a while ago I posted a demon sketch
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=20509.0
I've given it a bit of a redesign that I think fits the character better.
concept:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/demon_head.jpg)
when drawing the concept, I couldn't decide on the specifics of the body.
Anyway, take a look at the preliminary model, tell me what you think of the new look.Ã, I will probably be re-making it for the actual game, this is more of a preliminary test.
NOte: this is not textured yet, but you can see the shape.Ã,Â
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/syhtric4.jpg)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/syhtric2.jpg)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/syhtric1.jpg)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/syhtric3.jpg)
The demon is not inherently evil, because I do not believe in such a concept.Ã, His actions may seem evil to men, but that is only because we do not understand his perspective.Ã, He comes from the world of the dead, and he is immortal, so he's pretty accustomed to seeing death and he has never felt human loss so he can't possibl understand it.Ã, All the demons can understand is that it can be very funny to watch how the humans react when you poke holes in their babies.Ã, But, being immortal, they are very knowleable.Ã, I want my demon to convey a sense of fear, ominance, ancience.
after modelling the head, I have gone through my magic cards looking for inspiration, and decided to model the torso after Lord of the Pit
(http://www.m2k1.com/lord_of_the_pit.jpg)
alright and here's one more still untextured but gives a bit of a feel of the way I want him to look
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/syhtric_c.jpg)
My God, that looks absolutely amazing! :o
Since I don't know much about 3D modelling I can't really crit this, but to me, the nose sort of reminds me of a pig. And maybe the neck should be a little broader, mainly at the back.
The model looks really good, can't imagine how cool it will be when it's all done and textured.:)
:o
That is just... :o
No critics! :D
I kinda lliked it better without the glowing eyes. Like there are no eyes. Just the pits. and that they'd be a little bigger .
Whoa! Very very good. :o
But there is this one thing, the nose....like said earlier it's like a pigs nose.
The daemon's point of view... that's really interesting. If you can get players (humans) to understand this concept during the game (tough one), you can come up with a hell of a game.
One thing about your model:
It's excelent and well sculpted, but I liked it better when it looked more like an animal (in your other post).
(http://www.stefano.mega.nom.br/steer_skull.jpg)
Did you use ZBrush?
Cheers,
Stefano
Why does he look so evil? He's a demon, I understand that, but you say he's not inherently evil, and he's just really misunderstood by men. For me, as soon as I look at his face I tend to think otherwise. He looks evil, he looks nasty, he looks violent. I think I'd find it incredibly hard to identify with any 'morals' of this chap.
For what he is - this is an absolutely amazing sculpture. I've no crits on the structure, formation or technicalities of what you've done. I'd just like... i dunno... an identifiable demon...(?)
I think what he is aiming at the "to look and be evil is a human concept" stuff. If he looks evil to you, that's exactly how you must see it. You're human after all!
The interesting thing is, the perspective of the daemon. Picture yourself as a kid killing ants. The ants (supposing they could be capable of such complex thinking) would probably see you and your expression as evil. And you probably wouldn't think you're doing anything wrong. You're, in fact, having the time of your life! ;D
I said kid, because once you grow up a little bit, momma and daddy teach you that ants are living beings... that you should not kill'em... yadda, yadda.
Cheers,
Stefano
Hey,
Stefano has hit the nail on the head. The players will not identify with the demon, but I must understand the motives of the demon in order to come up with a good plot. There are a lot of elements of the story which the player will not necessarily know about, but which are there to help me make the story as full as possible.
So, Peter,
I DO want the demon to look as evil and badass as possible. I'm going to do my best to make the player fear him. But to destroy him, you must also understand what his motivations are. You cant trap an animal you dont understand.
The concept of the skull looked cool, but I veered away from the skull and wings for some logical reasons. First, it does not make sense for a skull to be a head, as cool as it may look. The wings are being removed because the demons can turn into black smoke sort of like the character in x-men 2, and they don't live in this world, and they don't need wings where they live.
Yes, to anyone who has seen ZBrush, it should be pretty obvious that it was used here :P I did not model it in ZBrush though. In fact, all the Zbrushing will have to be thrown away now that I have connected the head to the body, I had to change the mesh a bit.
Haddas,
The eyes are always the most difficult thing! Haha. Well, I don't know about pits...but I could try to make some scary looking regular eyeballs. Something to keep in mind, but I won't be getting into that until I'm done with the main mesh.
I'm not sure I agree that it has a pig nose...I suppose slightly it does, but it looks more like a the bones behind the nose to me. Anyway, the nose was the trickiest part to design I thought, but I'm fairly happy with it.
Ok, torso is coming along pretty well. I'm having trouble thinking of how to make the legs and feet better. I'll show you what I've got. Don't be afraid to do paintovers or anything like you do for regular sprites, it can still be helpful!
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/zb_body1.jpg)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/zb_body2.jpg)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/zb_body3.jpg)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/zb_body4.jpg)
the arms are a lot longer that you'd want in humanoid anatomy. Also, this guy looks strikingly like the shadow of the beast dude. A plus in my book
While head is Zbrush usage at its best, lower part of body looks... well, boring.
I would try giving him massive, strong feet... and maybe a
* Heavy killer scropion tail, which looks just like an extension of backbone
-or-
* Really big demonic wings (though they are probably super difficult to model :-\)
Enourmous fists and feet would rule very much.
Yea.. He needs like, hooves.. With spikes running along his legs and arms.. And just really big hands. Humanoid or claws, either would be awesome. .They just need to be BIG.
Hmph. I had wanted to make the demon a little less classical. I wanted him to be almost in the shape of a human, aside from the 2 horns. I didn't want wings because...I can't come up with a logical explanation for them. The wings would have to be ridiculously big for them to actually work. But if I can't make him extremely scary without giving him claws and wings, well then, he will have to have claws and wings. Is this more to your liking?
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/syhtric_concept3.jpg)
WOW!!!!!!! :o THAT THING IS THE COOLEST!!!!!!!!!
you must make WICKED GAMES!!!!!!!!!
more wrinkles, more veins, more rib visible through chest, you know what I'm saying?
yeah that would make it cooler cause if its unable to die it must be looking very old or some thing
i like it more with wings, ewhayt i don't like is the name, it doesn' really strike fear into my heart.
blehh....forget the wings, they look wrinkled and unusable. But you do need something to add to the fear. Something non-humanoid. A huge naked man in a mask is not really scary. Not got many ideas though....perhaps 4 arms? double jointed limbs? weird bumps/spikes/tentacles on the skin?
Btw, keep the claws! Demons can't rip out your heart and laugh at you with those blunt fingers!
Maybe add some hi tech stuff to him. Some guns to his hands and wires and stuff to his chest that keep him alive.
Hmmm, or maybe he isn't one of *those* deamons.
The new version looks very well, albeit is this the player character? Because if he's got wings, everyone'll want to fly instead of walking, but that's perhaps the way it'll be done. I think the arms look rather nice, even though they're longer than human proportions. It gives him/her/it a primal appearance. Rather brutal, but me likey.. :)
Is it asexual? I think of a male, due to body structure, but it's more or less sexless if you think about it.
2ma2,
No, it is not the player character.Ã, And his name is not Mologwar, that is the name of the race of demons -- and there is more than one Mologwar demon.Ã, They do not have sexual organs because the demons are not born and do not die, there is no evolution among demons.Ã, I will have an updated version of the demon in 3D shortly.
p.s. your English is horrible my friend!
ok, how about this?
(http://img239.echo.cx/img239/3116/newbody16fr.jpg)
Yeah very good, gives more of an evil like feeling to it.
I do not like the wings! (to me) Look like they belong to another creature and were sewed to the Mologwar.
I also think it is looking too human (head/chest/members size proportion). The lesser it looks human, the easier is going to be proving to your players that it has a completly different perspective about pain, death and human bonds.
I drew a sketch to exemplify what I'm saying (thow I think still is too "classical" as you said):
(http://www.stefano.mega.nom.br/daemon.jpg)
I believe a non-cliche look would fit your concept a lot better.
Congrats for your idea again, stuh.
Cheers,
Stefano
Which soft are you using to model this?
Are your first pics renders or just the shaded meshsmooth?
because they look somewhat blocky...
Are you going to animate this? cause I see some triangles in your mesh that, when meshsmoothed and animated may cause the mesh to react weird.
Other than that, i like the design
wait,,,is this poly-modeling or other? cause some images look like the ones obtained from rhino default render,,,,if this is not polymodeling, forget my previous post
Stefano,
wow! I really love your concept! I don't think I'm going to start all over like I'd have to do to make that...but if you like doing concept art, send me a pm...I've got more characters and if you'd be interested, you'd definitely be mentioned in the credits and have your concept art be little secrets that you can unlock at the end of the game.
fertoff,
yeah, going to animate it...facial animation, body animation, hopefull I'll be able to get the wings working, that will be a challenge for me. The black pics are ZB screenshots. The white pics are silo screenshots. I don't really avoid triangles, when I'm rendering as subdivision surfaces it doesn't really matter! so far modelled in silo and ZB...although I've been trying to switch over to modo as I work, I keep getting frustrated and doing it all in silo :P
Quote from: stuh505 on Tue 17/05/2005 06:38:32
I don't think I'm going to start all over like I'd have to do to make that...
Yes, I understand I could be a real pain. And yes, I'm definitely sending you a PM!
Happy modeling,
Stefano
okay, little update here. or big.
(http://img279.echo.cx/img279/2895/syhtricpromo25ga.jpg)
I hope we're done with the major crits, if anyone has problems with his body parts now please don't stress me with it
still open to crits on the texture
by the way, he is rigged now too :P
Looks like you just made an award winning pic. no more crits from anyone
Ok.
First off, I'm loving the pic.
Second of all, are you worried about lighting? Because I can see two different light sources. One is shining on his/it's feet, and the second source is from behind. If the light that is shining on his feet were from above then shouldn't it be on his/it's face as well?
I might be wrong. :-\
I too think he looks a bit too human, only that some of his muscles are removed (leaving weird cavities). I always have problems with wings, mainly because they're generally drawn too small to be functional.
Even his head is a bit too small and flat, imo.
Of course, the modelling is impressive, still.
I like the textures on the wings. I'd want to see similar texture on the body, it looks rather plastic now. The claws are sweet though..
My english is as my german when I'm that tired.. and my german is horrid ;D
I am not sure if you will find these useful, but I made two quick sprites, they might give you some ideas anyway.
(http://members.cox.net/veradin/demon.gif)
(http://members.cox.net/veradin/demon2.gif)
I really like it, no changes needed imo.
looks nice...
But i would have made it more massive, bigger wings, bigger muscles,,,similar to the walrog(was this the name?) that Gandalf fought against in LOTR 1
TheBrat499,
why thank you! I guess you didn't notice that all the normals on the left hand are reversed! haha, I don't know how that happened...
Raider,
well, the lighting doesn't really matter because what I'm making here is a character which will be used in cutscenes in the game. the lighting in this picture is just to show you guys right now...the lights will be different in different scenes.
QuoteBecause I can see two different light sources. One is shining on his/it's feet, and the second source is from behind. If the light that is shining on his feet were from above then shouldn't it be on his/it's face as well?
I might be wrong.
actually, there are 5 lightsources...and you are surely wrong, because my guess is that my computer is better at raytracing than you are :P
Andail,
heh, funny you should say that...because my feeling is that, although I really like this look for him, it's very inhuman...and my original concept for these demons were for them to look essentially like large black-skinned humans with 2 horns, no other differences. but, in my mind this was scary...and I couldn't make it look scary on paper without giving him claws and horns and wings and stuff. so, I'm not really bothered by him looking humanlike.
perhaps you missed the part where I asked everryone who had suggestions to change the modelling to keep them to theirselves at this point since making any changes to the model would mean throwing away all my work AFTER that step? I can't really change anything anymore without losing too much work!
ProgZ,
did you draw those sprites just for me? why..thank you. I can't say that they will help me at this point, though.
chicky,
thanks. your avatar looks pretty nice too ;)
fertoff,
yeah...I'm not really going for the Balrog look. I think I got carried away enough as it is.
please, no more comments on the shape of the creature, your words will only be hitting a brick wall..
I will be improving the texture hopefully, I should make the horns and claws look different from the skin tone.
I have made some small animations with it already, but I'm running into some technical difficulties preventing me from using texture in them at the moment, but I will have some teaser animations coming soon.