I'm curious about how the people of different places feel about sex in general and homosexuality in specific. I would like to hear from you about it (but, if it's possible, spare me of stuff like "the gay people are abomination and God will fry them for eternity" or "if you're not gay, it's because you're a stupid, moronic coward")
I'm from Venezuela, and here the gay people are kind of "tolerated" but not so much. You can see people atacking the government, by calling them thieves. If that's not enough, well, they call them homosexuals.
How is where you live?
I feel rather good about sex in general. 8)
In WHAM-Land gays are tolerated, but only for as long as they don't parade their "speciality" all over the place and keep their gayness to themselves. Troublesome gays might be deported to Sweden, just in case.
I feel rather good about sex in general. :=
In uoou-Land straightos are tolerated, but only for as long as they don't parade their "speciality" all over the place and keep their straightness to themselves. Troublesome heteros might be deported to Uranus, just in case.
I have no opinion one way or another. Being gay is of no consequence to anyone else. Even if it is a 'choice' as is often said by the conservative right it's still of no consequence to anyone else
Having said that I think I would rather live in uoou-land than WHAM-land. But I think we already established what I think of WHAM-land.
On a side note, I dislike the word "tolerance" and the ilk. I don't 'tolerate' black people and I don't 'tolerate' women. I don't see why I should have to 'tolerate' gay people. What exactly am I supposed to be tolerating? It makes no difference to me either way.
I really don't understand the obsession with homosexuality as a thing. It's a complete non-issue. The only person who should care about where someone puts their penis is the person in whom it is being put.
Both is just fine.
Here in Germany, people are pretty much over the novelty of "open gayness". And politicians here would never dare to be publicly anti-gay, they could pretty much pack their bags right away. The major of Berlin is gay, and he's one of the leaders of the social democrats, a major party.
There are of course several catholic fuckwits here who can't keep their traps shut and are anti-gay. But who cares. Germany really doesn't anymore. And I'm very grateful for that, too.
I've heard Sweden is very good on "gay-rights and such", but I live in a rural-area and work in a very man-dominated line of work and hear all too often gay-bashing.
On a side note: As per usual WHAM-land sounds like a really nice place indeed, as long as you are WHAM.
I really have no problem with it. My uncle Mike is gay, and growing up I never saw anything different about him, so no reason to now knowing he's gay. Some people act like it's a disease or something.
Gay people are humans and deserve the same human rights as anyone else. Like, duh. I mean people are people so why should it be you and I should get along so awfully. What I don't understand is why I started quoting Depeche Mode all of a sudden.
Word-for-word exactly what Calin said.
Here it's basically the four groups, with the extremes being the loudest as that is always the case:
- people who are "openly" gay, that organize parades, dress extreme etc.
- people who don't mind and don't really care who is gay (I think I'm in this group, more women for me (in theory)))
- people who don't say anything, but would rather if gay people weren't all that pushy about being gay and mostly annoyed by any public displays, but don't really care enough to actually care what other people do
- people who are idiots and extreme haters and don't understand the part about "what do you care what somebody does in the privacy of their homes", of course mostly this group consist of right wingers, nationalist and football hooligans etc.
There's a recent movie from Serbia, it's called Parada (The Parade http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1784575/), a comedy that shows some of the attitudes from this part of the Balkans. Haven't watched it myself, but they say it's a good movie, check it out if you have the chance.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 17/02/2012 20:07:00
I have no opinion one way or another. Being gay is of no consequence to anyone else. Even if it is a 'choice' as is often said by the conservative right it's still of no consequence to anyone else
That, in fact is an opinion ;)
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 17/02/2012 20:07:00On a side note, I dislike the word "tolerance" and the ilk. I don't 'tolerate' black people and I don't 'tolerate' women. I don't see why I should have to 'tolerate' gay people. What exactly am I supposed to be tolerating? It makes no difference to me either way.
I also dislike how some people use (or abuse) the word tolerance, that's why I wrote "tolerated" in my first post.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 17/02/2012 20:07:00I really don't understand the obsession with homosexuality as a thing. It's a complete non-issue. The only person who should care about where someone puts their penis is the person in whom it is being put.
Actually it is a "complete issue". You can say it's not fair, or worse (and I would support that), but the world it's how it is.
Quote from: Khris on Fri 17/02/2012 20:11:42Here in Germany, people are pretty much over the novelty of "open gayness". And politicians here would never dare to be publicly anti-gay, they could pretty much pack their bags right away. The major of Berlin is gay, and he's one of the leaders of the social democrats, a major party.
There are of course several catholic fuckwits here who can't keep their traps shut and are anti-gay. But who cares. Germany really doesn't anymore. And I'm very grateful for that, too.
Yes, I noticed that in Germany. Here is totally diferent. As I said, is usual to atack the government by accusing it of "open gayness", to the point that the only time that the PSUV has been defeated was because the opposition said that the government would allow the gay marriage and other "gay rights". It wasn't true, but just the idea of it made the people to focus on that and forget about the real proposals....
Gay or Straight, I will never think of them as weird or strange. Whatever a person wants to be is not up to me to judge. I am fine with it.
I am a straight male. Also, I have no problem with gay marriages..just let people live their own lives.
I do enjoy Lesbians though. :=
Quote from: R4L on Fri 17/02/2012 20:47:27
I really have no problem with it. My uncle Mike is gay, and growing up I never saw anything different about him, so no reason to now knowing he's gay. Some people act like it's a disease or something.
Some years ago, when I was in the university, I owned a little shop, and the best employee I had, was a gay, who tried to deny that (but it was too obvious). Before I hired him, he had problems to find a job because, as you said, a lot of people act like it's a disease or something.
Quote from: ddq on Fri 17/02/2012 21:12:10
Gay people are humans and deserve the same human rights as anyone else. Like, duh. I mean people are people so why should it be you and I should get along so awfully. What I don't understand is why I started quoting Depeche Mode all of a sudden.
What I don't understand is why I started quoting you xDDDD ;)
I think that's why parades, and comings out are important. Once people realise that their uncles, friends, co-workers, favourite actors or politicians are gay it makes it harder to think that way.
So it's not about parading "speciality" (even if that sounds like something you get at a gay restaurant), it's about parading how normal it is to be gay. Plus a lot of colours and up-tempo dancing, which everyone can enjoy.
Bitches love colours.
Quote from: anian on Fri 17/02/2012 23:13:57
Here it's basically the four groups, with the extremes being the loudest as that is always the case:
- people who are "openly" gay, that organize parades, dress extreme etc.
- people who don't mind and don't really care who is gay (I think I'm in this group, more women for me (in theory)))
- people who don't say anything, but would rather if gay people weren't all that pushy about being gay and mostly annoyed by any public displays, but don't really care enough to actually care what other people do
- people who are idiots and extreme haters and don't understand the part about "what do you care what somebody does in the privacy of their homes", of course mostly this group consist of right wingers, nationalist and football hooligans etc.
There's a recent movie from Serbia, it's called Parada (The Parade http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1784575/), a comedy that shows some of the attitudes from this part of the Balkans. Haven't watched it myself, but they say it's a good movie, check it out if you have the chance.
I think that there at least is one other group: Gay people who act as gay haters, in order to be accepted.
About the movie, I'll try to find it. Thanks for the info.
Another person's sexual preference is none of my business.
There are different types of gay, though. There are those for whom homosexuality really is just a sexual preference, and then there are the real divas, who mince about and make such a song and dance of their homosexuality. In some ways it's great that they are proud of their sexuality and can flaunt it, but on the other hand I do find myself thinking okay, so you're gay, we all get it, calm it down a bit, please.
An extreme version of this is Louie Spence. I just can't stand the guy, but don't think that makes me homophobic. Who he chooses to share a bed with is absolutely fine by me, but someone needs to calm that guy down and tell him that you can be gay and normal at the same time.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/12/22/1293033060890/Louie-Spence-007.jpg)
I was just going to write something similar to what Stupot+ wrote. I don't mind gays as long as they keep their business to themselves but I do tend to dislike those that takes it too the extremes. I don't understand why a male with a normal manly lower pitched voice would not talk normally but rather "fake" a higher pitch.
Oh and I forgot to say Sex is great. Much better than masturbation.
I heard Lesbians.
What I don't get when people say "Keep your gayness to yourself" (which is what a lot of people in this thread have stated) is; what does that actually mean? Can someone "Keep their straightness to themselves"? What counts as flaunting your sexuality?
If someone is aggressively (and stereotypically) straight, with the beer swilling, football watching, lewd comment at attractive women making, does that make you just as uneasy as someone who is aggressively (and stereotypically) gay?
Would a gay couple be able to share a kiss in your presence, if say, they were in a public place, the same kind of place a straight couple would share a kiss? (Not talking french kissing here, just the passionate displays you see on train platforms and such) Would they be able to hold hands?
If it is just the sex act that makes people squicky, do these same people get uncomfortable if a straight man or woman talks about their conquests?
I'm genuinely curious as to why people qualify "I don't mind gay people" with "So long as they keep it to themselves". If that's true, shouldn't all people keep their sexuality to themselves, no matter what it is? After all, a guy talking non stop about hot chicks is functionally identical to him talking about hot guys. He still wants to nail a person, they just have a different gender.
I have no problem with it, but most of the gays that I have known try to shove it down your throat and flaunt "Oh I'm gay, you have to respect me." I hate it when anyone does that. So yeah, I don't know. :-X
Scavenger:
It's a really wide, grey area. There's a lot of things that I don't like to look at. Seeing other people hawk up snot makes me nauseous, for example. But I also don't want to see really fat, ugly, straight people make out. Seeing something like that I can't help but feel sightly disgusted, too. (I'm not directly comparing ugly people to snot, please bear with me here.)
And, watching two guys make out just happens to fall into the same category. In fact, I mind it less if they are good-looking.
So not wanting to see X do Y doesn't mean you're intolerant of X. There are situations where an intensive display of Y is fine and even necessary, but if people are doing it because they're attention whores, criticizing it stops being intolerant.
Every other thread here ends up having some kind of sideline about boobs and ladybits and there are guys on this forum who have a problem with people 'flaunting their sexuality'?
What the ningnang bicky backy bigoted bullshit is this?
Well, years ago, I went to Germany and for the first time ever I saw gay people showing affection in public. It was kind of akward for me, because it was something "weird", at least for the standards from where I live.
But that was MY problem, as you can't blame gay people for how other people react to the fact of them doing something absolutely normal for any other couple.
Everything WHAM said. I like WHAM-land.
Don't care about either. Or "anything goes" depending on how you look at it.
And I don't like excessive rules for decent conduct. I mean I can understand that everyone expects to have some quiet and privacy, but other than that people's behavior shouldn't be restrained.
Quote from: Ascovel on Sun 19/02/2012 13:18:42I mean I can understand that everyone expects to have some quiet and privacy, but other than that people's behavior shouldn't be restrained.
I don't like how some people behave in public, no matter if they`re straight or not. There must be some limits.
You don't have the right not to be offended.
Quote from: ddq on Sun 19/02/2012 18:07:00
You don't have the right not to be offended.
This is the most sensible post in the thread.
Sexuality is individual to each person, Gay or Straight is a very limited way to view things. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, even to be offended by other's behaviour. I don't mind if you are offended, that doesn't mean the thing you are offended by shouldn't have happened. It's all part of the rich tapestry.
My great nation has a special police division, the GIA :=
They make gay people wear really tight clothes. Straight people can wear baggy trousers and black guys don't have to use a belt on their trousers. That's it.
Honestly, who cares? I personally find gay people to be funny in a good way. They just bring some colour to our somewhat grey times over here.
Also, there's no point arguing if some guys here act like guys and comment on boobs, it's natural, just like gay people feeling offended with it. Of course they're not, they just wish to be doing the same.
Sexuality should be a private issue for most people, but some want to show the world who they sleep with, what can we do?
I had a great post lined up for this thread yesterday, but it was lost in a "closed the wrong tab" incident, and all was lost. So, I've taken some time, and I'm going to try and reshare my thoughts from the other day.
Bigotry, in general, is a stupid concept. It is very much an indulgence in this perverse idea that because people are different from one another, one group must surely be better than another. People set up walls, and really, having some kind of small subculture as a scapegoat is a pretty efficient way to keep the good old "Groupthink" going.
It's a form of control, and that form says "Think and act like me, or you're worthless."
People have died because of this way of thinking. If you look at the homicide rate against gay and transgender people, it's through the roof. Same with the suicide rates of both demographics. Some groups of people love to bully those that are misunderstood and mislabeled. It's treated like a disease.
I dealt with this kind of treatment quite a lot during my senior year, when I came out to everyone that I was dating a transgendered Male-to-Female woman. There was a lot of relentless teasing, and I'd occasionally hear people call me a "faggot".
Even the employers that fired me at my fast-food job when I was 18 referred to me as a faggot after I had left. You try to think the best of the world, and that it's so opportunistic and open-minded, just ready for social progress, and then you experience things like that.
My own dad tried to take me to therapy, because he thought I was mentally ill. It's not fun having your own preferences described as a mental illness; if anything it's incredibly degrading.
My point: who cares what way a person swings, what gender a person was biologically born as, or what swings between a person's legs? We should take it upon ourselves to at least treat each other with a shred of decency. All these people want to do is find somebody that loves them for who they are, get married possibly, and maybe start a family someday. It's nice to see their portrayal is slowly getting better in the media as a whole, but having to deal with the onslaught of homophobes trying to run for president in the US (under the veil of "The War on Religion", no less) really puts a damper on how I feel about my country sometimes.
Hey, at least gays can die for their country now, by serving in the Armed Forces. But, until some of these social problems and constructs are fixed, I really am not sure that the US is entirely worth dying for.
Sex? Great!
Homosexuals? Not a problem!
I think it's a consequence of where I'm from (at least, as a result of how the Netherlands used to be), but tolerance was something I grew up with. Everyone's allowed to do whatever the hell they please, as long as it's not hurting someone else (or otherwise illegal, though if being gay was illegal then that'd not be okay).
What the hell should I care how people find love? And since most everyone deserves to love and be loved, all the more luck to everyone!
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on Mon 20/02/2012 07:09:06
Bigotry, in general, is a stupid concept. It is very much an indulgence in this perverse idea that because people are different from one another, one group must surely be better than another. People set up walls, and really, having some kind of small subculture as a scapegoat is a pretty efficient way to keep the good old "Groupthink" going.
It's a form of control, and that form says "Think and act like me, or you're worthless."
People have died because of this way of thinking. If you look at the homicide rate against gay and transgender people, it's through the roof. Same with the suicide rates of both demographics. Some groups of people love to bully those that are misunderstood and mislabeled. It's treated like a disease.
Tell me something... Who do you "blame" for this situation? How do you think it can be changed?
Quote from: Noctambulo on Mon 20/02/2012 19:21:54
Tell me something... Who do you "blame" for this situation? How do you think it can be changed?
There's a number of different people that contribute to the problem, but pointing fingers isn't going to solve anything. The best thing that can be done is educating people, and teaching kids from a young age that alternative lifestyles are acceptable and even normal. If someone grows up in an environment where these kind of relationships aren't ridiculed or treated strangely, they aren't going to think twice about LGBT relationships.
It's not unlike the seperatism we saw in the US, pre-Civil Rights Movement. All kinds of people were trying to find ways to throw down and support segregation, and the religious arguments against interracial marriage were appalling.
Society just needs to evolve past this petty bigotry and work towards something more progressive.
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on Mon 20/02/2012 21:52:53It's not unlike the seperatism we saw in the US, pre-Civil Rights Movement. All kinds of people were trying to find ways to throw down and support segregation, and the religious arguments against interracial marriage were appalling.
Well, I don't think that segregation is something that doesn't exist in the US. Maybe it's less evident, but still...
Quote from: Noctambulo on Mon 20/02/2012 21:59:29
Well, I don't think that segregation is something that doesn't exist in the US. Maybe it's less evident, but still...
That's beside the point, what I'm talking about was society's perception and support for such things in that era, simply on the pretense that so many other people viewed it the same way and took little time to consider the implications. You can draw a lot of parallels to the LGBT community back from the 70's onwards, and the set of social challenges and inequalities they still have to deal with now.
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on Mon 20/02/2012 22:03:54
That's beside the point, what I'm talking about was society's perception and support for such things in that era, simply on the pretense that so many other people viewed it the same way and took little time to consider the implications. You can draw a lot of parallels to the LGBT community back from the 70's onwards, and the set of social challenges and inequalities they still have to deal with now.
That's exactly the point: Europe it's way "more advanced" than the US, and I think that the gap is growing. One thing that I'm trying to understand it's why the US have a society with such perception of the LGBT community (and other things, like segregation).
Quote from: Noctambulo on Mon 20/02/2012 22:41:29
One thing that I'm trying to understand it's why the US have a society with such perception of the LGBT community (and other things, like segregation).
You try living in a country that games a two-party system, one of which parties is highly conservative and sometimes uses the worst contexts of their own religion to shape their party policies, and by extension, legal legislation. That isn't to say that there isn't social progress, but just take a look at some of the homophobes running for president this year (Santorum, Perry, Bachmann, etc)
It's an awful problem.
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on Mon 20/02/2012 22:49:23
You try living in a country that games a two-party system, one of which parties is highly conservative and sometimes uses the worst contexts of their own religion to shape their party policies, and by extension, legal legislation. That isn't to say that there isn't social progress, but just take a look at some of the homophobes running for president this year (Santorum, Perry, Bachmann, etc)
It's an awful problem.
Already did that...
And I have been in Europe (as turist, not living there), but still I don't really get why it's so different. In Spain, to name one country with a relatively new democracy after a fascist regime, there is a LGBT community far more "free" than the US LGBT community.
Quote from: Noctambulo on Mon 20/02/2012 22:59:08
In Spain, to name one country with a relatively new democracy after a fascist regime, there is a LGBT community far more "free" than the US LGBT community.
[/quote]
To that, the best I can figure is that some cultures are more receptive to change and new ideas than others. It's hardly surprising to see some of the countries that were most involved with the Enlightenment period and the Renaissance to be the ones most supportive of social change.
I suppose we're lucky in the UK that mainstream politics is fashionably liberal on social issues, particularly race and LGBT issues.
Prime Minister David Cameron (of our right wing Conservative party) recently said “I don’t support gay marriage in spite of being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I am a Conservative.â€
Which is an excellent illustration of the word 'bollocks' for any of you not familiar with it. A very inaccurate usage of the word 'conservative', though.
At least it's more self-consistent than the right-wing american politicians who want a free market with no state interference, but think the state should tell people who they can and can't sleep with.
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on Mon 20/02/2012 23:03:01
To that, the best I can figure is that some cultures are more receptive to change and new ideas than others. It's hardly surprising to see some of the countries that were most involved with the Enlightenment period and the Renaissance to be the ones most supportive of social change.
Well, Spain was more involved with the Renaissance period than the UK, but we can see the differences. And LatinAmerica is the "heir" of Spain (but very influenced by the US), and we can see how anti-gay is the society here, so... I don't really get why the world is how it is ??? ???
Yeah, but the UK kicked ass during the enlightenment. I mean arse. I mean... sorry.
Quote from: Ali on Mon 20/02/2012 23:34:12
Yeah, but the UK kicked ass during the enlightenment. I mean arse. I mean... sorry.
Maybe, but, the US (at least the original 13 states) was an UK colony, so... Why Spain is now more gay friendly than the US, even after 4 decades of Franco (and still now, there are very powerful pro-Franco politicians)? ???
I was being a tad flippant, but the US is a very unique country. It's not right to think of it as an offshoot of the UK. The big question is how a country with the world's most progressive, enlightened, humanistic constitution turned into... well America.
Quote from: Ali on Mon 20/02/2012 23:52:17
I was being a tad flippant, but the US is a very unique country. It's not right to think of it as an offshoot of the UK. The big question is how a country with the world's most progressive, enlightened, humanistic constitution turned into... well America.
Capitalism, and by extension, corporate greed and the corruption of absolutely everything! :D
I live near Amsterdam, which is very openminded about homosexuality as well as about sex in general. The basic attitude is that what two consenting adults do in their bedroom is their business, and not yours.
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on Tue 21/02/2012 00:00:25
Quote from: Ali on Mon 20/02/2012 23:52:17
I was being a tad flippant, but the US is a very unique country. It's not right to think of it as an offshoot of the UK. The big question is how a country with the world's most progressive, enlightened, humanistic constitution turned into... well America.
Capitalism, and by extension, corporate greed and the corruption of absolutely everything! :D
I kinda agree with that (no joking)
i know being gay is unusual but what sex people like shouldn't have anything to do with the way they are treated
A few facts, to set things straight ( ;) ) :
- 5 to 10% of every (EVERY) animal population is homosexual: Homosexual dolphins, homosexual dogs, homosexual chimps, homosexual whatever.
- Homosexuality is not a choice.
- The statement above might appear untrue, simply because of those cases of "homosexuals growing up in intolerant environments" that makes them in denial until they die (convinced that they're straight). Symmetrically, some kids might think they're homosexual just because of the hype, but it all settles down after puberty/experiments.
- There is no such thing as "homos parading their difference in my face". If two gays kiss on the street, then they're just doing the exact same thing as 2 heterosexuals kissing. Unless you bitch at people kissing in public places, then you have no reason to bitch at gays kissing or holding hands.
- If your argument is "but it feels disgusting to me" then it means you're not mature enough to live with the "5% fact" mentioned above. It's not your fault, though, it's society's. You were not taught to witness gays kissing and feeling cool about it. Just work on it to get rid of your bad thinking habits (just like people who practice to control their fear of black people, for example).
- "Parades" and other "Gay Prides" are not gays trying to impose their SEXUALITY on you. These are gays trying to impose TOLERANCE on you. It's just a peaceful form of demonstration. It has a political motivation (even though some gays who participate in it don't get that -- even amongst gays there are those "who don't get it").
- Sexual identity is a result of 2 factors: (1) What genitals you were born with (men, women, hermaphrodites, or everything inbetween), (2) What brain configuration you were born with (you brain tells you you're a man, or a woman, or anything inbetween).
The result of this is: You can be...
(a) A woman born in a man's body, who likes men (makes sense, since you're a woman). But people will call you gay because you're in a man's body. Yet you're still a heterosexual woman, and you feel like shit because Mother Nature denied you boobs.
(b) A man who likes men (people will also call you gay, that's self-explanatory).
(c) A man who happens to be homosexual (he prefers men), but born in a woman's body. People won't understand why the guy feels like shit, because he'll have the appearance of a heterosexual woman who likes men. But for real, the guy is gay -- but was denied a penis by Mother Nature.
(d) You can think of any other combination (woman in a man's body who likes men, etc. If you add hermaphrodites, it goes pretty complex).
- "Fairies" and other "annoying"/overly effeminate/expressive gays are just people born with a man's body, but also with part of a female brain configuration: That means they're extremely emotional, yet they are physically stronger (and more noisy, and possibly more polemic) than your average woman. And like most women, they like their physical/outfit originality. Blend all that together, plus the denied frustration of not being socially accepted, and you get men parading with pink glittery short clothes. You just have to understand where that comes from. It's more the fault of intolerant people than theirs.
Thanks for reading.
PS: I'm not even gay and I know all that. What's your excuse?
in fact there is one gay person i really like
(laugh) We live, we laugh, we love, and we get by; just like everyone else.
(nod) Some of us even make/play adventure games.
(p.s. to be on topic, the sex ain't bad either...) (laugh)