Suggestions for templates.

[PPAentertainment]

Hi!!
It's my first time here so I'm hoping I'm doing it correctly.
I developed several games with AGS over the years starting with Robotragedy and ending so far with Maverick Gunn and the Eye of Oggún and always I had to struggle a lot with the coding of the games because I had no knowledge of the subject and I still don't know. I had to keep checking the help to achieve things and I'm sure if one of you guys see the coding of my games you will laugh your hearts out.
Thats the reason I'll like to suggest adding to AGS full templates taking advantage of plugins and modules and having sets of GUIs, text boxes with cool animations, proper title rooms with a fully configured GUI to start the game, adjust options, see créditos, all the nice things that make a game look profesional.
For example a template for making Hidden Objects Puzzle Adventures or casual Adventures that comes with all the little details like an intuitive hint system, option for creating players, etcetera and a developer who has little notions of coding but has a knack for art and ideas can create a game like those and instead of unity people can choose AGS as a viable option.
Or a template for first person games like the Carol Reed or Nancy Drew series.
My suggestions are that the templates come with more flesh and an aspiring developer can start a game with not just a room and few details but with a base more solid.
AGS should be more oriented to people who love to try to make a game of their own but know no coding.
I tried to animate a GUI with Tween module and had to give up because couldnt make no head or tail of what to do.
I hope you can understand what I mean. I'm cuban and English it's not my mother tongue.
Thanks for the hard work keeping AGS alive and kicking.

[Crimson Wizard]

Hello!
I'd like to mentions several things.

1. Anyone can create game templates. "Game template" is simply a AGS project packed up in a file (name.agt), nothing else. In AGS editor you can do "File" -> "Make template from this game". You may do same thing using a stand-alone packing tool. After template is packed, the "name.agt" file may be copied to the Templates folder in the Editor, or "%APPDATA%\Local\AGS\Templates" folder, and it will appear for selection in the "New game" wizard.
There's a forum section for posting templates here: https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/modules-plugins-tools/ (although I can barely remember couple of these posted in recent years).
Similar thing can be done to room templates. Yes, rooms may also have templates.
Distributing a new game template along with AGS is mostly a question of download and disk size. If it's a good template useful for many people then we may add one to official distribution. Alternatively, we may create a separate distribution for templates (to save on download size for those who do not need these). But at the same time, nothing prevents someone from creating a template collection of their own, and provide for download.

2. Another option is to make demo game(s), that would demonstrate the basic and advanced features of AGS. This was proposed many times in the past, and here's the most recent thread on this topic: https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/adventure-related-talk-chat/crowd-sourced-of-an-open-sourced-ags-example-game-collaboration/

3. The development team of AGS is already quite busy with the AGS itself and short on collaborators; and this was always the case. There are only few people (1-4 depending on a moment) working on it in their spare time. This means that it would be most preferable that the task of creating new templates and demo games were delegated to the users of AGS (the game makers), since they already have good experience in making games, and also may know what the beginners need better.

This is why I believe that this suggestion should not be given to developers of AGS, but to AGS community. Let the community create templates and demo games, and then we may decide how to distribute these "officially", which is a less problem.

[PPAentertainment]

Hi:
Absolutely agree with You. It should be developers who provide templates. I made the suggestions in this section of the forum because I thought it covered them. Thanks for answering and for the hard work. Cheers!!

[Crimson Wizard]

I made the suggestions in this section of the forum because I thought it covered them.

This section is more about developing the program itself. It's difficult to say where to post this suggestion, but I would try "Advanced Technical Forum" perhaps. On another hand, if you have an actual idea and plan of a template but need help to create one, you may also try "Recruitment" board to get more people in, like coders or artists.

In any case, I think, it's best to begin with setting up a template "specification". Write down what the template's purpose is, and which features should it include. Then it will become more clear what is necessary to make one, what code and which assets (graphics and others). Maybe someone will be able to help with coding in "Advanced Technical Forum".

[PPAentertainment]

Hi:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to write, if thats the case, I'm very sorry.
I'm happy that a new version of AGS is coming and I read about the new stuff and I believe is all great but beyond the better font renderer, I found that most of it won't be of much use to me and other users that have no big knowledge of coding. I understand the idea behind all the improvements but the editor that all wannabe amateur developers choose to make games at a time when the genre was almost dead, is becoming less dumb-user friendly. I think that it would be great if AGS comes with templates or something like that, incorporating all the nice things that the new changes provide. For example, the Inbetween module is used in games and you can see many nice effects on the GUIs, but for me, thats quantum physics and then, I can't use it on my games. I hope I make myself clear. I'm from Cuba and English is not my mother tongue. In total what I want to say is that all the good stuff added to AGS should be accessible to coders and no coders by having templates with examples that can be copied and studied to learn and improve. I know too that is a work of love. I respect that a lot.
Thanks for reading all My bla bla bla.

[lapsking]

 I don't know anything about AGS 4.0 improvements but in general I quiet agree with you. What made AGS attractive to me was that it's an intermediate engine programming wise which is more than enough for a beginner like me. There are lots of people who just want to mainly enjoy the creative part of the game making like story and art, rather than going deep into programming, though programming/scripting needs creativity too (but you know what I mean). My dream as a child was to become a game developer but as soon as I realized what should I face to get there I gave up the idea and studied painting. It's possible to hire a programmer but it's costly and most indie game makers are bankrupt. Though there are people on the forums to help with scripting, which I really appreciate. Anyway AGS has been working for me, so I can't complain. But hope developers don't forget about "if this then that" so-called programmers like us.

[PPAentertainment]

Thats right. AGS has worked for me and I wouldnt trade it for another. It's just that one play many new games and see the real possibilities of the engine to create professional looking games, but you can't do it because You can't tap into that due to lacking code knowledge. And those details can be there easily and just concentrate on delivering a good story and the best graphics you can create. Something like that.

[PPAentertainment]

Sorry I'm writing too mucho, just add that I don't mean to have on a template all the mechanics that a coder can use on his or her Game in terms of gameplay. I refer mostly to the visuals and mechanics of interfaces, GUIs, inventories, stuff like that.

[Crimson Wizard]

@PPAentertainment , I believe you have already made a suggestion about templates, and we had a short discussion about that:
https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/editor-development/suggestions-for-templates/

If it's the same thing, then i'd rather ask to continue that conversation instead of starting a new one.

Just like back then, all I can only say is that it's rather a task for the community and game makers to create templates and demo games, as people who work on the engine already spend enough of their spare time on it, and I don't think it's fair to also request them for making additional materials .

Unfortunately, there does not seem to be much interest from community members. Even with the new "demo game", after 12 years of AGS being "open source", the new demo game was only discussed a little, and afaik 1 room designed, and this is where it stopped:
https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/adventure-related-talk-chat/let-s-build-a-new-ags-demo-game!/

So, unless there is a good amount of participation from community members, this problem will remain.

[PPAentertainment]

I totally agree. Of course the people concentrated on developing the engine and editor are overly busy. Yes, I understand. Sorry for bringing that up again. I did it because having a new version coming I wished for more. Thanks for the reply, I really do. Keep the good work!!

[Snarky]

I understand the idea behind all the improvements but the editor that all wannabe amateur developers choose to make games at a time when the genre was almost dead, is becoming less dumb-user friendly.

How is it becoming less dumb-user friendly?

As for the templates/examples you mention, it's a lot of effort to ask for to have people make a whole bunch of special-purpose demos. Besides, there are a lot things like that already available:

-A bunch of AGS games are open-source
-A bunch of AGS modules already come with demos
-Most AGS modules that don't come with a demo do offer code examples for how to use them

[lapsking]

Just like back then, all I can only say is that it's rather a task for the community and game makers to create templates and demo games, as people who work on the engine already spend enough of their spare time on it, and I don't think it's fair to also request them for making additional materials.

You guys are already doing us a big favor by upgrading AGS in exchange for annoying you with dumb questions and requests. But they say free favors after a while become responsibility We are just being greedy, don't get cross. Thank you all AGS developers.

[Crimson Wizard]

@PPAentertainment , @lapsking
Just a note, I merged the new topic with an older one, because it's practically same, so it's better to continue the conversation in the same thread, if there's a need to do so.

In regards to the issue, I actually do know that AGS lacks beginner friendly tutorials and demos. While there are some available, they are either old (and do not demonstrate newer features), or spread around the internet. Open source games are not always good example to learn for beginners either, because they were not written with a thought of teaching. Some have complicated code without much comments, others are frankly not written well. I've seen open sourced games which still use ancient and deprecated commands for no good reason (maybe the author was studying old tutorials).

It would be a good thing to have a collection of beginner-friendly materials available in one central location, like the wiki pages on this website.

But the problem with this, as I keep saying, is that this cannot be achieved without community effort, because engine developers cannot handle this all only by themselves.

So this may be solved only if some people from AGS community would be willing to organize such project, and either write wanted templates and demo games, or at least make a list of tasks, and recruit more people to perform these. This should not be a request to engine developers, but a request to a creative community.

Personally, I can only give some advice and recommendation, but I won't be able to do this organization work.
Not only I'm busy, but, frankly, I have low hope about success in this matter, seeing how little interest in such thing there was in the past years.

To summarize: I think this request would be best to post in a general forum section, addressing the community, not engine developers. And it's better to be more specific about what you want, that is, not just "better templates", but explaining what should be in these templates, or demo games in detail.

[lapsking]

To summarize: I think this request would be best to post in a general forum section, addressing the community, not engine developers. And it's better to be more specific about what you want, that is, not just "better templates", but explaining what should be in these templates, or demo games in detail.

Yes, I understand. We were actually asking the cook there aren't enough forks on the table while enjoying free service. But updating tutorials will be a great help, so we can understand what's the other half of the engine about. Obviously this task is too big for me to chew, otherwise I wouldn't be here asking for more tutorials. But meanwhile, I really appreciate anyone who helps any other one in the forums.

[RootBound]

So this may be solved only if some people from AGS community would be willing to organize such project, and either write wanted templates and demo games, or at least make a list of tasks, and recruit more people to perform these.

Yes, I keep putting off finishing the backgrounds for the new demo game. Once I finish this month's MAGS entry I can make this more of a priority and hopefully help get the new demo game off the ground before too much longer.

[lapsking]

Yes, I keep putting off finishing the backgrounds for the new demo game. Once I finish this month's MAGS entry I can make this more of a priority and hopefully help get the new demo game off the ground before too much longer.

Thanks, I probably gave up AGS in first few days if there wasn't a demo for Tumbleweed template. If you wanted to integrate some of my oil backgrounds to your project like mushrooms in a rose garden, let me know. I can also design characters but they walk much better backwards. What else can I do beside moral support? I can also sort out sound effects if you are interested. Otherwise totally useless.

[RootBound]

@lapsking sound effects would be great! Right now the plan for the game is basically to pick up a key, walk through a door, and pick up a gem, so sound effects that could be helpful might be footsteps on outside path, footsteps on wood floor, a wooden door opening and closing, and maybe a power-up sound when the gem is picked up.

Check out the thread here for what has been discussed so far:
https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/adventure-related-talk-chat/let-s-build-a-new-ags-demo-game!/

[lapsking]

Sure! Consider it done. I imagine you also need a soundeffect for unlocking the door with the key. Thanks for the link.