look two big.
Maybe if you just make her mouth smaller...?
Like somebody said, there's something a bit odd about her legs. I've pushed them back one pixel to show you what this means, though it doesn't make that much of a difference.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Schgl3.png) x1
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Schgl3.png) x2
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Schgl3.png) x4
EDIT: I'ver tried to make her arm a bit more natural, and shortened her torso like Gilbot said.
And her socks. They look way too baggy. Maybe that was what you were going for, though?
Quote from: EagerMind on Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09
I especially love the dreads - you've almost got me reconsidering her hairstyle! :)
It tickles me to imagine a bubbly Harijuku chick bouncing around, talking in extremely fast Japanese, pausing every so often to say "Jah! W'appan? Ev'tin arie?"
Quote from: EagerMind on Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09
As for some of the other comments: I don't have any formal art training, so I made this sprite by tracing over a model to get her basic shape (a la Kakfa's Koffee tutorial), picked the colors off another sprite, and drew the uniform on her using my references. It's amazing what you can accomplish doing this, but I wish I could say there was a little more creativity/originality behind it. But maybe someday I'll be able to draw something like this from scratch .... :P
No, this is the best way to learn! Besides, it's more or less the same as drawing something yourself. You still have to paint over it, so I think thats where the originality is.
Quote from: EagerMind on Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09
As for her skirt, well, I lived in Japan for 2 years, and they do get pretty short. It can make riding an escalator quite an experience. But, I'm going more for sexy than obscene (although I guess that's eventually the viewer's decision), so ... I guess I'll lower it a bit ... grudgingly.
The obscene thing was actually an oblique song reference. I am a card-carrying member of the short skirt fanclub. :)
Reminds me of when I first showed my wife GTO. She was horrified at the escalators in the first episode...
Quote from: aussie on Mon 31/07/2006 20:22:43
Like somebody said, there's something a bit odd about her legs. I've pushed them back one pixel to show you what this means, though it doesn't make that much of a difference.
Seems to me her skirt was too far forward, and there wasn't enough "from the back", making her look butt-less. Basicly shifted the skirt right one pixel, along with some other small things that didn't change much. I adjusted the bust, but looking at it, there's not much of a point to it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/evil1359/skirt_change.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/evil1359/skirt_change.png)
Well, I think we're a little bit closer:
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_stand.gif) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_stand.gif)(x3)
1. Changed "The Lips" and her hair
2. Smaller boobs :'( and, as a result, adjusted the tie so it continued to fall naturally
3. "Rotated" her skirt and belly button (that dark brown pixel right where her tie ends) one pixel to the right
4. Shifted her lower legs one pixel to the right to fix(?) the posture/legs issue
I think she's looking a lot better now. But some things I'm still not sure about:
1. I don't know that I'm happy with her pigtails yet. It still looks like only a ponytail to me. I'd prefer to have her hair falling behind her shoulders instead of on her shoulders (like Threeph had in one of his paintovers), but without seeing her second pigtail, I'm not sure it's clear what it is. Maybe I'm just being too nit-picky?
2. Now that I'm looking at it again, her skirt still looks kinda funny. :P
3. Does anyone else think her leg warmers look like cheese graters? I needed to give them some extra width because they looked like soccer socks after I changed her legs, but I'm not sure I succeeded.
I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and edits up to now, they've really helped a lot (I hope you'll agree!). Please keep them coming!
I still think she is leaning a bit back. I tried to correct it quickly, but I'm not sure did I make any progress:
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/paajanen/ags/em_schgirl.gif)
Changes:
- upperbody little to left
- arm bending
- bellybutton pixel down
- one pixel shorter legs and longer upper body
Actually Aussie's edit made me figure out what it was...
When aussie edited it made her quadrecepts stick forward a bit which make her look more balanced, the way you currently have it, it makes her hamstrings leading up to her butt look huge... from this angle I believe her quads would show up a bit more... barring that she doesn't have some thunder theighs....
And there is nothing wrong with big boobs on a school girl... my exwife had D's in 10th grade (15-16 years old)
Actually in my opinion her upper body was too long already, Mikko's edit made it even longer, especially when she was supposed to be Asian (am I right? since the reference pics were Japanese girls). I'd rather the upper body be shortened than even making it longer.
(I didn't mean there aren't real people with long torsos though, just not common, if it's meant to be long then it's fine.)
Quote from: Gilbot V7000a on Tue 01/08/2006 10:38:48
Actually in my opinion her upper body was too long already.
I agree. I've edited my previous "paintover" to reflect that.
Well, I've got two versions now, because I couldn't decide which one I liked better:
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_stand.gif) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_stand.gif)(x3)
What an amazing improvement! New edits since the last time:
1. Changed the hair a little bit. I think I'm finally happy with it.
2. Changed her legs, moving them another pixel to the right, giving her more quads and less hams. Also did a little rework on the shading.
3. The upper body for version 2 is 3 pixels shorter than version 1.
Taking a look now, I have to agree that v2 looks better proportioned than v1. That kind of surprises me, since it deviates from the model. But, v1 does have that kind of gangly, uncomfortable teen look about her.
Well, I guess it's time to start working on a walk cycle ... :P
Looks good!
Good luck with the cycle. If you have any, lend me some :P
Well, with the help of lots of Kill Bill music, I finally got a walk cycle done.
I suppose I should mention that I'm planning on using this gal in a fight game - think Double Dragon with schoolgirls and yakuza. I've included a sprite from the original Double Dragon game so you can get a feel for what I'm going for.
(http://www.asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk.gif)(x1) (http://www.asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk.gif)(x3) double dragon sprite: (http://www.asdaf.net/fight_game/ref_walk.gif)(x1) (http://www.asdaf.net/fight_game/ref_walk.gif)(x3)
(http://www.asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk_frames.gif)(x3)
I think for the most part I succeeded, but she seems a little stiff to me. In particular, there's not much movement in her upper body. Any suggestions for making her look a little more natural?
Of course, if there's anything else that people would like to comment on, let it out! Thanks!
I think its a good walkcycle as it is, but as always, there are always things you can improve.
If you wanted to move the shoulders a bit as she walks, then that would generate a bit more upper body motion.
Also, though I generally try and do without shading, the way you have the position would suggest that the right leg would have her body shadow coming across it, just to help differentiate between the two legs.
If you change each arm per frame as well, it makes them look like they are always moving, rather than moving jerkily. Perhaps if you gave the left arm more of a backswing. I do realise that there is frames of a similar fashion in the reference sprite, but if you can improve upon their effort, then why not?
Aside from all this I think you have done a fantastic job. Good stuff!
The dynamics in the animation are awesome. It looks so cool. But the sprite isn't ready imo. You should lower the shoulders a lot. Now she looks like she's got a pole up in her arse. check out aussie's paintover and you'll see what I mean.
I really like the sprites, but I do have some critic on the skirt:
- It looks like it's about to fall off her hips. Is this intentional?
- The skirt is VERY small compared to other schoolskirts I ever saw...
Besides of that: I like it!
I hope this helps,
~Yurina
Thanks for the complements everyone!
Quote from: Ben304 on Sat 26/08/2006 04:59:55If you wanted to move the shoulders a bit as she walks, then that would generate a bit more upper body motion.
Yeah, I've been wrestling with how exactly to do this. I've been trying to notice how people move when they walk - and watch myself in the mirror. There's definitely some kind of motion going on, but it's kind of imperceptible (as least to me). I'm afraid if I put in an explicit counter-twist in her upper body, it will be too much. I guess I should just start trying things out ... :P
Quote from: Ben304 on Sat 26/08/2006 04:59:55... the way you have the position would suggest that the right leg would have her body shadow coming across it ...
I noticed specifically in frame 3 that I could use some shading where the legs cross over each other. But are you talking about mimicking the reference sprite, where the entire leg is in shadow?
Quote from: Tuomas on Sat 26/08/2006 09:33:05You should lower the shoulders a lot. Now she looks like she's got a pole up in her arse. check out aussie's paintover and you'll see what I mean.
I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean, unless you're referring to my original sprite. The current sprite has already incorporated suggestions from aussie's (and other's) paintover. Are you saying it needs to be changed some more?
Quote from: Yurina-chan on Sun 27/08/2006 18:41:16I really like the sprites, but I do have some critic on the skirt:
- It looks like it's about to fall off her hips. Is this intentional?
- The skirt is VERY small compared to other schoolskirts I ever saw...
It's kind of funny you mentioned this. After I made the sprite shorter, I was kind of wondering if the skirt looked like it was sitting a little high, since it's so close to her belly button. I guess I needn't worry! I was going for something a little sexy/suggestive, but I didn't think I had reached "falling off her hips."
I guess I have to confess membership in short skirt fanclub (along with Theeph!). :-[ I've debated whether to lengthen it a pixel or two. I finally figured I'd just start animating her and lengthen it if necessary. But like I mentioned earlier, I don't mean to be off-putting to anyone. I guess you're saying I should lengthen it?
Quote from: Yurina-chan on Sun 27/08/2006 18:41:16I really like the sprites, but I do have some critic on the skirt:
- It looks like it's about to fall off her hips. Is this intentional?
- The skirt is VERY small compared to other schoolskirts I ever saw...
It's kind of funny you mentioned this. After I made the sprite shorter, I was kind of wondering if the skirt looked like it was sitting a little high, since it's so close to her belly button. I guess I needn't worry! I was going for something a little sexy/suggestive, but I didn't think I had reached "falling off her hips."
I guess I have to confess membership in short skirt fanclub (along with Theeph!). :-[ I've debated whether to lengthen it a pixel or two. I finally figured I'd just start animating her and lengthen it if necessary. But like I mentioned earlier, I don't mean to be off-putting to anyone. I guess you're saying I should lengthen it?
Quote
Anata hentai! ;)
Maybe it doesn't really fall-off, but I personally wear my skirts around my belly button. That's why I asked.
I personally prefer skirts that reach to my knees, but maybe that's because I'm a girl...
And you are a prude :P
Back on topic, you definately have that Double Dragon feel to the movement (god I used to love that game... and the twist...
Spoiler
THE BAD GUY IS YOUR BROTHER!!!
.
Actually if you really wanted you could keep the big lip sprite, and when she gets beat up too much she gets a fat lip.
Man... that's awsome...
The sprite and the animation are both great,
But I keep saying it...
There is no movement in her boobs as she walks!
Boobies thend to bob up and down when females walk :=
Anyway, I think her whole upper-part body needs a 'bob' in it.
Makes it a little realistic :)
Stare at a female in such tight clothes walk and you'll know what I mean ;)
Quote from: n3tgraph on Tue 29/08/2006 11:53:57Stare at a female in such tight clothes walk and you'll know what I mean ;)
HAHAHAHA! That got me laughing...
With regards to shading, I'd say try frame 2 and 3. No point going over the top and doing every frame, because she's walking diagonally, it might not look quite right.
Instead of having her lips frozen into the kissing position, why not make the colour of them a little less....red? Make them more "skin-coloured".
Your avatar is ugly... But the sprite is cool. XD
But yeah, the upper part seem stiff, you should add 2 more frames, putting her arms back also, not just "Center/front/Center/front..."
What I use is; Advance a lot the arm to the from when the first frame (passing) a little less in the second (High point) and almost imperceptible during the contact one. Then, the recoil must use the same position of the arm we used in frame 3, then, in the other passing it must be in the middle, a little back in high point, totally back in contact (but almost in the same than in the previous frame) and then arm back to the position in frame 6. Have in mind that we allways advance more the arm that put it back, look yourself in the mirror.
If this does not make sense, take a look to a sprite sheet I use, but don't mind the N/S walkcycle, it sucks.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/La_Lore/Critics%20Lounge/DefinitiveSprites-1.png)
Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I've fought and fought to give her upper body some motion. But ... well, I guess you'll just have to see:
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk.gif)(x1) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk.gif)(x3) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk_frames.gif)
Changes from the original:
1. Made her collar a little smaller.
2. Gave her arm a back swing.
3. Redid some of the shading on her right leg.
4. v1: reversed the swing of her tie.
5. v2: Added upper body "motion." :P
Anyway, I'm note sure what I like better. The motion in v2 looks ok I guess, but her body kind of distorts itself. I don't know, this is about as good as I could get it after numerous attempts. Suggestions?
Quote from: Yurina-chan on Mon 28/08/2006 17:22:07Anata hentai! ;)
Chigau yo! :)
Quote from: Alynn on Mon 28/08/2006 18:18:50Actually if you really wanted you could keep the big lip sprite, and when she gets beat up too much she gets a fat lip.
Heh, heh. Not a bad idea. I've thought about making a "beat-up" sprite, but I'll see how motivated I can stay. I'm having a hard enough time just making her look normal!
Quote from: Babar on Sat 02/09/2006 13:17:44Instead of having her lips frozen into the kissing position, why not make the colour of them a little less....red? Make them more "skin-coloured".
Are you talking about going back to the "fat lip"? I think I've gotten it about as good as I can. I've experimented with different skin-tones on her lip, and nothing really looked right. Besides, would it be so horrible if she really was trying to give everyone a smooch? :)
If I may be so bold:
(http://www.garlic.com/~rideout/spacepiratecaine/schoolgirl_walktest.gif) (http://www.garlic.com/~rideout/spacepiratecaine/schoolgirl_walktest.gif)
It might behoove you to darken some of the outer pixels on her loose-socks, as they don't show up very well on lighter backgrounds. (Noticed after making the background transparent).
I made some very minor alterations to frames 2 and 4, which I think help to make the movement transition a little more smoothly - making the swing of the tie less drastic, and also changing the hair's movement (also less drastic) and added some swing to the hands. I also altered the skirt ever-so-slightly in frame 1.
The more drastic movements do help to distinguish movement, and are pretty groovy stylistically, so this may not appeal.
It looks pretty good, and the skirt seems fine, in length, to me - one thing you may want to keep in mind, though, is that if she's furyou, she's more likely to wear a long skirt (assuming this is based in Japan). If she's just an ass-kicking high-school girl, then the rolled-up skirt works fine, methinks.
Quick edit.
1. Made arms swing more. Arms should probably be lengthened to mid thigh.
2. Added downward motion on down step.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/schoolgirl_walk.gif)
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/schoolgirl_walk.gif)
Thanks for the paint-overs! Seeing ProgZ's made me realize that she really needed a bob. Originally I had made a conscious decision not to add one to emulate the Double Dragon sprite, but I think it she really needed it. I guess I've kinda gotten away from the style of the reference, but for the better, I think. The final(?) result:
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk.gif)(x1) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk.gif)(x3) reference: (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/ref_walk.gif)(x1) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/ref_walk.gif)(x3)
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_walk_frames.gif)
Changes:
1. Redid some of the shading on her face.
2. Reversed the swing of her tie (again).
3. Added a bob to her step.
I decided not to change her skirt in frame 1. I experimented with SpacePirate's and ProgZ's edits, but I decided I liked the more dramatic motion I originally had. I liked the idea of varying the motion of her hair to give her upper body a sense of twisting, but again, I decided to stick with the more dramatic motion. Also, I left her back swing alone. I worked with ProgZ's edit, but it seemed like her arm kind of bent back on itself when I increased her back swing.
It seems a lot of tutorials talk about adding "floppiness" in the hands. But I don't know, when I walk my hands pretty much continue the line of my lower arm. Looking at ProgZ's edit does make me think I may need to lengthen her hands one pixel, but for now I left them.
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Sun 03/09/2006 15:11:42It might behoove you to darken some of the outer pixels on her loose-socks, as they don't show up very well on lighter backgrounds.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I think I'll leave them for now, but I'll keep this in mind if I start running into problems once I start working the backgrounds (*shudder*).
Boy, I never thought it would be possible to spend so much time fussing over a couple pixels. All in the learning process I suppose. Anyway, time to get her fighting! :P I'm sure I'll be back for more help soon ....
Quote... if she's furyou, she's more likely to wear a long skirt ...
No, she's a good girl, just trying to get her Hello Kitty bag back from
yakuza! :)
Only thing I have to add is that ProgZ's edit looks like her hands are open, and yours look like she has them closed.
No problem either way, it depends on what you're after.
Well, I finally put some more work into this and finished a punching sprite. I also finally gave her a name. So say hello to Kei and watch out for that fist!
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_punch.gif) (http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_punch.gif)
(http://asdaf.net/fight_game/kei_punch_frames.gif)
Overall I guess I'm happy with it, but I'm sure it can be improved. Her skirt seems kind of "off" to me. Also it'd be nice to give some shape to her hands/fists, but I'm not sure what to do without giving her gorilla hands. Any suggestions would be helpful. I was hoping to get a kung-fu movie feel to the fighting. Have I succeeded at all? And of course, C&C on anything else you see is certainly welcome.
I'm working on a kick too, so I'll post that up if I ever get if finished. :P
When holding the arm diagonally, the pixels produce too thin of an arm. I don't know how to avoid this though, since adding another pixel would make it to fat'. Perhaps play around with the darkness, making them less of an outline and more of a shape.
The skirt also resemble tight shorts. I guess that pose would in the end lead to a thorough blood panty shot. Either lenghten the skirt or suffer the consequences :=
I guess changing the angle does the trick:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/girly.png)
Hmmm, I was trying to make it look like Shotokan karate (which I know nothing about). But now that I'm looking at some references again (here (http://www.superaction.com/website108/images/108/classic/shotokan.gif)and here (http://stackpole.org/gallery/KarateSpring06/IMG_0778)), their arms look quite different. *sigh* Guess I'll have to work on them some more ...
The main problem I see is the dark outlines are limiting the natural shapes you can give the girl to make her more feminine and to make the arms and such more shapely. Here is an edit to explain what I mean.
1. Changed darkest skin tone to next darkest to give arms and legs more definition (visible calves, shapely arms). Don't be afraid to allow natural shapes flow beyond solid lines and such, the end result is almost always better.
2. Reworked the animation using a quick start, slow end approach. This is my personal choice for animating action. The trick is to have the actual strike fast but the rebound slow to make the animation appear fluid to the eyes.
3. Reduced frame count to 10 eliminating unnecessary lead-in frames.
4. Made hair and skirt flow with the action.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/kei2.gif)
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/kei2.gif)
Hopefully this will help. Nice work so far!
Wow, ProgZ, just an amazing edit! :o You really just made my first effort look like total garbage! :) That's good though. I'll study what you've done to try and improve.
I have to confess, it's inspiring to see edits like this to see how good this could look, but at the same time kind of discouraging to see how far I still have to come. :P But this will really help a lot. Thanks!
Looking good! Animation is such a wonderful thing when its done right. *sigh*
This thread is almost a month old, Rharpe.
Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 23/11/2006 02:25:54
This thread is almost a month old, Rharpe.
Did I do something wrong?