a short film I made

[boojiboy]

Hey guys. Me and a friend of mine made this short film a year ago. I decided to put it on youtube.
It was a really small project but it'd be great if you could let me know what you think.
The music was used without permission so I was thinking of reediting it in a few weeks and putting a new score on it. If there are any musicians interested in helping with that PM me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbLD6uW104s

[Babar]

Hahaha....the moment they said "2 mental patients", I knew they'd be going back to be observed. It was confirmed when I saw they were wearing those silly clothes.

[Andail]

I liked it! It wasn't so much for the idea or the plot - which was ok but a bit clichée - but the acting and the editing was actually quite good. Low key and unpretentious, and very efficient. I almost liked it better when they were just sitting and talking before the sci-fi part.

[InCreator]

I quite liked it!

Some crits and comments though:

* Bearded one - is humming too much. Like he had no idea what the script was.
It feels natural for first 10 times, then, quite annoying.
* Movie lacks atmosphere.

There's surely something you could have done with lights and camera angles. For a sci-fi theme, some strong fluorescent lights could made things into way more mystical and interesting.

As well as eye closeups and other usual sci-fi clichés. I suggest watching intro of movie Cube2:Hypercube, it gives extreme sense of the aura something like you tried to capture. Same goes to Portal game - a simple puzzle game radiates story of something so good behind it that I felt sorry for the game being so simple itself.

What I really did like was camera work. It felt quite professional during dialogue.

What I suggest is using more sound and crazy camera placements. You have 5 minutes, max it out with emotions and power.

[boojiboy]

Well thanks for the crit but I'm aware of all those thing. There actually was no script, it was entirely improvised. The bearded one is me. The lighting in the first scene is really cruddy I know, but there was absolutely no crew, the two actors in the film are the two people behind the film and it was all shot in one long hectic day. The props and costumes were bought in the same day.
Basically the film was made because we wanted to take advantage of the equipment we had so this is a pretty rushed effort.

But really? Atmosphere? I thought if anything the second scene had a pretty cool atmosphere. Fair enough

[InCreator]

Don't get so defensive, I've made several films with my friend aswell, and we also had no crew or tech to support it, so I'm just sharing what we learned. You have no idea how much can be done with some improvisation. You can cover a desk lamp with a cloth and point it at actor, and though it's not visible to viewer/camera, it could give extremely cool light effect to the whole movie. I've tried several crazy things, like mounting camera onto radio-controlled toy car and while speaking, using the remote... just try some creativity and you'll get alot cooler scenes. For example, you could take old computer apart, mount one of the fans to a usb cable and put a light behind the fan. Then point it at wall. Maybe put some thread around the fan to make it go slower or simply connect old volume control box from a broken speaker between usb and fan, giving you fan with adjustable rotating speed... then cast it's shadow onto wall in the scene. Instant futuristic hangar effect! Other cables and stuff from computer could be used to decorate the place, and if they're seen only partially, noone could cleary say what's they're for. Just give it a thought.   

[boojiboy]

I'm just saying that the film was extremely rushed. I would usually go to alot more effort with lighting and set design but there was nowhere near enough time to work on these things. I do appreciate the advice and I will take it into consideration for my next projects.
But was it really necessary to say that my humming was annoying? And that the film lacked atmosphere?

[InCreator]

But was it really necessary to say that my humming was annoying? And that the film lacked atmosphere?

Well, because it was. And atmosphere was very low indeed, especially since the movie was very short. In typical movie, everything is laid out in hour and a half or so. If you make a five minute movie, you have to pack some tight content into it or really strong punchline at least. Otherwise it would simply suck.

Youtube is a massive movie portal with numerous films of all kind. Everyone in this mass (mess) tries to stand out somehow, so I presumed that so did you. Because what's the point in making multimedia that nobody cares about? Like boring films?

And won't few pointers help you to make better films?

Did you ask for comments and opinions for your movie or just a pat on the head?

but it'd be great if you could let me know what you think.

Huh?

If you're so confident about the things (and their greatness) you do, why do you ask for comments?
Anyway, I don't feel like continuing this dialog anymore, so let's see what others think.

[boojiboy]

I didn't make the film for youtube and I don't think that it's a great film. I have no problem with criticism, after all I did ask for people's opinion. However, the criticism you gave me felt very condescending and unnecessary. Especially after I told you how little time we had to work on the film. You said

What I really did like was camera work. It felt quite professional during dialogue.

And then you said I needed more "crazy" camera placements. So what's that mean?
And what if I don't like "crazy" camera placements, surely that's determined by one's style.
And I wasn't really going for a futuristic "hangar" look. The actors are both too young to be taken seriously as professionals. I wanted it to look like an ordinary basement. Who even said that I wanted atmosphere?

I've never heard anyone do a review of a film and say that they needed more "crazy camera angles" and lights with fans in front of them. These aren't pointers for making better films, they're pointers for making films in your style. Of course I'm going to get defensive, it's my own film and I am not confidant about the things I do and I don't think they're great. I appreciate criticism but I just think that yours was very condescending, like you wanted everyone to know that you can do a better job.

[InCreator]

"I've never heard anyone do a review of a film and say that they needed more "crazy camera angles"

I think that's exactly how reviews work. Art isn't judged by genres, but movies and often music is. If you make a horror movie and it's has no horror in it at all, every reviewer is going to point that out! And people would say that this horror movie stinks and is not worth watching. Genre, the idea, is what gives the whole point to the thing. Nobody makes a horror movie and says that they don't want any horror, gore or tension in it. It's fucking stupid.
Or if the horror works really fine, it's also said. If you're trying to dodge it all, you will be either said that movie 'didn't have any direction' or worse, 'even makers of this movie had no idea what path were they going to take' and so on.

I took your film as a science fiction (well, WAS IT?!) and simply suggested simple ways I've discovered to bring out or model the theme better. Of course it's what I would have done instead of you and of course it's my opinion. I didn't even suggest you to do so but offered something to move your thoughts along path of more creative approach. Or atleast something suitable to the homemade sci-fi genre. Wake up, it's two guys talking in a room and then performing weird dance outside. This really sounds like a loads of room for improvement, in my opinion!

If you don't want atmosphere, content or anything else for that matter, you could simply use a title of "another stupid art movie only I understand" instead "a short film I made" for this thread. I wouldn't ever bother to look!

But I'm not a movie critic anyway and you don't have to like any of my advice. If you don't care about it, forget about it. It's your movie and your decision. Just stop spitting into my face because I dared to have a bit different opinion as you expected or even be cheeky enough to suggest something. But to be honest for last time I say anything about your movie, you're far from famous Hollywood producer yet, so stop acting like one!

[boojiboy]

Man, you're saying that I'm acting like a Hollywood producer just because I TOTALLY disagree with you. If anything you're the one who is showing off.
You may think that that's how a review works, but uh... Yeah it doesn't. You can say it's bland, unoriginal, uninspired or whatever, but saying that I should add crazy camera angles is a creative choice that no critic would even think to give.
My film was science fiction as much as back to the future was science fiction. It was comedy and the idea was stupid. It was meant to be stupid, if you don't like it or get it that's fine, it's not for you.
But did anyone watch 'alien' and do a review saying, "it's too much horror, they should put more robots in it."?
Did anyone do a review of 'back to the future' and say that they're weren't enough fluorescent lights?
Movies are not judged by genres.

Give me a break, let me defend my film without you calling me a "Hollywood producer" wannabe or saying that I think so highly of my own work.
I can't discuss your opinions on my film without you thinking that I'm being arrogant?

[InCreator]

Yeah, but what you don't realize is that you don't have to defend anything.
I even didn't attack you in the first place, simply said what wasn't so good IMO. Seeing that you took defense immediately, I tried to explain my criticism and give you some constructive ideas of my vision.

Didn't you notice?

...so I'm just sharing what we learned...

And I never told that anything would be hopeless without anything I suggested. It all ended nicely with...

Just give it a thought.

If you released this to worldwide audience, all you should do is wait for opinions come in and sign autographs.

And then, if you want to learn something from whole thing, compile your own little review from total of opinions, taking notes what people liked and didn't, what to change and how to do better. If you don't, you're just wasting your time.

But seeing your ungrateful and reactive response to any possible C&C, I believe that nobody cares to comment anymore.

[boojiboy]

Ungrateful?
I thanked you for your crit! Isn't that the definition of gratefulness? I then went on to explain why some of things you criticized were in the film. How is that ungrateful? You then told me not to get so defensive and that basically that was no excuse for not putting a fan in front of a light or something.
I then said that I APPRECIATE your advice (more gratefulness I believe) and that I will take it into consideration. You followed that up with a post that made me appear as if I was completely arrogant and thought so highly of myself. Sorry but what the hell have I done wrong? I disagree with your criticism, which I was grateful enough not to mention originally.
It seems to me that someone can't take crit on their on crit.

[InCreator]

I say this again - if you think that my ideas suck, well, I can't force you to like them, neither I want to.
It isn't about my ideas at all. Neither you criticizing them. As far as I understand, ball started rolling from here:

But was it really necessary to say that my humming was annoying? And that the film lacked atmosphere?

Simply tell me why did you ask this, what do you mean with this and what do you expect from people as feedback when releasing something for thousands to see?
What's the whole point of this thread?

[boojiboy]

* Bearded one - is humming too much. Like he had no idea what the script was.
It feels natural for first 10 times, then, quite annoying.

I understand that as criticism, it was the way that it was said that offended me. Me personally mind you, after all that is me. You're saying that the way that I talk is quite annoying. When I asked for your opinion I didn't ask "do you think I talk annoyingly?" If I did then maybe I'd understand.
So yeah I took offense to that and I didn't think that was necessary.

As for the atmosphere thing. This question was simple. What do you mean by it lacks atmosphere? Atmosphere is such a vague thing that cannot be defined on it's own. I was simply asking, what specifically do you mean about the atmosphere you think it's lacking?

Saying it lacks atmosphere is like saying it lacks grooviness. It was a pointless statement that shouldn't have been a criticism.

[InCreator]

Your post speaks for itsself... so does the youtube link you provided.

After all this, I'm urged to click again and figure out what's in my crits so wrong to disagree... but then again, I don't really want to. I think I've had quite enough of your movie and this thread.

[boojiboy]

Thanks again

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I am typically the first person to chide someone when they cross the line from constructive to destructive criticism but I don't really see any evidence of that here with Increator's initial post.  Your replies (and the content therein) gives me the feeling that you aren't the type of person to handle criticism well, and that by posting in the General Discussion forum rather than the Critics Lounge you expected a more vague reply to your work.  I did not personally detect this 'hum' he mentions, though the script is packed with a lot of 'um's' and 'uh's', something that could have been easily avoided by some prep-time beforehand and tighter script control (I'm assuming you had some kind of script).  I do, however, agree that the piece lacked an establishing atmosphere to it.  I wasn't really sure where you were taking the story until the characters stopped meandering around and focused on the device.  Some more attention to set detail or establishing shots of the device and some indication of what it was used for beforehand would have removed this confusion.  If you made this as a by the seat of your pants endeavor then I think you did fairly well; the acting is generally good and the ending brings us back to the beginning and gives a logical (and humorous) conclusion to the piece.  The primary weakness as I see it is the quality and quantity of dialog.  The only advice I can give you is that when you are making a film on a beer budget and want to hook a viewer and keep them interested is to write dialog that is concise and flows smoothly with the plot.  There are many examples of extremely low budget films with tight scripts that draw attention away from their budget I could direct you to for inspiration, such as The Evil Dead or Hey, Stop Stabbing Me! (I'm mainly choosing schlock comedy horror here since your piece has a campiness to it).  I highly recommend you check out Hey, Stop Stabbing Me! since it is:

A) A student film by a bunch of friends
B) Has no budget (if you listen to the commentary they basically filmed on or around their homes with props made from stuff they found).
C) Has excellent dialog, pacing, and delivery

Sometimes looking at how other people handle the zero budget issue can help you out.  If you're really serious about the whole film thing then Lloyd Kaufman's Make Your Own Damn Movie! dvds would probably help you to a great degree as well.  At any rate, I wouldn't have made this post if I didn't think there was promise in what you are doing, so good luck.

[boojiboy]

Thanks for posting, I apologized to InCreator in a PM. Not sure if he'll get back to me. I have no problem with criticism and I had no problem with your post, although I'm just still not sure what anyone means by saying it lacked atmosphere. Also, there was not even an ounce of a script, which is not really an excuse, but I was supposed to edit my REAL film but I lost most of the footage so I ended up editing this which is something that was done in a couple of hours (we had to get the equipment back). I guess I was frustrated with the criticism because I would usually go to a lot more effort on a film and I guess that shows.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Fair enough!