Adventure Game Studio

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4980465/

COMMENTARY
By Christopher Bahn

We've got one more year before George Lucas finishes up his “Star Wars” prequel trilogy with the as-yet-untitled Episode III, and he certainly has his work cut out for him. Not only does he have to resolve the ongoing storylines of “Phantom Menace” and “Attack of the Clones” in such a way as to lead directly into Episode IV, the original 1977 “Star Wars,” but he has to overcome two of the most soul-killingly dull storylines ever put on film. I mean, really â€" I've seen more interesting films on sandwiches I left in my fridge too long. Is there any way for Lucas to salvage the series in a single movie? It would take a great disturbance in the Force, but it's not impossible.

Hire some real behind-the-scenes talent
Considering that most of the worst ideas in the last two films came from Lucas himself, he might start by handing over the reins to another filmmaker.

It might be difficult to convince Lucas to go along with it, but if necessary Lucas could probably be tricked by telling him that Joseph Campbell is waiting with a documentary crew to massage Lucas' ego by interviewing him about his wonderful mythic imagination. When Lucas shows up, knock him out, encase him in a block of frozen carbonite and put him out of the way somewhere until the movie is out in theaters.

Give creative control entirely to a new directing and writing team â€" it almost doesn't matter who â€" and tell them to ignore “Phantom Menace” and “Attack of the Clones” entirely. Rethink Episode III as a standalone story with one simple plotline: Anakin Skywalker has just married Padme (who is, unbeknownst to him, pregnant with the twins Luke and Leia who'll show up in the next film). Seduced by ambition, Anakin leaves behind his wife, his life and even his own name to join the evil Emperor Palpatine as Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith.

It's a story that lives or dies depending on how skillfully and sensitively a filmmaker can deal with the emotional content, and Lucas is not a filmmaker who appears capable of doing that anymore. Carrie Fisher, Princess Leia in the original trilogy, has said that “When George was directing, he'd only say two things: 'faster' or 'more intense.'” Fire Lucas as director, who has no sense of control over his storyline, encourages flat and affectless acting, and shellacs every scene with such a frenzy of special effects that they assault your senses like a strobe light.

While you're at it, fire Lucas the writer, who has not come up with a single witty or memorable phrase in the four hours of prequel trilogy out so far. The first trilogy didn't have this problem: For instance, “The Empire Strikes Back” had the help of the great noir writer Leigh Brackett.

Having better writers would save Lucas from amateurish nonsense like his decision to give Anakin Skywalker the emasculating nickname “Annie.” Perhaps he was planning to have him break out into a rousing chorus of “The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow”?

Or the totally unnecessary invention of microbial “midichlorians” to explain how the mystical Force gives Jedi knights their powers, perhaps the stupidest idea to come out of “Phantom Menace.” And that's really saying something considering all the cringe-inducing, thinly disguised sci-fi rehashes of racial stereotypes like Jar-Jar Binks. Thankfully, the “midichlorian” concept quietly dropped from the story in Clones.

Recast Darth Vader
Alfred Hitchcock's dictum that “the more successful the villain, the more successful the picture” is of primary importance to Episode III, since the rise of Darth Vader is the heart of the story. Lucas has already done more than enough work on another Hitchcock maxim, “Always make the audience suffer as much as possible.”

Fire Hayden Christensen, whose single emotive capacity is sullen petulance, and whose attempts to put on the magisterial rage that must become Darth Vader's hallmark instead sound like a tenth-grader whose dad won't let him borrow the car. This is essentially the story of a guy who becomes Space Hitler, which is already hard enough to get people to take seriously without casting a scowly teen. And cut off that stupid-looking ponytail too, for crying out loud.

Clear out the dead wood
While you're at it get rid of Natalie Portman, who as Queen Amidala has all the regal presence of a mallrat shopping at her local Fashion Bug. Keep Samuel Jackson, Frank Oz, Anthony Daniels, and Ian McDiarmid, and thank your lucky stars that you've got Christopher Lee, who's been showcasing his considerable talent in Z-grade horror flicks for decades and knows better than perhaps any living actor how to pull a terrific performance out of truly awful material. Tell Ewan Macgregor, who's proven elsewhere he's a fine actor, that it's safe to come out and emote now. Fire everyone else.

Hire Ed Wood
In many ways, “Phantom” and “Clones” were the answer to the unasked question “What would the director of ‘Plan 9 From Outer Space' have done with a talented effects crew and a $200 million budget?” Well then, why not bring Ed Wood back from the grave to direct Episode III? Sure, it's a farfetched idea, but it's easier to swallow than “midichlorians.” We can see it now: Darth Vader develops a sudden fetish for angora sweaters, and mocks people who fall for his Jedi mind tricks with “See! It's your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!”

Rip off more Kurosawa
It's no slur on the genuinely great first “Star Wars” that much of the plotline and characterization was lifted straight out of Akira Kurosawa's “The Hidden Fortress.” Reusing older plotlines is a terrific way to shore up the fact that you have no interesting plots of your own. And after all, the extremely talented Kurosawa dipped into Shakespeare's well of ideas more than once â€" and Shakespeare himself lifted many of his plots from earlier plays. For Episode III, rip off Kurosawa's ripoff of Shakespeare's “Macbeth,” and retell the “Throne of Blood” storyline as Darth Vader's journey into evil.

Parody the whole concept
Maybe the best thing to do would be to get Anakin to embrace the Dark Side as quickly as possible, perhaps by forcing him to confront some terrible disappointment that will haunt him for the rest of his days. We suggest this two-line scene set in a Coruscant restaurant:

WAITER: Here's your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Anakin puts on his black helmet and storms off to his local county clerk's office and fills out the paperwork to have his name legally changed to “Darth Annie Vader.” (He later quietly drops the middle name, realizing it doesn't help his macho image.) And then for the next two hours, it's all special-effects spaceship battles, which is the real reason most of us will go to the theater anyway. Fade to black.

-------

It all sounds good to me. Lucas needs to do a Kubric and die before the film is finished... then Steven Spielberg can come in and save the film...

I read a news article that said after Episode III, he was going to go back to smaller films like American Graffiti.

We can only hope.

The analysis started well.... why turns it silly at the end? I enjoyed the first part...

And yeah, Episode I, specially Jar Jar Binks sucked... I think that the main goal of Episode IV, V and VI was that it was telling a tale about a little group of people invonlved into a huge gallactic storyline whereas in the I and II episodes it's more focused in big battles and "macroeffects" than in feelings...

A clear example is when "Annie" leaves her mother alone in Tatooine:

-"Mom can't come? No? oooh... Well, I'll be back for you mom!"

And... again... Jar Jar Binks sucked...

George Lucas suxors MORE!

No he doesn't.

Lucas may have made some shitty films in the last few years, but a least has the ability to make some non-shitty films.

yeah, well. fair enough.

But I hate him for star wars. I mean REALLY hate him.

Why? He has directed/Produced/wrote some of the best films ever... Why does he suck? Because he has made two bad films? If so... indeed, he sucks... And Coppola and Kubrick and Hitchcok and Spielberg, all of them have two bad films at least in their filmography... Actually, with that attitude we all suck, I think.

You hate him for Star Wars now, as it is, or you hate him for Star Wars even before the new episodes were released?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the new episodes. I imagine they'll get better as they age. So that, in 20 years time, we can look back and watch like Star Wars I and go "man, that's got such a cool story line". Oh God, imagine how boring the storylines will be in 20 years time when Star Wars VII comes out.

[LGM]What?!?! You obviously haven't SEEN American Graffiti, Peter Thomas!!![/LGM]

He has strengths, but he really needs to collaborate because his weaknesses are striking, and unfortunately years of idolatry have meant that this has now been forgotton by him.

You don't get me.

I like American Graffiti. And I would probably like George Lucas if he HADN'T ruined Star Wars.

The fact is, he did, and I hate him for it.

It's probably not fair, but that's not the point. The point is, I think he sucks.

looking back with grown up eyes i can safely say that personally there wasn't much to really ruin about star wars, it's kind of interesting i suppose but i can't say it's really any better than other science fiction i've seen except effects wise

Mark Hamill whines his way through the film, Darth Vader without James Earl Jones is just a guy in a suit waving his hands around on screen and Ewoks...

but whateva' that's why we have personal likes and dislikes and my not loving star wars doesn't hurt anyone

Peter, I know it's your opinion, but I'm a little confused about something.

There have been hundreds of directors (FarlanderÃ,  pointed out a few) who have made a few shitty films amidst some very brilliant films. Why is Lucas different to all those guys?

I mean, by that logic, you'd have to think Scorsese sucks for making "New York, New York".

Or Coppola for making "Jack" or "The Cotton Club".

Or the Coen Brothers for doing a dodgy remake of "The Ladykillers".

Do you think the above directors suck too? And if not, why does George specifically suck and not them?

Yeah, I know DG.Ã,  But I don't think they suck. Don't know why.

I just focus it all on Lucas because I hate him. Why do I hate him? Because he stuffed up Star Wars. Why don't I hate the others? Because I'm too busy hating Lucas.

EDIT: I hate star wars full stop, too. The fact that George lucas insisted on making it kinda annoyed me, too.

I agree with Eric here to some extent.

Now, I wasn't around when Star Wars first came out of course, but I did love it as a young kid (as opposed to an older kid like I am now). My dad got me the videos to watch, & I thought the whole thing was spectacular.

But lately, I've been looking at the whole thing from a different perspective: I now think Star Wars is overrated.

The basic plot is fair enough - good vs evil. Fine. I can deal with that.

But now I also look at the acting & dialogue (terribly wooden, in my opinion) & I can't help but look at it all in a new light.

Sure, the special effects were magnificant for the time, but I like to think that effects shouldn't matter much in a movie - that's really what was wrong with The Matrices, they relied too much on effects.

I watched episodes I & II recently, & tried my best to compare them to the originals. Farlander is right, the new ones do focus a lot on battles from a wider perspective & stuff, but a lot of the lightsaber stuff is a lot better than before (the Yoda battle from Episode II is amazing, better than any other in my opinion).

I came to the conclusion that the two new ones aren't that bad, that people look through the old ones with rose tinted glasses too much. Lucas even said himself something along the lines of how he made the new ones (for the most part) for the audience that his old (70s) audience used to be - the excited 10 year old boys.

Perhaps the problem for a lot of people now is that the...........'adventure' of space travel doesn't appeal to them anymore. Nowadays, when you think NASA, you think high tech & moon rocks. People aren't fascinated as much by all this as much as they were in the late 70s.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Or rather, my two pence as I live in Britain.

amen to the first 6 sentences.

Quote from: veryweirdguy on Wed 19/05/2004 08:38:08

I agree with Eric here to some extent.

Fabulous!

Quote from: veryweirdguy on Wed 19/05/2004 08:38:08

(the Yoda battle from Episode II is amazing, better than any other in my opinion).

But it how about this... all the other lightsaber battles were between actual people. they had sticks in their hands and they really fought... Christopher Lee stood in a room and swung a stick a bit and then they added in Yoda doing all these flips... Not so cool in my opinion. I'd rather watch Bruce Lee kick the shit outta 300 guys than watch him beat up a complete CG 3 armed monster

That's true actually, I've never thought about it like that.

From a production point of view, the original light saber battles were better. But I still find the Yoda one more entertaining, despite how it was made. It was definately a lot more lively than the originals (have you SEEN the originals? vwing.........................10 mins later.....................another vwing...................), & surely the final product should justify the means?

Although, I agree with that Bruce Lee comment. I find that sort of stuff 10 times more interesting & entertaining than any of your modern slow-motion-bullets-flying-kick-off-the-wall-jump-10-foot-high-computer-generated stuff that people seem to like at the moment.

So I suppose I'm split here. I dunno whether to agree or not.

ARGH! Damn you Eric, you have messed me up with your damn opinions!

Fortunately, they've "fixed" the problem of coherence between lightsaber style fights in "series" and "prequels" somewhat. The explanation is that in IV, V and VI we see a newbie, a wouded and an old person fighting (Luke, Darth and Obi Wan) and in the prequels we see the best jedis fighting... It works for me, but I think that the prequels overwhelm the old films in some way. The explanation is that new hope, the empire strikes... are films located in a post-war era, but...  :-\

Hehe there'll only be hope if Lucas passes the SW completely to my hand.

That way I'll ditch the use of light sabers completely.

"WTF?2? Light saber is the only cool thing in the series!1!", you may yell.

Now I'm going to tell you, why it will be much much cooler directed by me:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/nanchuka.jpg)
Because I will replace all the light sabers with teh ULT1M4T3 light nanchukas!1!



/me actually never watched SW1 and SW2, he flees...

Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 19/05/2004 08:12:06
[LGM]What?!?! You obviously haven't SEEN American Graffiti, Peter Thomas!!![/LGM]

Well, I didn't like it either! Huh! There you go!

Actually, Lucas isn't much of a director, and he hasn't gained his fame for that. Except for Star Wars and American Graffiti, all of his titles are unknown independant flicks. I haven't seen them myself, but on IMDB they all have roughly 20-30 votes and are average in rating. So, he has just done 4 movies we know, two of them shitty. Great?
What he really is is a big-shot producer. Here, he does know his way around.

[LGM]I guess you haven't SEEN THX-1138, Barcik!!![/LGM]

Here's my theory on the Star Wars prequels ...

The Star Wars Trilogy (ep. IV, V, and VI) are legendary.Ã,  Sure we can look back on them now and find faults, but remember the magic of them when you were a kid.Ã,  They're a cultural phenomenon with over 20 years of adoration and love.Ã,  How can you top that?Ã,  How can you make something that can even compete with that?Ã,  In my opinion the answer is flatly, you can't.

I think it was a mistake for GL to even try.

Who knows ... in 20 years perhaps after watching the prequels 200 times (like I've seen the OT) perhaps it'll all blend together as one piece, but right now I'm afraid, it just doesn't.

Here's my thoughts on why the prequels aren't accepted:
1) GL had (adopted) kids in the interim and these movies are VERY geared towards kids as a result.
2) The new special effects make it feel VERY not Star Wars.Ã,  You don't associate CGI with Star Wars becauce the OT (Original Trilogy) didn't have CGI.
3) The Galaxy of the Prequels is a FAR different place (perhaps far too different) than that of the OT.

All of this makes it feel less like Star Wars.

My gripes about the Prequels:
1) Everybody says Jar Jar sucks.Ã,  I disagree, I think his voice acting sucks!Ã,  I would totally agree there.Ã,  But the technical achievement was excellent!Ã,  They just picked a voice only 2-4 year olds would like.Ã,  (see point 1 above)
2) The technology appears to be more advanced in the Prequels than in the OT.Ã,  I was VERY much looking forward to less (or at least equal) technology in the PT.
3) Yoda as CG in AotC.Ã,  Come ON George what were you thinking??Ã,  Sure it looked awesome but Yoda is a puppet for GOD's sake!!

What would I have done with the prequels?
1) I would have started them with Anakin as a 14-15 year old leaving Tatooine with QuiGon (not a whiney little 9 year old bad actor)
2) Darth Maul would have spanned the trilogy (like vader) and Anakin would fight him to take his place next to Sidious (the Emporer) in Ep. III (then fight Obi-wan)
3) JarJar's voice would have been different.
4) I would have made it FAR darker to really build the impending doom of 20 years of Galactic civil war approaching.
5) I would have tied it FAR more into the OT ...

So ... can GL salvage the PT with Episode III?Ã,  I guess time will tell ... I suppose anything is possible.Ã,  GL is, in my opinion, one of the greatest story tellers of our time.Ã,  So I hold out hope that a story so amazing and redeeming will come out of episode III.

Good lord, I wrote a lot.

Star Trek has had it's share of duds, but Enterprise as a prequel is much better than episodes 1 and 2 of SW. On the other hand, Star Trek had to pretty much go back to prequels becuase the new  technology had just about reached a point that there always had to be some part of it break down in order to stop them getting the easy way out of a problem....

I'm extremely surprised that nobody's mentioned Indiana Jones..  surely at least one of the Indy flicks gives Lucas some redeeming value for you? (I've always leaned a lot more towards Indy-fan-ness than SW-fan).

They just need to make a futuristic action movie with no talking, and extreamly little plot. 10 minutes of a silent plot build up and 2 hours of extream space fighting. It'd be like the Matrix if Charley Chaplin stared in it... Just without the comedy, bouler hats, and Hitler facial hair.

Darth, your idea rocks... but then again, you are a Sith Lord. :P

Anyway, I am really amazed they have never made a Star Wars TV series. Maybe it hasn't happened, because Lucas would pump millions of dollars into each episode and overload it with crappy effects, and also he couldn't come up with any original stories... but I think I'd make a fair crack at it.

You make a series called Tales of the Jedi Knights, and have either the spirit of Yoda tell the stories, or have Mark Hamill as Luke (come on, he isn't doing anything), training the new crop of Jedi and using this ball thing that held the history of the Jedi, which I think was called the Omnicube or something, which was introduced in one of the comics. Anyway, you have him you that to tell the yound padawans stories of past Jedi, and you could have a few guest star episodes, like having Samuel L Jackson reprise his role as Windu, and then you'd have all sorts of one hour episodes, from space battles to intense jedi fights... and also, no Lucas, no Jar Jar Binks (unless you kill him, but I suspect that'll happen in SW3... bloody bastard, brought the downfall of the republic he did... just make us hate him more George :P), no crappy actor as Anakin/Darth, make episodes concerning the Clone Wars, Darth Vader or the Emporer really dark, and have more emotion and acting than what the prequels do.

Also, the special effects need to be on par with that of the OT, not super fucking advance PT shit... :-\

QuoteFabulous!

It has to be done:

(http://www.saunalahti.fi/sakarit/kerro-lisaa/Fabulous.jpg)

The thing that really kills me is the lack of anything REAL when they filmed Star Wars Eps 1 and 2. I mean, look at the behind the scenes footage. Hey look, we're on set! It's... Really... Green...

Everything's CG. I don't mind a bit of CG, but EVERYTHING?

QuoteSure it looked awesome but Yoda is a puppet for GOD's sake!!

I'd agree with the puppet bit, but why is God with such emphasis? it's not his fault.

QuoteI'm extremely surprised that nobody's mentioned Indiana Jones

Wish granted: Indiana Jones Sucks just as much as Star Wars :D
Despite the smiley, I'm not kidding. I can't stand Mr. Jones. It's almost as bad as James Bond.

actually flippy, this is what I was thinking about:

(http://www.agagames.com/ghormak/franz/strips/fan011.gif)

I never got cuaght up in Star Wars.  I can watch the movies but I don't remember many names or relationships.  I enjoy the original three of course, as movies.  I haven't adopted the franchise.

The newer two were pretty much people just going from place to place for no apparent reason.  "We must move the princess to yet another planet, quick!"

QuoteI'd agree with the puppet bit, but why is God with such emphasis? it's not his fault.

Who else are we going to blame?? The Cosmic Muffin??

Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 20/05/2004 03:15:36
actually flippy, this is what I was thinking about:
http://www.agagames.com/ghormak/franz/strips/fan011.gif

I prefer this one:

(http://www.agagames.com/ghormak/franz/strips/fan019.gif)

Peter Thomas, the way you say things "sucks" are not very own of a good cristian...  ;D

Here's the way I see it (and because I'm me, this is all that matters).

The original, ACTUAL Star Wars is one of the greatest bunch of films ever made and its cult status is well deserved. It's special effects don't measure up to today's standards, but who cares? I think they're better because they're more fun, and they give Star Wars that "feel"... you know what I'm talking about. That... "feel" that we all love about it.

These new unrelated movies that Lucas has created are shit house. Sure, they're made by the same guy and have the same title, but they aren't Star Wars. I shall call them, "Shit House". They're some of the most painful things to watch on earth for so many reasons I just can't be bothered to name them. They're so, so very crap. The third one can't possibly save it. These movies shouldn't even be associated with actual Star Wars. If you think I'm just being too negative about them because I'm looking at them through "original Star Wars coloured glasses", then you're wrong. They're crap movies compared to anything. However, there's no harm is holding them right up next to original Star Wars to be compared, because they SHOULD have to do the original SW justice. They don't, they're shit, and I too think Lucas is a dickhead for ruining my ability to say 'Star Wars' and have people know I mean those awesome original movies. Now I have to tell people I like actual Star Wars, which pisses me off, and takes up more of my time than it should.

I agree that some great, awesome movies have come out of Lucas. I like those movies and good on him for making them, but I honestly hate him for the SW screw up. If he apologised for it, I'm sure I'd feel differently but the fact that he's done this awful thing, and still continues to do it, and still thinks it's a good idea is what sticks in my head about it.

Summary: Star Wars is great, Shit House is crap, and George Lucas should stop ruining a great trilogy and say he's sorry. He should donate all the money he made from these 3 movies (and will make) to charity as penance.

Who cares... If Lucas had never made it big with Star Wars, LucasArts may never have been made.. And without lucas arts we wouldn't have Monkey Island *Falls over backwards*

Bout ep III ... Hasn't it been confirmed or something that its called Birth of the Empire

[size=14]I haven't heard anything on StarWars.com or TheForce.net yet ... so I wouldn't take that title as 'confirmed'.

I thought it should be called "Fall of the Jedi"

But that's just my opinion!
[/size]

Actually it has been mentioned on theforce.net ... and was reported in the Sun... still nto confirmed though..

It was always obvious though that it would be something to do with The Empire getting stronger (Rise of the Empire, Fall of the Jedi) etc..

One thing that should be kept in mind when discussing ALL of the Star Wars movies is that George Lucas has said in interviews that he wrote the story to get "young people" back into religion. The whole thing started out as religious propaganda, and maybe it still is. I'm not exactly sure if that's still his plan today or if he just wants to get them over with and to hell with the young people's beliefs!

I'm lazy it's midnight, the article didnt exactly look short, can somone give me the jist?

Hmmm, heres something from DarkHorizons concerning the title:

The long-awaited final Star Wars blockbuster will be called Birth Of The Empire, movie insiders have revealed to Brtish tabloid The Sun and the highlight of the space epic will be a thrilling lightsabre clash between Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor) and Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) while surfing on lava.

The Hollywood source said: "Anakin and Obi-Wan fight on platforms on the lava. They control these like surfboards". Meanwhile in regards to the title, the source added: "There's going to be a big announcement soon. They've tried lots of titles but the most popular is Birth Of The Empire."

Also, heres a screenshot of an apparently changed ending of Return of the Jedi...
(http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/jedi.jpg)

I had heard they were doing crap like this, but I think it might be a hoax. I have seen only one other pic of a "change" and that was replacing the old woman who they had for The Emporer in Empire with the guy who plays, well, the Emporer.

Anakin and Obi-Wan fight on platforms on the lava. They control these like surfboards

Yeah, it kind of looks like a hoax, but it's still a pretty good photoshop. The suit anakin is wearing, though, does not match the suit he's wearing on Ep III, nor the suit worn by the old guy who originally played Anakin. So, it might be true after all.   :'(

---

I read the article from the first post... LOL.

Here's a summary of the Kurosawa movie "The Hidden Fortress", as told by blockbuster's website:
"Running from the enemy after a disastrous defeat, the two soldiers fall in with general Toshiro Mifune, who is in search of a huge cache of gold. Mifune is also desirous of freeing princess-in-exile Misa Uehara from the clutches of the evil victorious army. Several large and small battles ensue before Mifune can realize his goal. If the plot of Hidden Fortress sounds vaguely familiar to you, try this exercise: substitute two robots for Chiaki and Fujiwara, Mark Hamill for Mifune, and Carrie Fisher for Uehara."

I'll prefer a good ripped off movie 1000 times more than a bad original movie. If you don't care, just try to watc a Lifetime original movie and then let's see who's right :P

Well, time to rip off monkey island for my next game... lol, just kidding ;D

QuoteThe suit anakin is wearing, though, does not match the suit he's wearing on Ep III, nor the suit worn by the old guy who originally played Anakin.

Actually it looks exactly like Sebastian Shaw (old Anakin)'s robes. Hoax.

(http://www.cswu.cz/basic/images/jedimaster.jpg)

In detail....
(http://netmonkey.cellosoft.com/temp/end.jpg)
(http://netmonkey.cellosoft.com/temp/HaydenJedi.jpg)

It looks lame... and seriously, if they change that, then that means Anakin Skywalker wasn't Vader as HE IS TOO FUCKING YOUNG THERE!!!

Vader died as an old man, not a young idiotic robotic fuckhead like Hayden Christiansen... LUCAS MUST BE STOPPED!!! >:(

QuotePeter Thomas, that isn't very Christian of you. Or something like that. I'm too lazy to find the proper quote

It wasn't very Christian of George Lucas to make that stupid film ;D

Darth Vader being called 'Anakin' never did sit right with me. It's a terribly pussy name... I wish the 'origin' of DV had gone more like, "Guy grew up to be a big, awesome Jedi. He was a dude, and didn't take crap from anyone. He may have had a beard at some point. Then he got a bit weird, evil and became Darth Vader where he was once again a dude, albiet an evil one."

His original name should have been... Vader or something. Or Dart (god, I love that name, any Island of Moreau fans out there?). Something a little less pussy than 'Anakin'.

Also (sorry for all those people that wish I'd just shut up), does anyone else think 'Darth Maul' is one of the most spastic names ever? I laughed out loud the first time I heard it thinking it was a joke. Sadly though... -_-

Good lord I hope they don't change/add anything to the OT!!Ã,  It was great the way it was George!!

It was perfect even before the Special Editions!

I loved the name of Anakin until they started calling him Ani in the prequels.Ã,  Then the name was tarnished to me.

That picture of Anakin (photoshopped into Return of the Jedi) is pretty good ... but why would he be that young?Ã,  Perhaps because that was the age he was when he ceased to be Anakin Skywalker?Ã,  Who knows ...

I don't particularly like 'Birth of the Empire' but, then again, I hated 'Attack of the Clones' for a long time too.

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Fri 21/05/2004 06:30:43
Good lord I hope they don't change/add anything to the OT!!  It was great the way it was George!!

It was perfect even before the Special Editions!

Just checking here, but you're an adamant Star Wars fan and you hope they don't change the OT because the SE's are even more perfect than the OT?

Or was that just bad grammar?

Quote from: Esseb on Fri 21/05/2004 07:10:17
Just checking here, but you're an adamant Star Wars fan and you hope they don't change the OT because the SE's are even more perfect than the OT?

Or was that just bad grammar?

Ummm ... I'm not sure.Ã,  I didn't think it was bad grammar.Ã,  Perhaps I should have said "change/add anything more to the OT"?

What I meant was:

I thought the Original Trilogy was perfect before he made the Special Editions.

I don't necessarily mind the special editions, but I liked the original better.
- Han shooting Greedo in cold blood shouldn't have been taken out
- Luke's wussy scream while falling in Bespin shouldn't have been added

I'm a little bummed that the DVD versions are only the Special Editions but I suppose beggers can't be choosers.Ã,  I'll take what I can get.Ã, 

Only 4 more months ...

"It was perfect even before the Special Editions!" is the key phrase. It implies that they were perfect, then the SE's made them even more perfect.

Removal of the "even" would have been a more clear approach.

I still reckon he should do an Alien Quadbox job and release the originals and then the special editions all up... hes fucking dumb if he doesn't do that... oh wait! :-[

Sadly (for you guys anyway, I don't really care much :P), from what I've heard Lucas wants to make even more changes to the OT when they come out on DVD.

I have heard in several places that Hayden Christensen will be replacing that other guy in the final scene (although those screenies don't look real, I think it will still happen), something to do with the other guy not getting any money or something? I wasn't 100% sure on this, I have the attention span of a.........what was I saying?

So deal with it. The DVDs will not be the OT, nor even the SE.

Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 21/05/2004 05:25:05

QuotePeter Thomas, that isn't very Christian of you.

It wasn't very Christian of George Lucas to make that stupid film ;D

There's a reason for that. What was it?

Oh yeah, Judaism.


There's one simple quick-fix for saving the Star Wars series: An all-singing all-dancing end sequence set in Yoda's hawaiian retreat with 5000 computer generated robots in hula skirts.

Or digitally remaster the film to remove the gaffer tape from Carrie Fisher's tits.

Quote from: DGMacphee on Fri 21/05/2004 14:34:32
Or digitally remaster the film to remove the gaffer tape from Carrie Fisher's tits.

Or even better... the whole slave outfit... I just know that that has been the reason why Jedi is the most horrid out of all the series. ::)

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Fri 21/05/2004 06:30:43

I don't particularly like 'Birth of the Empire' but, then again, I hated 'Attack of the Clones' for a long time too.

I hated 'Attack of the Clones' too, until I heard George Lucas saying that it's supposed to sound like some cheesy 50s sci-fi title. Then I thought "There is hope for him yet!" and changed the channel to watch cartoons.

Well unfortunately there is not really a good way to save Star Wars unless Lucas is executed on the spot right now....

...

But seriously. I believe that Lucas-related material has lost all of what it used to be. For starters there is the two awful movies he wrote, directed, and released in the past few years. The only other notable move he directed was the original Star Wars which, honestly, isn't as good as V, or VI. Empire Strikes Back was good (the best actually of all three) because he had the writing talent of Lawrence Kasdan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001410/) (also did Raiders of the Lost Ark which is the darkest of all 3 "Yay for melting Nazis!!") the cinematography of Peter Suschitzky (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005893/), and the direction of Irvin Kershner (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0449984/). Return of the Jedi was lackluster because he changed cinematographer (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0401727/)s and director (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0549658/)s. It was only better than the original Star Wars because the writer (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001410/) was the same from Empire, but utterly the directing and cinematography didn't thrill me as much as Empire. (<--Better, Ha HA!)

The second way is that, in my mind, LucasArts has gone down the tubes. The main reason: Where the fuck are all the adventure games??? LucasArts along with Sierra paved the way for adventure games so long ago. We all aspire to make a game even close to the quality of games like Sam and Max, Full Throttle, The Dig, and Day Of The Tentacle, not to mention almost every one of the Monkey Island Games plus the classics: Maniac Mansion and Zak Mckracken. (Grim Fandango, Hazaa, Hazaa!!) We hold a throne to the classic company with the GUI that is one of the most useful aside from the Verb Coin. We have even created fan games from their characters and I believe they take no legal action of trying to remove them from the internet (like what happened to Kairus (http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?action=profile;u=262) and Garfield: Attack of the Mutant Lasagna (http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=12102.0)) They moved all of this "adventure" stuff aside and began producing Star Wars games up the ass. I had hope they would return to their roots with Full Throttle 2 and Sam and Max 2...of course I was disappointed when they were canceled saying simply:

"After careful evaluation of current market place realities and underlying economic considerations, we've decided that this was not the appropriate time to launch a graphic adventure on the PC" says Mike Nelson, Acting General Manager and VP of Finance and Operations. There is currently no plan to reduce staff."

That right there makes me wanna vomit. An even more scary realization is that aside from two Monkey Island games and Grim Fandango, none...NONE of the classics are showcased anymore on their Games (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/) page.

He has to redeem himself in three two ways:

1. Bring back the adventure games (we care about the games damn it!
2. Release the OT on DVD. No Special Edition bullshit. No editing to the films like we know you are going to do. (He's an asshole, you know he's gonna)
3. Make Episode III the darkest of them all. I wanna see blood in the streets! Show me the crimes that made Darth Vader, Darth Vader! Kill all the Jedi whoopie!!!

Right now we won't know how good Episode III will be till we see it. Even Lucas has said (http://www.killermovies.com/s/starwarsepisodeiii/articles/2686.html):
"I'm going to go from complete success to complete failure". Lucas says that he expects utter rejection from his fans once Star Wars concludes. "I'm going to make a bunch of movies like 'THX'. And if people don't like it, too bad. There will be no Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan for me. There won't be any big dramas or Oscars."

And on that note we que the music...

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53
The only other notable move he directed was the original Star Wars.

Actually, he has also directed American Grafitti and THX-1138... to cult movies which are good.

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53Empire Strikes Back was good (the best actually of all three) because he had the writing talent of Lawrence Kasdan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001410/) (also did Raiders of the Lost Ark which is the darkest of all 3 "Yay for melting Nazis!!")

You seriously don understand the concept of dark, do you. Temple of Doom is the darkest of the three Indy movies, no way around it.

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53The second way is that, in my mind, LucasArts has gone down the tubes. The main reason: Where the fuck are all the adventure games??? LucasArts along with Sierra paved the way for adventure games so long ago. We all aspire to make a game even close to the quality of games like Sam and Max, Full Throttle, The Dig, and Day Of The Tentacle, not to mention almost every one of the Monkey Island Games plus the classics: Maniac Mansion and Zak Mckracken. (Grim Fandango, Hazaa, Hazaa!!) We hold a throne to the classic company with the GUI that is one of the most useful aside from the Verb Coin.

You do realise he doesn't oversee what Lucasarts makes in terms of games. And he didn't make those characters either, other people did... and Lucasarts fired them... so they probably wont ever make games based on them again.

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53We have even created fan games from their characters and I believe they take no legal action of trying to remove them from the internet (like what happened to Kairus (http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?action=profile;u=262) and Garfield: Attack of the Mutant Lasagna (http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=12102.0))

Well, Lucasfilm is notorius for allowing their fans making movies based upon Star Wars, evident by the dozens of different films. Have a look at TheForce.net and you'll see what I mean. Also, they normally provide the original sets for bigger projects, like they did with The Dark Redemption a few years back.

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53They moved all of this "adventure" stuff aside and began producing Star Wars games up the ass. I had hope they would return to their roots with Full Throttle 2 and Sam and Max 2...

Actually, they were originally set up to create Star Wars games... but hey... they decided to branch out and make extra cash.

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53He has to redeem himself in three ways:

1. Bring back the adventure games (who here really cares about the games?)
2. Release the OT on DVD. No Special Edition bullshit. No editing to the films like we know you are going to do. (He's an asshole, you know he's gonna)
3. Make Episode III the darkest of them all. I wanna see blood in the streets! Show me the crimes that made Darth Vader, Darth Vader! Kill all the Jedi whoopie!!!

Once again, he isn't in control of Lucasarts, he will never release the original trilogy on DVD and also, I wouldn't want to see that happen to Star Wars, no matter how crap the other prequels were. Sure, it should be the darkest one, but kids should still be able to it, just like the other Star Wars movies. He should shift the focus back to adults as the main audience though.

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53Right now we won't know how good Episode III will be till we see it. Even Lucas has said (http://www.killermovies.com/s/starwarsepisodeiii/articles/2686.html):
"I'm going to go from complete success to complete failure". Lucas says that he expects utter rejection from his fans once Star Wars concludes. "I'm going to make a bunch of movies like 'THX'. And if people don't like it, too bad. There will be no Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan for me. There won't be any big dramas or Oscars."

And on that note we que the music...

You quote that like its a big surprise... talk to any Star Wars fans and we could have told you that after TPM... :-\

Os àšltimo Quão Queijo ^_^ all true. Except for

QuoteActually, they were originally set up to create Star Wars games... but hey... they decided to branch out and make extra cash.

Four Part History of LucasArts (http://www.lucasarts.com/20th/history_1.htm)

"The immediate goal is to find the best way to bring the 'Lucasfilm touch' to video games and help advance the state of the video game art."

First titles
-------------
Ballblazer (March 1984, Atari 5200, Atari 800, later: Commodore 64, Apple II, PC, Amstrad, Sinclair Spectrum, Atari 7800)
Rescue on Fractalus! (March 1984, Atari 5200, Atari 800, later: Commodore 64, Apple II, PC, Amstrad, Sinclair Spectrum, Atari 7800)
Koronis Riftâ,,¢ (December 1985, Commodore 64, Atari 800)
The Eidolonâ,,¢ (December 1985, Commodore 64, Atari 800)
Labyrinthâ,,¢: The Computer Game (1986, Commodore 64, Apple II)

Original Adventures
--------------------------------
Maniac Mansion® (October 1987, IBM, Amiga, Atari ST, Commodore 64, Apple II, NES)
Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders® (October 1988, Commodore 64, PC, Amiga, Atari ST, Fujitsu FM Towns, Apple II)

Star Wars - Console
--------------------------
Star Wars (November 1991, NES)
The Empire Strikes Backâ,,¢ (December 1991, NES)
Super Star Wars (November 1992, SNES)
Super Empire Strikes Backâ,,¢ (November 1993, SNES)
Super Return of the Jediâ,,¢ (November 1994, SNES, DOS, Gameboy)

"While PC gamers enjoyed many classic adventure games during the early 90s, console gamers also had a chance to experience LucasArts' products. In 1991, LucasArts partnered with JVC Musical Industries, Inc. to launch the first Star Wars titles for game consoles. Based on the classic movie trilogy, these side-scrolling games let players assume the roles of characters such as Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Chewbacca, and even Wicket the Ewok. In addition to the side-scrolling action, some of the games included flight sequences. For example, Volksjaeger let players fly the X-wing during the Death Star trench run. The games were well received by critics and fans: Super Star Wars was awarded a perfect score from GamePro Magazine, and Nintendo Power magazine called it one of the five best Super Nintendo titles of 1992."

Star Wars - PC
-------------------
Star Wars X-Wing® (February 1993, IBM, PC CD-ROM, Mac CD-ROM)
Star Wars: Rebel Assault (November 1993, PC CD-ROM, Sega CD, Mac CD, 3DO)
Star Wars: TIE Fighter® (July 1994, IBM, Mac CD-ROM)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And it's just my opinion that: medling with the powers of God and melting nazis is darker than ancient tribal ritual, and you--Lucas, if you're out there--should care what your name is taglined to: LucasArts. Also, Empire was better :).

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Mon 24/05/2004 00:55:08and you should care what your name is taglined to: LucasArts.

How is Os àšltimo Quão Queijo ^_^ related to Lucasarts... in any way? ???

lol, i mean't lucas should care :)

Quote from: Happyhelmet on Sun 23/05/2004 21:20:53

He has to redeem himself in three ways:

1. Bring back the adventure games (who here really cares about the games?)
2. Release the OT on DVD. No Special Edition bullshit. No editing to the films like we know you are going to do. (He's an asshole, you know he's gonna)
3. Make Episode III the darkest of them all. I wanna see blood in the streets! Show me the crimes that made Darth Vader, Darth Vader! Kill all the Jedi whoopie!!!

Adding to the stuff that Ultimo said, it's also worthy to note that LucasArts were making adventure games during production of the TPM.

Grim Fandango was made during TPM's production, and the game was critically well-recieved but sold miserably. Then there was EMI, which was also critically well-reieved, but fans hated it.

And on that note, you can't really fault George Lucas for the lack of adventure games being produced. Even if he did release new adventures, I doubt they'd sell well, based on my two examples above.

It's just that the market has changed -- more gamers prefer FPS. That's why the market is saturated with FPS.

No, the market is saturated with games by EA.

First of all, EA isn't a genre. Adventure games and FPS are. And the market isn't driven by EA games because other developers can't go "Hey, I'm going to corner the market by releasing an EA game". It's driven by genres. And currently, it's being driven by FPS.

It's like me saying, "The road is saturated with cars" and then you saying, "No, the road is saturated with Fords". You're basically comparing apples to apple farms.

Secondly, try and stay on focus here, jet -- My point is it's unfair to blame the decline of adventure games on George Lucas.

It soon will be a genre :(
And I know I shouldn't fault Lucas, but it's easier that way :). so therefore:

He has to redeem himself in two ways:
1. Release the OT on DVD. No Special Edition bullshit. No editing to the films like we know you are going to do. (He's an asshole, you know he's gonna edit them and not release OT)
2. Make Episode III the darkest of them all.

LucasArts has to redeem itself in one way:
1. Bring back the adventure games, the lovable characters, the thrilling story, etc, etc.

But if LucasArts bring back adventure games, they'll go bankrupt.

Adventure games don't have a large share of the market anymore.

Maybe they will in the future. I doubt it, but who knows?

There's only one man who can help us now....



(http://sylpher.com/kafka/junk/greatscott2.jpg)

Why is Doc making us Grim Fadango  2 and a new Monkey Island game? Won't he get sued by Lucasarts... ???

he brought them back... back FROM the future

An _alternate_ future then, i would guess?
As with lots of things in the computer world (and outside it) LucasArts has become a thing to hate. (See also: Microsoft) We all hate it, long before we even know why. Just because everybody says we have to...
If George Lucas had still been in some control over LucasArts they would propably still be making adventure games. Not because George is cool, but because, judgeing by his last "movies", he is totally removed from reality.
The corporate rats running LucasArts however, are not. They have seen the decline in interest for adventure games, and have reacted the way good corporate rats are supposed to; they are backing out, sticking to what they know will sell. After all, from a business point of view, it's the right thing.
What the debate is really about is why you put corporate rats in charge of an artistic endeavour?
Why do we always have to maximize profits and cut the overhead? Whatever that means? That's the reason why we feel disappointed. Because we love the games and they only work with them. We feel they don't treat it with the amount of respect something that we love should be treated with. This is what it's like to be a minority.