Hi,
I just acquired a copy of 3D studio Max. Awesome!!!
However, most of the tutorials I can find on the net for 3DSM are for intermediate users. I'm a complete beginner. I also can't download big Video Tutorials as my internet connection is pitifully slow.
Does anybody know where I can get good beginners tutorials?
3d Cafe have some free tutorials. Some are a little advanced, but there's a couple of good basic ones too.
http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/tut3ds.asp
If you want to get an actual book, check out "3ds max for Dummies". It's an excellent book (as are all the "...For Dummies" books) and helped me out greatly.
I reccomend learning Blender instead and stop teh pirating.. The pirating is bad. Teh pirating is teh reason programs cost so much. Teh pirates are evil. Teh pirates ate my dog. Teh pirates pillaged my room. Teh pirates raped my grandma. teh pirates are .... *gurgle* *cough* *choke* *thump*
Yeah. You're right. I guess £3,000 isn't all that much, anyway.
I didn't say buy 3D Studio Max.. I just said learn Blender.. it's free, and can do the same things. At least the same stuff you want to learn. The only reason you would need 3D Studio Max is if you owned a 3D Graphics business and wanted to be "professional".
But you're just learning 3D, so Blender would suffice.
Just my 2 cents.
God, why am I such a worthless and evil person?
Quote from: Cale on Tue 11/05/2004 22:03:27
God, why am I such a worthless and evil person?
Yes, meditate on that some more, and I'm sure he'll give you an answer! Goto www.renderosity.com, for resources and tutorials. You need to register an account first though!
Also, stop the pirating!!! Just like LGM said. It's just weak and stupid and YES evil! I think people have too much in the rich country's. As I think of billions of people who have to live of nearly 200euro's every year, I start wondering why it's such a big deal to pay for a good program in wich has put alot more effort that you will work ever in your entire life!
second.... just ignore me ;) Everyone does!
Geez, you guys. 3D studio max is an extremely expensive program, and I don't blame Cale for aquiring a pirated version. (you can get it in Shanghai for $2)
To learn 3DSmax, I'd suggest just messing around with it trying stuff. Just about anything is possible (I'm assuming you have version 6 like I do), so just imagine what you want and then look it up in the help how to make it.
I recommend 3Dtotal.com (I believe that's the correct URL) for free tutorials.
Minimi,
I am sorry that you are jealous that I have so much more than you.
While I could afford to purchase 3D studio max, I choose not to, because I enjoy basking in evil and money and evil. Most people who live in Ireland, which is a very, very insanely rich country, could afford to buy 3D Studio out of their weekly wages!!! Continue to be jealous of us here in the rich, rich west, Minimi. We are so rich. You should be jealous.
Why use Blender, which is free and crap, when I can use 3D studio max, which is as good as free, and excellent? I mean, would I even notice a difference in my income if I purchased 3D studio? Probably not.
And although it would make absolutely no difference to Autodesk if I continued to pirate it, as they specifically market it for studios that can afford it and don't cater for home users, I think I'll use my vast, vast sums of money and wealth to purchase a copy.
Damn, I am so wealthy. Oh, there's something in my shoe. It's irritating me. Hold on. Wait. Wait. Wait.... Oh, it's just a huge chunk of gold. Silly me! It must have slipped into my shoe while I was walking across my yard filled with gold pebbles, or perhaps it was when I went for a swim in my pool filled with gold coins. Or maybe it fell off the bling that hangs from my neck, which is also gold plated, making moving my head rather difficult.
P.S. LGM, the reason the program costs so much isn't because it's pirated. It's pirated because it costs so much. Autodesk are aiming the product at studios and developers, not home users. It doesn't actually make a difference if I pirate it, because I could never have afforded it anyway, and in the long run it's helping Autodesk because more users are getting familiar with the 3Dsm interface. This sounds crazy, and it sounds like an excuse for pirating, but look at Maya PLE. They caught on, and released PLE, because they saw that by nurturing and encouraging users to use Maya, they were setting themselves up for a bigger market in the future. This is also why Autodesk don't actually do anything to prevent home users from pirating 3D Studio; it's harmless to them. It would only harm them if their target market started doing it.
Exactly right, Cale. I have a copy of Blender lying around, but I definitely wouldn't use that for 3D modeling.
Me and Geof are having a moment. Total moment.
By the way, call me Yufster.
Quote from: Cale on Tue 11/05/2004 22:42:41
Total moment.
Totally sued!!!
Well, it's not actually weither they caught you or not, because they won't and noone is doing anything against it, but it's more like principles. I mean, it is STEALING, and i.m.o. stealing is wrong, and so I say personally, don't be a pirate, because then you are a loser. No discussion, it's undeniable!
Yeah, but the people in India and China selling pirated copies have to make a living, too.
You're just jealous that I'm so much richer than you.
I can't help being rich. We're all born that way in the rich west. We'd give you guys some money, but that might upset the balance of us being rich and you being poor.
I do so love being rich.
Drop the sarcasm, it doesn't help anything.
What he's trying to say is, sure, you can pirate and you most likely won't get caught.
But if you could murder someone and not be punished, would you do it? Somehow I doubt you would.
Yes, yes! Get good at 3D Studio Max, then give me all your renders! ;D
Now, when being a complete n00b in 3D-modelling, 90% of tutorials will just make you dizzy. Start with something simpler: (Insta-tutorial coming next:)
1. Create a box
2. Apply "edit mesh" modifier (or convert it into an editable mesh)
3. Figure out how to get into polygon sublevel selection
4. Select one side of the box
5. Start entering nubers into "extrude" field
6. select different polygon
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until you manage to make something that looks like a house
Tada! You have used
box modelling and made something that can be named on this planet. This is where learning starts. Next, Go to vertex sublevel and play with those nice blue dots too. Then add an omnilight to the scene and start playing around with things. Soon, you're ready to do some tutorials.
This wasn't especially written to Yufster/Cale, but to all guys that fell here and are a bit interested too.
BTW,
QuoteBut if you could murder someone and not be punished, would you do it? Somehow I doubt you would.
I would...
http://www.wings3d.com
You're comparing me harmlessly pirating 3D studio max (and it is harmless, I'm not just saying that from the piraters point of view) with me murdering a person and getting away with it?
How the hell..?! Where you there that night?!
...Or did Mark squeal?
P.S. Thanks InCreator! I may get your MSN or AIM SN and milk you for information!!!
Yes I'm comparing. It's the same idea.
Grand Theft and Murder both put you in jail..
That's stupid. That's like comparing murder and theft.
Oh, wait. That's what you just did.
My 'theft', which is what it technically is, I admit... isn't hurting anybody.
If I went out to murder somebody, I would have to acknowledge that I was causing the suffering and subsequent death of a person, as well as the suffering of people he knew and his family. I would have to make a definite conscious decision to take the life of another living being, with massive consequences whether I was caught or not.
You can't compare the two.
That's stupid. That's like comparing murder and theft.
Oh, wait. That's what you just did.
My 'theft', which is what it technically is, I admit... isn't hurting anybody.
If I went out to murder somebody, I would have to acknowledge that I was causing the suffering and subsequent death of a person, as well as the suffering of people he knew and his family. I would have to make a definite conscious decision to take the life of another living being, with massive consequences whether I was caught or not.
You can't compare the two.
Bah. There's no use in arguing.
Just think of it this way. If and when you apply for a professional job and Computer graphics. What are you gonna tell them about how you learned what you know. You gonna say: "Oh, I learned to model with pirated copies of 3D Studio Max and Maya... Yup.."
Somehow I doubt you'd get the job.
Which is majorly the reason I quit pirating.
Yes. Because that is going to happen. I am not going to say, "I used to mess around with 3D packages when I was younger and got to know them, and then went into college and did a four year degree course at Ballyfermot" and stuff like this. I am going to say, "I learned to model with pirated copies of 3D studio Max!!!"
Besides which I don't think they'd care. They're not going to employ you because you learned to model with a pirated copy of 3D studio when you were younger? If anything, that shows dedication and a desire to learn. It shows you were deeply interested in these things when you were younger.
Which I am.
QuoteWhich is majorly the reason I quit pirating.
...And why I continue pirating. So I won't have to say "Sorry, but I have no idea what Maya or 3ds Max is, because had no cash to get them. Please employ me so I could get paid for not knowing yet and buy them when I'm paid."
Of course, I'll be 3d modeller in any game company with lines like that in five seconds. Oh yeah.
In matter fact, due my small HD (and wallet), there have been days where AGS in *only* legal piece of software on my CPU.
Arr!
They invented college for situations such as that, InCreator.
And that's exactly why Blender, Wings3D, Maya PLE, Gmax, etc. exist.
Yes, maybe really. But I really don't think that heaven's doors will be closed because I pirated few programs. And I don't care much, neither even if they will. We live only once. Why make it difficult? After all, I'm a single, worthless human being with low morale and low intelligence.
You said it all ;)
So there's no problem then!
LGM makes a point in that pirating is wrong. If you were the maker of that program...wait...you'd be damn rich. Do what's one more f*cking pirate gonna do? Enough people buy it. Bah! Who cares!
*loads up his pirated copies of 3ds max 5, Poser 5, Bryce 5, Adobe Photoshop, Macromedia Dreamweaver MX, Flash MX 2004 Pro, Adobe Premiere 6.5 Pro, ....... *
With your crap-ass computer you're lucky to get 3DS 5 to load up, nontheless all the other programs at the same time.
Anyways.. Yes, you have all those programs, but do you EVER use them?
I've watched videos of people modelling with 3DS Max, and they didn't use any different techniques than I do with Blender.
The differences are in the toolkits (Blender doesn't have them because they are so huge in filesize, which is why Blender is only ~6mb, they aren't all that useful anyway) and in the renderers. Blender's rendering system is fast catching up. It doesn't have Sub-Surface-Scattering yet (one of the keys to realism) but Yafray is testing it and Blender can internally render with Yafray.
Blender is a pro tool that is more vastly used by beginners. There are tons of beginner tutorials for it, and a FREE manual on the internet for it. The techniques are the same.. so learn Blender, then in college you'll learn to do the same thing in 3DS Max, with different hotkeys. You're looking to do game models, right? Well I happen to have made a game model in the past few days. (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v96/shbazjinkens/Clipbo24ard01.jpg) Granted, it's for a first-person shooter project with a free game engine, but do you honestly see much difference between that and what people with 3DS Max are pumping out? 70% of the finished result is dependent on the texturing, which is usually done in Photoshop.
Some small gaming firms are seeing Blender as a viable alternative, here is some evidence (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=hreadid=142796&highlight=blender). They see that 3ds Max costs $3k and does little more than Blender, and now they're recruiting from one of the two best CG forums on the internet.
So you see, disregarding piracy, Blender is still better. Whore.
Thank you shibby
Do I detect a hint of jealousy, LilGryphMaster? Maybe you'd feel better if we send you a copy of it, too? No offense, I'm only kidding. :)
I've used Blender, and frankly the interface is trash. It's hard to rotate the camera around while you're working, and the features are very limited. Since when can Blender calculate dynamics and simulate cloth and useful things like that? Why is it that people have used 3Dsmax for games and movies (Starcraft, Warcraft 3, etc.) and I've never heard of even that used Blender?
Indeed there are alternative free programs (for example, I use the Gimp 2 instead of Photoshop). But when it comes to advanced 3D rendering, Blender just doesn't cut it. And that is why I own a (legal) copy of 3Dsmax6.
Pirating is wrong. Full Stop. You can't deny that illegally obtaining software is going to put you on a moral highground. And, whilst it won't close heaven's gates, you'll have to be prepared to take the consequences.
That said, I don't think any number of people saying "it's bad" is going to stop piraters. me included. I have a couple of programs that I (unproudly) must say aren't the most legal pieces of software in the universe. I hardly ever use them, but I keep them for bragging rights. I know I shouldn't, but it's always fun to find a completely arrogant and stuck up computer snob and say "well I have Corel Painter 8 and Photoshop CS and Fruity Loops whatever-the-new-version-is and YOU don't. Sucker".
Pirating is basically the same as shoplifting, except hardly anyone chases you when you do it on the net. Why's that? Because the companies are already so damn rich they couldn't care less. If they REALLY wanted to stop it, they wouldn't release stupid 30-day-trials where you only need a simple keygen to unlock it. They'd upload SPECIALLY made trials WITHOUT a save/load, and with only half the number of available tools...
That's my sad attempt at justification, anyhow...
Let me tell you all a little story. Maybe it will shut you all up. This would be a good thing.
I am going to college. My parents pay for my tuition out of pocket. Not because they are rich, but because they want to. At this college, which is a very nice college that is mostly a techical school, I took a class that was ALL about 3D Studio Max. It was the only thing we used. I took two semesters of this class.
And I didn't learn a damn thing. The version we were using was an outdated educational version that lacked many of the functions of the professional version. The books we had to use were for an even older, more outdated version of the program. The teacher didn't really teach us, because he had another class at the exact same time (mainly because there were only 4 of us in the 3D Studio Max class). The computers in the particular building don't have internet access, so using online tutorials was out of the question unless I printed them out from home or something. If I were to try and use the program now, I'd have to teach myself how to really use it, and I would probably have to use online tutorials. And, yes, I would have to use a pirated version of it.
The point of the story is that going to college to learn something isn't always the best option. I would've prefered a clean start with a pirated version than what I got at school.
Now, all of you 'OMG you shudn't pirate' people should ease off a bit. Yelling at everyone from your pulpit won't change the fact that they're going to do it. You can state your opinion, of course, but don't shove it down the throat of people who disagree, because it's like walking in quicksand. The harder you push, the quicker you're going to sink.
As for the Blender argument, sure some companies may be using it now, but most still use 3ds. Let's say someone learns Blender's interface and become top 3d modeller supreme! Let's say this person goes into a job interview. "I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max. If you want to work here, you'd better learn the interface." This someone declares, "But I am so used to Blender! And it does just the same stuff as your expensive program!" Let's say someone else comes in to interview with the same company at a later date. "Yes, I do know 3D Studio Max," This elseperson says. "I am well versed in the interface." Now, if you were the company, who would you chose? The person who would have to learn a whole new interface and program, or the person who already knows the interface and program?
The More You Know!
I'm with Miss P on this one. I did a Computer Science A-Level a few years ago. Only, we were using an early version of basic on outdated Acorns. If memory serves, there was also a bbc micro in the room. At a college a few miles away, my friend was learning Java. It might be better to go to learn it properly, but don't count on every place being able to teach you properly.
And the Blender/3d SM.. i'd start with which every was easiest. If that means resorting pirating, then shiver me timbers, land ahoy, etc.
Hugs
Iqu
Also, I quit the computing course, universities said it was a complete waste of time. I went thru crap for a year and a half for nothing.
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Wed 12/05/2004 05:03:40I've used Blender, and frankly the interface is trash. It's hard to rotate the camera around while you're working, and the features are very limited. Since when can Blender calculate dynamics and simulate cloth and useful things like that? Why is it that people have used 3Dsmax for games and movies (Starcraft, Warcraft 3, etc.) and I've never heard of even that used Blender?
The interface isn't trash, you just don't know how to use it. There are orbit and pan functions that are controled with (numpad) 4, 8, 2, and 6. The middle mouse button controls free rotate, and if you are properly centered in f/l/r views, it works just fine. Calculating dynamics, simulating cloth, and "useful things like that" are toolkit functions. Those are all texturing problems, no? I simulate cloth using a simple Gimp created texture that I map to normals and displacement. People use 3DS Max (and Maya and others) because of render-to-texture functions (in games) and because it has sub-surface-scattering (in movies).
Quote from: Pesty on Wed 12/05/2004 09:17:55
I didn't learn a damn thing. The version we were using was an outdated educational version that lacked many of the functions of the professional version. The books we had to use were for an even older, more outdated version of the program. The teacher didn't really teach us, because he had another class at the exact same time (mainly because there were only 4 of us in the 3D Studio Max class). The computers in the particular building don't have internet access, so using online tutorials was out of the question unless I printed them out from home or something. If I were to try and use the program now, I'd have to teach myself how to really use it, and I would probably have to use online tutorials. And, yes, I would have to use a pirated version of it.
Sounds like your reputable technical school just wasn't so great to me.. My school had internet access in every building no matter what they taught there and all of the programs were the very latest there were. I would suspect that most "reputable high-quality" schools wouldn't have any situation like that at all, because I've seen results from students of art schools at CGTalk and the results were quite nice. You're wailing on anti-piracy because of a fault in your education.
Quote from: Pesty on Wed 12/05/2004 09:17:55As for the Blender argument, sure some companies may be using it now, but most still use 3ds. Let's say someone learns Blender's interface and become top 3d modeller supreme! Let's say this person goes into a job interview. "I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max....
Nonsense, I know of Maya users hired in 3DS studios and all other combinations. If the final result is the same and doesn't take any longer, they're not going to give a damn. 3D modelling is the same in every program, with different key combinations and additional/less features. The better artist gets hired, because that's what really matters.
by dynamics and simulating cloth he means assigning mass to objects and creating a scene where the objects interact through a physical simulation moving and rolling and bouncing and deforming like cloth
Quote from: MrColossal on Wed 12/05/2004 19:23:50
by dynamics and simulating cloth he means assigning mass to objects and creating a scene where the objects interact through a physical simulation moving and rolling and bouncing and deforming like cloth
Oh, like Topix cloth (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/viz/max/topix/Topix.html). As I said, such things are considered toolkits and aren't included in the main binary to save filesize (in consideration of those who would never use them and to load tons faster). There are lots more, like MakeHuman (http://projects.blender.org/projects/makeh/), which is Blender's free Poser add-on. I haven't tryed it, I think a downside is that you have to make your own hair and teeth.
However, I guess it's a bad thing for people who would rather rant about how crappy it is than actually see if the features are available.
On a side note, I guess most Blender'ers are reading this, so check out Volume II (http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=documentation&file=index) of the user guide, recently released.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Wed 12/05/2004 18:23:01
Quote from: Pesty on Wed 12/05/2004 09:17:55
I didn't learn a damn thing. The version we were using was an outdated educational version that lacked many of the functions of the professional version. The books we had to use were for an even older, more outdated version of the program. The teacher didn't really teach us, because he had another class at the exact same time (mainly because there were only 4 of us in the 3D Studio Max class). The computers in the particular building don't have internet access, so using online tutorials was out of the question unless I printed them out from home or something. If I were to try and use the program now, I'd have to teach myself how to really use it, and I would probably have to use online tutorials. And, yes, I would have to use a pirated version of it.
Sounds like your reputable technical school just wasn't so great to me.. My school had internet access in every building no matter what they taught there and all of the programs were the very latest there were. I would suspect that most "reputable high-quality" schools wouldn't have any situation like that at all, because I've seen results from students of art schools at CGTalk and the results were quite nice. You're wailing on anti-piracy because of a fault in your education.
Quote from: Pesty on Wed 12/05/2004 09:17:55As for the Blender argument, sure some companies may be using it now, but most still use 3ds. Let's say someone learns Blender's interface and become top 3d modeller supreme! Let's say this person goes into a job interview. "I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max....
Nonsense, I know of Maya users hired in 3DS studios and all other combinations. If the final result is the same and doesn't take any longer, they're not going to give a damn. 3D modelling is the same in every program, with different key combinations and additional/less features. The better artist gets hired, because that's what really matters.
Where did I say anything about Maya? Where did 'wail on anti-piracy'? Listen, I'm just saying that education isn't ALWAYS the best option. I'm just trying to help you understand a couple of the greys instead of the black and white you're trying to argue with. To be honest, I don't like piracy (of the software kind, of course). I don't pirate. All of the programs I have I own, except for a couple very hard to get games and such that I delete after I play. I, personally, am anti-piracy. But that doesn't mean I can't see both sides of the issue. And that doesn't mean I have the right to yell at everyone who DOES pirate.
Yes, I'm talking about cloth dynamics.
I've used Blender for quite some time now (just for that 'programming games' part), and I definitely prefer using 3Dsmax for modeling and rendering and animating. There's a reason 3Dsmax is being sold and Blender is free. Think about it.
The only reason I have a legal copy of 3Dsmax is because I get a huge discount on it. Otherwise I wouldn't have it. It is very expensive, but let's face it: it's worth it.
Oh, and why I find the camera movement awkward? The camera pivot point is always wrong and it just feels unnatural. I've used more 3D programs than just 3Dsmax, so it's not because it is what I am accustomed to.
Okay, so maybe your against piracy. Just say so and leave it at that. But please please stop trying to force your values on everyone else.
Okay, so you buy some pirated software from China/India. Consider the $2 charity. They've got to eat too.
Quote from: Pesty on Wed 12/05/2004 20:32:02
Where did I say anything about Maya? Where did 'wail on anti-piracy'? Listen, I'm just saying that education isn't ALWAYS the best option. I'm just trying to help you understand a couple of the greys instead of the black and white you're trying to argue with.
It's irrelevant whether you were talking about Maya or not, I'm saying that studios aren't dead-set on their artists using only one tool (IE Maya users being hired in a 3DS studio). If you're amazing in one app, then chances are you're going to be amazing in any of them once you get a feel for it. Knowing every feature in 3DS doesn't mean crap if you aren't an artist. I think they're not going to care if you know Blender better, and they might hire you anyways because they can spare the $3k and get the same results. I think this because..
QuoteI know of Maya users hired in 3DS studios and all other combinations.
I'm not arguing black and white, I don't care if she pirates, I'm just pissed that you guys are talking down a worthy open-source project that I've had great results with. It's always the same crap too, "Bad interface, it doesn't have this or this.." and usually the problem is with the user and not the application.
QuoteThere's a reason 3Dsmax is being sold and Blender is free. Think about it.
Uh, why don't you think about it. Blender wasn't released for free because it was crap (on that note, is AGS crap because it's free, thus making all costly apps better?). Initially there was a "C-key" which was bought, and then there was Publisher version for sale which was meant to compete with web applications like flash. After that, the sources were bought for $100,000 US by the Blender users and some corporate sponsors and it was made an open source project. Since only 6 months ago, major strides have been made with Blender and major strides will continue to be made. One day it's probably going to be better than all of the pro applications.
If you've ever programmed on Unix, it's like VI. It sucks at first, but once you know the key combinations suddenly you're doing everything you did before, but 3 times faster.
but isn't Geoffkahn the only one who said the blender interface is trash? I think he's entitled to his opinion just like you are for yours. If his first impression of Blender was "This sucks" than isn't that fine? It shouldn't make your experience of Blender any worse. My first impression of Blender was "What the hell is going on here?" and i deleted it in probably 10 minutes. That's no slight to the good work they're doing at Blender, I've just put more work into learning 3dstudio Max and I don't want to learn an entirely new interface. The same reason I don't try out any of the other free programs.
and pesty didn't say anything bad about Blender as far as I can see...
bah, anyway
No 3d app is simple so far as I'm concerned, nor is it simple to obtain genuinely good results.
Gimp is not Photoshop but can do the same thing in the same way that Blender is not 3DS Max but can (usually) do the same things (especially in modelling).
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21246&highlight=rhino
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php4358
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24704
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24454&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24386
Actually, generally anything by RobertT or endi at elYsiun is going to be good.
Look, I'm sure Blender is great, But we're getting WAY off topic. This post isn't 'Let's all argue about piracy and which program is better', it's 'let's give yufster some tutorials'. If she hadn't hinted at the fact that she got her program illegally, this post would've died off after people gave her good resources. Which people have done. Now, I'm not trying to be a mod or anything, but maybe someone should start a new post that is actually about what you're all arguing about and let this one either die off or get locked, so that people who are actually looking for 3D Studio Max tutorials won't get confused.
Jeez Shba. Eric makes a post in which he doesn't say anything bad about Blender and you're trying your best to prove that it isn't bad. Take a nap or something and come back tomorrow.
My post was first directed at Yufster, that there were tons of beginner tuts for Blender and that it is a good app to start on because of all of the online resources here (http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=13826.40#msg167396).
Then, enter:
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Wed 12/05/2004 05:03:40
I've used Blender, and frankly the interface is trash.
and
Quote from: Pesty on Wed 12/05/2004 09:17:55"I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max. If you want to work here, you'd better learn the interface." This someone declares, "But I am so used to Blender! And it does just the same stuff as your expensive program!" Let's say someone else comes in to interview with the same company at a later date. "Yes, I do know 3D Studio Max," This elseperson says. "I am well versed in the interface." Now, if you were the company, who would you chose? The person who would have to learn a whole new interface and program, or the person who already knows the interface and program?
The More You Know!
Typical misinformation and sarcasm.
I wasn't directing anything toward Eric, and please don't tell me to take a nap.
I still maintain that if you follow the guide or (if you can find recent ones) online tutorials you shouldn't have a problem with Blender, people who have problems with it are the ones who go in and say "I can't understand this" and promptly leave. Those who care enough to learn will. Those who have 3DS max don't care because they already know and have 3ds Max, as Eric stated above. Yuf just started with it, so why not try another app? The user guides (http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=documentation&file=index) explain it quite nicely.
Okay, I'm sorry I said some pretty harsh things about Blender, and the interface is just my personal opinion. Don't get offended. I'm happy that you like Blender and it's working out for you.
If you had a choice between Blender and 3Dsmax 6 (free of charge), which one would you pick?
Shbaz, go take a look at some images and movies made with 3Dsmax6. They'll be sure to amaze you! What other 3D renderer is able to actually render individual light photons when lighting a scene?
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Thu 13/05/2004 01:59:47If you had a choice between Blender and 3Dsmax 6 (free of charge), which one would you pick?
I'd like to try 3DS actually, especially because of some of the things it has that Blender still lacks. I still think Blender will catch up though, because features are popping up fast.
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Thu 13/05/2004 01:59:47Shbaz, go take a look at some images and movies made with 3Dsmax6. They'll be sure to amaze you! What other 3D renderer is able to actually render individual light photons when lighting a scene?
Yafray (http://www.coala.uniovi.es/~jandro/noname/) (which is internally used in Blender).
(http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v96/shbazjinkens/yafray.jpg)
Sub-Surface-Scattering (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3683853.stm) is more impressive if you've read up on it, very cool stuff. I don't know if it's in 3DS Max or if you have to export to another renderer. Gollum used it, as did some Lucas characters in Star Wars. As I said, it's coming in Yafray (and Blender).
The images are the work of the artist, not the tool (for the most part). I've seen some pretty crappy stuff done with every prog.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Thu 13/05/2004 01:49:58
Typical misinformation and sarcasm.
Misinformation? Look, I was just making an example. If you were a boss at a company and you used Blender (woe for me to say you'd use anything else) and someone came in to work for you and they had no idea how to use the interface, would you spend your resources to train them to use it or would you hire someone who already knew how to use Blender? Think about it before you get pissed off at me for no reason yet again.
Shbaz, seriously, you are taking this all WAAAAAAAY too seriously. Unless you, like, MADE Blender, or invested a lot of money in the creation of it or something, you should really think about not reacting as if we were talking about your first born child or something. Lighten up.
The '3D Studio Max' Thread
a short play by DGMacphee
(based on a true story)
Act 1
Cale: I need 3D Studio Max tutorials.
LGM, Minimi, Peter Thomas: OMG Piracy is a crime!!! You shouldn't pirate cause it's a crime! People who pirate are weak and stupid! Use Blender!
Cale, Geoffkhan, Pesty: STFU!!! Stop being so sanctimonious! You're all jealous! You won't get a job if you use Blender! Feed people in India and China!
Act 2
shbazjinkes: Blender rules!
Geoffkhan and Mr Colossal: No, it sucks.
Pesty: And people won't employ you if you use it!
shbazjinkes: WTF?!?! You're all full of misinformation and sarcasm!!!
Act 3
DGMacphee: I'm going to write a play about all this and win a Tony Award.
Brian Dennehy: The winner of the best play for 2004 is... DGMacphee!
DGMacphee: Sweet!
ENDE.
(Note: This play rocks!)
Hahahah, yes indeed that play rocks!
Wow.
Okay, back to the original question from Cale.
Anb the winner of the best play for 2004 is... DGMacphee!
SWEET!!!
That play rules.
Back on topic, try here, Yufster: http://www.maxhelp.com/ They have some starter tutorials that might be helpful, as well as some advanced ones if you get bored with the beginner ones.
For generalized game art tuts and focused crits, check out CG Talk (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=39). The sticky links at the top will point you to good 3d info.
You're all F00ls! ::)
Who need crap 3DSMUGS or Brenda if you have 3D Design Plus? >:(
It even worked with Windows 3! :D
3D Design Plus RULEZ! :D :D
CSG RULEZ! :D :D :D
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Wed 12/05/2004 22:29:42
I'm not arguing black and white, I don't care if she pirates, I'm just pissed that you guys are talking down a worthy open-source project that I've had great results with. It's always the same crap too, "Bad interface, it doesn't have this or this.." and usually the problem is with the user and not the application.
I'm sorry, I shouldn't be forcing this on but I just have to ask... So... Freakin'... What?
Is Geoffkahn's [cause Pete said NOTHING bad about Blender] opinion something that thousands of people listen to? Is there a huge community of people who use Blender now totally sad because Geoffkahn doesn't like the interface and chooses not to use the program? Are the creators giving up? "That's it, some guy somewhere said he hated it... Shut this down... Shut this all down..."
Again, you love the program Hooray! Thousands of people love the program Hooray! Thousands of people hate the program, So what?! Some people hate photoshop which I think is the bee's knees, it's absolutely fabulous for sprite art and animation and it doesn't matter if people hate it...
I'm not being sarcastic or snotty so don't read it that way, por favor...
And also, I'm sure there are many companies that will train you in programs you don't know if your portfolio is strong and they feel the effort is worth it, when representatives from LucasArts came to my school [which is a very respected art school and had some really crappy computer courses, so yes Pesty, school isn't always the best place to learn things] they said they would train someone if their work was strong. But anyway...
Yufster: If you want to learn 3d studio max, read the help file and the tutorials. They aren't the best tutorials but the help file is great. Then I really think you should find a way to download movie tutorials because they help so so much.
"Bee's knees". :)
Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 13/05/2004 04:32:46
I'm not being sarcastic or snotty so don't read it that way, por favor...
For a post that isn't sarcastic, it's surprisingly full of sarcasm.
I care because it's a good program and people shouldn't be discouraged from trying to learn just because some people can't get the interface. Most people who start off with Blender have no problem after the initial hurdles of understanding 3d space, it's people who start with the costly progs who find it intolerable.
The more people in the Blender community the better. It would be nothing without the community, just like AGS.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Thu 13/05/2004 04:53:06
For a post that isn't sarcastic, it's surprisingly full of sarcasm.
Why do you keep saying that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.
if you think the "Hooray!" parts are me being sarcastic then you're wrong... or the comments on shut it all down... I was making jokes [and trying to make a veiled reference to Ghost Busters]. Keeping it light. I said bee's knees for floopsake!
but whatever... It's like you see sarcasm in everyone's posts but do you see the personal jabs you took at pesty? bet you don't.
Look Shbaz, I'm sorry if I've offended you by posting my dislike for Blender in this thread. Nothing personal, of course.
As for you Yufster, you might be interested in this tutorial link:
http://www.maxforums.org/
Huntfor.com turned up quite a few good links, also:
http://www.huntfor.com/3d/tutorials.htm
Hope that helps!
Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 13/05/2004 05:07:27Why do you keep saying that word? I do not think it means what you think it means.
if you think the "Hooray!" parts are me being sarcastic then you're wrong... or the comments on shut it all down... I was making jokes [and trying to make a veiled reference to Ghost Busters]. Keeping it light. I said bee's knees for floopsake!
but whatever... It's like you see sarcasm in everyone's posts but do you see the personal jabs you took at pesty? bet you don't.
Well Eric, I was pretty sure of myself, but I looked it up anyway. My dictionary defines it as, "Witty language used to convey insults or scorn." Some additional definitions (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm) reveal, "A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule."
As I read this:
QuoteI'm sorry, I shouldn't be forcing this on but I just have to ask... So... Freakin'... What?
Is Geoffkahn's [cause Pete said NOTHING bad about Blender] opinion something that thousands of people listen to? Is there a huge community of people who use Blender now totally sad because Geoffkahn doesn't like the interface and chooses not to use the program? Are the creators giving up? "That's it, some guy somewhere said he hated it... Shut this down... Shut this all down..."
My sarcasm meter is going nuts. You can't just fill a post with it, and then say, "This isn't sarcasm." That's like saying, "Here, let me ridicule you, but remember that I'm not ridiculing you."
I don't see the personal jabs at Pesty, but then again, I understood everything I wrote with the clarity that someone outside of my head never could. One obvious one would probably be:
QuoteTypical misinformation and sarcasm.
Which was intended to be read chronologically with the posts, "misinformation" being directed at the "crappy interface" remark, and "sarcasm" being directed at the second quote I made, which as you even stated, is sometimes erronous anyways.
One thing I forgot when I PM'd Pesty about the afforementioned quote was "I'm sorry," which I am, because I didn't intend to make fun of anyone, but rather that Blender isn't a useless app that get's beaten up on the 3d playground all of the time.
and Geoffkan, no hard feelings. It'd be hard to get me to carry a grudge on the internet.
Ahh, let's give Yufster some other good tutorials then.
http://www.3dbuzz.com
Blender sucks.
I don't know if Blender sucks, but she does a pretty neat trick with ping-pong balls.
I used to think that piracy was like stealing, literally. I used to praise to my friends how it was comparable to stealing a car. But then I realised that it was comparable to CLONING a car.
I think the sort of piracy where people download thousand games from the net and never even play them is quite funny. My fried's got hundreds of CD's fdull of games he has never played...
Wait till I tell Robert Holleyman, Jack Valenti, and Cary Sherman about this thread! They are so going to wet their pants!
LOL!
how the hell do you know those names! Please god tell me you looked that up...and why do I recognize those names.... :-\
EDIT: Wait...I'm stupid, nevermind...
I thought those were that names of the carpenter and stunt man before the movie advert/anti-piracy thingy...
(http://www.datelinehollywood.com/images/articles/15122003030731-1.jpg)
Wait a minute...this is funny: http://www.datelinehollywood.com/showarticle.php?articleID=110
Movies. They're Not Worth It!
I didn't know that happened. It's funny though, of all of the piracy out there I oppose movie piracy more than music or software piracy. Music makes a close second to what I oppose. I can't say I oppose software piracy though. $50 for a piece of software is enough. People talk about effort put into software...what about game companies that develop realistic physics engines, lighting, AI, etc., that MUST take just as much if not more effort than developing Photoshop!!?? Right? Yet hundreds of dollars seperate the two products. Hmm...
Software. It's Not Worth It!
Holy edited post Batman!
later,
-junc
Jack Valenti's I knew. The other two I had to look up.