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I've been thinking.
There seems to have been a lot of sightings of UFO's in the UK in recent weeks. Or certainly there has been an increase in press coverage of them.

Anyone else think this could be a bit of a publicity stunt to build up enthusiasm for the next X-Files movie?

I'm a strong believer that nearly everything in the news (apart from the big stuff like murders and international crises) is there for publicity purposes.  I'm not saying they make it up, but they certainly select their stories to fit in with what is going to make them the most money.

The headline on today's Sun was "ARMY SPOT UFOs OVER SHROPSHIRE"...
The Sun is part of the Murdoch empire, as is Fox, who are the company behind The X-Files, so it would make sence that His news empire would direct their stories to support his TV and film interests... just a thought.

I'll be keeping an eye on paranormal developments over the next month, especially in the Murdoch Media, and I'll provide a conclusion along with a review the film on August 1st.

The one they showed on the news last night moved like a flying pigeon.

The Sun is sort of a celebrity gossip publication, right?

Most publications actually do try to maintain a good image, and keep their credibility.   On the contrary, publications like these will report just about anything.   I'd say its a good bet Fox is  trying some publicity stunt viral marketing nonsense.   

I googled one of these articles and it does appear they're not just reporting each sighting but instead saying "UFOs rampant all over the UK"  to start some buzz not unlike Orson Welles' War of the Worlds broadcast.    If its about the X Files movie I just couldn't say.

I agree...

I agree that someone who has been paranoid enough to tell that Heath Ledger was killed by Hollywood to promote Batman can believe such things...

Woah.    I had to search "Heath Ledger" for that reference.   Umm...

Despite the fact the HL conspiracy is loony, don't let that convince you that media outlets don't try PR stunts.    I mean you saw all the crazy shit they did for Cloverfield.    We're talking about the Sun not the Times of London.   It takes years and years to gain credibility from your audience as a media outlet.   The only thing keeping respectable media outlets from downright lying to the public is that they don't want to lose their audience.

So papers like the Sun feature celebrity gossip columns and horoscopes, and everything else including bologna.   I don't see much credibility in the UFO stories.   Not enough to defend them.

***Clarification***

My intention was to be funnier, better than offensive. Sometimes internet sucks at expressing the feelings of the people over it. Sorry if there has been a missunderstood, Stu.

Hahaha, well anyways  I was watching CNN the other day and the WEIRDEST story came on about Barack Obama and John McCain.


The story was basically "You've been hearing alot lately from the candidates about how evil lobbyists are..... but did you know there are lots of lobbyists out there trying to HELP you?"

The story went on to show all these goodguy lobbyists and blah blah blah, defending the system as it is.   There seemed to be no actual news item propelling this story.... just the fact that the giant conglomerate that runs CNN wanted the story to be told.

So there's some PR.   And it wasn't a lie really.  Just a situation where CNN used its own airtime to try to change public opinion of the voters.  For its own benefit.   Nothing new there. 

I agree that journalism is often used as a PR stunt or as a way to propell various issues into the limelight, but I think in this case, the initial story has spiralled and captured people's imaginations.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1952867/British-Government-releases-UFO-files.html

Over 20 years worth of UFO sightings are now available to view, and some articles I have seen reporting this even include "if you have any UFO sightings YOU'D like to report, please send them in!" at the end. I think this is just media fuelled by media.

It's like how Michael Jackson was in the forefront of the media for like a year after that documentary about him only...y'know...with aliens.

I don't think they would risk knowingly publishing lies (that can be disproven) to promote a film I guess? I just typed sentence and realised that yeah, it is highly possible and I wouldn't put it past them, but I'm not enough of a conspiracy theorist to see it actually happening.

Quote from: Nacho on Wed 25/06/2008 13:50:20
I agree...

I agree that someone who has been paranoid enough to tell that Heath Ledger was killed by Hollywood to promote Batman can believe such things...

Yeh... Some people are fucking idiots  ;)

Everybody is in certain periods!  :)

QuoteSo there's some PR.   And it wasn't a lie really.  Just a situation where CNN used its own airtime to try to change public opinion of the voters.  For its own benefit.   Nothing new there.

Yeah, CNN and Fox 'fair and balanced' are basically horseshit to me and any reasoned, intelligent viewer at this point.  It's clear that they are purely tools for the Republicrat party unity agenda.


As for UFO's...seriously, why do people still harp on this issue?  Are we so desperate to be the center of attention that all we can think of is aliens wanting to abduct and anal probe us?  I'm sure a vastly superior race has better things to do than stick its fingers up strange asses.

Well, the other week The Sun reported about the chopper that was approached & gave chase to a UFO over Cardiff, and at the end of that report they asked for people to send in any photos or experiences they've had. Yesterday they obviously had enough reports compiled from the same day to make it front page news. Plus, they know I'm interested in it, I keep texting them. Maybe they'll include my comment! (See the 'Text us' page, my comments have been in there often). The latest sightings seem realistic, I have no doubt they were seeing space craft. The Cardiff chopper incident is legitimate in my opinion too.

edit - it seems the mobile phone and army people who saw something in Shrops, just saw Chinese lanterns. On reflection, it very well could be. But why did they claim the lights were "zig zagging" ? Maybe it was just blustery... Still, that sighting is the one thats least interested me, there was a significant daytime sighting that was mentioned in The Sun too. I'm yet to see the video of it myself tho, but it looks far more realistic and like the underside of a craft. And to be fair, what the hell would raise from the ground, approach a police helicopter & then zoom off into the distance? A chinese lantern?  :-\

Therefore I don't think it's connected to the X-Files movie in anyway. It's connected to simply being PROOF that "aliens" exist, but people are blind to that. Fair enough. In the last month or two UFO sightings seem to have surged. But better still they're not ones that herald controversy, ie a slow moving object etc, the most of them report the fast moving objects darting about or several lights in a triangle etc similar to the ones I've seen.

I know I can't convince you guys but here's the deal as I see it. There are craft that can pass through other dimensions that are frequently observing us. What's more is that these craft are anything from 20 to 200 foot in size, maybe even more. Can you believe it? Gigantic space-craft ARE visiting earth? If you're quite open to believe this, then you may be in for a nice surprise. If you choose to be sceptical, or what not, you're really only shutting yourself out from a greater truth that is "out there" than you choose to believe.

Surely it is actually better, or more fun, to believe it's real, than to believe its not? If not, I guess you're scared -- but thats fine, I'm a little scared too.

I've said before that anyone here has the same oppurtunity as the next guy to see an alien craft, and if you really want too - you will. And this year is a good time to keep your eye on the skies, because, for some reason, these craft are expecting to be noticed a little more.

Why?

Well, that I don't know! But one of my ideas is their interest in the LHC, which I think will show humans the way to interdimensional travel. Its findings, or the machine itself even, could act, or lay the foundations, for our very own stargate. Also, there is talk of the new Age of Aquarius sometime within the next 100 years. My betting is that it happens in or around 2012. The Mayan calendar ends, and by that point I think we will have all been properly introduced to alien life. We already know there's ice on Mars....what's under that ice?

I've also been in discussion with a friend lately who's explained to me how its quite likely that everything we see, experience, etc, is "held back". It's hard to explain but apparently the speed in which everything runs could be shielded & we are moving four times slower than we should/could be. I'll need to talk to him again but basically he said one day, we will travel four times faster than currently possible. It's something to do with dimensions, I dunno...

Anyway there are a lot of theories but there's simply no convincing some people. Like people who won't believe in Jesus unless they see a miracle themselves, we have people who won't believe in Aliens until they see a spaceship for themselves.

So, I guess I just gotta wait for some people here to have a UFO experience before we can really get into the hot debate about "why" they are here, etc. But trust me, after one sighting, some research on YouTube etc, you too will probably be glued to the fact we're not alone :)

Americans are quite lucky, Clinton actually seemed to try & probe UFOs properly. But didn't find anything :( I've been doing my own research here and there, just tying up some loose ends. The majority of people seem to be saying the same type of UFO's at the moment. Still, I watched loads of videos and found some really good ones. But in all fairness I got completely spooked about the prospect of aliens coming out of a dimension portal in front of me and had to sleep with the light on :P

Some videos I've seen recently that I like...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e7ca2fYLyw Alien abduction on tape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE_C1FXRo20 Blue ghost on CCTV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xlyofmznOs Ghosts in a field?

FINALLY. I was looking at Google earth last night and came across this pattern... Although the photos of my area stored on Google Earth are at least 6 months old, it probably isn't there anymore. But I found this in a field no more than 500 metres away from where I live. Interesting! :D

(http://www.screen7.co.uk/junc/wally01.jpg)

Oh and finally, it would be good if they did some kind of global promotion that was very clever, but I don't think the whole UFO thing is a great idea. It's nice to interest people in a film but its a completely different thing to fuck up peoples ideas about these sort of strange happenings. I remember when we had a mini quake in the UK, people thought it was an "advert" for Cloverfield, hehe!

ps; I just found out what my image is...it's pig pens! The circle is made by the circular pigs swill bucket thing and the lines are created by marked out pens. I've found a few around. Damnit, I was so sure... :p

QuoteSurely it is actually better, or more fun, to believe it's real, than to believe its not?"

That basically sums it all up. The disagreement here is if it's more fun to believe in scraps of ancient numerology and pop culture monsters than all the things you can learn if you DON'T throw your critical thinking abilities down the drain on fantasies.

I think VWG is right, UFO sightings and media coverage feed off each other, there's probably no media conspiracy.

QuoteI've said before that anyone here has the same oppurtunity as the next guy to see an alien craft, and if you really want too - you will.

that is the main problem i have with UFO sightings - people want to believe that what they're seeing is extra-terrestrial so to them there is no other explenation.
i mean, i can believe that the moon is a space station, but that doesn't mean that it is.
the kind of thinking behind "i don't know what it is so it must be alien" is not in the least bit rational.
believing that something is an alien UFO doesn't make it so, there have UFO sightings on earth for thousands of years and there are even prehistoric cave paintings of them but that alone doesn't make them real, and i bet you that a majority of people that do think they're real and that have seen UFOs are people that not only believe in them but who also watch too much star trek and sci-fi in general.
now, i don't really believe that earth is the only planet in the entire universe that has life on it, that just seems a bit narrow minded to me. but at the same time i don't believe that any species technologically advanced enough to travel at lightspeed or "shift between dimensions" would be stupid enough to let what is basically a much more primitive species see it and then zoom off or just disappear.
the same goes for people tha believe in ghost sightings too.
so in short then: believing something is real doesn't make it real.

Quote from: Mods on Thu 26/06/2008 14:17:17
I know I can't convince you guys but here's the deal as I see it. There are craft that can pass through other dimensions that are frequently observing us. What's more is that these craft are anything from 20 to 200 foot in size, maybe even more. Can you believe it? Gigantic space-craft ARE visiting earth? If you're quite open to believe this, then you may be in for a nice surprise. If you choose to be sceptical, or what not, you're really only shutting yourself out from a greater truth that is "out there" than you choose to believe.

What are us skeptics missing out on?   Statistically, I have a pretty good chance of seeing an alien since all those witnesses say "I didn't believe in aliens till I saw one."  What am I shutting myself out from?   The fruitless searching of the skies?

Quote from: Mods on Thu 26/06/2008 14:17:17
I've said before that anyone here has the same oppurtunity as the next guy to see an alien craft, and if you really want too - you will. And this year is a good time to keep your eye on the skies, because, for some reason, these craft are expecting to be noticed a little more.

What if I go looking for other stuff in the sky?  I hope you don't say that I'm less likely to see one simply because I don't believe in UFOs.  Are aliens the angels from "Angels in the Outfield"?    You can't get away with saying "you have to believe it to see it"  because how did the first siting happen?   The first UFO witness didn't believe in UFOs, did he?   Unless he imagined there COULD be aliens.... and believed solely based on his imagination.    Even if there are UFOs, surely you'll admit most sitings are people's imaginations.

Really mods, any other argument will do but avoid anything that resembles Tinkerbell.

I bet there will be more UFO's till movie release.

Evenwolf, not really sure what you're on about -- all I was saying is that there is stuff out there to see so go see it. I've seen stuff to make me question things "beyond" what I know as reality since I was a kid, and that I don't believe this is stunt or hoax, its the real deal. Even if it's just earthly technology we're being shadowed from, doesn't that make you curious?

I don't know how you can say most of the sightings are peoples imaginations. If your brain can conjure up a bright spinning object above your head then that's great, but for most people including me thats not so easy!

The fact they've been documented since the dawn of man as Boyd points out is surely a good enough indication that they exist. To be fair it would have been far easier for the first person who saw one to speculate that it was something not of this earth. They barely knew what "round" was, I'm surprised they even knew how to fuck. But they still managed to draw the strange objects they saw in the sky. In todays world we have all sorts of crap that could, and in a lot of cases do, account for the sightings. Balloons, mostly. Weather phenomena too.

There have been a lot of co-incidences with all this paranormal stuff lately. For example, the guy that was doing a show, talking to the dead. He was pestered by a gran & made him single out a woman in the audience, saying she had been raped. The gran was distressed that this monster had gotten away with it. I dont think he mentioned that exactly as there was an audience but she left sobbing, and very soon after confessed she had been raped when she was younger. Weeks later the man was convicted of rape & they found out he'd raped 2 other girls too. And this all thanks to the girls dead gran. How do you explain that? If you can find a "weather balloon" or "imagination" explanation to that I'm all ears :o

Also, I can't believe I'm the only person on these boards to see some kind of UFO. Or anything paranormal for that matter. Or anything that just makes you question your own existence a little bit more. And it's hard to find interesting people who take it seriously too! But ho-hum :)

My mother reported seeing a UFO while she was younger.   But nowadays she admits that she was taking her biploar medication and can't even be certain she saw anything alien at all.   Today she retracts the UFO siting.

I have difficulty believing my ears when the witness's sobriety may be in question.    Humans lie on a daily basis just to push product.   What makes them so much more trustworthy or reliable regarding aliens?   Moreso, if the person is telling the truth about what they BELIEVE they saw, they still aren't verifying what they saw.   

Quote from: Mods on Fri 27/06/2008 01:17:46
There have been a lot of co-incidences with all this paranormal stuff lately. For example, the guy that was doing a show, talking to the dead. He was pestered by a gran & made him single out a woman in the audience, saying she had been raped. The gran was distressed that this monster had gotten away with it. I dont think he mentioned that exactly as there was an audience but she left sobbing, and very soon after confessed she had been raped when she was younger. Weeks later the man was convicted of rape & they found out he'd raped 2 other girls too. And this all thanks to the girls dead gran. How do you explain that? If you can find a "weather balloon" or "imagination" explanation to that I'm all ears :o

It's called a "hot reading".

Is this a John Edwards kind of guy who pretends to talk to the dead?      Yes, that is a hoax.   Most of the time the audience will be probed on the way in "What are you hoping to find out today?"   or "Who are you hoping to contact?"  Talking to the dead is one of the most despicable of all scams.    If you have verified sources I may go further to disprove it.    But your description is shady enough that  disproving the facts simply isn't a factor here.    I've got nothing to work off except an old wives tale .    I believe that all psychics are frauds and this episode of Penn & Teller does well to describe the phenomenon.

Talking to the Dead! I want to believe! pt1  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRaEiP1Gx_E)   pt 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh44WLCYbNU)    pt 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RphSZvN555A)

I really, really detest Penn Gilette but I think on some things he's absolutely right.  Personally, I'd refer people to James Randi any day of the week before I'd refer them to Penn & Teller (as far as debunking goes).  He really is the expert on such things.

http://www.randi.org/

Penn idolizes Randi.  Randi frequently appears on Bullshit as a credible counter point to the fraudulent.

Penn is really smart and most of these topics are related.  Virgin Mary, UFO, and ghost sitings are all circumstances of pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia).    All these things are related because people are victims of their own imaginations WANTING to believe.    You can understand why Penn can't help being an asshole to those people sometimes.  He desperately wants them to drop the bullshit...   and gets a little ego boost from seeing through the BS himself.

The only difference between Penn and say Randi is the different personality types.   Penn is such a big personality and can't help putting his ego into the wager of whether its true or false.  Randi is much more patient.

What bothers me about Penn is as much as he pretends to be a free-thinker and not buying into bias he was right there to suck up the nonsense about Ron Paul writing racist propaganda (which has since been proven entirely false) and he's also one of those libertarian-hypocrites that won't stand up and vote for a person regardless of whether they think they can win or not.  That's just one of the things I have against him.

Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 27/06/2008 13:03:17
What bothers me about Penn is as much as he pretends to be a free-thinker and not buying into bias he was right there to suck up the nonsense about Ron Paul writing racist propaganda (which has since been proven entirely false) and he's also one of those libertarian-hypocrites that won't stand up and vote for a person regardless of whether they think they can win or not.  That's just one of the things I have against him.

If you mean during the primaries that's one thing.   Voting for Ron Paul would have been a good move.  The press didn't cover him nearly enough.


But any conservative who thinks Obama will harm America..... and so votes for Bob Barr.    Um.... well that's not the best move.   You waste your vote during the general election if you don't vote for Obama or McCain.   No one in Tennessee had ANY business voting for Nader in 2000.   Those votes were a factor towards Bush's victory and harmed the nation in irreparable ways. 

I don't believe in either:

a) Wasting your vote

or

b) Voting for the lesser of two evils


Voting for who you believe in is the foundation of American Democracy.  To do otherwise is disingenuous and self-defeating.  I think the main problem with society now is that everyone is so obsessed with being on the winning team that they don't realize that if they just stick with the side they believe in they could very well win.  And it's not just about winning, it's about ideals and believing in something strongly enough to stand by it.  I certainly have no confidence in Obama, Hillary, or McCain when they're just CFR toadies, and I also don't believe in party unity for the sake of it.  This is why I support Ron Paul even now, because he's always been very logical and reasonable in his views and doesn't buy the party unity scam.  If people have a difference in ideals then they need to resolve those issues, not bury them behind a war horse like McCain who won't do anything good for the nation.  I'm not specifically talking about Barr because our current climate does everything it possibly can to marginalize 3rd party candidates, which is wrong and needs to change.  Anyway, this is veering way off topic so I'll just say:

Watch They Live if you like alien conspiracy films. 

So long as the voter understands that we live in a representative democracy,  then I'm happy when they vote for whomever they wish.

But swing states with ill-informed voters don't jive well with me.

well, I'd really love to have aliens crawling the place with blasters and stuff but the very fact is this.. Do you have any idea how close is the closest solar system(not the one with living forms)? About more than a year with the light of speed. And another fact, what if we managed to get the light of speed. What makes you think a human life form could sustain the G's? It's virtually impossible.

Quote from: Dualnames on Fri 27/06/2008 20:34:34
Do you have any idea how close is the closest solar system(not the one with living forms)?

And how close is the one with living forms?

I think proxima centauri is 2 lightyears away, not sure if it has planets... first "solar system" that "might" have life 42 l.y. I think... Still, the possibility of that "live" being something more than cells is smaller (Being a civilization almost impossible).

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/02/article-0-01D0EEC300000578-32_468x286.jpg)


Viral Marketing is supposedly "news" (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031062/Faceless-aliens-spotted-crowd-Wimbledon.html)

http://www.facelesspeople.com/


Lotus cars unveiling a new sports car...  but I sense there might be cross promotion with X-Files.   What do you think?   


I happen to think, "DAMN YOU J.J. Abrams!  Damn you viral marketing!"

Interesting topic. I personally think aliens are living amongst us right now. Bush, for example; there's no way he's on the same planet as the rest of us ;)

Peoples arguments of "The human body couldn't make that kind of trip" and "There is no technology enabling us to travel that far" is rather illogical. If aliens exist, why would they be the same as us? The mere fact they are alien implies a different physiology and that they have acclimated to a very different sort of living, so their technology would be vastly different, possibly superior, possibly lesser, but the point is you can't argue with someones belief when your whole argument is "Well we can't do it, so no one can."

Quote from: [Cameron] on Fri 04/07/2008 15:39:31
Peoples arguments of "The human body couldn't make that kind of trip" and "There is no technology enabling us to travel that far" is rather illogical. If aliens exist, why would they be the same as us? The mere fact they are alien implies a different physiology and that they have acclimated to a very different sort of living, so their technology would be vastly different, possibly superior, possibly lesser, but the point is you can't argue with someones belief when your whole argument is "Well we can't do it, so no one can."

Saying "We can't do it... It's unlikely they can do it" is logical. It is a statement based on the observation of the only tecnological society we can examine (our). Saying "they might can" is illogical... It' s based on nothing. Extraordinary statemets need extraordinary evidences, and the evidences of they visiting us are extremelly weak. If you say there is a dragon under your bed, prove it.

But it' s not just that "we can' t do it..."

The thing is in 3600 million years of life in earth, only a race (us) managed to have a tecnology greater than just using a stick or a stone.

Maybe a tecnological society is not so common as we think.

Anyway, what is illogical is to think that those guys are smart enough for travelling for million years and then, here, they are stupid enough to forget of switching the lights of the saucer off...

Quote from: Nacho on Fri 04/07/2008 16:52:39
Saying "We can't do it... It's unlikely they can do it" is logical. It is a statement based on the observation of the only tecnological society we can examine.
...
Maybe a tecnological society is not so common as we think.

But you've just said exactly what I'm saying Nacho. What we assume of another race is based purely on knowledge of our own world. It is logical to make assumptions within our world, based on our world, but to assume that a planet in a far away galaxy can't do something based on what we know of ourselves is illogical. It's galactic apples and oranges!
Also, there are some societies on this planet which are not technological, so it's entirely likely that an alien race is not as technological as us, I said that myself. I'm more talking about the biological side of things here rather than the technological.
When people say that life couldn't exist on other planets, because we haven't found one like Earth, and it's our unique planet that supports life, it seems rather silly because to say that to be recognized as life, a species must be like us, is rather arrogant.
It's like saying Hamsters can't survive in an aquarium. This is obviously true. But in that aquarium, which is vastly different to a cage, is a place where fish can live because their biology permits then to exist exclusively underwater.

As said, I am based on something to say they are not able to arrive here. Your idea is based in... nothing.

I ask you again... Dragons exist?

Quote from: [Cameron] on Fri 04/07/2008 17:36:38
It's like saying Hamsters can't survive in an aquarium. This is obviously true. But in that aquarium, which is vastly different to a cage, is a place where fish can live because their biology permits then to exist exclusively underwater.

Whatever you need to say to debate the existence of aliens, be my guest.

I'd like to go out on a limb and say searching for alien life by looking for similar conditions which led to life on earth is  the best method.    That's not to say there's not non-carbon based lifeforms out there.   

But for the same reason a fish would expect a hamster to breathe with gills, humans believe that aliens use similar means of transportation.      I'll stick with the opinion that these lifeforms have no plausibility of driving around in big metal cars like humans.   It's literally science fiction in the sense that the idea never existed before these comic books and movies in the 1950's.  Earlier sitings would have been attributed to some other false deity.

Hence, sitings of flying metal saucers = bogus.

Aliens could be visiting us. They could be visiting us in metal vehicles. Are they, though? Well, it's hopefully obvious where the burden of evidence lies. So, to keep the discussion in the realm of the useful, let's do this: how about the UFO believers pick out one particular piece of evidence that you find particularly convincing, and we can discuss that. I think this is more fertile than throwing general conclusions around.

In regards to my original post -
Every Sun since this thread began has included at least one article about UFO's and this Saturday's Sun newspaper (owned by Murdoch remember) was advertising a section of their website called...

The British X-Files (http://www.thesun.co.uk/britishxfiles)

Still not convinced that it has a little something to do with the new movie released by FOX (also Murdoch) in less than a month?

It certainly makes them more likely to publish UFO related articles than normal.

Evidence I'd like to suggest is crop circles.

From this month:

(http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/eastkennett/IMG0623adjusted.jpg)
(lunar eclipse in aug this year using mayan calendar)

From June this year:

(http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/furze/P70474611fgh.jpg)

(http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/barbury/jm466442.jpg)
(the pi symbol)

From August 2001:

(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/crop0108.jpg)

All from Wiltshire, UK. It gets dark at about 10pm and light by 4am. Fuck knows how a group of people could carry out so much accuracy in such a short space of time. And did you know the crop is undamaged, though sometimes perfectly mutilated to "bend"?

Those ARE cropcircles.  I will not disagree with you.   On the origin of cropcircles however...


Its just ropes, boards, and a lot of spare time.   Cropcircles are an art form like anything else. ( graffiti comes to mind)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a_opN9ghPKQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=niH9ClOse3M

Beautiful stuff indeed, but not inhuman.  There's a group called Circlemakers who even make a profit from these circles.  They've become fantastically specialized.  If you own some land & you want to be on the local news look no further.



So which part of the post above are you providing as evidence?  The quality of the craftsmanship? I've provided evidence of humans creating crop circles... mods if you could provide evidence of aliens making them...    I will then believe you..  After all I want to believe, I really do.

On the matter of darkness and the impossibility of such precision.... wouldn't a hovering UFO with a laser be more visible than a few guys on foot?

crop circls are made by dudes. its da pyramids that da aliens mad

Quote from: darrkchylde on Wed 09/07/2008 04:55:24
crop circls are made by dudes. its da pyramids that da aliens mad

dats gut ta knowz.

To clarify, when I asked for a particular piece of evidence, I meant something along the lines of this particular case of crop circles. Throwing out an entire category of evidence doesn't provide much grounds for evaluation. If I were talking to a young-Earth creationist, and I got the same kind of request--if I said "Okay, transitional fossils! How 'bout it?"--where would we go from there? If I said "Alright, how about Tiktaalik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik)?" we could immediately get to why I find that particular piece of evidence compelling and why my opponent does not, which is really the core of the issue: why does the evidence convince you, and why does it not convince me--or vice versa.

Don't worry, the solution is at hand!!

(http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/temp/ufo.png)

So there we go folks -- if an alien invasion happens, we just need to whip up some tornados.

Never mind the dark splodge, CJ.  It's obvious that your avatar is a close-up of that...
I'm more worried about that strange red circle surrounding it.

Read that in the sun today, good stuff! I don't really want to dish out evidence, seen as I did it before, and all I heard back was "No", "No" and "No". So I can't be arsed to go into it anymore. With a new video, a new sighting, a new old case re-emerging everyday, I think you've got all the evidence you need. Its down to personal belief, and whether you want to say "yes" or "no. Still, I truly believe you'll get your evidence between now and 2013. So just wait a while :)

Interesting new videos showing something
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1C223Nvjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSkCqHwlJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjoMgZgJ74s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CcxK7X7ZxQ

If anyone can tell me what man-made objects or crafts or things that can travel about 7000mph then please, pray tell :) I heard a quote on one of these videos last night, when, not long after Pearl Harbour & America's nuke retaliation, how 14 or so objects appeared on radar. Jets were scrambled and they dissapeared from radar. Jets returned, they appeared again. One jet was then surrounded by several glowing objects.

Can we really assume that military personel, radar operators watching the White House etc are going to bullshit? Is it even SAFE for us to believe they're "seeing things"? These are people trained with precision accuracy on all aerial matters etc. Airline pilots see these things frequently. Are they going to bullshit when they have 300 lives to worry about? Can we really believe its atmospheric stuff? Ball lightning is barely out there on video, but UFO sightings...?

Watched the videos.   The third one was the only one I'm convinced was not doctored footage or a remote control vehicle.  Looked like a plane.

I love the 1st part of the fourth video (the mexican teen getting pawed at).

I can just hear the conversation before the event happend:

[potential] Victim: Hey man, can your cellphone take video?

Friend w/ Cellphone: Why as a matter of fact it can!

[potential] Victim: I have a great idea!  Why don't you, for no reason, record me walking away from you.  As I approach that pole over there I will, again for no reason, step a little closer to it!  Who knows?  It might turn out to be a great video!

Friend w/ Cellphone: What a great idea!

Come on!  Do they really expect anybody not to see how staged that was?  But the "mexican teen swears the footage is real" ... well, if he swears it.

Entertaining? Yes.

Laughably fake?  Indeed :)


As for the footage of the crafts flying about. 

They are most definitely UFOs. 

Aliens?  Nah :)

Hehe, I like it. Watch the full clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS9vFXQo50E

He follows the path and steps toward the dropped ball, thats all. I agree his movement is a bit odd. But I still think it could be genuine.

1. Its definitely a mobile phone camera. The comping in of the alien is too perfect
2. There's plenty of stuff beforehand to show nothing is happening near the pole, could someone really hide there? And someone with an arm twice the length of our own, or someone with a fake arm? Good hiding if they did

Still, there's a funny sequel... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7arAvGBMBAo  which shows it is possible to hide there...

Despite the possibly fake alien there is still the ghosts footage, IMO the freakiest of all the UFO/alien etc videos I've seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xlyofmznOs 

but thats not really to do with UFOs.

So, tell me. Why can't these things belong to aliens? Why are you guys saying there are no such thing as aliens? I'm sure there are species out there wanting to focus purely on science and space travel, and not playstations, 9 til 5's and war.

One more vid! Norad gets involved: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpsVDopXLEs

Quote from: Mods on Thu 10/07/2008 01:49:03
Despite the possibly fake alien there is still the ghosts footage, IMO the freakiest of all the UFO/alien etc videos I've seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xlyofmznOs 

The family camping in the woods -   they seem to be looking at something like a flashlight moving over a mosquito net.  Or simply over the leaves of trees.   Its wavy like smoke but doesn't move like smoke so I believe the waviness is due to the leaves or the screen material.   I'd love to try to recreate the effect to see if it could be done as convincing as this instance.

Its totally possible it wasnt staged by the person filming, but by a friend trying to scare them.   But why is the camera on a tripod if this was so quickly "Hey what was that?!  Set the camera up on a tripod and film toward those trees!"

Quote from: Mods on Thu 10/07/2008 01:49:03So, tell me. Why can't these things belong to aliens? Why are you guys saying there are no such thing as aliens? I'm sure there are species out there wanting to focus purely on science and space travel, and not playstations, 9 til 5's and war.

I definitely think there are aliens out there.

I truly believe there are even races of aliens out there that are exploring the universe for other intelligent life (do we qualify?).

But "space is big.  Really big.  You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is."  They could spend eons searching and never find anything.  I think it extremely unlikely that the two separate species/races would ever bump into each-other.  Even if they did they might well not recognize the other as a form of life.

* shrugs *

This is, however, one of those things I would love to be proven wrong on :)

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Thu 10/07/2008 03:13:52
This is, however, one of those things I would love to be proven wrong on :)

Which is why we need to be careful not to jump the gun with inconclusive evidence... and need to scrutinize potential fakes and not encourage others to turn a profit on other people's imaginations.   (unless they are honest about lying... like Steven Spielberg's filmmaking* for example)



(Unless George Lucas wrote the script... then it probably should be discouraged :) )

Still, I think it's a very important point to remember that even the skeptics (a term I tend to use in a positive sense) think the prospect of, say, alien visitation is just as awesome as the believers think it is. We would love to be proven wrong. I hear time and time again UFO believers, alternative medicine folk, psi proponents and such claim that the skeptics want them to be wrong, feel that their world-view is threatened, and desperately try to avoid the notion. Nothing could be further from the truth. Seriously, you think I wouldn't absolutely love to see an alien or even traces of one, cure cancer with water, or communicate telepathically? I would! You seriously think most scientists would feel threatened by having another riddle to solve? No, that's why most of them became scientists in the first place! So why would they be denying it in absurdum and refuse to be convinced out of pure stubbornness, as suggested? Without even bringing the whole philosophy of science into it, I think the mere implausibility of that attitude coming from people who love finding out how stuff really is (even if it's sort of fucked up, like relativity theory or quantum mechanics, or threatening to an existing philosophy, like evolution--all of which caught on fairly quickly given sufficient evidence--because they make sense!) regarding a subject that is absolutely awesome should be enough to shatter that idea... But apparently it's not. And you know why I think this is? Because, unlike with a skeptic, there's no convincing a believer...

Quote from: Mods on Wed 09/07/2008 02:33:36
Evidence I'd like to suggest is crop circles.

From this month:

pic

From June this year:

pic

pic

From August 2001:
pic

All from Wiltshire, UK. It gets dark at about 10pm and light by 4am. Fuck knows how a group of people could carry out so much accuracy in such a short space of time. And did you know the crop is undamaged, though sometimes perfectly mutilated to "bend"?

WILTSHIRE! ARRRRRR... Why did you post a picture of my garden M0ds?

Hehehe...because it has pretty circles in it!

Latest on UFOs that I've been checking up on, is the blue ring ufo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSjWG608RI (california)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=481845wv5Q0 (rocky mountains)

And being seen all over the world are the moving UFO fleets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb5ftznMvMo (oxon, down the road from me!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGDGXuTMpYE (dundee, wisconsin)

Also come to light is a recording of two fighter jet pilots circling & inspecting a hovering object from a couple of years ago, both cannot explain why it is motionless in the sky.

There's a nice compilation of UFOs in the news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE0ewjpLuc0

Someone also spotted a UFO in nuke test footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQfLPL--tKQ

And some more in infra red. I hope to get an IR capable camera at some point in my life, if these guys haven't made themselves known before then. But I think they will :)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1462047.ece

MOONWALK astronaut Edgar Mitchell has revealed aliens exist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

well he of all should know it

Edgar Mitchell is a die hard believer who never stop surprising us with things like that from time to time... He was one of the "witnesses" of the Roswell Incident, being proved after that he never had nothing to see with that events. He might be senile, or something... People like him is what in the "skeptic" word is labeled as a "elite witness", which basically means "important people can goofe as well...".

Like the scientists building the Nuke-Bomb in the Manhattan project... They called the officer in task of the AA gun to shoot to the "object" they were seeing in the sky and that was going to "attack the residential complex where they and their families were living". The officer replied that "I don't care how many nobels they have, I am not going to shoot to Venus".

Yes, there can be "freaks" also in the high spheres.

He can be sane and really believe he's right.  That doesn't mean he is right, though.  After listening to his interview he's just spouting the same spiel people like Marcel did about Roswell.  I think that the 'story' of UFO's has become so widespread that basically everyone knows the stories and start to subconsciously borrow from the whole UFO culture to form abduction stories, contact events, and the like.

Also note that at the end of the interview he clearly admits he has no firsthand experience and cites 'friends' who have seen UFO's and aliens as evidence.

Just the other night I was driving at night and saw some hovering lights.   I started thinking about mods and this thread.   The lights were WAY up there and I had no idea what it could be.   

Checklist:  plane... no, helicopter, no.   Building.... way too high.

The next day I drove past the same area and realized I had been staring up at a mountain.    The lights were just HIGH HIGH HIGH up there and it was otherwise pitch black...   if I had been slightly intoxicated I'm sure I would have SWORN it was a UFO.   On that note, there are too many unexplained phenomenon that aren't phenomenal at all.  I don't trust second hand stories one bit.

Wrote a long reply, session timed out, extremely pissed off and cant be arsed to retype.

Just keep an eye on the evidence flowing in from all corners of the world. That interview with the astronaut is a real eye opener, like Tuomas says, not really someone who's going to bullshit. Anyone with Virgin On demand should watch The Day After Roswell, another good show to get you thinking.

Evenwolf, so whats your explanation? People climbing the mountain?

It was a house.

Sorry, mods, I checked at least half of the videos you posted and one is more rediculous than the other. If there's a tiny lightened point in the air then why does it have to be an ufo? If there's a flashlight pointing at the trees then why does it have to be an alien?

Why do you watch these videos? If you see an ufo yourself, hell, yeah, then you could and perhaps should believe that there's something going on but don't believe in such stupid faked or real footage that doesn't show anything.

I've seen several UFO's matti, two this year alone, which is exactly why I'm checking out these "stupid" videos. And they weren't just lights in the sky. They were lights in the sky pulling un-earthly manovueres and travelling silently at several thousands of miles per hour. I have several mates with credible accounts too. Im just amazed that of our 5000 members Im the only person to come forward with some kind of sighting!

I am curious about where do you draw the line of "reliable" M0ds... Do you really think that the Roswell Incident is reliable?

If your answer was yes, I am sorry, you are my friend and you' ll allways be, but your level of reliability goes down to 0. If you believe that this "Roswell incident" was true, there' s no need for you to go on posting "evidences", because you' ll prooved that you want to believe everything...

(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20080529.gif) (http://"http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1192")

This goes for a lot of those sightings.  :P

Quote from: Nacho on Sun 27/07/2008 15:21:20
I am curious about where do you draw the line of "reliable" M0ds... Do you really think that the Roswell Incident is reliable?

If your answer was yes, I am sorry, you are my friend and you' ll allways be, but your level of reliability goes down to 0. If you believe that this "Roswell incident" was true, there' s no need for you to go on posting "evidences", because you' ll prooved that you want to believe everything...

So I'm not allowed to believe in Roswell? I don't follow...

I have no proof that it happened or not, but several thousand newspaper articles & the same number of documentaries makes one wonder. I definitely think its a reliable source of not being given the whole truth, thats for sure. Roswell is only famous because it was essentially the first "crash" to hit global media, which was fairly new at the time. But these incidents aren't old...something like that happens every year, but its just not covererd any more because of - what I assume - is the contreversy those kind of incidents and cover ups create. I said previously that some governments have already come clean & stressed there are objects in the sky that could be of extra terrestrial nature.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/23512

People here have wild imaginations, they can conjure up great, weird storylines for games & other creative things - but show them a thousand video clips of UFOs and they say "Nah, not real". I don't see the justification in dreaming up stuff but being completely ignorant to what is actually going on above. But then saying that is a bit like you mentioning our friendship over this matter Nacho...completely irrelevant  :-\

Still. People can make up there own minds. There's a UFO thread and I'm interested in UFOs so I'm going to continue to post significant videos and things I would consider to be evidence.

More military high ranks stating these things exist
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LIC7FfugdqE

And another plain sighting, which was investigated by a chap from ILM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NazfLbO8YZ

Anyway, at least these aliens are friendly. And at least we will have alien disclosure before FoY is released ;)

You are allowed to believe in Roswell... but if you do, having all the info about the "incident" we do have now, your value as a contertulios in this topic reaches cero, since you would prove you are open to believe in anything.

Sorry, I don't have a clue what either of your posts mean  :-\

Anyway, I saw another one tonight, making the total I've seen 5, 4 this year alone. Again, a very fast and larger object than the last ones I've seen before, so I'm happy :) At Mittens you can spend 20 minutes with me and see one too :D

There's "believing" and there's "seeing". I've been going on what I've SEEN rather than what I choose to BELIEVE, so Im fairly sure that makes my comments still quite significant in this thread. I'm sorry you're not so open as to what lies above.

Nacho is referring to the declassified Project Mogul, the research project on the sound channel using weather balloons and "flying disc" microphones.

[eric] posted a fascinating Berkley physics lecture on it, which answered all the questions and was quite profound.   I agree with Nacho that refuting the evidence in this video as a government cover-up lowers a person's credibility in my book...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622

All around that "Roswell case" is so shabby that if you still believe that there was an intergallactic incident there you are automatically invalidated as a witness... For me, you saying "believe me, that lights I see in the sky are alien spacecrafts" if you recognised that you believe in Roswell, is like someone saying "Believe me, I have seen fairies in the forest, and Mickey Mouse told me they are real".

It' s not just that the existence of project Mogul debunks all the mythology about the Roswell incident. Everything around that "incident" is silly.

Let's  review the case:

The "object" Mack Brazel found in his farm (big as a table, 48 kilos of duct tape, wood and plastic) had signs of having been there for days, or even weeks. It has nothing to see with the catastrophic intergallactic incident that Hollywood made us believe. The Sheriff George Wilcox, and the Mayor Jesse Marcel investigated the object for days before mentioning a word to the media. Nothing to see with the "commotion" that mistery sellers told the "object" provoqued. Why the incident was finally mentioned to the media? Easy. Col. William Blanchard, the commander of Roswell Base, was on holydays. The day before of his comeback he called the base: "Announce we have a saucer". He was really smart. If they really had a UFO, he would be the first american militar to recover one. If not, he could say "I was not there, my guys pissed it off, not me". Let' s remember that the first UFO sighting was done only a week ago, by Kenneth Arnold.

The day he came back, second officer Newton, Gen. Ramey' s (a commander who went there to see the "object") aggregate, and who worked as a metereologist in Okinawa, recognised the object as a balloon. The rests were shown to the media and nobody ever believed that something weird happened there in those days. Even the number one of "Fate" magazine, a paranormal devouted magazine which accepted everything did not mention the case. Even the compilation of famous cases till 1966 made by NICAP and APRO doesn' t mention it.

Till our friend "Bermuda triangle" Berlitz came in 1980, of course... He allowed the rumours to grow for 30 years and used the people desire of their 5 minutes of glory to make a funny compilation of interviews... Dozens, even hundreds, according to him. The problem is that those interviews are silly.

Mayor Marcel, who claimed that transported the bodies by plane was not a pilot... (Consequently not a WWII ace as he claimed as well). He did was not a physic neither, as he never had superior studies, but that' s another history...

Lidya Sleepy (who claimed that FBI interrupted a message about the saucer she was transmiting with her teletype) was operating a teletype machine that required the permission of the operator to cancel a message to receive a new incoming one.

Loretta Proctor (who said that the rest were unable to bend, burn or break) changed her testimony when her husband (Who said he never saw the rests) died. Before she recongised she never saw the rests as well...

Melvin E. Brown' s testimony (Who said he saw the bodies) was made... years after his death. It was his daughter who said (saying it for first years after his father' s death) that about the bodies. No other Brown' s relative mentioned that Melvin confessed them something regarding the bodies. Anyway, Brown was a cook and was not able to enter in the restricted areas where his daughter mentioned he saw the bodies.

Dennis, the undertaker, changed his testimony. He didn' t remember anything about "bodies" till 1980, when he said "The militars asked me for my smallest coffins". He changed that to "They bought me two small coffins because they wanted to conserve two aliens bodies" to "I went to the base with both coffins and I saw the bodies". When he was asked about his previous testimonies, he recognised he saw no bodies, but a base nurse mentioned it to him (A nurse that was never found)

And the list goes on till having 0 witnesses of the bodies, and only 6 witnesses of the rests. Not "hundreds" as Berlitz claimed.

One of that 6 is doubtfull. 4 didn't  approach to the rests enough to see anything, and the 6th says that what he had in his hands was... a ballon.

As you see... Roswell case is a big bluff.

Quote from: Nacho on Mon 28/07/2008 07:43:11
As you see... Roswell case is a big bluff.

What the..? That's the worst debunking ever! You rant on about how you need m0ds to show you evidence to even consider believing he's slightly right, and you post this? Do post a link to your source at least.

Quote from: matti on Sun 27/07/2008 01:23:22
Sorry, mods, I checked at least half of the videos you posted and one is more rediculous than the other. If there's a tiny lightened point in the air then why does it have to be an ufo? If there's a flashlight pointing at the trees then why does it have to be an alien?

Can you please make a vid on how to get a flashlight on trees to turn into strong lights in the sky moving around in formation? Are you just going to deny it is real because you can't see a UFO coming over to the camera with a sign saying "I'm an alien"? Anyways, unless you can identify what the lights are, there isn't much you can disprove about them being UFO's. If they are alien, I dunno, but I wouldn't really be surprised.

Yeah... saying that the total amount of witnesses goes from "hundreds mentioning a saucer" to "one mentioning a balloon" is sooooo weak as an argument...

QuoteDo post a link to your source at least.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/roswell.html (http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/roswell.html)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html (http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html)

These are 2 short briefs... for further explanations there are some good books also... Far better that the ones by "Mr. Bermuda Triangle man", at least.

Quote from: vict0r on Mon 28/07/2008 11:14:10

Quote from: matti on Sun 27/07/2008 01:23:22
Sorry, mods, I checked at least half of the videos you posted and one is more rediculous than the other. If there's a tiny lightened point in the air then why does it have to be an ufo? If there's a flashlight pointing at the trees then why does it have to be an alien?

Can you please make a vid on how to get a flashlight on trees to turn into strong lights in the sky moving around in formation?

With the flashlight I referred to "the freakiest of all the UFO/alien etc videos" Mods has ever seen, the
"Most Authentic ghost footage of all time???" how it's called on YouTube.

Well, all you can see is a flashlight in a wood first pointing towards the camera and then moving over some trees. That's just rediculous.

Quote from: vict0r on Mon 28/07/2008 11:14:10
Are you just going to deny it is real because you can't see a UFO coming over to the camera with a sign saying "I'm an alien"? Anyways, unless you can identify what the lights are, there isn't much you can disprove about them being UFO's. If they are alien, I dunno, but I wouldn't really be surprised.

1. No, there's no need for a sign like that. But it actually has to LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT FROM EARTH. I've never seen something like that and no video has ever shown something like that. If there are some lights in the sky, then WHAT THE HECK? The sky is full of flying stuff but it's not full of UFOs!

2. I want to see it myself. I don't want to see blurry footage that could be anything - faked or not faked...

3. What do you think is going on then? Some UFOs entering Earth's orbit, unseen, unscanned, unrecognized, quietly moving around? Only seen by some guys with a cheap blurry camera? And they don't matter, they're only good for appearing on YouTube? And does one need a third eye or something to spot these saucers?
What are they planning? To bother and irritate a few people at night? No contact but Eyecontact? They just want to present their latest technology to impress those savage humans..?

4. And last but not least: How come you people can live a normal life when believing that every week a flying saucer passes earth? Is it just everyday-life? Interesting but not astounding?

Some people says skeptics are sectarian.

We see a light in the sky and we say: "It can be a million of different things. I don' t think it is an alien spacecraft".

"Believers" say: "I give a shit about that other 9,999,999 possibilities. It' s an alien spacecraft". Who is the sectarian here?

Saying "you can' t prove it's not an alien!" is silly. We do not need to prove they are not aliens, as we do not need to prove Smurfs, or dragons do not exist. It is you who make the extraodinary claim. Prove it.

Saying "If you don' t see that lights as an alien, you won' t ever believe in Aliens even if they get out of the ship and wave tour hands in front of your face" is silly. That "lights" have been proved to be everything but aliens, even in spectacular cases as this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=020Wgbw-PcU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=020Wgbw-PcU)

So, sorry... yes, I want them to approax a bit more, get out of the spacecraft, and wave their hands.

Quote from: Mods on Sun 27/07/2008 10:59:12
I've seen several UFO's matti, two this year alone, which is exactly why I'm checking out these "stupid" videos. And they weren't just lights in the sky. They were lights in the sky pulling un-earthly manovueres and travelling silently at several thousands of miles per hour.

Why do you conclude that they were traveling at several thousand miles per hour? Was it possible to accurately judge their distance somehow?

Quote from: Nacho on Mon 28/07/2008 13:38:14
We see a light in the sky and we say: "It can be a million of different things. I don' t think it is an alien spacecraft".
"Believers" say: "I give a shit about that other 9,999,999 possibilities. It' s an alien spacecraft". Who is the sectarian here?

I'm not really saying that it has to be an alien spacecraft. Thing is, you can't give me a good explanation of what, for example, those lights in the sky making formations are. By the way they move and act I would say that something intelligent is controlling them, although it doesn't seem like something human-made like an airplane or even satelites, right? What is it? I dunno! Aliens? Maybe. UFO? Definitely. Fake? I see no traces of fakeness here, but please enlighten me Nacho. :)

I don't believe blindly in UFO's, but if you claim that the vids are fake, do actually tell me what makes them fake.

Quote from: matti on Mon 28/07/2008 12:33:48
With the flashlight I referred to "the freakiest of all the UFO/alien etc videos" Mods has ever seen, the
"Most Authentic ghost footage of all time???" how it's called on YouTube.

Ah, yeah, I agree on that one!

Quote from: vict0r on Tue 29/07/2008 09:19:08

Quote from: Nacho on Mon 28/07/2008 13:38:14
We see a light in the sky and we say: "It can be a million of different things. I don' t think it is an alien spacecraft".
"Believers" say: "I give a shit about that other 9,999,999 possibilities. It' s an alien spacecraft". Who is the sectarian here?

you can't give me a good explanation of what, for example, those lights in the sky making formations are.

I can' t give an explanation to which light formations? The ones filmed by the mexican air force? I can. I' ve studied so many SPECTACULAR cases that ended being NOTHING that you must apologize me if I don' t start to run to save your live if you shout "The wolf is coming!" (Nacho hopes that "Peter the sheeperd and the Wolf" parabola is known in the anglosaxon world...)

Quote from: Nacho on Tue 29/07/2008 11:28:22
I' ve studied so many SPECTACULAR cases that ended being NOTHING that you must apologize me if I don' t start to run to save your live if you shout "The wolf is coming!" (Nacho hopes that "Peter the sheeperd and the Wolf" parabola is known in the anglosaxon world...)

Ah, Nacho, how we love your Nacho-isms. This might have read a wee bit better as:

"I've studied so many SPECTACULAR cases that ended up being NOTHING that you must forgive me if I don' t start to run to save your life if you shout "The wolf is coming!" (Nacho hopes that "The boy who cried 'Wolf!'" parable is known in the Anglo-Saxon world.)"

Funnily enough, Marian calls this fable "Peter and the Wolf", too. Perhaps the Spanish generally confuse Prokofiev with Aesop? Oh, and a parabola is a conic section generated by the intersection of a right circular conical surface and a plane parallel to a generating straight line of that surface. A parable is a short story with a moral.

Ahhh, thanks for your explanations, Andrés. :)

Yes, in Spain that tale is called "Pedro y el lobo", and yes "Parábola" has two different meanings in Spain.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par%C3%A1bola

Just adding my 2 cents to the subject.
First, I read the review to the Movie, The X-Files: I Want To Believe (I saw the first movie, I liked it!) and it said there are no alien invaders or evil monsters or even sinister government conspiracies - it just features a guy who plays a defrocked psychic priest accused of child-molesting who is used by Mulder to find a murderer. When I read that, I felt rather down-hearted, what happened to the thrilling paranoid TV show I grew up with? No matter.

On the subject of aliens. I've watched some documentaries on the SPACE Channel (A Science Fiction Station in Canada). There are many theories about aliens and UFOs. They say that the US Government has Top-Secret Military Technology that is way ahead of ours and they've been experimenting on cattle and humans for quite some time. Another, more strange, is that there are actually aliens, but from another dimension, able to appear and disappear in a second. Some pilots have seen strange lights that fly around and then...poof! Gone!

First off, can you please hide whatever spoilers you have about the new Xfiles movie in hide tags.

Secondly, those explanations are nothing. They are just people sitting in a room saying "WHAT IF THIS?!" and then not going any farther. They don't explain anything and they are stupid. I hate to be so blunt but if you ask me what I think of those explanations I say they are totally stupid and any show you are watching that offers those are real conversation points is a worthless pile of crap and is insulting the human race every second it's on television.

Also, I hate that people who believe in vast conspiracies of aliens visiting the planet ask you to just open your mind a little bit and offer countless videos for you to watch but when the best explanation about what happened at Roswell is offered up in a video it gets ignored.

Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

 :o Whoa! :o  Chill man! I didn't mean to offend you! Don't overheat...Drink a cold beverage...

First off...it's not a spoiler about X-Files: I Want To Believe, I haven't even seen the movie, and that VERY brief story line I mentioned, was a VERY brief synopsis of the story...that I read in a Newspaper Review. I wasn't trying to give away the ending. Anyway, I apologize if I said too much about the movie. I'll be more careful when talking about movies on the Forum in the future. Moving on...

The UFO topic...I said the material was from a Science Fiction Station...and I did not say it was from a History or Discovery Channel. I was having some fun with the topic. Didn't mean to hit a nerve.


There's no reason to hate people. You can dislike with what they say or hate what they do, but there is not need to hate people.


And I didn't say it was my opinion. Anyway. I'd better withdraw from this topic. It's rather... sensitive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/skeith2572/iday2.jpg

This is proof that UFO's do exist!!  :)

This is a picture of evenwolf filming the president while a huge alien ship is coming into earth's atmosphere.

edit: I posted this pic years ago in the picture thread. I just happened to remember that i did it and thought it would be funny to add here. GO INDEPENDENCE DAY!!

VGOTheMeekGeekVGV

I glazed my eyes over when I thought you were going to talk about the movie, I apologize if I came off harsh on that matter.

Also, I'm not mad at you and I certainly don't hate you. No worries, I was just reacting strongly to the subject you posted, not you the person who posted.

I didn't say I hated anyone either. That bit wasn't even about your post. So it's all good.

Domino:

Is that the secret shadow government president? Because it sure doesn't look like the president of the US to me! YOU CRACKED THE CASE!

MrColossal:

No problem. Heck, I've got to learn to not to blab, and not take myself too seriously. Heh!

Don't stop having fun!

Have a great summer!  ;)

Domino: I LUV that pic! President Pullman, er, Whitmore is in charge! You didn't have any problems with the Secret Service did you? Heheh. I love that inspirational speech he gives in the UFO movie, Independence Day.

Quote from: VGOTheMeekGeekVGV on Thu 31/07/2008 02:16:13
I love that inspirational speech he gives in the UFO movie, Independence Day.

Inspirational speech?  Excuse me?  I haven't seen Independence Day.  Could you please hide that crap with some hide tags, you're ruining the movie for the rest of us!  ;D hehe  (joking)


Domino.  You're releasing the old footage of Evenwolf and the President.

(http://www.bryvis.com/images/other/agsf/ufo_even.jpg)
This image is the one just before Hancock flew in to be the President's bodyguard.

You know, when I was in Iraq we would see all kinds of lights in the night sky that moved in weird ways and did NOT act like regular aircraft.

This indicates to me that I and my buddies had very active imaginations, we were being visited by aliens, or there is NATO technology that the general public, that includes us grunts, is not privy to.

Since me and my boys are kind of dullards and can't find a way to entertain ourselves that doesn't center around pelting each other with pebbles, I guess that rules out the first. The second is unlikely.

The third though...

Plausible deniability was a popular catch phrase in the Army.

"Roswell, Inconvenient facts and the will to believe", By Karl T. Pflock.

It' s a book by a man who is a die-hard UFO believer (but also a serious investigator, very odd in this "Ufologists world"). He basically says that Roswell is crap... Well, Pflock, says that everything shown as an evidence of alien visits till now is crap.

And he is believes in UFOs... and has been pursuing lights for decades.

Ok, let's try this for the sake of the argument...

If someone tries to prove there are giant flying blue monkeys in the sky, what's the best evidence he can forge? Just theoreticly.... He can photoshop a picture, he can make up a fake witness story so he gets some atention, he can even tape some wings on his cat and shoot it from a great distance with a sellphone at night. Does this prove the existence of giant flying monkeys? Some "Sceptics" would say they need more evidence. True believers will believe in flying monkeys even if there is no proof, so any little bit of evidence would convince them.
No matter how stupid or crazy an idea is someone somewhere would believe in it.
Got my point?

Once a beliver said "You won't believe in Aliens even if you get a photo of them waving its hands out of the saucer and yelling "hey! we' re here, sucker!".

He was right... As seen in youtube there are now amazing CGI animations of UFOs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5jmbSjWkw

The funny thing is that this films are allways one or two steps behind of Hollywood SFX, and arrive just when those animation tools reach to the amateur film makers. ¿Coincidence? Mmmm....

But the "genuine UFO" films DO NOT SHOW an "alien waving it's hand out of the saucer". They show nothing. Only lights in the sky... As said, I don' t think someone would travel for millions of years through the universe to switch the lights on and leave. It' s rediculous... It' s lime me flying for 35 hours to reach Sydney,  buying a coke in the soda machine at the terminal, and then come back with no further visit.

Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 31/07/2008 00:43:36
Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

:D :D :D :D :D

...


:D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: EldKatt on Thu 31/07/2008 11:41:41

Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 31/07/2008 00:43:36
Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

:D :D :D :D :D

...


:D :D :D :D :D

Can you develope your reply?

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 31/07/2008 13:03:11

Quote from: EldKatt on Thu 31/07/2008 11:41:41

Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 31/07/2008 00:43:36
Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

:D :D :D :D :D

...


:D :D :D :D :D

Can you develope your reply?

Is that necessary? :D

Seriously, though, the sentence quoted from MrColossal essentially sums up 1) one of the most healthy attitudes you could possibly have about the world, and 2) one of the most crucial reasons why superstition, conspiracy theories and any other forms of pseudoscience generally fail to yield results or progress: the failure of its proponents to adopt that attitude. Hence quoted and appended with smiles, because it's damn important.

That smiley can makes missunderstandings... It wasn' t clear if you where LAUGHING of Mr. C' s statement because you consider it crap, or if you where SMILING because you agree with it. Thanks, much clearer now.  :)

Ah, good point. And thanks for asking. :)

Then again, the main problem is that someone will present evidence that they fell is legit and someone else can point out how it is not legit or at least extremely suspect but for the believer it just comes down to a matter of he said she said "We could both be right!" scenarios. Or "The proof is there for me." and there's no way to refute that because they don't want scientifically verified proof.

So saying that evidence will convince me is quite a simplification of what I actually need. But still, it's a sound bite!

I think that the line of what a "reliable evidence" is for "sensible people" is quite clear... Eric and me could try to answer that if you really want...

What is sure is that, if people believes according to the "evidences" we have now, their "line" is much closer to the start line that Eric' s and mine. If somebody wants to jump to my jugular, chill, I am just saying that their line is in another place than mine, I don't mean they are insane, stupids, fools or naive.... Well... maybe they are naive, but nothing negative else.

Domino: I love it. Hehehe.  My sister's wedding... and she's even had time to get a divorce since then!
Ryan:   Man, Hancock was an asshole.   He wouldn't let me get 50 feet near the president and all I wanted was an interview!



I think the last several posts refer to what James Randi calls the "unsinkable duck".      The stubbornness that wanting to believe and being open to these pseudosciences means that you are  being more reasonable than people using the scientific method.

Evidence in most pseudosciences comes in the form of a list.    "Well there's an orb of light in this photo...and there's a clicking sound on the tape.... and there's NO other explanation." 

There's plenty of explanations but the desire for their explanation to be true blinds them from the process, so they are in perpetual limbo of arguing that *we* are the closed minded ones.    Might be about UFOs, ghosts, or god himself.    Belief is downright scary.   You might say that believing never hurts.   I'm damn sorry but many of my friends were witnesses (and victims) of this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7529450.stm

That happened in my neighborhood.  That's 3 minutes away from my house... I drive by it everyday and if I wasn't an atheist I'd probably attend that church.

The truth allways reaches the surface, sooner or later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series3/rendlesham_ufos.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series3/rendlesham_ufos.shtml)

Not in the way UFO believers want, though... The most famous UFO case in the British Island was not this:
(http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Bob_Lazar_S4_Disc_Images/S4_Disc.gif)

But this:
(http://classiccars.com/Uploads/Preview/51657.jpg)
A 1979 Plymouth Volare.

Nothing to blame to the witness... They are fuckin similar...  ;D

Quote from: Nacho on Fri 01/08/2008 19:16:31
The most famous UFO case in the British Island was not this:
[picture]
But this:
[picture]
A 1979 Plymouth Volare.
Nothing to blame to the witness... They are fuckin similar...  ;D

Ok, am I completely dense (more than likely) or had someone actually mistaken a car for a 'ufo'?  Or were you making a point I didn't catch?

(Ok: obviously I must have been tired.  I didn't even notice your url tag in your post.. Doh!)

I would be more scared of that UGLY car coming at me than the UFO.

Is it really true that Aliens Anal Probe humans when they get on their ship??

Quote from: Domino on Sat 02/08/2008 00:23:09
Is it really true that Aliens Anal Probe humans when they get on their ship??

Is that a retorical question? How can anyone answer that, since nobody has been abducted?

Quote from: Nacho on Sat 02/08/2008 14:52:39

Quote from: Domino on Sat 02/08/2008 00:23:09
Is it really true that Aliens Anal Probe humans when they get on their ship??

Is that a retorical question? How can anyone answer that, since nobody has been abducted?

Hey, why don't you just let the poor guy fantasize? :P

Hey, watch it there.  ::)

Quote from: Domino on Sat 02/08/2008 18:27:36
Hey, watch it there.  ::)

Sorry, couldn't resist the setup. ;)

It was funny though.  :)

YouTube - David Adair Reveals Light Speed UFO Technology Pt.. 1 (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEPYOad1cnQ")



YouTube - Area 51 : The Frantic Caller (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee3bld4lTG0")

Something told me that Radiowaves was a believer...  ;D

Quote from: radiowaves on Tue 05/08/2008 16:45:06
YouTube - David Adair Reveals Light Speed UFO Technology Pt.. 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEPYOad1cnQ)

What was that guy sedated with?  Elephant tranqs?   That was the most boring, droning thing I have ever watched. His story is intriguing for a firsthand report but where is a video demonstration of the device he built?

As for the 2nd video, I would never present an obvious radio prank as evidence... well actually

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wf5TPVz56A

Did you watch all the Pts of David Adair? David Adair is actually a well known scientist.

If this stuff is boring to you, then there is no wonder you doesn't believe at all. Do you expect new War of the Worlds?

The second video was the famous Art Bell talkshow. Could be fake, yes.

Quote from: radiowaves on Wed 06/08/2008 12:04:06
Did you watch all the Pts of David Aldair? David Aldair is actually a well known scientist.

If this stuff is boring to you, then there is no wonder you doesn't believe at all. Do you expect new War of the Worlds?

The second video was the famous Art Bell talkshow. As you noticed, they were opressed to run a backup system.  A publicity stunt? Maybe, if you can find me an actor who is able to act so real.

I thought both videos were quite awesome, but if David Adair made this engine at age 17, how come he haven't made it again? The second video can be hard to take seriously though, but I must admit that the guy was either a world-class actor or genuinely terrified. 2012 anyone? :P

Quote from: radiowaves on Wed 06/08/2008 12:04:06
Did you watch all the Pts of David Adair? David Adair is actually a well known scientist.

I can't find anything on his credentials (yes, this is an invitation for you or someone else to share your sources), but there are plenty of "well-known scientists" (and even well-educated ones) who are full of shit, so that argument on its own is pretty futile. Just saying.

I haven't heard much about this guy and I really don't know how one should find out more about stuff like that, but here (http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=5414902#ref1287422383)'s some gathered info about him.

As a child David Adair recieved previously unknown mathematics in dreams. He used these to build a rocket aged 11, and after petitioning the government to give him a million dollars he built a nuclear fusion rocket in his father's car garage. If that sounds hard to believe, fair enough, he did have help. From Stephen Hawking (who is also an alien-math dreamer). At 17 this won him a non-existent prize from the airforce. During a test flight of his rocket, it landed in Area 51 (!!) and while he got the guided tour there he saw transparent metal, mind control spaceships and other radical stuff. He was understandbly tired by this experience, so he decided to settle down and earn a living selling books on the UFO fringe circuit, which was cool because now some people on UFO forums have heard of him.

Fair enough, he may not be "well known" or a "scientist" but if you need credentials you can always email Stephen Hawking (could ask him how to build nuclear fusion generator at the same time, if it's not too much trouble).

It appears that this Adair guy really seems to be fake. A compulsive lier perhaps? A trick to make money by selling his books and casually mentioning that he could make another rocket (needs funding $$).

Basically everything the guy says is uncheckable. 0 background.

What?  I thought you were arguing on behalf of the claims he was making.

Quote from: evenwolf on Thu 07/08/2008 04:17:01
What?  I thought you were arguing on behalf of the claims he was making.

It's quite common in the "believers world". They come, arrogantly, claiming that "they know something that the rest of the world doesn't" (Which imply that they are smarter than the rest of the world, of course)

Then, what they believe is debunked by sensible people... They are proven that, they are not only smarter, but also sillier... They they step back and deny what they previously said. A classical movement.

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 07/08/2008 07:05:29
It's quite common in the "believers world". They come, arrogantly, claiming that "they know something that the rest of the world doesn't" (Which imply that they are smarter than the rest of the world, of course)

Then, what they believe is debunked by sensible people... They are proven that, they are not only smarter, but also sillier... They they step back and deny what they previously said. A classical movement.

He even said this to me,  "If this stuff is boring to you, then there is no wonder you doesn't believe at all"   implying that I missed something intelligent in Adair's story.   I'm so confused, but not surprised... I'm glad a believer has come to see a fraud for what he is.

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 07/08/2008 07:05:29
It's quite common in the "believers world". They come, arrogantly, claiming that "they know something that the rest of the world doesn't" (Which imply that they are smarter than the rest of the world, of course)

Then, what they believe is debunked by sensible people... They are proven that, they are not only smarter, but also sillier... They they step back and deny what they previously said. A classical movement.

What?! Get the fuck off your high horse man! You've been a complete cock throughout this whole thread, so please stop. He didn't try to defend himself, but admitted that he hadn't checked up enough on the man's credentials. Not trying to save his ship but admitting that he was wrong. Also, I know you are capable of writing pretty good english, so please do spellcheck your posts as a whole lot of them are more or less illegible. And by the way, a badly written article and a recommendation of a book does not classify as valid sources in my book. The article by Dave Thomas was quite interesting though!

Evenwolf: It did seem like you blew the Adair guy off because he was boring and not because he was a potential fake.

Me? I'm really not a believer but I get involved with these discussions when the "anti-believers" start making silly claims shouting fake at everything they see without proper counter evidence. If someone has a video of an unidentifiable flying light, this is per definition a UFO. I'm not saying it's alien, but hey, most of them don't seem human made so it's natural that people should question it's origin.

Quote from: vict0r on Thu 07/08/2008 07:59:23
shouting fake at everything they see without proper counter evidence

Authenticity needs to be proven, not the other way around.   No one is going to prove aliens don't exist anywhere in the universe, likewise no one will prove there is no God.    It works the other way around and not for absurd reasons so everyone should come to terms with that easily.

That is the core problem, and not with us "anti-believers"... another label.

Quote from: evenwolf on Thu 07/08/2008 08:23:40

Quote from: vict0r on Thu 07/08/2008 07:59:23
shouting fake at everything they see without proper counter evidence

Authenticity needs to be proven, not the other way around.   No one is going to prove aliens don't exist anywhere in the universe, likewise no one will prove there is no God.    It works the other way around and not for absurd reasons so everyone should come to terms with that easily.

That is the core problem, and not with us "anti-believers"... another label.

I were talking about videos, sorry for the diffuse wording. The difference from atheism here is that people actually have videos showing what they mean is UFOs. There probably is a better word/label for it, but that's the best I found for people who really, really don't want to believe. Again, I'm not saying aliens do exist but what makes you so sure that every single video out there is fake?

Quote from: vict0r on Thu 07/08/2008 07:59:23

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 07/08/2008 07:05:29
It's quite common in the "believers world". They come, arrogantly, claiming that "they know something that the rest of the world doesn't" (Which imply that they are smarter than the rest of the world, of course)

Then, what they believe is debunked by sensible people... They are proven that, they are not only smarter, but also sillier... They they step back and deny what they previously said. A classical movement.

What?! Get the fuck off your high horse man! You've been a complete cock throughout this whole thread, so please stop. He didn't try to defend himself, but admitted that he hadn't checked up enough on the man's credentials. Not trying to save his ship but admitting that he was wrong. Also, I know you are capable of writing pretty good english, so please do spellcheck your posts as a whole lot of them are more or less illegible. And by the way, a badly written article and a recommendation of a book does not classify as valid sources in my book. The article by Dave Thomas was quite interesting though!

Evenwolf: It did seem like you blew the Adair guy off because he was boring and not because he was a potential fake.

Me? I'm really not a believer but I get involved with these discussions when the "anti-believers" start making silly claims shouting fake at everything they see without proper counter evidence. If someone has a video of an unidentifiable flying light, this is per definition a UFO. I'm not saying it's alien, but hey, most of them don't seem human made so it's natural that people should question it's origin.

I read my posts again.



I keep what I said.

Erm... Huh? Can you rephrase that?

Yes... and I will extend my reply.

Part 1) I apology for my bad spelling. I am not good at English, but I am a person who believes that my opinion can be interesting for some people, so I make the effort to communicate what I think. That makes people believe that I am good at English, but that' s not true... I am just dare enough to try to speak.

I apology for posting too much with an English level that is clearly below average, with typos, misspelling and grammar mistakes. It embarrases me and makes me feel bad and stupid. I thank everybody who makes the effort to try to understand me.

Part 2) I kept everything what I said in this posts:

Saying "Nobody can tell to you if Aliens anal probe you when they abduct you, since nobody has been abducted by an alien" is not, in my honest opinion, being a cock. Maybe is cruel to read "NOBODY HAS BEEN ABDUCTED" so clearly, without ornaments, but I am sorry... That' s what we have.

If you believe in Roswell, when even Karl Pflock (A die hard UFO believer) says that the case is a joke, you are showing that your will to believe is so big that you are unvalidated as a witness. Saying that is not being a cock.

Saying to me "Your only reply to that is posting a link to a bad written article and a link to a book? That' s not enough" is being a cock. The article is not bad written, at least is not written worse that its "believer" equivalents. If you think it' s bad written maybe a freudian complex of seeing anything skeptic as "bad" is comming to surface. That' s not my fault, and it does not makes me a cock.

Recommending a book was not an argument of mine. What I am saying is that you should read the book to go on with the discussion, which is quite different.

Posting a link to a book implies THAT I HAVE READ that book. And Friedmann' s... And Berglitz... And Randle' s. I have read your "believer crap", why don' t you read my "skeptic crap"? Scared of discovering something you don' t like? Sorry, that' s not my fault. I sum more that 5,000 read pages about that topic, between books, articles and studies in my 10 years of experience as a skeptic investigator, and I think I have enough background to tell that I know something about it. Replying to what I say telling "That article is interesting" or "this youtube video" is like a kid that has just learned to sum arguing with Einstein about physics... Behave as a cock, basically...

Posting a video of a "someone" saying "something" about alien technology and swallowing it with no need of further evidences proves that your will of believing is so big that it invalidates you as a witness or contertulios. Saying that is not, IMHO, being a cock.

Saying that Radiowaves didn' t try to defend David Adair was being a cock. He even claimed that is WONDER that after watching his video we still don' t believe.

So, to summarise. I don't think I have been a cock, I keep what I said, and the way I said it. If what I said made you feel that I was behaving like a cock it' s not my fault. Maybe is deciving that with so little your believes are smashed, but that' s not my fault.

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 07/08/2008 07:05:29

Quote from: evenwolf on Thu 07/08/2008 04:17:01
What?  I thought you were arguing on behalf of the claims he was making.

It's quite common in the "believers world". They come, arrogantly, claiming that "they know something that the rest of the world doesn't" (Which imply that they are smarter than the rest of the world, of course)

Then, what they believe is debunked by sensible people... They are proven that, they are not only smarter, but also sillier... They they step back and deny what they previously said. A classical movement.

I never claimed myself a believer ;) Thats something that you people said.
Actually I am very sceptic, friendly sceptic, I'd say. And I have absolutely no problem taking my claims back. And I didn't say any opinion about these videos, I just simply posted them. I just thought to spark some controversy or something. Its about information, not self promotion.

I also think that you people here need to calm down.

Friend, you must understand that it makes sense that, if in a middle of a UFO thread, you post those kind of videos with no further explanation, we infer you are a believer.

If you are not, I apology, but my sentence about "believers stepping back when debunked" sentence is still valid, even if it can' t be directly applied to your case.  It' s a quite classic movement.

The stepping back part applies to all sides, as long as I am concerned. But why grab on to that aspect at all? Its waste of energy. Searching for direct information is more productive in this matter. You simply take what you have and don't have and compare, some 3'rd party acts, be them from believers or non believers, are not important.
Its funny how most of the threads turn into personal arguments and in the end its all about proving who is smarter, who is right and who is wrong in the sence that the actual topic subject isn't on the front line anymore.

Quote from: radiowaves on Thu 07/08/2008 11:37:27
and in the end its all about proving who is smarter, who is right and who is wrong in the sence that the actual topic subject isn't on the front line anymore.

In this case it' s different... A political argument usually end in a draw, since nobody can prove the other part opinion' s is worse than yours... In this case, "believers" must recognise that they do not have any evidence at all to support what they say.

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 07/08/2008 12:02:18

Quote from: radiowaves on Thu 07/08/2008 11:37:27
and in the end its all about proving who is smarter, who is right and who is wrong in the sence that the actual topic subject isn't on the front line anymore.

In this case it' s different... A political argument usually end in a draw, since nobody can prove the other part opinion' s is worse than yours... In this case, "believers" must recognise that they do not have any evidence at all to support what they say.

But why? I'm not going to rip up everything wrong about your last HUEG post, but are you really that arrogant that you think you are 100% correct? Again, I'm not "a believer", but man... That's just stupid.

Sorry for my HUEG post and my misspellings.

One question: Why my "That are not aliens, I am correct" is "more arrogant" than the "That are aliens spacecrafts, I am correct" than the believers claim? Again, if you have a complex of seeing anything coming from the skeptic world as worse than its believer equivalent it' s not my fault.

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 07/08/2008 12:59:19
One question: Why my "That are not aliens, I am correct" is "more arrogant" than the "That are aliens spacecrafts, I am correct" than the believers claim?

Does it really matter?

Of course it does. If somebody tells me that my arguments are arrogant and that I am stupid, I want to know if their arguments are more solids than mine. Otherwise, his arguments would be, at least, as "arrogant and stupids" as mine are.

(The truth is that their armuments are LESS solid than mine, ergo their arguments are the stupid and arrogant ones)

When he crawls back and says that "he is not even a beliver", when it' s obvious he is, he is not only being stupid and arrogant, but also a coward without balls.

Ah, I'll stop this as the personal attacks has started flying.

Nacho: Chill man :) Nothing matters!

No probs... It' s been the most interesting thing that happened to me in this forums for months.   :D

Wait. This is when the personal attacks started flying? The threshold seems arbitrary to me, sir.

Just so you know, there's a lot of "hype" at the moment about first contact occuring next Tuesday (14th Oct). Some are saying a gigantic craft & will hover over Africa for 3 days to give undeniable proof of UFOs and aliens! Well, who knows. I don't, but I'm cashing in on the prospect...

I've made a couple of video blogs & will have a few more up until Oct 14th (just in case!) so if you want to see some light hearted nonsense about UFOs, check my YouTube page listed below. Oh, and a word of warning - if you're a sceptic, that's fine - but I'm not anymore, so these videos might be disturbing to people who strictly believe there is no such thing!!!

Also, there is some stuff going on in Google Earth that is puzzling people. Watch blog 2, and if any of you guys have an answer or a phone number for Google Earth, let me know! I've tried calling them, but no luck yet, hehehe.

http://www.youtube.com/markymint

Very cool. Perhaps those spacecrafts will assassine Mugabe and bring rain into the Sahara.  :D

Or they'll just take away their pyramids.  :'(

Nice videos mark, I like the editing and how you reacted to "other strange things on google earth"

I also loved loved loved how you handled that UFO video in your first episode, pointing out that the camera person was obviously following the aircraft and not the other object which would be of more interest. That was a great bit of debunking.

However, I'm curious who this Blossom Goodchild woman is? Where does she get her information?

Heh, I like your show m0ds, but it strikes me as almost a parody the way you present it.  Since you seem to truly believe (or want to believe) in this stuff, it just seemed a bit odd to me.  It was entertaining, anyway!

Really good stuff!

I'm in almost complete and total opposition to your beliefs, but I still find the subject [in a fiction kind of way] extremely entertaining!!  I liked the over-all format of the show!  Was only able to watch the one (I'm at the office now) but will definitely watch more later!

Cheers!

Thanks! I believe but that doesn't mean I'm not still sceptical about a lot of things :) Episode 3 very soon, and yep it's just for fun. Anyway I'm glad you guys enjoyed the blog :) As for Blossom Goodchild, Eric, I'm not entirely sure. She's one of these people who "channel" things. Not sure how much to believe it, seriously, but with pyschics and their apparent truth it doesn't necessarily seem like such a long shot. Apparently a lot of other "channellers", whatever they're really called, have said the same thing. Several early predictions state that by the end of 2008 we will know of other beings, etc. Who knows! Thanks for the support :)

What apparent truth about psychics?  That they're hucksters that get paid to lie to bereaved people?  I'm not sure what  truth you're referring to, since none of them have ever produced solid proof of their abilities even when offered a million dollars to do so (http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html).k

Also, this is great -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo8CP9Hhb58

Mods I have a question, if 2008 comes and goes and the predictions are found to be wrong and the world is exactly as it was before. What does that do to your opinion of Blossom Goodchild? I watched her video where she explains her prediction and she said many times with conviction that it will happen and and it is definately going to happen and she's spoke with aliens in her mind and if it doesn't the only thing left to do is to back pedal and make up an excuse why it didn't happen. My guess is she will say there wasn't enough love in the world even though she said there was enough and that's why they found us.

The reason I ask is that this thread is about UFO theories and now psychic phenomena is being brought in. A UFO has a grounding in science where psychic ability has pretty much been debunked soundly for years and years and years. So if all these predictions of UFOs this year turn out false, will you be putting any stock into future predictions?

The problem with claims that deal with the supernatural is that they are seldom falsifiable. If the predicted event or result defaults, there will always be an excuse or explanation involving even more intricate supernatural claims.

Reporter: Actually, this is a setup. The horse you just communicated telepathically with hates bareback riding...
Horse whisperer: Hm? Oh wait, he's telling me something more...Ah, he was just kidding! Quite a prankster, old Acorn!
Reporter: ...and his real name is Chess.

Quote from: Andail on Sat 11/10/2008 16:56:59
Reporter: ...and his real name is Chess.

Horse Whisperer: That's his SLAVE NAME!

Clearly.  No horse would choose 'chess' as a name since they don't even know what it means, but they've surely seen acorns before!

I dare you to defy horse-logic.

Rats!
Andail vs Horse-whisperers: 0-1

what I said 10000 posts before is that WE can't go to other planets that would have a MORE intelligent life form than us or an equal. However they might be able to come.

Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 12/10/2008 12:30:30
what I said 10000 posts before is that WE can't go to other planets that would have a MORE intelligent life form than us or an equal. However they might be able to come.

How?

If they can come, they will probably be more highly evolved in certain matters than we are. So that's why we're sending signals across the universe, we're not sending them to be recieved by worms or whatever, but by einsteins.

Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 12/10/2008 12:39:44
If they can come, they will probably be more highly evolved in certain matters than we are. So that's why we're sending signals across the universe, we're not sending them to be recieved by worms or whatever, but by einsteins.

You say "They might come, because they are more evolved", and after that you say "We are sending messages to be understood by intelligent civilizations".

I will start from the latest statement: I don' t really know what have to see that we are sending messages to the universe with "Intelligent civilizations are visiting us". "We send messages" is not equal to "we have been visited".

Second, let' s go with the "evolution thing". Basically, it' s impossible that "those civilizations" have come to visit us "in the old fashioned way" (which is, make a spaceship, and jump from a star system in a zillion years travel to see if they are inhabitated) because there is no machine that can last enough to make those travels. Termodynamics and chaos theory tell us that a ship like those will break before succeding in a trip like that.

There is also the "age" of the travellers issue. The only possibilities to do trips like those are:

A) Form a space colony that can travel for zillions of years.
B) Cryogenics

I will not mention the technical problems of possibility A (Again, Chaos theory tells us that a colony won' t survive enough by technologycal of biological problems, the size of the ship should be huge, etc...), but I will launch a question... Why? Would you wake up one day, pick up your family and "join the government call to imbark in a suicide mission that can last millions of years with the only reward that your descendants MIGHT meet another civilization in the future"? Me neither. Aliens neither.

B: Again lots of tecnological problems... the machine that should keep that EBEs (Extra Terrestial Biological Entities) alive should have no fails in zillion of years, no interruption of power supply. But once again we must look the psicologycal aspect... Why? Why sending (An risking) a living being when you can send probes? If they send probes we have the "durability" problem again... But there are more.

Another possibility: Sending the "probe" directly to the earth. That would save million of years in travels (The distance is still huge... Apparently the closest system which might have an intelligent civilization is like 40 lightyears away, which means that the Voyager (Or the remains of it) would arrive there in 766558 years) but... How to do it? The first emission from Earth that can be "heard" in outer space was send 60 years ago, which means that they won't "hear us" till 766498 years. How are they going to send a spaceship to here if they won' t know where we are till 766498 years???

Okay... So, let' s avoid that "minor" problems... let' s think that the aliens know we are here, let' s forget that they are too far to make the trip without the spaceship to get broken, let' s forget that they are too far to survive to the trip to the Earth without dying... How can they do the trip? With faster speeds?

Nothing "material" can't  go faster than light. Only the Hawkings radiation, which is almost infinitelly small and is in a singularity can go faster and escape from black holes...

Ok... let' s go to point A (A black hole), to B (another black hole), linking them using a worm hole...

That might imply that if aliens visit us they must be able to de-materialise materia, to put it in black hole A, and have the techonlogy to control the singularities of that black hole so perfectly that it will re-mount the materia in order in black hole B... Again, we must assume that those aliens have a black hole in the vicinity, but... what about us? Do we have a black hole here, in the nearby? No... Using black holes to come to the earth would put you EVEN longer than coming through the stars.

Ok... But alies DO HAVE gravitational technology. Then can FORM a black hole wherever they want, and put the destinational black hole wherever they want, as well... We are asuming that aliens do have enough tecnology to form an original black hole A, to enter there and de-materialise, to create a destiny black hole B, and materialise there...

And those aliens, with those amazing technologies are the same ones that crash in Roswell because they are hit by a ray? Are those alies, with that amazing technology the same ones that have proven to be so stupid that they can't observe us without being seen/filmed/captured? Wow.

So... as we can seen, nothing, NOTHING, from the logical human point of view tell us they can come, and if they can come, logic implies we are not able to see them. That implies.

A) They are not here, they don't have enough tecnology, so, UFOs are not Aliens.
B) They are here, because they have the tecnology... But if they have the technology to do the trip, they must also have the technology for not being observed, so UFOs are not aliens again...

So, either if aliens are here or not, we can't have observed them.

So... Can aliens be here? Of course... But we can' t have evidences of that. If you say "Aliens might be here" I reply to you "Yes... and dragons, and fairies, and Angels..." Are you up to believe in dragons? No? Why are you up to believe in Aliens?

Believing without support of evidences is, (and sorry, I wanted to keep diplomat here, but I can't express it better) stupid. That attitude is the one that made the ancient human say "Hey, I hear a thunder... that must be a God' s fart" (which has been proven to be wrong). That made human being believe in fairies, witches, demons and giant sea snakes (which has been proven to be wrong). That attitude is the one that makes that nowaday in the XXIth century kids are still being told that "languajes were made because God was unhappy about how good Babel Tower works were going", or "God wake up one day, realised he was annoyed with his children, and said "Hey, what the fuck??? I will kill them all with a DeLuge" (Things that have been proved to be wrong).

When a question is raised, if you come to reply it with the fastest answer that comes to your mind, you are being shelfish and pretentious. It is nice to say "I don't know". You see a light in the sky? Yes? Me too. Do you know what it is? No? Me neither. Why do you say it' s a spacecraft driven by an alien being? You don' t know what it is... Full stop.

Skeptics are told to be "pretentious" because "they tell people what to believe". Sorry... When we see a light we say "I don' t know what it is, it might be a million things. I don' t think it' s an alien spacecraft, the matematical probabilities are tiny" When a "believer" see a light, passes of 999,999 plausible possibilities and claims "It' s an alien"

Who is being pretentious here?

Hi Nacho, nice reply! I'm sure someone will give you a nice detailed reply, but I'm just going to say something on your last paragraph.

QuoteSkeptics are told to be "pretentious" because "they tell people what to believe". Sorry... When we see a light we say "I don' t know what it is, it might be a million things. I don' t think it' s an alien spacecraft, the matematical probabilities are tiny" When a "believer" see a light, passes of 999,999 plausible possibilities and claims "It' s an alien"

If you saw a three-headed monkey but nobody else had, you would be certain in your mind that there is then some truth in them existing, and would hope that everyone else would accept your claim. I see myself and other "believers" being the same. We've seen something that doesn't fit the bill. I'd say that many of those UFO believers who have seen something can compare it to something on that kind of "three headed monkey" scale. Not just lights in the sky, but lights that can pull lots of G's in different directions at very high speeds, triangular shaped glowing objects & spinning objects etc... I think really you should be questioning more what kind of technology this is that people are seeing rather than whether the people themselves seeing these things are making something of nothing. I believe simply because there's something we're not being told about, possibly hidden from - and you'd think if these things were high brow military secrets, the last thing we'd have is a thousand videos of them. Still, it's better just to judge for yourself.

I also reckon it wouldn't be that unlikely for another life bearing planet to be 200 years ahead of us in terms of technology, and 200 years from now I'm sure we'll have a fairly decent spaceship fleet that could at least reach the edge of our solar system :) Okay, make that 500. So I'm sure someone/thing on another planet could by achieving it too. Still. Oh yes there's also the fact that we are at quite an early point in the history of our Universe, so there's a chance everything else is lagging behind us - but indeed as we cross dimensions ourselves soon, the Universe our alien friends are visiting from could, for all we know, be much much older than our own. All these possibilitys seem crazy but watch enough DiscoveryScience channel and you'll get a grasp of how strange the universe is :) Back to earth, I think modern science, this year especially, has taught us - or at least reminded us, to open up to the fact there is plenty more than just "us" out there. Ice on Mars, 200 UFO reports in one night, the LHC etc. It is inevitable that Earth WILL be visited at some point, and because of the speed in which technology, our own conciousness & the stability of our world advances, there's a high chance it'll happen in our lifetimes. Whether it's on Tuesday who knows. Maybe Wednesday?

Personally, I'd rather we were visited by aliens and taught some things about space & time than delve into it ourselves with the LHC. I'd prefer to know they were there to help stop any massive meteor disasters and stuff than rely on our own governments to handle the situation. So that leads me to a question.

How do you (everyone, and Nacho ;)) envisage life, say, IN the 21st century, with the knowledge of aliens existence. Say the FoL (Federation of Light) HAD showed up in big UFOs. They didn't necessarily stay, but made it clear their intentions were friendly. How do you think this would affect your day to day life from then on, if at all? How would it affect your way of thinking, your view of life? I'd just like to know, would it be positive, negative or neutral?

Finally, thanks for the comments Eric - I understand that psychic stuff can - on a lot of occasions - be fake. As I said though I don't really know what to make of it. I don't know what to make of people who channel stuff either. But some of it does still seem like a mystery to me. I don't know if you get any decent shows like Star Psychic of Psychic Investigators, but they're good to watch. The mediums themselves seem pretty normal, and you can see the people are genuinly touched by what they're being said "about" them. Still, I've never met one. It's on my list of things to do, and from that, I guess I'll be able to make a real choice as to whether I believe them or not. Could be balls, indeed :)

As for Blossom. Well, it will be a shame if she isn't right. She seems like a happy, normal person. At the end of the day I wouldn't class it a problem either. If nothing else she's hammered home the notion that it will happen. And that is the part I believe. October 14th? It wouldn't surprise me if nothing at all happened. I would still get a feeling of being suckered into something...but I know she's quite genuine about it all, she's not trying to make a buck from it, she wasn't even expecting it to get as "big" as it has. Anyway, whoooo knows! I'll still keep a look out for UFOs beyond this if it doesn't happen :P

One video to check out is this recording of an interupted broadcast in my region from 1977. As far as I know it's the only occurence of it's kind globally. It does sound odd, fake pretty much. But the message within is actually pretty sensible. There is no particular preach within either. See what you think :) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_Th3yLw2s

They never tracked this guy down either, m0ds.

Max Headroom hacks the tv!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pj1mUk04_ho

Aliens visiting Earth on a daily basis, no.  Aliens on a different world, yes.
I believe there are life forms on other planets, but I'm not a UFO believer, but I'll still give this a go.

Quote from: Nacho on Sun 12/10/2008 14:17:14
A) Form a space colony that can travel for zillions of years.
B) Cryogenics

Two very primitive technological methods you have stated.
If these are the only two methods you, or humans can think of, it clearly shows that we are WAY too primitive to even attempt to tackle the insurmountable odds of interstellar travel.

Also instead of cryogenics, you ever thought of some type of dematerialized molecular stasis?  Where your body would dematerialize into molecular form to be stored until time to materialize again?  Of course this is highly science fiction, but it's probably not impossible.

QuoteWould you wake up one day, pick up your family and "join the government call to imbark in a suicide mission that can last millions of years with the only reward that your descendants MIGHT meet another civilization in the future"?

First off, you're telling me JUST to be in space you wouldn't get on board the 'USS ColonyShip'.  I would.  I would drop my life here on Earth to be a part of something that great.  Plus I have the finest human genes ever -- I'm made for breeding aboard colony ships ;) (joke).
Second, they wouldn't take 'families' to be a part of something that long term.  Too many possibilities of inbreeding and later down the road/milky-way, the descendants would have too many arms to be considered human anymore.
They'd take young people in their twenties.  People with a good family health history, you wouldn't want Sam who's Daddy, Grand-Daddy, Great-Grand-Daddy, and so on, all suffered from heart attacks.

QuoteIf they send probes we have the "durability" problem again... But there are more.

I'm not a scientist, but other than tiny space debris and asteroids--what is going to degrade the probe?  It's in a cold vacuum of space.  With no moving parts, just floating.  Other than human error, I don't know.

QuoteApparently the closest system [...] is like 40 lightyears away, which means that the Voyager (Or the remains of it) would arrive there in 766558 years) The first emission from Earth [...] was sent 60 years ago, which means that they won't "hear us" till 766498 years.

I don't get it.  I don't know anything about this Voyager probe or whatever it is.  But they didn't launch it at the speed of radio signals which travel at speeds, give or take 299,792,458 metres per second in space.
Your math is 'slightly' flawed here.  We're not throwing stones at the nearest system, they are sending radio waves.

QuoteWhen a question is raised, if you come to reply it with the fastest answer that comes to your mind, you are being shelfish and pretentious. It is nice to say "I don't know".

This is human nature.  Every culture has their own religion just to explain the unknown.

The problem, Mark, is that I have never seen something that looks "that weird" in the sky for me to assumed that it' s an alien spacecraft... But that's just PART of the problem. The biggest problem is that I' ve seen images (video footages, photos..) that people claims, swears, shouts (!!!) to be clearer as water to be an alien spacecraft.

And that images told nothing to me.

So... If I see as "nothing" something they claimed it's "something" by them, I can't do nothing but assume that "everything" claimed as "alien" is just another missinterpration of something "normal".

Imagine this: Someone comes to me, and says: "I' ve seen Nessie, but I haven't been able to take a picture...  :-\" What would you think of him? Well... You could trust in his word. Maybe he/she has seen it... I have nothing not to trust on him. It' s all about credibitily. Now imagine someone comes and says "I' ve seen Nessie,and I have a picture!!!" and this picture showns nothing but a floating log. What would you think of his/hers credibility?

Same with aliens... I' ve seen zillion of photos... I' ve investigated a lot. Nothing. I have been promised I was going to be given photos, videos, materials... All of them proving that those "impossible G' s flights", those lights, those "clear as water" sightings were true. I am still here, sitting, and waiting. And nothing.

"Alien" footage allways comes a step behind science fiction, not the opposite. Lovel talks about martians? Ok... a joker reporter comes with a joke story about an Alien crashing in Aurora, Texas. Flash Gordon comics have spacecrafts? Here comes Arnold with his "sighting story" (and suddenly, thousands of sightings start to spread out all around the country, disc shape, no problem Arnold saw boomerang like saucers, everyone is seeing "discs", because a reporter pissed it off when typing the news...) Buck Rogers comes with tales about abductions? Here comes the Hills, talking about abductions.

And no... We won't "be able to do that spaceships in 200 years". Scientists are quite sure that we won't ever do that.

Scientists not only doubt that we will do it... but also scientists doubt if the first steps into quantum mecanics can be done. I don't know if you undestood my post, but using worm holes as a secure way of transport looks quite complicate. We should de-built every Mod' s atom, to put them in a black hole, and build them in the same exact order in another black hole. And just a very few of particles of a black hole became Hawking radiation (which means that they can go fastest than light and, therefore, escape of the hole) Now imagine ALL M0D'S atoms to do so... In a micro-small enviroment. To put you an example, we are more far away that controlling a quantum foam that flies are to build a rocket able to go to the moon. It is highly unlikely that any civilization will do that. Your basic premise is that earth will be visited. You are wrong. And, as said, if finally aliens do that, if they are so intelligent to make our technology look so ridiculous as a fly seems to us, do you really think they are so stupid to be seen/filmed/photographed? I don' t think so.

The only possibility is (typical "believer argument") is to say "Well... they are aliens... their logic might be different... They might want to visit us, but never had the intention to hide, or mabe they want to show they are here, but "slowly"..." (A way to "show" that we, as humans, should have never chose)

Ok... and I reply: If we jump over the logic... Why stopping there? Why not assuming there are dragons (maybe there actually are dragons... maybe they are invisible... or maybe they can hide very well...)? Why not assuming that there are fairies, and elves, and trolls? If we must apply something out of logic to invent a science we do not know, if we must create an illogical psicology for aliens to make them act in the illogical way "they act"... why not applying that lack of logic to everything?

I would say why: Because then we should reach to absurdity. Aliens, for now, and according to what we know, are as absurd as all those mytical creatures... It' s just that they are fashioned and we can't see how absured they are, because we have the will to believe in them, and the will to believe in dragons, fairies, elves and trolls is extinguised, nowadays.

So, again... Show me evidences. Saying "200 sightings in a month" doesn't work, for a simply reason... There have been more than 200 sightings of something that has proven not to exist in the past (The Kraken, Nessie, Witches, fairies, demons, etc...)

EDIT: Ryan, why are my maths flawed? Voyager would last 766558 years to make 40 lightyears. Why did I use Voyager? Not because it's mission is to reach to other civilizations, as you think I mean, but because it' s the fastest vehicle created by man.

QuoteApparently the closest system which might have an intelligent civilization is like 40 lightyears away, which means that the Voyager (Or the remains of it) would arrive there in 766558 years) but... How to do it? The first emission from Earth that can be "heard" in outer space was send 60 years ago, which means that they won't "hear us" till 766498 years.

Quotewhy are my maths flawed?

I'm not arguing the speed and time it will take this Voyager vessel to reach the 40 lightyear distance--because honestly I know nothing of Voyager or the speed it is traveling.
BUT:
You said the probe will reach them in 766558 years.
AND
You said the first emission from Earth was sent 60 years ago and will reach the 40 lightyear distance in 766498 years.

Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, it would take roughly 40 years to reach the 40 lightyear distance.  Not 766498 years.

You're calculating the speed of Voyager to be the same as the speed of radio waves.

No, no... Missunderstood.  Maybe I am not explaining it propperly. I am saying that radiowaves from "here" to "there" would arrive in 40 years. Since those radiowaves were emmited 60 years ago, their "trip that will end visiting us" started 20 years ago (Assuming they are 40 lightyears away, they "heard" us, and they had a spaceship preppaired before reciving the transmission, which is assuming a lot...)

Since in the first part of my post I was assuming that they were not able to travel lightspeed, then is when I said that they will probably arrive here in 766498 years.

Alright.  I understand you now.

I was just researching some pretty cool stuff to look at your calculations.

---

The fastest man made object was the Halios 1 & 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_probe) probes that were launched towards the Sun.  Traveling at speeds of 252,792 km/h.

A light year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_years) is 9,460,730,472,580.8 km in distance.

Alpha Centauri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Centauri) is the closest star system to our own solar system, at 4.37 light years away.

---

Distance from our solar system to Alpha Centauri in km's is:
41,343,392,165,178 km

Assuming humans could survive on a vessel traveling at speeds equal to the Helios probes, which were:
252,792 km/h

It would take:
18,669.7 years to reach Alpha Centauri.

Now that's a really long time.

40 light years would take 170,890.2 years to travel (at the same speed as the Helios probes).

We definitely need faster ships.

EDIT:
And apparently the Voyager 1 & 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_probe) probes had Plutonium-238 aboard to power the systems.  Which decays with a half-life of 87.74 years.  I don't even Want to do the math on how many Kilo's of Plutonium-238 would be needed to power even something as small as the Voyager probes to allow it to make the distance to Alpha Centauri.
So I guess there would definitely be decay on a vessel, even though it's in the vacuum of space.

Hey, thanks for the info about the Helios probes... I allways thought Voyager was the fastest object created by man, and it' s a data that is commonly repeated in the amateur scientific circles... I will update my data, now!  :D

Anyway, which such speeds, it' s better, IMO, to talk in Kms (Of miles, if you use to use miles) per second. Helios are like 70 kms/s while Voyager is 30 Kms/s.

Some very interesting stuff on the "official" research into UFOs can be found here:

http://io9.com/5063000/declassified-government-documents-reveal-the-truth-about-ufos

Thrilling.

Oh yea, it's October 14th at 11:30 Easter Standard, I didn't hear anything about UFOs. No message from Goodchild either.

Quote from: MrColossal on Wed 15/10/2008 04:28:41
Oh yea, it's October 14th at 11:30 Easter Standard, I didn't hear anything about UFOs.

I've seen nothing but tanks and jets speed through and over my town.  It's like world war 3!!
I hear bombing in the distance and Sister Susie isn't doing well.  We can't get her out of the basement.

Damn you aliens!




If only it were true.  I'd love to fly a fighter jet.  I've got as much airplane experience as the crop duster pilot in Independence Day. :P

But wasn't Randy Quaid a burnt out vietnam vet in that movie?


Anyway, I'm not surprised that today is just another day in mankind's existence.  Are you?

Aye, the predictions didn't ring true...but it was a fun ride none the less :) It's a shame to see how instable some YouTubers can be, and spend their time blasting innacurate predictions as if they should never have existed. But doesn't that kind of imply these folks were waiting too? Surely they were, if they're allowing themselves to be dissapointed & angry at a false prediction.

Anyhoo, whatever! I gave it credence simply because of all the UFO activity I've seen this year on home soil, but I doubt I'll jump to such a claim in the future. I'm still excited to see what 2009 brings regarding UFOs, and there's plenty of time to get wrapped up in the 2012 debate :)

Peace!

That's the key, Mark... Aliens will go on thrilling you in 2009... and 2010, and 11, and 12... Because "THE PROOF!!!" will never arrive.

The proof has been out there since the dawn of man, dude  :=

It's the powers that be that decide to make a mystery of it, nobody else.

No... It's the mistery sellers who decide it's a "mistery".

If you are good at investigating, you' ll be able to find those days interviews, witnesses' words, telegrams and radio reports about what happened in Roswell, 1947. I am not talking about the "hundreds of witnesses" which appeared in the early 80ies, making echo about the wives' tales, but about those days "real" witnesses (I prevent you... Only 6 people saw the "disc"... Blazell, his daughter and son, Haut for sure, and then I think they were Sheriff Wilcox and a somebody else...)

You' ll see lots of "Balsa wood, something like rubber, paper foil, aluminium, something like a weather balloon, something like our battered radar targets and purple markings".

If that, for you, is a spaceship which has crossed the galaxy, congratulations.

Nacho, you're being stupid again and reffering back to Roswell. Fuck Roswell, I don't give a flying fuck about it! It's what's happening NOW in the 21st century that takes my interest, not something way back when.

Okay, so I guess you're still looking for evidence. Well, this has been considered "100% genuine" and "the best UFO footage ever captured", it shows a hovering object over Turkey, and in the high quality version, you can even see "beings" inside. It was captured by one man, but several other witnesses from the same area took pics/footage.

So please Nacho, before you revert to mentioning an event which is completely unrelated to what I'm currently talking about, can you please explain what it is you see in this video :)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iL_4Tnqe2XI

You may also be aware that the MOD released a bundle more files that were deemed top secret a decade or two ago in the last few days. Stop blinding yourself, PLEASE!!! There is blatently stuff out there, or stuff going on, that we are either ill-informed of or are simply obvlivious too.

My final word is that of shame. Unfortunately Nacho, I consider you to be one of my close friends here, but unlike any of my other close friends you won't listen to what I'm saying with a slightest bit of consideration for what it is I've encountered and hundreds of thousands of others have too. I've told several random people who I barely know, plus very close friends, and they all show a particular interest. However, you decide it's not worth it, and just try and debuke it. So rather than your opinions of UFO's I'd rather you actually took who it was saying it to you into consideration.

Peace

PS, dont miss this evidence shot yesterday in Holland! This is simply amazing! Someone smoked a very big bifta!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hwXKlgLXXWo

Quote from: Mods on Wed 22/10/2008 17:35:39
So please Nacho, before you revert to mentioning an event which is completely unrelated to what I'm currently talking about, can you please explain what it is you see in this video :)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iL_4Tnqe2XI

Er... Mods, could YOU perhaps explain what you see there? I see a blurry shape, perhaps a dish, somehow moved with a wire through the kitchen...

A childrens joke..

Yeah I wouldn't mind you also explaining to me what the hell those videos are supposed to be.
Don't tell me you search youtube for 'UFO' videos on a daily basis coming across videos like these, and actually believe them.
Give me the actual article on 'who' these witnesses are, and why they are claiming this blur is a UFO (being aliens or military air craft, I do not care).
I've looked at each and every video you have shown us here in this forum and I haven't for a second believed in any one of them.  And I'm definitely not going to believe because you show us videos on youtube.
Don't mean to come off as an ass, but you haven't shown us anything backing any of it up.

Mark, I love you and I allways will, but I see nothing there. :)  ;)

It's simple, you see something in the sky (in the second video especially) that cannot be identified. I don't know what it is, but I know it's not one of the usual suggestions. It's not an aeroplane, it's not a weather balloon nor is it balsa wood & paper mache. It's a cause for asking questions. I can't tell you what it is because I don't know, but my point was that you should be able to look at them and not jump to a conclusion so easily ie "its a balloon!". Anyway, I'll be quiet now.

Oh, and yes, I do check YouTube almost daily for UFO videos, duh! :P These objects are real, no matter what they are they exist & are still unexplained by the highest authorities. There aren't many mysteries left on this planet, but this is definitely a fascinating & contemporary one. And when you've seen things yourself it only makes it better. And the funny thing is, through the turbulent times I've had this shitty year, this stuff has kept me going with a positive attitude (ish!)

I don't like all the preachy shit that goes behind it, but seriously, just keep an eye on the sky. And when these things are revealed, which I think is still highly likely over the next 50 years, you too can enjoy the marvel of the situation whether you believe it or not! TO be fair, if more and more GOVERNMENTSor their related bodies are coming clean about UFO's, does that not suggest there really IS something going on? UK is in a "come clean" phase, which is great. Naturally the last government to ever come clean on it will be the USA, and therefore it's highly likely they're dealing with it all in a way we're shielded from & they could be partly to blame. Ever hear of the "Aurora" project?

Anyway, enough :P

Preciselly... You can' t tell what it is... Or how big it is! The Turkey one might be a model, or a photo. It' s easy, you put a poster in the wall, you move 20 steps away, you zoom on it, and start filming shaking your hand, and putting a humidifyer (sp?) in front to give the spectator the impression that it is zillion miles away, that the "steamy feeling" is given by lots of layes of the atmosphera, and not by a close object. If you want to elaborate, you can put lights on it, and light them in intervals, or add reflexions with some easy F/Xs. I am not going to discuss about the Holland UFO, I see nothing, you could do that filming the mirrored image of a candle in a window.

What pisses me off is that I know how to do these effects. Some of them are rediculous, like filming an effervescent pill bubbling in a glass of water, and they are very effective. If I see those effects, and I see the guy telling me that he is the one who filmed it, and that it was in the sky I get very annoyed, because in that case that guy should be a "mistery seller", a person who make hoaxes to hint good people. Many times, the "witnesses" are the victims of those people (if they are not victims by a direct hoax, they deffinitelly are by the "atmosphere of credulity" these guys do). I will never get annoyed by people of goodwill. An skeptic will never go against the "people". Actually, we tend to solidarize with them... If we act, it's for them.

So, we agree to disagree with you about the topic, Mark :) But be sure that, wherever I had some problems with members about politics, or boobed avatars (problems successfully solved in person, thanks... God?) I don' t feel like I am losing an apex off friendship or respect to you for this. :)

Peace!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w)

Yeah I was pretty much just saying, I couldn't trust anyone on youtube.  ESPECIALLY someone with an alien avatar trying to get famous for showing a--more than likely--hoax (as most of the videos you show do have).

Mods I love your enthusiasm on the subject!

Just want to reiterate that I believe in UFOs.  I've seen a few myself.  I don't think they're aliens (from a planet other than earth) but they are unidentified flying/floating objects for sure!

Do I want them to be aliens?  Hell yeah!  I just think they aren't. :)  I, for one, would like to find out exactly what they are!

I've seen plenty of things in the day (sometimes night) sky that almost made me stop in my tracks (which usually was me driving on the road.. so i tried to avoid doing that lol).  But usually no longer than the object took to peak my curiosity, I realize it's only a plane far off in the distance and the sun just happened to be in the right spot to reflect directly off the hull/wings into my direction for a minute or two.  If I hadn't seen the truth, I would probably still think about what the heck that vehicle in the air was.
I would also love to believe there are secret government vehicles that can maneuver at speeds in which you see in those videos.. but honestly, you can only keep something like that under wraps for only so long.

Very out of date thread, but an entirely new UFO watch episode, featuring alcohol. Adam Hay would not be proud.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9u8m4Ktd2-Q&feature=channel_page

Keep up to date with the fact you're all going to die.

Episode 5 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2paILDklEkI

Mature language ahoy!!

You smoke too much, m0ds!  Interesting episode, though I think you should work more skits into it (like someone in an alien mask taunting you, etc). 

Thanks Progz! If I can reach the end of "season 1" & it's still successful, then s2 will see a significant boost in the way the show is presented, with skits and real interviews :)

One more cup of the same we had during 60 years, I fear... Lights in the sky. (Let' s remember that a source of light for a spaceship designed for intergallactic trips is completelly incongruent)

So... Where is the UFO??? Where is the alien body, the extraterrestial materials? Where are the (good) evidences? C'mon, mistery sellers have been 60 years saying "It' s here... SOON we will have the EVIDENCE!!!" for decades; Still nothing...

This is a big "Peter and the wolf" story, but some people belive the lie for more time than others, apparently.

The evidence is everywhere, it's not my fault you're afraid to believe it dude :P

What man-made object spooges stuff all over Long Beach CA and then shoots off at great speed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFTpAIwAWs

You have to remember that whenever a UFO crashes, the military are on the scene in a matter of minutes. That's why there are no "hard evidences", even the smaller crashes & seemingly natural incidents will still be blurred out from public view, because we haven't yet had total disclosure -- but it is coming, whether you like it or not.

It goes beyond just looking at UFOs though, think about all the great scientists like Einstein who said we will need a radically new way of thinking if we're ever going to succeed on this planet, that sort of thing. And we as people do need a radical new way of thinking, and one of the only things left really that can effect this is knowing of alien life. The fact about the last 60 years Nacho, is that in the last five, more and more average, normal people are putting on the pressure - before that everyone would keep quiet, and be laughed down, but luckily, more people are happy to stand up for their rights as beings & demanding info on these things, incidents, events etc that occur. Newspapers & media are finally asking questions & in turn governments are starting to give answers. I feel we've talked about this before.

Still, it's quite alright for you to be the Scully cos I'm quite happy being Mulder ;)

This might sound selfish but why is it important if aliens exist? Clearly a species that travels across the solar systems will have no problem in blowing us up if they want to and clearly they have no intention of contacting us cause I think it would be a lot more obvious and why would they, I wouldn't contact this planet if I were an alien with space travel technology (it's pretty f***ed down here, don't you think?). So what use is it to tell everybody and claim that there are aliens?
For all we know Earth might be like a pit stop on a highway where aliens throw out their garbage and go for a toilet break and forget about it a minute later.

Is there a difference in our lifes (your, mine, your family and friends) if they are out there? If you don't want to feel alone in the universe then I suggest religion, much more tangible club, also more members...though there are more videotapes of UFOs than God, I'll give them that.

That flock of birds had some bad diarrhea.

Quote
What man-made object spooges stuff all over Long Beach CA and then shoots off at great speed?

It looked like a meteor breaking up to me.  8)

Well then, that's one slow meteor with some seriously inventive movement tricks!

The object is moving against a solid grey background.  I did not see any indication of speed or chcange of direction.  I did notice however that the main object did appear to lose mass at about the same rate mass was being ejected at the apparent trailing edge of the object.

A military presence is also conspicuously absent from the video.  No interceptor jets, black helicopters, etc.

"Me on the other hand ... I'll be paranoid in about half'n hour"

Brilliant.

I love your show Mods!  It works for true believers like you, but it also works for those like me.  I love the idea of aliens/ufos (but don't think they're here) and yet the show is entertaining to me too!!

Keep 'em coming!

"If we compare these two objects, the one in Scotland looks very similar to the one I saw last night in Oxfordshire".

Haha, you're funny as always. You mean that the two lights have the same color?

Can't believe that you take this stuff seriously, but I don't wanna argue like Nacho does. And - as Darth pointed out - the show is entertaining for 'non-believers' as well.

Could some believer please explain why UFOs do have lights?

Space is dark.

Yeah, with all those UFOs out there just imagine all the crashes happening if they wouldn't have any lights. How irresponsible that'd be!

Those are not stars in the sky, those are UFOs that are so far that they don't seem to move. Some of them even got halgoen lamps installed, those are the bright ones.

They need to have lights, believe me, you do not wanna see a 100 UFO pileup at rush hour, those guys that crashed at Roswell, those are the ones that went of the highway trying to avoid the traffic jam.

To quote monsters vs aliens movie

"USA, the only country alien spaceships seem to visit"

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 11/05/2009 20:13:54
Space is dark.

And big! You are not going to illuminate it with a lamp... So; Why do UFOs have lights?

And... If they do really have lights... Why don't they switch them off when arriving to the Earth orbit?

mmmm....

Because they want to be found.  Why else would they abduct thousands of cows and people every year for experiments unless they wanted us to know about them?  I think the other animals must be jealous that the aliens don't want to abduct them too and secretly work together to hide the existence of aliens from us.

On another note, does anyone else get a weird feeling of excitement and dread when they watch UFO or paranormal shows and they start pulling out all these supposedly true stories kept from the public; really eerie stories or autopsy videos or witness accounts of being abducted?  It makes me feel like an insider in some massive conspiracy for about 10 minutes and then my mind reminds me that it's all bullshit.  I really miss some of those shows that spawned from X-Files' popularity.

Sorry if someone's posted this before, but I've only read about 2/3 of the thread and have better things to do than to read it all...

Incontrovertible evidence that aliens exist:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=detail&id=1022

To those of you who want unexplained objects in the sky to be visitors from alien civilisations who have travelled millions of light years just to dupe the gullible flash lights at us and don't even stop to say hello (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_encounter), I have just this to say: Occam's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ockham%27s_razor). Otherwise known as "KISS" or "keep it simple, stupid". If there's a simple explanation (a house on a mountain or a fast-moving military aircraft, some kids with ropes and a board) and a complicated one (alien visitation, aliens with lasers making crop circles), then the simple one is probably correct.

I love Occam's razor. Yeah, when you have a secret government aircraft sending radiation into a swamp that releases gases that are caught by weather balloons that glow a strange colour due to electrical disturbances in nearby towns at night, vs. aliens, it is definitely the first! :P



And no, I don't believe that UFOs are aliens.

If I ever make an x-files adventure game, the typical responses from Mulder for every case would be:

I WANT to believe!
'I' want to believe!
I want TO believe!
I want to BELIEVE!
I WANT TO BELIEVE!
I already believe...

Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 12/05/2009 09:33:44
Because they want to be found.  Why else would they abduct thousands of cows and people every year for experiments unless they wanted us to know about them?  I think the other animals must be jealous that the aliens don't want to abduct them too and secretly work together to hide the existence of aliens from us.

They're not out to abduct us.  They're here to inform our ancient, juvenile minds about the dangers of solarmanite.

I have done it!

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/muldy.gif)

Quote from: ProgZmax on Wed 13/05/2009 13:58:21
I have done it!

It's beautiful!

What about "Trust no-one"?

Excellent. X-Files would make a great adventure game.

Quote from: Hudders on Wed 13/05/2009 15:26:58
Excellent. X-Files would make a great adventure game.

yes it would, lots of stuff 2 do

Yes, ProgZ, I order you to make a game out of this. I imagine lots of hilarious dialogs between Scully and Mulder... plus I like your art!

Some more news, I forgot to update and let you know that I made episode #6 of UFO Watch, available here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dirFv_4U5A8

And for the sceptics - here is definitive proof of things going on way way up above you. Please, get some IR technology for yourself and go see. Things hotten up at after about 50 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abbZ16_lHOg

And finally another stunning video which I'd love to know what you think it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMHjfZ6_Bpk

Have fun watching :)

Other interesting space news is the mystery clouds on venus, the "impact" on Jupiter and also a large meteorite shower between now and the end of August, only thing is, we've only had one clear night here in the UK in the last week, but before it got cloudy, I saw 3 meteors in the space of a couple of minutes. Not that you care, but go look North Easterly at night and maybe you'll see a bit of a show :)

Go Mods, you're one of the least UFO-skeptical people I know :)

Quote from: Mods on Mon 10/08/2009 15:36:35
And for the sceptics - here is definitive proof of things going on way way up above you. Please, get some IR technology for yourself and go see.

Oh sure that's definitive proof that in nature you must account for billions, maybe even trillions of variables and sometimes you just can't and unexplained/unexplainable phenomena occur. I dare say that calling it anything other then an unexplained phenonema is just bias speculation.

I feel you may be trying to apply reason and purpose to something which can simply not be ascribed them. What we see is a result of our perception of our vision. If it matches a recognised pattern thats what we assume it is. Sort of like when you're a kid and you see a monster standing over your bed at night only to flip on the light and realise its just a shadow being cast by a small toy at your window.

A couple of small, apparently luminous objects darting across the night sky doesn't really resemble anything. Realistically it could be any number of things. The only thing it is definitive proof of is that there was a couple of small, apparently luminous objects darting across the sky that night.

Don't get me wrong, it COULD be aliens but it comes absolutely no where near to being proof in my eyes.

Unexplained is not the same as unexplainable, Crazy.

Quote from: Nacho on Tue 11/08/2009 22:18:51
Unexplained is not the same as unexplainable, Crazy.

Yes, I know that. In that context I meant unexplainable to mean something that can't be explained (without further observation of the events) past "It's probably just... ".

Well Crazy I don't know what else might work as proof to you. If I were to see two objects teasing each other at high altitude, I'd give way to the possibility. Maybe your culture or just your own nature dissallow you to see the obvious. It's fine. When you're ready to accept it, you'll probably see something for yourself, and I'll probably be treated too :)

Let's take the theory of the dinosaurs. Has it occured to anyone we might be an engineered race and that dinos were cleared out to make way for us? If a comet, blah de blah, really hit earth, why don't we find thousands of gigantosauruses, etc? Why just one or two? Why are only one or two burried?

Whatever your view on that, it doesn't matter. The videos speak for themselves. There is something beyond normal reason going on. I personally feel sorry for people who'd rather knock it than give it a chance...but you're giving it a chance, and thats great :)

Quote from: Mods on Tue 11/08/2009 23:00:18
Maybe your culture or just your own nature dissallow you to see the obvious.

To be honest I was specifically hoping you wouldn't respond like that. I fail to see the super-duper "obvious" connection between a indestinct white object moving above me and an advanced interplanetary star-ship piloted by extra-terrestrials. I'm not saying that it isn't but to say that such a thing is "obvious". The only thing "obvious" is that it was a white object there is nothing outside of the context of UFO-searching to especially suggest that is an alien space-craft.
Do you believe in god? Then I'd assume you'd get rather offended if I said "You're obviously too religous to see how OBVIOUS it is that there's no god".
If you're an atheist then I could turn it around and say you're just in cultural denial of a god and you would also get offended, am I correct?

I hope you're starting to see my point, there is nothing obvious about either of those beliefs and theres nothing obvious about yours either. Just as a god cannot at this point in time be truely proved or disproved neither can the presence of extra-terrestrials visiting our planet.
All that can be done in these case is speculation. There is no "hard proof" to be found.

The fact that those videos you posted earlier ascribe further traits such as one of the objects being a "mothership" dispite how he could obviously not know whether or not it was true only highlights the speculatory nature of your beliefs in my opinon.
Let's look at an example: When I was a kid around about christmas time I saw this indestinct shape in the sky, I thought it was Santa Clause, the more and more I thought about it the more that memory looked like Santa's sled complete with raindeers and a pile of presents on the back of the sled, a few years later when my parents revealed that he wasn't revealed I was disturbed past meer disappointment because of that sighting, I had suffered and been mentally shook because I failed to differentiate what it could have been and what I thought it was (and to be honest I still don't know part of me thinks it may have been some inflatable sled-shaped balloon).

I dislike it when people apply I'm in denial for drawing a line between "What could...", "What is...", and "What I think it is".

You see that video and all three of those evidentally become "It's a spaceship".

I see it and I think:
"It COULD be some manmade aircraft, it COULD be some meteorlogical phenomeon like electricity in the air or a shooting star, or it COULD be a spaceship"
"I see two luminous objects, they appear to be quite small however I cannot gauge the distance, it is also dark so I cannot tell it they are part of a larger object nor tell what is causing the illumination"
and finally I think
"The objects are so indestinct and their behaviour is unlike anything I can recall seeing so I just don't know what they are although personally I don't think it's likely to be a spaceship".

I'm not trying to say what they are or arn't, but rather that what you have is a possible explaination, not cold, hard, irrefutable proof. So these couple of posts have purely been attempts to try to convince you to broaden the logic you apply to these sightings.

Quote from: Mods on Mon 10/08/2009 15:36:35

And for the sceptics - here is definitive proof of things going on way way up above you. Please, get some IR technology for yourself and go see. Things hotten up at after about 50 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abbZ16_lHOg

What is this? The correct answer is... we don't know.

Some possible ansers are:

-Two fighters during exercises... Human made ones, of course.
-Two birds.
-A guy who fimed a screen where something he made in his computer is being played (fake).
-Fireflies.
-Two alien made aircraft which have travelled for million years for saying hello to us, but just forgott, and left the planet just after doing some stunts in the air above of the house of some random guy, in spite of doing it in above the White house or something for announcing its presence, which left without landing, giving us a message of peace, or a threat of a future war if we do not change our costumes.
OR
-Two spacecraft made by a civilization which did not want us to discover them, which managed to build spaceships which can travel along the spaces for million years or which controls hyperspace tecnology and do not have tecnology to hide its IR signal to a mere 50$ videorecorder.

Any of those is POSSIBLE. Not all those are PLAUSIBLE.

Heh, let's just say I wouldn't have posted them if I didn't think it was easy for average joe to assatain the difference between a bird and what I'd call alien intelligence. You're kind of right Nacho - the question was we don't know - but yes I suppose Crazy is right, I am trying to push you to the real question - we DO know these objects are there, we DO know they aren't weather phenomena so now we want real closure on what they really are. The question "are we alone in the universe" has been answered since dawn of man, yet our way of thinking has us all set in that we need to hear it come from the voice of god or a 21st century equivelant, spokesman for a government or space agency. Yet really the answers are all around, being gathered & put forward by every kind of individual, how it should be.

So when you say "we don't know", does that mean you've finally given in to the possiblity of alien intelligence? ;) Sounds like you have bud :) The videos are genuine - the titling may seem phoney to you but it gets people interested. Basically what a lot of people are doing nowadays is using infared binoculars & scopes along with their video cameras to watch the sky. It's only been in the last few years that prices on IR has come down for consumers - the guy that filmed stuff in Dundee would've paid about $200 for his, and they come complete with video output. Now by the look of it, they've had to set up a TV in there shed and then video the TV screen. Well, you don't care about all that but this is again just to let you know I don't enjoy phoney UFO vids myself so I do check all these things out :P The way that video is filmed is actually very clever - a good way to do it so as to get live commentary.

In this day and age more of the stranger options in your list are plausible than those of "obvious" origin. Advances and miracles in science that occur on a daily basis, all toned down though again because of our way of thinking it's just "cancer cure" that would hit the headlines. Every week NASA & other space agencies"discovers" something out in space in the media that they didn't know before (apparently), or way the universe works, "why we are here". The question is who's looking out for all these articles and able to make some structure from it? I'm not saying I can, but I'm saying it's perfectly possible :) They say that 95% of UFO cases can be accounted for, as aircraft, balloons, weather etc, 5% is the "unknown", I'd say by now we're at least really about 90/10 on that. In fact, I think they're stalling figures. It's probably really more like 40/60 and they just won't admit it.  :=

But I'm glad it got you thinking ;)

Crazy, my wording was a bit crap on that one - sorry, but you've helped me work it out a little better. Everyone with their individual backgrounds will have different beliefs, and sure culture and religion may play a part in it - but I was trying to be more broad, about peoples backrounds - not attactking your religion :P But through this you told me about your Santa story! And that's cool enough. Maybe it really WAS him! ;D I'm open minded about God to be honest though dude, I was a member of the church for 18 years and have an A-Level in religion & theology. But studying that helped me gain a much better self-confidence in what I percieved as "obvious" and "true" and stuff.

I'd say journeying through church & all those studies allow me to come to a better conclusion about the stranger stuff going on out in the world. And most people I know have religious ties, and so have been taught about what God is and stuff but really we should all go find our own is. But I do see your points, sorry if I seemed offensive.

So by the end of your post you're almost saying you're convinced anyway :P So good stuff :) Like I said I wouldn't post any old crap that I think could easily be identified as something obvious like a bird. Perhaps as a video-maker I see it as irrifutable whereas those who maybe haven't made videos can't really tell the difference in production techniques and stuff - and a whole load of other factors including the research I've put into this stuff - but again thats personal backgrounds (rather than the way I reffered to it last time Crazy :P)

Some people won't accept it. Some people will just think its a pretty video ;D Some people won't even watch it! That's fine. Cos I'm glad you both sounded pretty open to it (finally!1) It'd be nice to start talking with people about the actual possiblities of alien existence, life, intelligence and stuff - but again this is really something that's already known. Wild imaginations would be put down on the knowledge of certain facts. And to be honest, I guess that stuff is too deep and wild to talk about in its own right - and I know I can't filter whats true and obvious in that subject yet either ;)

But keep questioning it dudes. Just have a little more faith in it than birds and balloons ;)

And keep your eye on the sky! Even Google is trying to remind you at the moment ;D

peace!

PS; ANDAIL - haha yes! You know the score. Fly man fly!

Did I say I am almost convinced?  ???

:)

About that "5% that can't be unexplained...": Well: 95% of explanations is a FRICKIN' HIGH PERCENTAGE. I mean, I don't think you think that the Yeti was the murdered of those 36% of non solved murders in the US, do you? Why do you think those 5% are aliens? For me, it' s just the same... Unexplained is not the same as unexplainable, as I mentioned before.

It's cool to witness something you can't understand and say: "I don't  know what it is". Much better that coming with the first fantasy answer that comes to the mind.

All I can say is, Stop looking into YouTube for true UFO sightings.  Seriously.  It's really sad.
The video of the video was the worst UFO sighting I've ever seen.  If these people are SERIOUSLY going to be spending their time sitting in this shed, watching the night sky with IR cameras.... why the hell would they be recording the tv?
   This to me sounds like they recorded the night sky, panned around randomly, then took the footage and altered it with some pretty little glowing dots chasing each other.  Then sat in a room/shed whatever, and recorded from the tv that was playing the doctored footage.

Whatever the case... 99% of the 'authentic looking' UFO videos on YouTube are probably doctored.

I'm not a skeptic of life outside this solar system, or the possibility of the government hiding this really advanced technology.  Hell I think about that shit all the time.

And the funniest thing were the crop circles you had on your video.  Why would some 'aliens' make a crop circle with some fish on it?  LOL  I'm surprised even you haven't gone out with some friends to make crop circles yet, just so you can see the publicity from it.

That's what all of this is.  Attention.
Making a spoof video of a UFO is something I've always wanted to do.

Oh well... everyone deserves a hobby.  This one is just a little weird.  :-\  lol

Oh.. And I totally quote Andail! :P

I've been doing research. Stars are not visible via IR video records... Seems we have a fake, here.  :)

Where did you conduct your research Nacho, your butt-crack?

If you'd delved far enough you'd have found out about Generation 1 & Generation 2 night vision. If you'd have delved even farther up your crevice, you'd have also learnt that Generation 3 (see below) has recently only reached a consumer level.

(http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/Laughlin2009/DSC01662.JPG)

*sigh*

Now if the concept of placing a video camera lens to a scope eye hole or using an A/V output from a set of IR binnoculars into a TV and then sticking a video camera in front of that and recording the TV because you can't plug the  output from binnoculars into a normal video camera - is too hard to understand...you're in a world of shit :P

Okay... Thanks for your answer. It's true, I knew that IR cameras had difficulties to record the light of the stars, I had no information about 3 generation ones. It will be something I will mention in the Skeptic Circle Club, it's something they must know for not pissing it off like I did!  :)

But... I don' t think that are good news for UFO believers, to be honest...

That means that we have a camera that can even get the IR trace of long stars... Which means that it has the "power" to see the IR trace of something that has not been easilly seen by previous IR cameras.

So, what we have here is a frickin' sensitive camera!

That opens wide the number of possible objects that can be recorded... So, it can be anything... Bats, fireflies, birds, fighters... Anything. Come on, don't be so close minded to say that, from the zillion of possible answers, the UFO one, your answer, is the ONLY one! Open your mind as we skeptics do!  :)

I find an interesting question to apply to the unknown like this is:

How do you know those aren't ghosts?

What are the reasons they are ghosts and what are the reasons they aren't ghosts?

Ha! Well that's a pointless question to me Eric, cos you know I'm all in favour of the possiblity of ghosts. But perhaps for one of the others, skeptic types...

I think you're better off prepared for people to disbelieve that even your quote makes any sense.

Nacho, again, maybe you just haven't focussed on things in the sky enough in general. There are plenty of videos of satellites in IR, and now there is a slow gain in IR videos of objects moving "intelligently". When I say "I double check these things and have experience" does that filter through your head as "duh nuhh blurrh nerr" or something? :P I'm not a dunce, I know what I'm doing. You know how to ride a bike and I won't tell you how, I know how to spot alien intelligence, so please stop saying I don't know how. You know how before you can drive a car it seems like a massive task, then when you can it's as easy as pie? Well spotting AI is like that. You think it's going to be hard and you need scientific verification and governments to admit, but really, it's a piece of pie. The fact we are strictly told (by folks like NASA) that there "isn't anything (yet)" makes it even easier to spot that there really IS and that they are continuing to deny it.

We could all have a far more interesting conversation if we could just get past this "no there aren't" factor. I'm still a bit annoyed that anyone from a predominently western civilisation could still think that we are either a) alone in the universe or b) NOT being visited by ET's - and I can't quite tell if you agree to those two points but want to make my life hell, or whether you just don't agree. Either way, it's frustrating.

It was really Ryan's comment's that pissed me off, and I'm sorry you're getting the brunt of my anger on it. But it's not a great idea to say what I do is sad. I sit here working on music and games most of my time and so some videos on the side isn't exactly SAD. That surely is to say everyone else using their PC like I do is sad, and err, thats like a community of about 4000 Mr Timothy :P

Both your comments have been quite insulting to my intelligence, but I don't mind. Just think of it like this, would you tell one of the decent AGS artists that their art, good as it is, isn't art? And would you expect to be able to walk away from saying such a thing with a huge grin and everyone else believing you're right? You're effectively calling me a schmuck who's buying into this and believing fakes. I'm coming here telling you I've had experiences and that I can show you video evidence to open your minds a little bit. You're basically telling me that what I'm knowledgable about is a load of bull, and that's insulting. And that's probably why very few other people are questioning it - they're a little bit more open minded.

Now this doesn't bother me or offend me, you know just cos I'm typing this doesn't mean I'm going to hold it against you, and hopefully vice-versa - but it still has been on my mind throughout the day. I'd just say stop replying to my messages if you don't believe, I don't have time for you anymore. Enjoy your cake & day-time TV. I have bigger things to go a-solving, and I'm interested to speak to other people who think the same way. Or is everyone here just so passive and busy with worldy shit? :)

I think it's a valid question even for a believer in ghosts, Mods. What makes those aliens visiting the planet and not ghosts of dead relatives floating in space? If I were to follow contemporary pop culture they are not ghosts because ghosts live in old houses and don't float thousands of miles into the sky. But is that reason enough to dismiss them as ghosts? To dismiss them as ghosts you'd have to have some other evidence that makes them corporeal or binds ghosts to a set of rules, I think. Right now there is just footage of something moving.

Personally for me there are a lot of unsolved UFO cases not because there is evidence for UFOs in the case but because there isn't enough evidence for anything. These people filmed something in the sky, I guess that's really as far as we can go with this video. There is no more reason to think they are extra-terrestrials from another planet visiting us than there is to think it's ghosts in space than there is to think it's something more natural. I'm not trying to discount your beliefs I'm just curious how you'd refute the idea that they are ghosts in the space. Conclusions are an interest of mine I guess!

Those aren't aliens, they're just His meatball eyes, rolling around the sky, watching over us all.

Quote from: Mods on Thu 13/08/2009 21:51:10
I'm still a bit annoyed that anyone from a predominently western civilisation could still think that we are either a) alone in the universe or b) NOT being visited by ET's

a) I think it's rather unlikely (at least not definite) that we're alone in the universe, cause it's really really big. I guess it's possible that somewhere out there could be a planet similar to earth with some lifeforms on it, may it be bugs, apes or (already) intelligent humanlike creatures.... but that has nothing to do with some floating spots in the sky..

b) Well, as soon as I encounter an alien, I'll say: "Yes, it's true, we are being visited by aliens". Again, this has nothing to do with a blurry YT-video.

If you're really annoyed about that (b) , then after the same logic, people who believe in god should be annoyed about nonbelievers. They don't see or feel god.. then why should they believe in him?

This is a rather standardy question, but I never got an answer to it: Why the hell should any technically far developed civilization send some guys on a oh-so-damn-long-they'll-never-see-their-family-again- trip to earth, just to cruise around its orbit until someone has made a blurry video about them, and then start their journey home? What a stupid thing to do would that be!

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 13/08/2009 07:50:19
I've been doing research. Stars are not visible via IR video records... Seems we have a fake, here.  :)

Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video?

The correct answer to "Are we alone in the universe" is not: "It's very unlikely", Mr. Matti... The correct answer, actually, is "We don't know".

Anyway, the Fermi paradox almost proves we are not visited by aliens.

Quote
Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video? 

You must be joking right?   := Ok, I'll bite...

First of humans can't see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, only a small portion of it.  Electromagnetic radiation that people can see is referred to as (surprise-surprise) visible light.  People can't see IR (Infra-Red) because it is not visible light.

Second of all even if humans could see IR, IR images would not show up on a photograph, film, or video unless the film or video recorder were sensitive to it.  There is no point in goingto the expense of making video recorders that are sensitive to IR because nobody would be able to see it any way. 

Thirdly, even if people could see IR and all video recorders could record it there would still not be very much to see because the earth's atmosphere filters out almost all of it. 

Wikipedia -  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_astronomy) "The principal limitation on infrared sensitivity from ground-based telescopes is the water vapour in the Earth's atmosphere, which absorbs a significant amount of infrared radiation. For this reason most infrared telescopes are built in very dry places at high altitude (above most of the water vapour in the atmosphere). Suitable locations on Earth include Mauna Kea Observatory at 4205 meters above sea level, the ALMA site at 5000 m in Chile and regions of high altitude ice-desert such as Dome C in Antarctic...."

Astronomers are able to make IR images visible to the human eye by using false colors (i.e. frequency shifting IR image into the visibe spectrum).  You can click here to see a false color IR image of the Milkyway captured by the Spitzer Space Telescope.
http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/mediaimages/zooms/ssc2006-02a/index.html

and some other images here
http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/Outreach/Edu/sform.html

Mark, if I offended you, sorry :) that' s why I stopped posting here, not because I ran out of arguments or because I think I was offensive, but because I don't want to piss it off and unadvertedly offend you in the future.

But I do not agree. Let's agree in that. ^_^

Anyway, I'm going to apologize.  I didn't mean it to offend you.  My wording was a little harsh.  And I didn't mean to say you were sad, just your means of research was sad: youtube.  But I thought about it later on, and realized....

What if I, myself saw this killer UFO.  Like I literally saw it, without a freakin doubt.  If I recorded this UFO with my little camcorder, the first place I would go would be some news station.  More than likely the news station will spit in my face telling me it's not tangible proof to show the world, ie: could be altered, etc, therefor making them look bad.
So where else would I go with this video?  Obviously youtube would be one of my first choices.  I don't know of any other video websites, and youtube would definitely give the attention to my video discovery that I feel it deserves.  But obviously others would be screaming 'fake', 'this guy is a loser', and with a hand full of believers that may support it.
You never know though, eh.


Either way, Mark.  You really do set yourself up for any type of criticism.  If you believe these videos are authentic, you really shouldn't attach so much belief in them to others.  Like saying: 'here is definitive proof'.  But it's really not proof.  Even the video in my hypothetical situation wouldn't be definite proof.

And you also said: And for the skeptics [..]
Well I'm a skeptic, and I responded as a skeptic.

I don't know.  Even that video you had several months back about the triangular area where clouds weren't visible on Google Earth, but the surrounding area was filled with clouds.  You do realize (from my knowledge on this) is that these images are pieced together from satellite images that are in constant rotation.  Obviously a triangle would be formed by a linear (?) path going around the Earth.  For the satellite to video a large portion of land, it would have to be done in several passes.  That's why when you look at things closely, shadows in one section are different.  Perspectives are different.  Even sometimes it's fall/spring in one section and summer in the other.  Etc.  Sometimes there is cloud covering certain land masses and they have to grab that area on a separate pass; and from my understanding, that could take weeks.

Anyway, if you're sitting outside one night and you see and record some crazy freakin UFO, aliens, humans, whatever (obviously to you it would be just a UFO in it's true sense, which would be an Unexplained Flying Object. That acronym is usually perceived as Alien for some reason.) toss me a link of the video cause I'd love to see it.

And as for the thought of aliens already being discovered and hidden by governments would be extremely difficult.  There would have to be some sort of an alliance between every country that has discovered this.  Which makes things really really complicated.  Although I can see that if the crew of the NASA's International Space Station had seen ships flying around, that the government would tell them to keep their mouths shut.  It would spread mass panic to millions and millions.

When I was a kid, I couldn't look at the night sky without my first thought being: Aliens.  I was always on the lookout for some sort of glimpse of a UFO.  But lately I dunno, I guess I read too many science fiction books (and, chariots of the gods) and realized how implausible it was.  And seeing the millions the government spent on the listening dishes makes you wonder why they would go through all those lengths to 'pretend' they don't know there have been Alien visitors already.

Either way, it all comes down to this...
I would ABSOLUTELY love you to be right.  I would love for there to be a day when you can come on the forums and say, "Oh btw Ryan, screw you! I was right!"
Hell, I get the shivers every time the UFO's descend into Earths atmosphere in Independence Day.  I can just imagine my feelings if it were really happening.

Anyway, I probably won't avoid posting my criticism in here, but I'll try to lower my harshness setting a little. :P

Oh, and btw, I forgot to mention in the previous thread that I actually really enjoyed your episode 6 on your UFO Watch.  I'm not just trying to soften you up after me taking you in the arse in my previous post.  It was actually entertaining and funny, also with good photography and editing (in the beginning, which was the best part of it).  Your voice got really quiet in some scenes, you should either do a dub over or have a wireless mic (but I think I remember you saying in the Ben Jordan Movie thread that your camera didn't have a mic input).
Just can't believe you purposely fell at least 5 times for that ending scene just for the alternate camera shots.  It was really funny.

Guys calm down!  I'm backing you up here, Mods!  I too have experience in what others may laugh at!  I used to banana slide quite a bit when I was younger.  You may actually call me a professional slip-slider-banana-rider!  This guy right here is a PRO!  Yes, that's right, me, a PRO!  There's actually two things that I'm pretty good at though.  Banana man riding and YOUTUBE!  If it's on Youtube, its gotta be real!  That's just the way it works.  They put all the fake stuff in those celebrity magazines.  So I too am in your position and feel hurt when Mr Timothy cracks the accuracy and quality of youtube videos!

I too have a video that most will just not understand.  Take a deep breath and reel it in.  This is 100% real.  My skill in banana slidin' & ridin' says that this can be done!  Like I said, total expert on wet slides right here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wAjpMP5eyo

See!  Now everyone is a believer!  But we all know that some people out there just won't accept the genuine artwork on Youtube (aka Mr Timothy).  Tisk tisk.  Sad really.

Spoiler

  lol sorry I couldn't resist bud.  I just wanted to have a bit of fun.  I'm a PRO ass!  Yup, that's me!

[close]

But a side question... Did any of you's ever blow bubbles when you were a kid?
Well, he's back in town! lol

I'M A BELIEVER!

Quote from: RickJ on Fri 14/08/2009 09:19:35

Quote
Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video? 

You must be joking right?   := Ok, I'll bite...
*snip*

I don't remember saying humans couldn see anything other then visible light but I'm talking about cameras here. Since stars give off all kinds of light we should be able to see them no matter what. The part about the water vapour in the atmosphere absorbing infrared light is what I wasn't aware of and to be honest the rest of your reply didn't really have much bearing as far as I could see.

Quote
I don't remember saying humans couldn see anything other then visible light but I'm talking about cameras here.

Ok, let's suppose your camera could photograph an infrared image.  The image is still in the IR spectrum; how would you propose to view it? 

Quote
Since stars give off all kinds of light we should be able to see them no matter what.

This isn't true at all.  Different frequencies of light (EM radiation) interact differently with the interstellar medium.   Specific frequencies are selectively emitted or absorbed by gas or dust particles depending on what elements the gas/dust are composed of.  Also lower frequencies are less attenuated by dust pafrticles than higher frequencies. 

Quote
... and to be honest the rest of your reply didn't really have much bearing as far as I could see.

The rest of the post consisted of a brief description and examples of how and why IR astronomy is used.  For  example the Milkyway galaxy when viewed in visible has black areas void of stars.  This is because their visible light is blocked by dust.  IR light, however, can penetrate the dust and be seen by the Spitzer IR space telesope.  The linked image shows the results using a false color technique.

I am a bit lost in this discussion, RickJ, I must confess... too much tecnical stuff! So, to summarise... What do you think about the video that Mark posted?  :)

You mean the one with two white spots moving around in the dark?   About the only thing that can be said is there are two white dots moving around in the dark against a background of the night sky.   Since there is no indication of how far away they are from the camera there is now way to know how big or small they are or how fast they are moving.   Oh, ... and the night sky looked quite lovely.

There clearly is indication as far as I see it though, we see satellites moving in the image for the first 50 seconds, and we also see a bird cross camera at a much lower altitude. The objects there are high altitude. I'm fairly sure you intelligent people can see the altitude is high too, but you're convincing yourself it isn't.

As for the ghosts, very interesting point actually eric, one I'll come back to in a few days when I repost maybe :)

(http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/waylandsmithy3/P8120714.jpg)

Oh, and whoever did this in 4 hours is a genius. That is assuming it's pissed up students with planks...

Mark, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I  just don't see how you measured/perceived distance from lens to object to be at a high altitude?   

Perhaps we know that aircraft operate at some range of altitudes and that they sometimes have lights.   So when we see lights moving in a night sky we have an unconscious expectation of where they ought to be. 

Warning - controversial (political) views ahead, proceed at your own caution

I have developed my own little theory about (visits by) ETs - they're here to drop off some of their kind, not kidnap humans.
You know how Australia has gotten populated by caucasians? Because it was a penal colony for the British government to get rid of their criminals. (Ryan, I'm not trying to offend you - or anyone else - by this theory!) Well, likewise, planet earth is a penal planet for some technologically (but not morally) advanced alien race, who ditch their crazed inmates on earth.
When here, they gather themselves in what we know as "political parties" - the aliens suffer from incurable political correctness, wihch is the reason their government wanted them removed from their society, to prevent it from spreading and infecting/harming their own. As we all know, political correctness tends to be aimed at the western / earthly society as a whole, so the aliens are so miffed about not being on their home planet anymore, that they take their frustration out on us, because we're available, and gullible..

OK, so this theory isn't to be taken seriously, even if it is the only reasonable explanation for some (the majority) of current (and past) politics. Oh and I also don't believe that we're alone in the universe - even though there's a good chance thatalien life-forms haven't yet developed beyond the larve-stage yet, have yet to climb out of the water into the trees, nevermind about them having developed intergalactic space travel yet.

Oh, and furthermore back on topic: no, I myself don't believe in ghosts. The way I look at it, even living humans don't have a soul, and therefore, there is no part of living humans that can continue existing after death. If the mechanism which makes up the "soul" dies, so does the "soul" (mind) which exists as a result of that mechanism (the brain).

Oh, and I remember many years ago, at night, I coudldn't sleep and was staring out the bedroom window, when i saw 3 dots of light close together in the sky, slowly moving apart from eachother, I sat there for quite some time, looking at it, and they kept moving apart slowly, until I lost sight of them (they moved out of -the window- frame), and shortly thereafter I went back to sleep. but later, when I looked out the same window again, I noticed that our neighbour's house was in the way, and I couldn't have seen the dots in the place I remembered seeing them. This had me puzzled for a while - both at what the points could have been (not an aircraft as I first thought, they moved way too slowly and in the wrong directions for that) - and aftre noticing the house, maybe it was a sleep-induced hallucination.

Quote from: RickJ on Sun 16/08/2009 05:53:09
Mark, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I  just don't see how you measured/perceived distance from lens to object to be at a high altitude?   

Perhaps we know that aircraft operate at some range of altitudes and that they sometimes have lights.   So when we see lights moving in a night sky we have an unconscious expectation of where they ought to be. 

No, by the way they move, by the info we have in the video, seems that is something that is:

-Higher than 20/30 meters (By the movement, I don't think they are bugs or something small moving close to the camera... The motion is too regular... Unless they are big bugs that fly quite high)
-Closer than infinite.

Nothing else...

If/when the hostile aliens come to earth, all of the skeptics and cynics will think otherwise. Take the Orson Wells broadcast for example. I expect a fair proportion of the people that fled were devout doubters a few hours before hand.

What does an alien look like anyway? I've read testimonies from victims of all kinds of alien encounters, and all of them contradict each other about the appearance of the attacker. If you were accosted by an alien in your nightclothes I'm sure you wouldn't be able to recall all the tiny little details.

I don't conform to the conventional portrayal of green men in space suits though, but I definitely think there are beings of other kinds lurking in the abyss up there.

Quote from: RickJ on Fri 14/08/2009 09:19:35

Quote
Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video? 

You must be joking right?   := Ok, I'll bite...

First of humans can't see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, only a small portion of it.  Electromagnetic radiation that people can see is referred to as (surprise-surprise) visible light.  People can't see IR (Infra-Red) because it is not visible light.

Second of all even if humans could see IR, IR images would not show up on a photograph, film, or video unless the film or video recorder were sensitive to it.  There is no point in goingto the expense of making video recorders that are sensitive to IR because nobody would be able to see it any way. 

Thirdly, even if people could see IR and all video recorders could record it there would still not be very much to see because the earth's atmosphere filters out almost all of it. 

Wikipedia -  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_astronomy) "The principal limitation on infrared sensitivity from ground-based telescopes is the water vapour in the Earth's atmosphere, which absorbs a significant amount of infrared radiation. For this reason most infrared telescopes are built in very dry places at high altitude (above most of the water vapour in the atmosphere). Suitable locations on Earth include Mauna Kea Observatory at 4205 meters above sea level, the ALMA site at 5000 m in Chile and regions of high altitude ice-desert such as Dome C in Antarctic...."

Astronomers are able to make IR images visible to the human eye by using false colors (i.e. frequency shifting IR image into the visibe spectrum).  You can click here to see a false color IR image of the Milkyway captured by the Spitzer Space Telescope.
http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/mediaimages/zooms/ssc2006-02a/index.html

and some other images here
http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/Outreach/Edu/sform.html

To add some spicer to the IR on camera-issue: One tip for anyone who thinks that his IR remote contrrol is broken, you ca test that by pointing it at your digicam (like on your cellphone)Your digicam’s monitor will show a small dot  when you push a remote button and it works. So you should be able  to record IR-light of stars or UFO’s on a camera. (assuming that this light isn’t filtered by the atmosphere.

QuoteRyan, I'm not trying to offend you - or anyone else - by this theory!

No need to worry.  I don't think anyone would be offended by a 'theory'.  Or at least they shouldn't.  But people can be skeptical to theories.

Anyway, that theory is something I had thought about a few years back.  There is no way to know, but Earth could have been populated by Humans ONLY because we, the humans, were the aliens.  Alien outcasts.
It's a theory that sends your mind on a whirl.  I've always liked thinking about it.

Quote from: RickJ on Sat 15/08/2009 21:39:08
Ok, let's suppose your camera could photograph an infrared image.  The image is still in the IR spectrum; how would you propose to view it? 

The infrared spectrum (or atleast, near infrared) is clearly visible to cameras. Most have filters so that you can't see it (stuff like remote controls still show up though due to the high-intensity light). Since a IR camera has the filter swapped for one that just blocks visible light the same principle applies.

Quote from: AtelierGames on Sun 16/08/2009 15:32:01
If/when the hostile aliens come to earth, all of the skeptics and cynics will think otherwise. Take the Orson Wells broadcast for example. I expect a fair proportion of the people that fled were devout doubters a few hours before hand.

Actually, the "hysteria" created by that broadcast was highly exaggerated. Lots of calls to the radio station and to the police, yeah, but most of them asking if the radio program was true or a joke (We must remember that, during the beginning of Wells' show, when it was mentioned that the broadcast was a dramatization, most of the people was hearing a famous radionovel in another station) and some calls saying "I am seeing the aliens ships landing!" in a certain place of America where there were illegal grass burnings. Nothing else.

I can't get my head around that the universe goes on, like , forever?

Because if you build a rocket ship with an unlimited amount of fuel, that could travel for millions of years, surely eventually that rocket ship would hit a brick wall or something?

I saw this program once that tried to answer that. There's a list of unsolved mathematical problems worth millions of pounds to the person that solves them, and one of those questions calculates the shape of the universe. Well, hundreds of top mathmaticians have tried to work it out, but there's one person who thinks they've solved it. He suggests that the universe is shaped like a doughnut - it has a big hole in the middle, and it's 3D.

It's a bit like the Asteroid games, where going all the way to the top of the screen makes you appear at the bottom, and vice versa, except on a 3D scale. But then what's in the middle of the doughnut? Jam, probably. :)

/me is aghast at the weirdness of this thread


And I'm not talking about UFOs, either ;D

Quote from: gossip girl on Mon 17/08/2009 18:09:34
I can't get my head around that the universe goes on, like , forever?

Because if you build a rocket ship with an unlimited amount of fuel, that could travel for millions of years, surely eventually that rocket ship would hit a brick wall or something?

No, but there's a lovely little restaurant.

Cool, some neat debates :)

Firstly I want to go back to what Eric mentioned about ghosts. I'd never really thought of it like that but in my opinion, there's nothing to suggest they aren't ghosts! I find it hard to believe that craft that look metallic and such are "ghosts" but I guess in the scale of things, they just as well could be. Many UFOs are described as "orbs" of light and we all know, or are led to believe, that ghosts produce orbs in photos & videos and such.

Two of the UFO's I saw streaking across the sky, come to think of it, did actually look quite ghostly. Just the unreal nature of the light-source, the flickering too. But til you made that comment I've believed what I've seen to be mechanical. But who is to say there aren't angels or ghosts out there. I don't want to drag religion into it necessarily, but amount of "glowing people" stories seems somehow related. Also people following stars that appear suddenly - ghosts? UFOs?

Well an interesting point Mr Eric, but my brain is too virgin for it at the moment. It's something I'm going to keep in mind and look into more soon :) Really I still think it's something a little different, and ghosts are their own different thing. I can't really explain it right now though.

QuoteMark, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I  just don't see how you measured/perceived distance from lens to object to be at a high altitude?  

Perhaps we know that aircraft operate at some range of altitudes and that they sometimes have lights.   So when we see lights moving in a night sky we have an unconscious expectation of where they ought to be.

Point taken Rick :) We can learn to drive in a month, learn AGS in a year, who's to say we can't judge distances in the sky after 25? Where I'm from we have normal aircraft operating at ALL altitudes.We see meteors constantly, we've even seen the distance from here to a passing comet with the naked eye. We have the moon, we have satellites. We have a monitor in front of our eyes now and we can clearly gauge how far away that is, and adjust our eyes to it. You adjust your eyes when you see things at different altitudes, and this is something anyone can take into account with lenses, binnoculars etc, and usually, I'd have thought - with ease? There is just no way these could be small objects floating 20 metres above the camera persons head, simply no way.

And for my Mulder answer, you also have to remember space-ships are gigantic :) These are the most intelligent things we (don't) know of, just think about what exactly is coming in from the other side of the universe! The objects in that video are probably, at the very least, 50 foot long. And the scary thing is, they're probably at an even further altitude than we think and in the region of 100 miles long.

One other thing is the "Why would they come all the way to this end of the Universe..." quote. Well how are we to know that they're even anywhere near us. If they're flying 500 mile long ships around the last thing they're going to do is get relatively close to a civilisation like ours and accidentally smash into it. Also, if we were travelling in space and there was say...a planet of Cats, why would we want to disturb it? Ok actually there are many reasons :P But say a planet of regenerating crisp packets (there's a weird one for you Babar ;D) - why would we even bother to drop in and take a look? We probably wouldn't. But someone might, eventually. What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't assume our level of intelligence is even remotely matched in anyway to those that use space-ships.

There are so many possiblities out there and I'm sure at least 1 planet in god knows how many infinite planets there are decided to get along from the word "buh" (or equivalent situation with super intelligence levels) and are pioneering space right now like crazy. Classic school time quote - dinosaurs were around billions of years, and we've barely just begun. What you say Ryan clicks with me too. I'm beginning to wonder nowadays just how "lucky" we were to 'begin' and whether it was more along the lines of an experiment. But that's deep, too deep - even for me to be thinking about right now ;) But I mean look, we have a moon with a face that looks down at us. We have a red planet with a face on it that looks across at us. We have one sun, one moon for our tides - all just a little convinient? What if when so called moon hit earth and became the debris it had split into two? Would our oceans have gone haywire? The "moon" to me seems almost calculated to support our life-form. And that's what takes MY head on a whirl :p

Anyway, cool debate :) Here's some new video clips and stuff, some related, some not, to our discussions:

Hot off the press! Lasco - something I've been watching here and there, mentioned on one of my earlier blogs. But look at this and pause at 31 seconds. I'll be bold again and tell you here's more good proof :) And shit me sideways, this object is gigantic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfQImrnF40

Oh, and when I mentioned the 100 mile UFO earlier, I forgot to mention the 5000 mile one hanging out in Saturn's rings. Object near the end could be related to the one on LASCO. But it could all just as well be a load of bullshit, remember ;) Still waiting for some better footage or images on this one, but you'd be surprised at just how hard it is to get any public images of Saturn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45tgFO0hNCI

Eric, someone claims their ghost/alien orbs have faces...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSWEtn9f4c

What are aliens like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoKqClhooY

A teh real abduction!!1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9cZ8F1KTTM

All good discussion lately, thanks for taking a more serious look at it!

peas :)

Oh, I just want to add one more thing. That LASCO image is related to a new(ish) story about a possible collision with the Sun by a comet/dwarf star/object... Apparently this will happen on August 22nd and many of us will be fried to a crisp. All just hype? Who knows...the LASCO and SOHO images in the last few days have been weird enough to back it...

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB7dxQU6OtM

Explanation:
http://apocalyptichousewife.com/Planet_X.php

Well, just a few days til we find out I guess :P

You may also find this site interesting, lots of strange rumours!
http://www.godlikeproductions.com


Mmm, this SOHO shit is really interesting. I've never seen anything like it :/
http://soho.esac.esa.int/data/realtime/javagif/gifs/20090816_0318_c3.gif

Quote from: Mods on Sat 15/08/2009 23:10:43(http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/waylandsmithy3/P8120714.jpg)

Oh, and whoever did this in 4 hours is a genius. That is assuming it's pissed up students with planks...

More like four minutes. With Photoshop.

Believing in visiting aliens is one thing, but buying into the whole Planet X/2012 crap...? Wow.

-Hey guys! Let's do an 50,000-year intergallactic trip to another solar system!
-What do we do when we get there?
-Crash into the Rings of a non populated planet, or couse!
-Sounds like a plan!

Quote from: Mods on Tue 18/08/2009 02:43:13
Mmm, this SOHO shit is really interesting. I've never seen anything like it :/
http://soho.esac.esa.int/data/realtime/javagif/gifs/20090816_0318_c3.gif

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov//data/REPROCESSING/Completed/2003/c3/20030220/20030220_2342_c3_512.jpg
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov//data/REPROCESSING/Completed/2005/c3/20050814/20050814_1442_c3_512.jpg


Two possible explanations:
a) It's the Death Star.
b) LASCO uses digital cameras built in the early nineties.

Quote from: Mods on Tue 18/08/2009 02:43:13
http://www.godlikeproductions.com

Quote from: godlikeproductions
SORRY - YOUR IP ADDRESS HAS BEEN BANNED -
[...]
we sometimes have to ban entire ISP Providers because of attacks on this website..

kind of funny...

Quote from: Mods on Tue 18/08/2009 01:48:47
Eric, someone claims their ghost/alien orbs have faces...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSWEtn9f4c

(http://stringofthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/doom-flying-head.jpg)

Lost Souls™ have started invading the earth. We're pretty much screwed. Make the best of your remaining time, gentlemen.

Don't worry Crazy, I've got a stash of BFGs and plasma guns in locker 166. The code is 927.

Hehe, well yeah I'd shit myself if they had faces like that. They're probably just angry that no-one believes in their kind ;)

Aliens saved the sun the other day :)

I'm sorry the translation is pretty bad, but you get the jist, things on space camera that shouldn't be on space camera, etc:
http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstarviewer.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2F18%2Finforme-sobre-lo-acontecido-ayer%2F&sl=esl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8

Also that video of loads of spheres coming from a central blob now has a second angle to confirm its authenticity.

The last few days has been another major step to it becomming common knowledge that aliens exist, woot! Seriously it is going to be known in the next five years at the most, get ready for it! I'd suggest if you strictly can't accept it & refuse to - despite all this evidence - you might not be able to face some of the greater challenges of your existence in the future, but each to their own :P If it does become public finally then please don't try and deny it and become a psycho or something!! This is why I'm saying believe it now, cos the "or not" option is about to go out the window :=

I'm curious, do you know what the official story is for these images? How many people who are looking at these images know what they are looking at? What do the experts who built it say these images are of?

Quote from: Mods on Thu 20/08/2009 15:20:12
get ready for it!

And don't forget to bring cat food.

Quote from: Mods on Thu 20/08/2009 15:20:12
and become a psycho or something!!

If they don't share their advanced crop circle making technology, I'll definitely go postal. 


Some more shocking evidence from LASCO:

A fleet of alien spaceships:
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov//data/REPROCESSING/Completed/2003/c3/20030912/20030912_2342_c3_512.jpg

Attack of the evil black squares, resulting in the disappearance of 1/3 of the universe:
http://soho.esac.esa.int/data/realtime/javagif/gifs/20071003_1642_c3.gif

Quote from: Mods on Tue 18/08/2009 01:48:47
(...) and we all know, or are led to believe, that ghosts produce orbs in photos & videos and such.

Don't tell me you consider the so-called "orbs" something supernatural. Please! But if so, then please tell me why they only appear on rainy or snowy days or if it's very dusty around..

No, but I consider the LASCO images to be proof of something "out there". I don't believe in these orb things in photos, I reckon it's more likely dust or atmospheric, but there are a few videos out there of something ghostly and different, but orby! I've also captured orbs on camera under conditions where co-incidence is just too crazy. And thats it. I can only describe it as "crazy" which makes me think there is some truth to it at least. But as Grundy might say; "It's not all about photgraphing orbs and things" ... :P

Eric, I've emailed the people that run these programs and I'm waiting for a response. But if the email I sent a month ago is anything to go by, we can assume we'll never hear from them. There is no official word. And I'd figure the fact the people that built the fucking machines won't reply to my emails means - they know something and they're not willing to share. The link I gave is probably a long the lines of a scientific response - at least, it's how I'd imagine at least 1 of 1000 scientists to respond... ;D But again, people dont have to be scientists to spot something out of the ordinary, and, as someone who has watched the LASCO/SOHO images for some time - these few that "crop up" are just too good to be true. But they most likely ARE true :/

To me the whole UFO/alien situation is like hansel and grettel. If you follow the breadcrumbs you will find the truth, if you don't, you'll be on this forum telling me what I'm saying is bullshit.

smiley, fair enough for researching! Images I've never seen but will refer to in my next video :) 2003 was quite an interesting year as far as LASCO is concerned. I don't know what to think...

Is that really the most likely answer to them not emailing you back, though? Why put the images on the internet for all to see if they are trying to hide something?

Reading up on these images it seems they are taking pictures of stars, the center spot in the images is an occluder that blocks out the light from the star so you can see what is happening around the star and not have your images washed out from the light of the star. They are also pretty open about what they are doing and there are many articles online describing the process, the reason and even mathematical formulas for how they dealt with distortion in the images and other things. They release the images on the internet even when these so called anomolies appear, no one had to steal them and release them to the people, no one had to file a Freedom of Information Act to get them released. The Soho space craft is a joint effort between NASA and the European Space Agency. They seem to be looking into space with an EXTREMELY SENSITIVE CAMERA and directly at stars and our sun. Is there even the slightest possibility to you that you are looking at images that you do not understand but the people who built this thing know full well are just bad pictures where the calibration was off or any number of problems when pointing a camera into space directly at a star?

http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/

This is a site run by the US Military, they provide images for anyone to look at, even movies for free! Not very hush hush about this stuff if they release it for free.

http://sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil/index.php?p=cometform

Here's a site to explain how to spot comets, according to a NASA website the SOHO spacecraft has accounted for approximately one-half of all comet discoveries with computed orbits in the history of astronomy. Many of the discoveries by amateur astronomers. This site helps explain to amateurs how to spot comets and not be confused by the countless problems and errors in taking a very sensitive camera and pointing it at a star in space.

Neat, even Phil Plait explains what the images are. He is an astronomer and in my opinion extremely reliable:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/soho.html

in short:

"The point here is that people ... have no experience with digital astronomical cameras, and assume they simply take pictures. CCDs are far more complicated than that, and in fact I have just scratched the surface here with what you need to know to interpret CCD images."

I guess in conclusion... I, Eric Feurstein, can NOT WAIT for an alien spaceship to appear in our orbit. I also CAN NOT WAIT to find a microbe on another planet. I CAN NOT WAIT for us to find some algae under the ice of Europa, will it have DNA?!? HOLY CRAP! Imagine if it didn't have DNA and it was completely separate from our evolution, holy shit. The thing I ultimately can't wait for is evidence of aliens that is not easily explained by people who know what they are looking at. SOHO images are well documented on what they are, how they work and how to interpret them. THAT is how I can look at these and not be convinced, Mods, not because I'm willfully averting my eyes and rejecting evidence.

So what is the circular object with a dark circle at what could be the "front" end of it, why is it really defined as circular? What do you say it is?

What are the 4 sets of 3 lights near the sun in the red image?

If these have been explained in the articles you've read, I'd be interested to see the quote posted. I'll get around to reading the articles myself next week :)

Cheers dude

Sorry, what images are you talking about specifically? You linked a lot of videos and I don't know what you're talking about exactly.

Even so, I'm not qualified to comment on what is in those images. Pareidolia and general ignorance would make me leap to conclusions that are unfounded.

http://www.xanaduobservatory.com/VeilFitsLibFirstTry.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/girlpuck/Eagle%20Nebula.jpg

For instance, look at these pictures, first off, why are there clouds in space, I thought scientists said that there is no atmosphere in space! It's a vacuum so why are there clouds?!

All of these questions have been answered by the people who know how to even begin answering the questions. I'm sorry to say that there are answers to the questions you seek but you don't like them because they are seemingly mundane. There was a video I posted a while back about what really happened at Roswell as explained by a Professor Muller during a lecture on sound waves. He explains the sound channel in the water and Sofar spheres, he explains the sound channel in the sky, all discovered by humans and used by humans. When you hear the story Muller tells about how all of these incidents come together to equal a crashed "flying disc" in New Mexico, it's amazing! It's a great story and it's true! But because it isn't aliens it is seen as mundane. That's too bad.

Will every picture of something in the sky be explained, of course not, and it's silly for anyone to think so. But every sound outside your house at 3am is also not explained but chances are that it's something mundane and not Bigfoot. So again, when you take the holy grail of UFO stories, Roswell, and you learn the backstory from people who know how to interpret the data, you get the truth. So when someone then shows me a picture of something without the advanced knowledge on how to interpret the photo, I can't and should not believe them. Hence, SOHO photos.

Good points, but what about this - since Roswell, no government has said "such things exist", but also since Roswell, have been documenting orindary peoples experiences of things in the sky. I was talking about this image of the sun:

(http://starviewer.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/20090816_042320_n7c2a.jpg?w=700&h=700)

which is where I think significant evidence is because "stars" would never line up like that, and, well, as discussed previously, they're closer than the stars by far. I'd like to think that even you Mr Furrspleen can decipher that these objects aren't stars, satellites, comets or atmospheric...and are hosted on the NASA server, etc...but you be the judge, I'm interested in your opinion :)

NASA leaves these things in because there will be too much implication on them in the future if they never had. The problem is that from the beginning they've slipped up and allowed these things to get into public domain. In a year or 2 they'll claim to find ET out there, and imagine if they said that and did not have a catlog of evidence to later go "Oh look at that, we already had them on tape" than if they said "We found em, but no previous evidence" but members of the public said, "err, yes you do, we have loads of your mistakes on our hard drives" - there'd be a case for some crazy american to sue. They're just paving more lies to try & dig themselves out of a massive sticky hole they're already in. Most of the moon-walkers say there's alien life out there, and they're more likely to be in the know than NASA's PR office.

As for the clouds, I didn't know that they were. I thought they were clouds formed by clusters of billions of stars, but no, I have no idea. If there shouldn't be clouds in space but there is then its just more positive evidence that our scientists must know quite little really, or are naive to the possiblity or just get paid too much to keep their mouths shut, I don't know. I don't think we can say these questions have been "answered", when all we've really done is look at them through a telescope. In the same way I don't understand how a lot of scientists can assume we haven't found the existence of alien life yet, but then, all this UFO stuff really comes down to the individuals that have seen something or agreed to believe and persue the evidence & that accounts too for scientists who perhaps haven't. For all I know even the "NWO" or PTB don't even have a clue simply because they've never experienced it first hand.

RE: Roswell.
But Roswell has nothing to do with aliens from outerspace crashing on the planet. It has everything to do with the Cold War and the US versus Russia. Do you agree or disagree?

RE: That red picture.
I don't know. I can't know. That's the point. I don't have context. I don't have the education. What does the next frame look like? Are they still there in the next frame? Is this a single frame anomaly? What is the official story for what those are? Is this a common error? Can you answer any of these questions? If not, why not? Read the BadAstronomy link, he explains that these aren't just cameras from the store.

RE: The clouds.
This is the problem Mark... Those are nebula. Scientists have known about them for years. They found them, did tests to analyze them and now know exactly what they are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebula This is what people with education on the subject and context to the photo do, they explain the truth.

We have known about nebula since the 1700s! http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1087.html You've never heard of them so instead of doing research or asking for more information you just dropped it. If I google image search for Space Clouds it even tries to correct me "Related searches:  nebula"

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=space%20clouds&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

I show you a picture that you don't have context to and you assume it's scientists lying to you when for the last 300 years scientists have told you the truth about nebula. You had no education on the subject and no context so you didn't and couldn't know. You said yourself that you've never seen anything like these SOHO images, maybe that's a clue that they're out of your knowledge range and research is needed. For instance, I just read about nebula, neat!

I guess this is the problem. You are of the mindset that everyone but TruthLuver42 on youtube is lying to you or being paid off. NASA is an institution run by the United States Government, do you think the US Government is in any kind of habit of letting information out into the public because if it's found out that they lied it would be more damaging to them?! One of our Presidents illegally wire tapped the Whitehouse, they didn't release these recordings because they were nervous if someone found out they'd get in more trouble! Why would NASA act any differently than these supposed black ops alien hiding shadow governments?

QuoteOh, I just want to add one more thing. That LASCO image is related to a new(ish) story about a possible collision with the Sun by a comet/dwarf star/object... Apparently this will happen on August 22nd and many of us will be fried to a crisp. All just hype? Who knows...the LASCO and SOHO images in the last few days have been weird enough to back it...

It's August 21st right now, are you worried? Are you honestly worried? These people and their predictions have been wrong since the dawn of time. When has a doomsday scenario ever been predicted correctly? What happened to that Lovegood woman or whoever she was, the one claiming aliens would show themselves? Why do these people get free passes at being wrong? How many times must people be wrong before you stop listening to them?

Alright alright, I need to give some reason why I'm writing so much. It's obvious to me that you love this. You love writing about, making movies about and thinking about the possibility that there are alien visitors here doing... something. I fear contrary opinions are dismissed in favor of supporting arguments. I fear you trust people will a youtube account more than the people who built the camera that is giving you the photos. I am waiting for the evidence that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt [and well beyond a shadow government] that there are extra terrestrials visiting the planet. The SOHO pictures are interesting but after some research it is pretty clear that they are not sufficient evidence for me.

I guess the only thing I hope to gain from discussing this is maybe convincing you to approach your evidence differently? Ask more questions of it. Only by weeding out the fake evidence do we get at anything real and if these SOHO pictures are mundane we can forget about them and look for better evidence. Like how Roswell has been explained for the awesomely "mundane" story that it is so we can stop using that in our examples of alien visitation.

Anyway, I don't mean to offend, it's obvious we both are passionate about this subject and through my passion I hope to not have stepped out of line.

Mad! Google had a UFO logo not long ago with a code under it that read "All your O are belong to us" and today this! (http://www.google.co.uk/logos/goog_e.gif/bmi_orig_img/goog_e.gif)
which leads to a "crop circle" search. Not to mention the shit-load of alien related movies glinting on the horizon! Avatar, The 4th Kind, District 9... Crazy shiznay!

Thanks for your words, Eric. I'll think about what you've said and hopefully have an answer for you this mellenia :) I just wanted to point out the current surge on UFOs in pop culture. Cos it's been a while! Unless you count the Day the Earth Stood Still remake with Keanu. And that was balls. Literally. Huge glowing ballz.

What I don't understand is why UFOs, as possibly intelligent as they may be, don't blast out heavy metal or something awesome. They just flash. That's so old school and crap!

Aliens are IN Pop culture or aliens ARE Pop culture? Mmmmmmm...

While I have considerably less trust in my government's honesty than Eric seems to, I've always looked at the whole alien argument from the perspective of these vastly superior beings needing to be really, really, really damn bored to visit another planet full of life forms that are obviously of 'some' intelligence and just abduct them secretly, do foul, strange things to them, then deposit them back home otherwise unharmed.  Meanwhile, in spite of increasingly high definition cameras nobody can seem to get a single damn crystal clear image of a UFO or alien that isn't an obvious fake.

It would be like if we took an ant, and with specialized micro tools gave it an abdomen probe for the hell of it and then returned it back to the hive.  In practice, when people play with ants the ants just end up dead.  When mankind goes out into space we explore and examine new things, and yet with aliens it's the same old story of mankind being the center of the universe and aliens having nothing more interesting to do than stick things up our butts and give us weird scary looks.

Does any of this make sense?  

YOU DECIDE.

Progz, perhaps your US government forged a contract of sorts to allow certain "testing" on humans - at least, that's the view of some. The main supporting evidence for this is that earlier reports of abduction & alien interaction were with one race that's quite friendly, then, after a certain president was in power and a supposed contract formed with another alien race for certain reasons (the grays) they were given permission to do "tests" so long as they returned people back safely. If you read catalogued abduction reports they do go from "nice beings asking questions" generally before the 60's to "weird beings doing tests" after the 60's. But hey, who knows! ;)

Quotewith aliens it's the same old story of mankind being the center of the universe and aliens having nothing more interesting to do than stick things up our butts and give us weird scary looks.

Again, how can we even presume to know their agenda or even our own place as a planet/race in the Universe?

As for the HD image - I feel that will happen sometime soon, don't you worry.

Funny news now is Water on the moon!. Did you see how it was found by India's orbiter that's only been up there recently, yet certain US of A's have had the same technology, probably even better up there for AGES and never fessed up about the water/stuff under the surface. Well, luckily for us India blew the lid and NASA's efforts to prevent disclosure are starting to fall apart - thanks to the fact other countries than the USA have their own space programmes. Exciting stuff! The US is hitting the moon with a couple of satellite things to hopefully get new data about what's under the surface, but some think its going to destroy certain artefacts on the moon including the tower/plinth on the far side. Obama's stuff on nukes lately too, albeit it bloody amazing - total nuclar disarmement would be fantastic - perhaps it is due to the constant warnings governments get from alienz to disarm but have previously dismissed.

So to re-iterate,
1. Earlier this summer; NASA plan to test the theory of water on the moon by smashing probes into it Oct 2009 yet do not confirm that there is any possiblity of water on the moon.
2. In the last week Indian spacecraft confirms there IS water on the moon without having to smash into it.

Perhaps if these two things happened the other way round, it wouldn't seem so blindingly obvious that NASA lie about alien existence & with-hold other interesting/important information about space until someone else finds out.

And the nuclear disarmament; Could it be the US Governments way of buying themselves a ticket with whoever owns/built the outpost on the moon to destroy the evidence of it ever being an outpost by finally abiding by what "aliens" have been trying to tell us for the past 40 years - get rid of all your nukes...

Well - just thought I'd get you thinking ;) I've seen two possibly three UFO's in the last month - so there's definitely no shortage of them out/up there...keep an eye on teh sky! ;D

You are absolutely crazy, Mark.


I still like you, though.

Interested to know what you folk make of this phenomena over Norway a day or two ago:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XBsnAWqTr24/Sx-yBemVuZI/AAAAAAAAPmc/FhpPdKsiTx4/s400/tertert.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XBsnAWqTr24/Sx-yA5Fw7vI/AAAAAAAAPmU/R15pMENq1bg/s400/tertert444.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jmsZyQUInA

Out of control missiles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2nss13GvPM

Do they really spiral to a central point and then expand into nothingness? You be teh judge :)

The still photos, to me, look like time-lapse (left the shutter open for a long time) because none of the video I have seen come even close the number of rings or "radiance" of the photos.

From my perspective this looks like a laser-light show (from the ground) shining up on the clouds.

I did hear some speculation that it was a wormhole generated by the LHC.  I am fond of that notion, however ludicrous :)

The general consensus seems to be that it was a Russian rocket that messed up and spiraled out of control but man, I'd love to see something like that in the sky [as long as it didn't hurt anyone! or I guess waste god knows how much money] just for the sheer awe of it.

Yeah, or somebody put their greasy thumb on the lens.

Edit: I just found this link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8406633.stm

Here, too, russian rocket.

But I think... If my  friend Mark post it here, he must be doing it because of some reason. Let me see if I can follow his reasoning.

a) This is weird.
b) This is so weird that I can't explain it.
c)  Why can't I explain it? I should be able to explain anything happening on earth... I have been in this planet for decades and I should be able to give a rational explanation to anything happening here.
d) What if I can't explain it because it doesn't come from earth?
e) ergo, It must be something coming from the outer space.
f) ergo, It must be something created by an alien intelligence.

I agree with a and b... Even with b.
I can't really explain it. I *presume* it's something earth-related that I can't explain because of my lack of knowleadge of how lights work in zones close to outer space. I know nothing about how a huge light in the ionosphere should look... I don't know anything about how should that light be. I *presume* there must be something in the atmosphere, or in the way cameras digitallize that event to make it look so weird, but I can't be sure.

But I don't agree with c. I assume there are a lot of things going on in this planet that I can't explain.

I don't agree with people who can't explain a thing and automatically take the easy path and say: "hey! I can't explain that light... It must be an alien aircraft" or "Hey! I can't explain who that experienced mountaneer dissapeared in that forest: He must have been kidnepped by a sasquatch!" or "Hey! I can't explain how Copperfield crosses the big chinese wall... He must be able to de-matterialise and matterialise himself in another place!". Unexplained is not the same as unexplicable.

If I can't agree with c, I can't agree with d, e and f either. Anyway... even assuming that, I hardly dissagree with F. There is a lot of outer space stuff... That stuff is not alien made. It can't be.

Anyway... I want to go on with reasoning. Anyone who has stopped reasoning in step "f" should go on with it too.

g) Why an alien wants to take the world attention over him switching on a huge light?
h) If we concede that an alien wants to take the world attention over him... Why he does it with a light? Why he just doesn't land in fron of the white house and has and interview with Obama?

Not kidding here... g and h are real skeptik questions that believers seem unable to reply. To summarise: Why would aliens like to call our attention on them? If they want to call our attention, why they don't do it propperly?

Quote from: Nacho on Thu 10/12/2009 17:00:38
To summarise: Why would aliens like to call our attention on them? If they want to call our attention, why they don't do it propperly?

They are bored. They are having fun on us, poor earthlings.  :'(

The russian deffense minister has just admitted that the "object" was a Bulavá missile launched from the Dmitri Donskói nuclear sub. Case solved.