Perspective problem

[sloppy]

I'm trying to create a background of a store and just showing one corner.Ã,  To do this I'm using 2-point perspective (with 2 vanishing points).Ã,  Here's what I have:Ã, 
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/store.PNG

Just a small thing, I'm trying to make a door mat.Ã,  Does anyone know why it looks so out of proportion when I'm sure I'm doing everything the right way as far as rules of perspective.Ã,  The same thing happens when I try to make square floor tiles.Ã,  Are the vanishing points too close together?

[Nikolas]

Well.. it is out of proportion because it is too big, to begin with. There is no end to the blue door mat. Maybe the VP are too close together, it almost does not seem like a square corner...

The 2nd VP is just a bit off, according to the back wall and not according to the mat, maybe that?

I don't know, best to wait for someone esle more experienced than me to help you though...

[SpacePirateCaine]

Well, the doormat indeed is going to end up looking something like that when your VPs are close together like that - I've had the same sort of trouble with BGs as well, and when it comes to perspective, it's best, honestly, to move your VPs as far away from one another as possible - otherwise you end up with a warped, hard-zoom like that. At the very least, I'd suggest you push one or both of your VPs off the edge of the image, if nothing else than to make it easier to keep objects closer to the edges from getting too out of whack.

Also, as Nikolas mentioned, the welcome mat ought to have the inner edge at least partially visible. One of those problems with simple shapes in close perspective is that when they go off the edge of the page, oftentimes you really can't tell where they're supposed to stop. This can theoretically be avoided by adding some detail that'll give people more of a 'doormat' idea, but as much as it sucks to have to redo an entire BG, I'd suggest reworking the image with more distant VPs.

Also, though you may or may not need nor want it, this site provides a lot of really handy insight into perspective work.

[Ishmael]

I'd move both VPs downwards, and toss the VP2 outside the screen. As said, what it is now the doormat is on a very odd perspective right now.

Atleast, make the perspective lines that should have a 90 degree facing to eachother to be the same lenght from the vertical; something like >< instead of / if you know what I mean...

[sloppy]

Okay good.  That pretty much answers my question.  I'll have to move one or both VP's father apart.  I guess I thought that since the rest of the room turned out, there should be no reason that a small thing like the floor mat shouldn't work with the same VP's. 
Thansk for the response guys, and also for the perspective tutorial link.  That was helpful.

After working with the vanishing points a bit, here's my finished background:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/jewelrystore1.png

Any C&C would be welcome.

[Nikolas]

I like it. Perspective wise it's fine. The colours seem to be just your style, so... ok.
The only thing is that the ceiling reminds me of the ceiling to the living room, don't make every room you have like this. I don't think that every ceiling where you live is the same, is it? Just that, otherwise it's fine. And it is coherent with the other BGs you have showed us.

[Andail]

The perspective isn't really right, in the sense that it's too extreme. A perspective system like the 2 vp-system is only appliable within a certain range, and especially when the view points are so close to eachother as in your picture, that range is pretty short.
Of course, the background can still work, but keep in mind that the warped perspective will add a cartoonistic effect to the game.

PS:
Thumbrule: Draw a circle which - at its greatest width - touces upon both the view points, and hence is intersected by the "horizon".
Shapes and lines that lie outside this circle in any direction cannot be drawn correctly using both vp's.

[Kweepa]

These two vanishing points should be at 90 degrees to each other.
If you imagine a camera looking at your scene, then having two visible is like using a camera with a field of view greater than 90 degrees. The closer they are together, the wider your field of view. And wide fields of view = apparent distortion around the edges.

[Ishmael]

like using a camera with a field of view greater than 90 degrees. The closer they are together, the wider your field of view. And wide fields of view = apparent distortion around the edges.

Fisheye-effect?

EDIT: Actually, it's an inversed fisheye something...

[Nacho]

Allow me an example of why perspectives must be, if possible, simples...



Look at the image at the left... I thought it was cool, and I am still very happy of how I archieved the MI lighting effects and all that. Then I used AGS... and the scalling was... horrible. I spent like a week doing a nice animation, pixel by pixel, and it sucked because it was necessary to scale it to 80%.

Then... I did the second imahe. It lasted (it will last), all the day, but I think it is better.

Tip: Don't hesitate to re-do backgrounds, they look so much better than the previous ones, and they make you happy to go on with the game creating experience. I had this game (the one of the background you see) in my hard drive for all over a year, there, alone, lying... And now I rescued it just because now I am happy with the overall look. Hope to finish it this month.

[LGM]

Why is that man naked, Farlander?

[Nacho]

For three reasons (sorry for the out of topic):

1) I started painting the main char over Mr. Colossal's template, and I have completed all the walkcycle .

I also have made a really complicated animation of the main char in the "Eric Furstein's grey" tones.

The project was "on hold" for 9 months and I revived it yesterday. I realised that the previous sprites sucked.

So, I had to put clothes on that grey animation. It is so much easier for me to do it colour it all if the char is nude.

2) As a homage to Helm's one room game, Vaginas. His char was also nude.

3) Logical. I don't think there were an "official prison clothes" in the XVIIth century.

And allow me to credit ProgZmax, the face of the guy is his, as well...

[SinSin]

I did a quick pants example of how i would draw a room


i try and avoid technical angles as much as poss but it costs
dunno if it is any good to you and as nikolas said the mat is too big shorten it down

sin sin

[jetxl]

...
2) As a homage to Helm's one room game, Vaginas. His char was also nude.
3) Logical. I don't think there were an "official prison clothes" in the XVIIth century.
...

I'm super sorry for the off-topicness, but
2: the game was called Caverns. Vaginas was the briliant Feudian translation mode.
3: More important. Nudity was a sin in the european 17th century. That is why Native tribes and Africans (who did not cover up their entire bodie) were pittied and not seen as equal. It is most uncommon that the prisoner is naked. The guards would have offered him some clothes, were it but rags.
Love the style b.t.w. Very indylc.

Back to the matter.

[Anarcho]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but since vanishing points of come up...where is the best place to draw your horizon on adventure game backgrounds?  I find if it's too high, then scaling often becomes a problem (like Farlander's problem).  Is there any good rule to work with, or does it not really matter?  does it matter more where the 2 points are in relation to one another?

[Andail]

Scaling doesn't have to be a problem just because the horizon is set high, it has to do with how "steep" the perspective is.

Try to show an interesting part of the background. Too much ceiling is boring, unless it's very important to the gameplay.
I'll return with some graphical examples.



Excessive scaling will only occur when the perspective is very "long" or "steep".

[Anarcho]

Yeah, i guess I'm talking about how steep everything is.  I just really dislike backgrounds where it looks like you're looking down from a high ladder, but the player character is drawn in complete profile as if you are standing next to him.  Do you know what i'm talking about? 

I can post a bg i'm working on once i get home from work to show what i mean.