No I haven't seen anything like this yet!
And no I haven't discussed anything like this with anyone (because I will mention some examples but I have not discussed anything!)
Now I was thinking that really the Apprentice (for example cause there are other games also), or the Ben Jordan Series, or Prodigal II (if it is developed or not...???) would deserve to be commercial games.
How would you feel if The Apprentice III was commercial? Or Ben Jordan 6? OR Prodigal II?
On the one hand everybody is doing whatever they want, and of course as I said these games (and many others) deserve to be commercial, but on the other hand would that provoce some dissapointment? Some feelings fof let down? Of betrayal?
Dunno...
I think Grundislav has already stated that Ben Jordan will be freeware throughout the series. And frankly, although I like the Ben Jordan games, I'm not sure that they're quite of the caliber needed to warrant making them commercial. But that's up to Grundislav.
Apprentice III could easily go Pro. I would pay gladly for a game of that qaulity IMO some games just have that capability and yes I myself would one day wish to enter into the realm of commercial games.
I'd be surprised if any of the AGS series that are going could make enough money to be worth it, unless your idea of worth it is quite a small sum of money. If someone expects to make about 100 sales through the internet then they might manage that, or a few hundred if you're willing to put in the effort promoting your game, otherwise you need a publisher and nobody is going to publish anything we've made.
Personally I wouldn't pay much for the current stock of AGS games, I do enjoy some, but not so much that I'm dying to play them. On the other hand I do think a lot of our games are better than much of the dross that gets put onto GBA and to a lesser extent DS/PSP platforms... unfortunately we couldn't get someone to publish our games on those platforms if we tried.
Though this community has produced some fine games, I don't think you could expect to charge money for any of them.
Well, you could try...
I think the term "deserves to be commercial" is an oxymoron, as it wrongly implies that commercial games are inherently better than indie games. In my opinion, these games deserve to be Indie.
Are commercial and indie really mutually exclusive?
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 11/08/2006 23:06:21
I think the term "deserves to be commercial" is an oxymoron, as it wrongly implies that commercial games are inherently better than indie games. In my opinion, these games deserve to be Indie.
That's true and sorry for that. By the term commercial of course I mean that the people/company who made the game should get something for their effort.
Of course at the moment no AGS game seems to be close to the current commercial ones (talking about graphics mainly and maybe music, cause gameplay and puzzles are really great in AGS games), so maybe it wouldn't go so well as scotch mentions. On the other hand some games have been made with a really lot of time on them (for example the zone, as far as I know) and thus it would be good to pay for them. (I still inted to buy the zone...)
In my opinion the only thing that AGS really lacks (compared to current commercial games) is 3-d, both in characters (the module is really beta afak) and in BGs. Other than that the talent in a lot of members is not missing and don't really see the reason why the current amazing games (ok, polished up of course), wouldn't go well in the marketl.
As for the part of worht/not worth, I guess everyone values their time different, maybe it could be worth it.
again.
Dunno...
PS. Erenan, not really. But comercial means publishers, while indie means no publishing (except with personal effort). I believe that that's the main difference.
I think DaveGilbert and Yahtzee's thing of doing donateware special editions for a very low price is a good compromise. I wouldn't pay $30 for Al Emmo (or $5 for that matter) but I would pay $5 to someone who has put some extra effort into a game I know already is good and has been improved more.
Yeah, if you think someone should deserve money for their freeware ags game, then donate to him.
Quote from: SSH on Sat 12/08/2006 09:03:39
I think DaveGilbert and Yahtzee's thing of doing donateware special editions for a very low price is a good compromise. I wouldn't pay $30 for Al Emmo (or $5 for that matter) but I would pay $5 to someone who has put some extra effort into a game I know already is good and has been improved more.
This is good in theory, but doesn't take into account that people aren't as understanding (or as generous) as you are, SSH. I've gotten a ton of "I'd totally buy it, but I already know the story" emails. Many people don't see the point of paying for a game that, for all intents and purposes, they have already played. It's totally understandable.
I've learned my lesson, which is why my next game won't be released for free. :-D
Going indie is not the worst idea. I have met many people who have done very well making and selling small games that people love. It has been done before. Look at Spiderweb Games, EDIgames, or Amaranth games. They are great examples of indie success stories. Not everyone can be like them, but they are nice role-models to emulate. Regardless of what you think of their games, they are selling.
Just making the game is a tiny part of the whole process, as I am slowly discovering. The key is marketing. No matter how good your game is, nobody is going to consider buying it if they don't know about it. You're not going to get the word out by sitting in front of your computer. You've got to get out there, talk to people in the industry, showcase yourself, and have your marketing materials ready to go even before you finish the game.
It sucks, but it's true. People are less inclined to fork over their cash then you'd expect!
If Herculean Effort Productions decides to release Apprentice III for money I would for sure buy it!
I think, that any good AGS game deserves to be on PRO CD.
As I see having a PRO CD with a game I like as a special thing.
Offcourse free downloads is nothing bad with that :D.
But for doing such great work I think releasing on a PRO CD with a little profit should be possible.
But probably many people wont buy it I guess..
But I would for sure!
My time is so scarce these days, game designers should be paying me to play them. :P
Quote from: Peder Johnsen on Thu 14/09/2006 22:44:30
If Herculean Effort Productions decides to release Apprentice III for money I would for sure buy it!
Would it help to say that the Herculean Effort folks are doing the graphics for my next game?
You mean would it make me buy your game?
no.
I would buy it if it was of any interest for me :)
I have yet to try out your fantastic looking game, if I try it I might want to buy your deluxe edition;).
I would buy any game that I would think is worth it.
I have allready donated a bit for a few AGS projects, and I will be donating more in the future.
And I think I gonna download your game now to see if I will want to buy your deluxe edition (if you still selling it? :) ).
As said it is developers choice if he wants some money from his efforts. But I think the games like these should be free.
My reasons include:
- I wouldn't pay a decent price for my game. It could be high quality, but with a very small team or by myself I couldn't make a game with sufficient quality and length. And I value my time so much that I wouldn't bother charging smaller price.
- I like to give. It gives me pleasure. And like to see others give too.
I would pay (and I have) something like $20-$30 for a game I know is high quality and will give some 48 hours of gameplay. This is why I usually buy older games with reduced price :)
These are just some thoughts I have. Like said, everyone is in a different situation and will make their own decicions.
I would say that if someone wants to make a commercial venture then by all means. Who am I (or any of you, for that matter) to say it's wrong of someone to want to sell something they worked on? If it doesn't seem to show much effort it will be a definite commercial failure, and games that DO show effort might be commercial failures anyway because of the state of modern gaming and current interests, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try! Frankly, I just don't understand some people who behave slighted or insulted that 'x' author decided they want to make money from something they worked on. It's not really greed, people, it's survival. Those of you not living with mommy know what I'm talking about. :=
Definately.
And for me, I agree with progz, that anyone who has put a certain ammount of time into something, is entitled to ask something in return.
The original question though was if you would feel betrayed of osme sort if an author made some games for free (or a series), thus luring you into a universe, or a game and then started asking games, as it would be the case of Aprentice III. Would that be a bad thing? Hercual Efforts making a new game and releaseing it commercially is perfectly fine, but the Apprentice 3? Just wondering really...
I think it depends on what you mean by "commercial".
If you mean, someone sets up a paypal account on their website and charges $20 or something for their game, then yeah. I fthey want to try and generate some cash for all their hard work, then let them go for it, I say. I don't really regard this sort of thing as "commercial" even though it makes money. To me, "commercial" = publisher, "indie" = no publisher but still costs, "amateur" = free.
If you mean commercial in the sense of getting it into shops, then that's gonna be a bit trickier. First you'd pretty much have to get your game to crossover somewhat into mainstream or find a small publisher who'd be willing to take a pretty whopping risk. All those publishing and distribution (not to mention marketing) costs. It'd have to be a pretty damn spectacular game...
Cheers,
Cap'n Binky
Quote from: Nikolas on Fri 15/09/2006 11:03:54
The original question though was if you would feel betrayed of osme sort if an author made some games for free (or a series), thus luring you into a universe, or a game and then started asking games, as it would be the case of Aprentice III. Would that be a bad thing? Hercual Efforts making a new game and releaseing it commercially is perfectly fine, but the Apprentice 3? Just wondering really...
I think, personally, that the contribution of writing several games and giving them away free of charge is enough that charging for the next one to get some material reward for all that contribution is completely fine.
The fact that it's part of a series is not really a problem as although they carry over characters and an overall theme/plot line you get closure at the end of each story. However, I'd feel slightly differently if, as in our case, it was a game where the story was spread over the three games. Although there may be climaxes, cliffhangers, and closure to smaller sub-plots it is essentially three parts of the same game and and story. To release the first two for free, then out of the blue decide to charge for the third one would be a bit iffy in this case, unless of course this intention was stated before or when the first was released, as with Captain Brawe.
I would however, say that perhaps the biggest reasons to avoid charging for them is because it would pretty much guarantee that you would have a tiny percentage of people playing them compared to the previous games, and also that people will be much less forgiving of their shortcomings (and all games have those) -- these are the primary reasons we have no intention to charge for FE.
Also I doubt any 2D point-and-click would sell enough to compensate for these eventualities.
To more accurately answer the question about free game series turning commercial I would say I'd feel a bit dissappointment. Especially if storyline would be obviously continuing. But I would not feel really betrayed as they don't owe me anything.