Some beginning background sketches

[Uhfgood]

Hello my name is Keith, and some of you might have seen me as Uhfgood in irc --  I guess in a way i'm new, but more like i'm a long time lurker.  I might have posted here a couple of times, but not that much.  In any case i'm working on my first background, and have just started some sketches... Just wanted to get people's opinion.  These aren't in any way finished, but I'm wondering if anyone could give me an idea if the layout or composition is ok (or the scale).  Instead of posting a picture here i'll post a link to my blog, as I use that to document my progress... the top 4 posts have my progress thus far.  Here's the link - http://www.gamesafoot.com

If i'm out of line in anyway please be gentle, I will try to correct myself in the future.

Thanks
Keith

Edit: Decided to attempt to add in the images directly --

latest version -


previous (second) note: no room for the door to open -


first try -- perspective is way off


original concept -- I was attempting to make this and then realized that in each version I didn't have enough floor space for the character to walk around -- i still may go back to something like this though


Please note, i'm not attempting to emulate a cartoony style.  My backgrounds for this project I want to be somewhat realistic and of course pleasing to the eye (but the pleasing part is later when i paint it ;-)

Please read the blog posts for a more in depth description of what I was attempting.
Thanks.

[zabnat]

I think you should still post the pictures here, following links are always so troublesome

Some crits. You last version seems weird. Everything is very wide and the room is huge (I'm a poor chap so I'm not used to big rooms ). The previous version look better to me. But actually I like the composition of the very first sketch (black'n'white) the most.

[Uhfgood]

Doing a background is harder than most think.  Correctly the bottom pic is the best looking one as far as composition, however if you're doing backgrounds for a game, you need sufficient floor space and at least an indication of where you can walk.  That's hard to do with that original picture.

The problem with the previous version though is the fact that it failed to address the fact of the door opening, if I don't have any room I can't get the rest of that in there.

This comes to the current version, I guess I can see what you mean by huge.  I tried to make the back wall smaller so i could add more room to put all the stuff i needed in there.  If I get more crits about that i'll probably go back and do another version, but i'm running out of paper! ;-)

so you do this thing where you make it interesting, but you can't walk a character around in that, then you try to add in stuff you want but then you can only make the image so big.  I need to make it a wide aspect ratio so i can fill the screen with the room, rather than only use up a small portion of it (maybe this would be better?)

In any case criticisms appreciated...  Will look into doing another version.

As far as posting images, i guess i can try that, but maybe later, i'll have to figure out how to do so ;-)

Thanks,
Keith

[pslim]

What size are the sprites you plan to use? If you find you're having trouble fitting everything into your rooms without taking up all of the available space, you could consider scaling everything down a notch. If your sprites were slightly smaller, you could draw everything else slightly smaller, but maintain the same canvas size and end up with a little more breathing room. *shrug* Just a thought.

Your sketches seem promising but it's hard to really have any idea what the room will look like based on that stage.

[Uhfgood]

Thanks for the crit --

I haven't decided on the sprite size, i can scale in-engine though to make sure it all lines up.  It's not so much the amount of sprites i can fit, it's more, about the walking room of the only character in there.

Been playing a tale of two kingdoms and there's a scene in that town of havgan where the druid is, and right in front of the house of that lady that makes cider is a tree -- I found it hard to find the opening until I realized I was to click on the tree that was covering the doorway up.  This kind of thing, is what i'm hoping to avoid.

As far as making everything smaller, i'm still considering -- because like I said, some of the screen area won't be used up then -- of course I could do this on purpose though, less to draw, but sort of would waste the space...

Will give it some more thought.

Keith

[pslim]

Uhf -

I'm interested to see what your style is when you're a bit further into the process; the initial sketches are intriguing.


I think the issue in that screen of TOTK is one of composition rather than scale.

And with regard to rooms that take up less than the total space you have allowed for your backgrounds, I think it's been used to very good effect occasionally. It allows you to vary the actual size of your rooms so that large places actually are large and small ones actually are cramped. It also, at least to me, gives the sense that you're actually, physically looking into this place and can't see beyond its boundaries.

Not that you should do it that way, or any particular way, just that you might not be so quick to dismiss it as a possibility.

[loominous]

I personally loathe having to follow links to see/hear stuff, and usually just ignore these kind of threads.

There might be others like me, and if there are, you're potentially missing out on critique that you might have valued.

Just wanted to let you know.

[Nikolas]

I personally loathe having to follow links to see/hear stuff, and usually just ignore these kind of threads.

Loom, I see the point with the see part, but how else will you hear an mp3? AGS forum can't have a QT player on a thread, you need to link it, no?

Uhfgood: Somehow I find that the camera placement, on the back wall, to be somewhat ungreat. There seems to be lack of interest for the player, and for the character to get wherever (s)he wants, they will need to scale with every step, since the placement of the camera is like this. If you had the camera on the right wall, instead, it would be, of course, a bit cliché, but much more workable imo.

Just a thought, from a non artist.

[ildu]

Off-topic:
I feel the same way as loom, especially with music tracks. It annoys me immensely if I have to follow a link to an mp3 file that I have to download before I can listen to it. And although that might just be due to my own lazyness, I absolutely hate when I have to download a zip and open an mp3 before listening to the track. Furthermore, what I detest is downloading an mp3 from a storage site like Rapidshare where you have to type in spamfilter words or in some cases even wait 60 seconds before you get access to it. I'd love to listen and crit all of these tracks, but I just don't have the time/energy to go through the procedures.

The same goes for images, but usually you get what you're looking for pretty fast, so it's less bothersome.

Note to people releasing completed games:
I have yet to download and play a finished AGS game that I haven't seen a screenshot of. Nothing irks me more than completed game threads that just mention that you've finished a game and gives a link to it. Pitch it to me with a description and some visuals.

On-topic:
The closet is wa-hay to deep. It looks like a hallway. The bed also looks a tad large, especially from the door-side of the room. You might also think about lowering the bed a bit. Also, the composition is suffering on both sides of the foreground. On the left, the space next to the desk is quite empty and creates and opening for the composition. The box on the right side leaves a large empty space to it's right side and it obstructs the composition.

I personally loathe having to follow links to see/hear stuff, and usually just ignore these kind of threads.

Loom, I see the point with the see part, but how else will you hear an mp3? AGS forum can't have a QT player on a thread, you need to link it, no?

I praise the Lordi when I come across a link to a streaming music track. To me it's the easiest and least frustrating - a quick link to an otherwise empty page with a streaming player for the track.

[Uhfgood]

a note about the closet... i'm usually just playing around with it, please ignore the inside of the closet ;-)

okay, i'll attempt to do a version that is like my original concept sketch.  It's just originally they weren't turning out right, but now I think I have a handle on some of this stuff.

Keith

[Nikolas]

I personally loathe having to follow links to see/hear stuff, and usually just ignore these kind of threads.

Loom, I see the point with the see part, but how else will you hear an mp3? AGS forum can't have a QT player on a thread, you need to link it, no?

I praise the Lordi when I come across a link to a streaming music track. To me it's the easiest and least frustrating - a quick link to an otherwise empty page with a streaming player for the track.

Thing is this. If you have QT, usually it defaults itself to stream mp3 files. If you don't, then you will need to download it or play it (after it downloads). Other than that, with music there is box.net and esnip which can play pretty fast files... That's it.

sorry for the offtopicness

[Uhfgood]

Okay let's try this again, I think i've almost nailed it. I also did something that might be a little risky. I changed the bed around to the front, and added a book case in the back. then moved out the hamper into the middle. So basically it's framed by some foreground objects, it's got everything I wanted in it, and it's got 1 more item (the book case), also the door may open, and the closet looks normal (I hope). Still just a sketch, there are a few issues, for instance, the drawer on the computer desk, i had it closed but since you'll be able to fool around with stuff, then I hollowed it out. I left the handle on the computer compartment because i'm not expecting someone to look in there… In fact I may remove the handle, just having the computer behind the compartment or shelf should be enough. (We can theorize how you get the dern computer out of there till the cows come home, but I don't think it will make much of a difference). Notice it's almost completely bare room, including the bed. This is on purpose. Also I think it will still be easy to move around. Of course, i'll still have to be extra careful where i put the pizza box with a couple of old moldy slices still in it, and the clothes and what not, probably limited to what you can see, except if I decide you can search under the bed (might work). So you have to clean up your room, and then find your library card.

Anyways let me know what you think.



Keith

[ildu]

500% improvement. The composition now makes sense and the image seems much more balanced. In a way, I also like the linearity, symmetry and boxyness, although I've had to ween myself from that kind of thinking years back . It looks a lot better now.

- The closet is still too deep. By what it is now, I'd estimate the depth to be about the same lenght as the doorway.
- If the bookcase isn't gonna have drawers (and I assume it won't, since... it's a bookcase?), you might wanna indent the platforms.
- The box, or hamper? looks a bit too much like a regular cude in profile. What I mean is that even though you might be detailing it later on, the general shape may profit from a little more sculpting .
- A lot of objects lack 3d, like the floor lining, the brim of the doorway, the handle on the computer table, the monitor, so you might just wanna keep that in mind when starting to paint.

[Uhfgood]

Thanks for the crit

Hmm, I can fix the closet I guess... As the next phase is a clean up with regular (black) pencil. 

Indent the shelves? you mean so it looks completely open and as though the shelves were placed in there seperately?  I guess in a nice piece of furniture the shelves are flush with the casing, however, in some of the cheaper ones (like what i have in my aprtment here) they were put in.  I will keep it in mind.  In fact i'm going to slightly modify the book case, it may have 5 shelves instead of 6 because those appear to me to be too small after I drew them.

Yep that cube is indeed a hamper... I will probably go look at real life hampers to see how they look and adjust accordingly, as it's possible the size is even incorrect.

As far as 3d on the door frame, and the wall trim (even the closet frame) -- I always figured that I would paint that in, rather than draw it, although I suppose I could find my way to drawing it, when I do the black pencil version

Anyways thanks again for looking!
Keith

[Uhfgood]

Not really sure if anyone is checking this out anymore, but I created another, not so drastic of a change.
My web host will be going down soon, so I don't know how long this image will stay up... But attempting to migrate to another host.

First black pencil sketch… Not sure how the final clean up is going to turn out, but I modified this sketch a bit… made the dresser only 4 drawers and the bookcase only 5 shelves… the hamper has changed shape to be a bit more dynamic, and I even made the closet seem a bit smaller.

[Afflict]

I must say you did improve allot, well done, welcome & have fun!

[tube]

The bookcase seems a bit deep compared to the height of the shelves. I'd cut at least one third of its depth. This would also move the left edge so it doesn't overlap with the right edge of the closet frame. The vertical lines of the dresser and the desk overlap even worse and could also do with some attention.

Otherwise it's all good.

[Uhfgood]

the desk is supposed to be wider than the dresser... meaning the desk should come out further from the wall than the dresser does.

Will improve it, and scan and upload a new version.  Thanks.

Keith

[Uhfgood]

Well here it is, black sketch number 2… things have been adjusted again… this time the quality may look a little worse, because I was attempting to not use sketchy lines, which produces crappy non-straight lines, verses sketchy straight ones… in any case this one is better in the fact that I added the details to the door, posters, and then I added some extra width to the computer desk, as well as decreased the depth and width of the book case, so now lines don't meet exactly… Hopefully this is more satisfactory.



Keith

[Oddysseus]

I'd say you're ready to move on to coloring.

Looks good so far.