Why isn't there an AGS twitter account? Somebody should start one up. Somebody important. And no, I can't do it... I'm far too busy. But if there were an @AGS account, I'd definitely follow it.
No, because I don't use twitter, so I wouldn't be there. Now we can't have that, can we?
What are you, 100 years old, man?
Nah, kidding. I only started using it a few minutes ago. :D
If anyone would want to do it, perhaps it's mods. But what would he tell followers that needs twittering on a daily, or even weekly basis?
I could see individual AGSers tweeting about game launches and game development. But AGS overall is better served by the forum, no?
Maybe CJ could set something up with the new site so every time the games database is updated, it is automatically tweeted through @AGS. That would be cool and I'm fairly sure it's possible...
P.S. When will the new site go up?
About twitter in general:
Is it more like facebook or myspace. I don't know anyone who uses twitter in real life that is. I've understood it's more like an american thing. I opened one twitter site once and it seemed rather confusing, but probably only because I'm not used to it :) Though I've learned that it's a society with a lot of members, so it might do good for AGS to have something there just as in facebook.
Twitter is mostly a great way to keep up to date with famous people, websites, businesses, etc. @AGS could be a way for us to keep up to date with either AGS the program, the AGS community (games, competitions, etc.), or both.
I stopped going on twitter ever since I lost my iPod Touch :(.
Though whenever I do get back on there I would definatly follow if anyone made it.
Also I second what markbilly said.
Never used Twitter, myself.
Though I agree that markbilly's idea sounds super.
Does m0ds have a Twitter?
If the database COULD be linked to a twitter account, that'd be sweet. Thirded or fourthed or whatever.
@Tuomas: I only started using Twitter a few months ago myself, but I love it. I always thought I wouldn't have anything much to say on a regular basis - and who wants to know what I had for breakfast anyway? (coffee, if your interested ;) ) - but once you start using it, you'll find yourself with stuff to say. I find it good for when I want to comment on something but I don't have the substance or the time for a full blog post. Looking forward, i'll be using it to announce projects i'm working on too.
It's nowhere near as bloated or confusing as FB etc. You just get 140 characters to say something, and you see a timeline of all the 'somethings' people that you follow have said. There's more to it than that - trends, retweets, mentions, lists, various Twitter clients etc - but it's up to you how involved you want to get.
The best thing about Twitter, as TerranRich said, is following other people. I follow a handful of 'famous' people I like from the telly, but I also mainly follow Indie developers and the author's of blogs I read. It's a great way to get to know people and feel involved, even if there have been no major announcements.
--
I fifth(?) markbilly's suggestion: An AGS feed of the games page would be awesome. I don't think a general AGS feed would be very useful though, as I'm more interested in individual developers, so i'll follow their own feeds.
Quote from: LGM on Sun 18/07/2010 07:49:55
Does m0ds have a Twitter?
Hah, nope - I read and write enough junk per day to not need yet another place to read & write more junk.
I agree, an auto-updating one would be great, or one controlled by CJ (as really he
is AGS and dev notes on new releases of the engine is about the only useful reason I could see for a Twitter account) - I would chip in some stuff if it was needed though. But, my personal opinion is I would not Tweet competitions and stuff. I mean, why set up a Twitter page telling people to go to the forums when they can just be going to the forums and finding out what's new quite easily in the first place?
Quote from: Mods on Sun 18/07/2010 12:16:44
I mean, why set up a Twitter page telling people to go to the forums when they can just be going to the forums and finding out what's new quite easily in the first place?
Good point actually. I find myself on the Recent Posts thread throughout most of the day. Wouldn't want to see an exodus because people wouldn't have to visit the forums for updates=S I use an rss feed too, but I prefer to be here 'in person' =)
When it comes to AGS (the software) updates, I'd personally prefer a Twitter feed than wading through the Tech Forum. I've already lost track of which version AGS is at now. :P
I'm exaggerating, but I think dev notes on AGS would be a great use for a Twitter account.
Hmm I think AGS is coming to the end of its development (at least in its current form) so it may be a little late for stuff like that now IMO.
What do you mean? CJ will stop working on AGS? Or a better, slightly different engine will be created in its place? I'm confused.
Calin, means that AGS is complete. CJ go vacations!!
"No, Twitter, I don't care what Sharon from down the street had for lunch."
Aptly sums up my opinion of the site.
I never bought into the empty criticisms some people have of Twitter. Sure, if you only follow average people, that's all the updates you'll see... but if you follow famous people, blogs, organizations, groups, etc., you get some awesome updates.
Well we've had this conversation in the tech forum once i think but essentially AGS is finished.. it does everything it was designed to do with a few fairly minor exceptions (full alpha blending support for instance).
If AGS were to be developed further I can see 2 possibilities:
A) it becomes much more open.. either open-source or the plugin interface is expanded.
or B) It has a major overhaul into the 3D or 2.5D domain.
I think that A is more likely than B since CJ will probably move to reduce his workload, not increase it.
So there are NO other features that AGS could ever possible add, and NOTHING else that AGS could have that would improve it? Ever?
A piece of software is never finished. Once it's "finished" that means it's been abandoned and nobody uses it anymore, nor do enough people care enough to see it updated again. AGS is nowhere close to that point. There's always something that can be done to improve upon it.
No but remember CJ is but one man.
There are other features that AGS would benefit from but there becomes a point where the work required to implement the changes is greater than the benefit provided.
Plus it causes software to diverge and become more and more complex with features added that are only used by very few people.
Well, CJ has always been but one man, and he's been improving AGS for well over 11 years and counting. Unless he's getting burned out and I missed that fact.
What else is to be done?
Custom pathfinding?
function overrides?
full screen shaders?
how many people would actually *use* those things?
Now don't get me wrong.. I would *love* all those things and they would be excellent features to add.
but look at it from CJs position.. would you spend literally *days* of time to implement and test those features knowing that only the hardcore coders would actually use them.
First Calin STFU NOOB!@12121!@ :D
Now, Cal has a point AGS has managed to accomplish its purpose. But that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. If there wasn't it would have stayed back to 2.72. Name one adventure that can't be made using 2.72 and was made using 3.xx.
People probably thought 2.72 was the pinnacle of what AGS could achieve. There is always room for improvement, and I'm not talking about the rarely-usable features you cherry-picked, Calin. Until CJ says himself that AGS is done and over with, there will always be more versions of AGS.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 19/07/2010 04:40:47
What else is to be done?
Custom pathfinding?
function overrides?
full screen shaders?
- Layered sprites (including the ability for limited animation)
- LucasArts Speech with lip-sync (implemented in the layered sprites)
- Variable movement-distance per frame (anti sliding)
and Yes, AGS was originally created to
allow you to create your own point-and-click adventure games, similar to the early 90's Sierra and Lucasarts adventures (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/), so some might say that it has accomplished its purpose. However, each of the above mentioned options were also part of (the late 90's) Monkey Island 3. And while some people here seem to think that adventure games ended in the low res era, it actually did not. And the limits that AGS currently has for high res keep me from putting serious time into the game I'm (slowly) developing (among with other things that take up my time of course).
So, no, I don't agree that AGS is finished in it's current form. And the argument
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 19/07/2010 04:40:47would you spend literally *days* of time to implement and test those features knowing that only the hardcore coders would actually use them.
goes for plug-ins as well. Adding the ability for plug-ins also probably took CJ so time, and it's also a feature that only the hardcore coders actually use. Yet I see quite a lot of users of that feature. So was it a waste of time? - Would AGS have been equally mature if CJ hadn't implemented it? - I think not...and I doubt you consider it a waste of CJ's time either.
So in short, there is still quite some crucial and relevant development into the realm of high res that will allow AGS to be better...features that may to be used by everyone (particularly those stuck inside the low res box), but they are important features non the less. I am, however, not trying to push this high res direction through CJ's throat, for it's in the end his decision and not mine (or any of us) as to which direction he feels AGS should take. And if that means that he believes AGS is finished than so be it, but I'll have to look somewhere else to finish my project someday...if I ever find the time <sigh>
Ps. regarding the original subject: I don't use twitter, and neither want to either.
Pps. my appologies if my tone is a little harsh, I've been under a bit of stress lately resulting in a bit of a short fuse. Also, I didn''t mean to rattle up the entire lowres vs highres (or pixelart vs traditional animation) discussion again (that we've seen for the so manyeth time here on AGS).
I think Calin was just trying to say that AGS is perfect, further development is more of a luxury. CJ could walk away today feeling accomplished and satisfied with the program and community he has created.
I seriously hope if CJ ever abandons AGS development that he will make the existing code open source - even if it would mean removing the resource file encoding/decoding bits to prevent ripping other people's games. While I do agree with Calin that the engine is fine as-is (also stated so in the AGS 3.2 thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=37668.msg543777#msg543777)), to be totally honest: if CJ declared definitely that he wouldn't be adding further resolution support or opening up the plugin API (or release the source) to allow us to extend the engine ourselves, I would be out looking for another engine straight away.
I love AGS, I love the community, but no way I would start developing a new game today using the engine if I didn't believe it would keep evolving.
(All of this totally off topic of course, but who gives a shit about tweets anyway? Death to Twitter, long live AGS!!! ;))
Quote from: Chicky on Mon 19/07/2010 08:35:09CJ could walk away today feeling accomplished and satisfied with the program and community he has created.
Indeed... and blissfully unaware of the black van with the tinted windows waiting for him just around the corner 8)
QuoteUntil CJ says himself that AGS is done and over with, there will always be more versions of AGS.
Well he has said it plenty of times, he's been hinting at that since 2004! I just hope he doesn't pass it over to someone like earlier planned. I remember being pissed off when I found out he intended to give it to someone to work on who barely uses the AGS forums ;)
QuoteI would be out looking for another engine straight away.
Really? Would you? You must be one of those 3.x people then, cos I'm fairly certain the 2.7ers would stick around. Why would you be off straight away, when you were happy to stick around beforehand for the functionality you have in the engine now to come around? I think "I'd up and leave if CJ stopped working on AGS" is a bit bolshy... You make it sound like AGS is only any good for its plugins ability and modern features. Well, I call you a silly tweet, sir! ;)
Quote from: Mods on Mon 19/07/2010 10:36:50Really? Would you? You must be one of those 3.x people then, cos I'm fairly certain the 2.7ers would stick around. Why would you be off straight away, when you were happy to stick around beforehand for the functionality you have in the engine now to come around? I think "I'd up and leave if CJ stopped working on AGS" is a bit bolshy... You make it sound like AGS is only any good for its plugins ability and modern features. Well, I call you a silly tweet, sir! ;)
Just saying that I have no interest in an engine limited for all eternity to 640x400 pixels as its maximum widescreen resolution. Didn't claim I would leave the community or anything, only that I would find an alternative engine. It was a very hypothetical statement of course, since it assumed a situation where CJ had made his mind up and there was no changing it - obviously in real life I would spend the first several months trying to convince him to reconsider.
Oh, and and since we're playing version apartheid, I'm one of the "3.x beta x people", btw ;). Not sure what the point of sticking with an earlier version would be if keeping my engine version up-to-date helps CJ troubleshoot new fixes/additions. I've yet to experience any version transition issue that couldn't be solved by restoring my latest backup.
The problem is, I still can't read my e-mail with AGS, or do my groceries. Plus shouldn't AGS itself be a social website better than twitter. There's always more to do!
Quote from: Misj' on Mon 19/07/2010 07:57:42
- Layered sprites (including the ability for limited animation)
- LucasArts Speech with lip-sync (implemented in the layered sprites)
- Variable movement-distance per frame (anti sliding)
Actually I have done all 3 of those by scripting. (The 3rd one isnt finished yet and still a little shakey but I can see that it's possible)
The first 2 things are so simple that CJ doesn't need to implement them.
Lucas Arts style lipsyncing for instance is about 35 lines of code (I also used layered sprites so that the character could continuously animate and still talk without the talking animation fucking up the rest of the idle animation, causing it to jerk.)
QuoteThe problem is, I still can't read my e-mail with AGS, or do my groceries. Plus shouldn't AGS itself be a social website better than twitter. There's always more to do!
this was very much my point :P
The 3rd is already done Calin, and recnetly by cheldon, or something, the guy with a 9 at his avatar. :)
there we go then... all done.
Well, if you just take the theory for a genre that is considered dead since 95-96 AGS has accomplished its goal years now. Same goes for Wintermute. That doesn't mean there's no space for improvement.
m0ds: yes, it's true, but CJ changed his mind last minute, and didn't give me the crown.
AGS appears to be stable and that there's not much to put, cause CJ is busy having his life. I recall when I joined and up until recently that the updates were really often and at certain points ground-breaking.
Honestly, Lucas Art lip sync is very overrated these days.
Quote from: Dualnames on Mon 19/07/2010 15:51:56
Honestly, Lucas Art lip sync is very overrated these days.
I disagree, it looks
awesome
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 19/07/2010 15:06:22
Quote from: Misj' on Mon 19/07/2010 07:57:42
- Layered sprites (including the ability for limited animation)
- LucasArts Speech with lip-sync (implemented in the layered sprites)
- Variable movement-distance per frame (anti sliding)
...
The first 2 things are so simple that CJ doesn't need to implement them.
So you're able to quickly and easily set up a character from three dynamic layers (body, head, right-arm), where each of them are on different frame-rates, and sometimes the arm-layer is turned off because it's merged with the body for a certain set of frames? - and than after a certain number of frames the right-arm is back on again but shows the left arm... etc. All this of course with very few lines of code and simple and easy to use for the user (and simple and easy to organize in a larger project)... if not, then you haven't been able to do it (because it said 'including the ability for limited animation', and that's the way classical cell animation does things).
EDIT: are your layers hierarchically linked so the child's movement is based on the parent while the parent's movement is based on the player's interaction. Can you set this link graphically by linking a specific location of one frame to a specific location of another frame; where these frames can be of different sizes throughout the animation?
The problem isn't the first part: that it can be done. The problem is that it has to be done un-intuitively and moreover, on a big project it gets hard to keep things organized. And as long as that's the case there is a lot of room for improvement in AGS. Maybe not for lowres games...but why should I have to want to do lowres?
QuoteLucas Arts style lipsyncing for instance is about 35 lines of code (I also used layered sprites so that the character could continuously animate and still talk without the talking animation fucking up the rest of the idle animation, causing it to jerk.)
Still, is the fact that you did it a reason why it shouldn't be implemented in AGS? - Should everyone reinvent the wheel just because it's simple?
EDIT:
if we deny features based on the fact that they can be (easily) scripted, then indeed AGS is finished. Moreover, since most of the features of AGS can be scripted/coded using C and the likes, AGS itself is a useless feature that shouldn't exist at all. On the other hand, since I consider AGS a valid application I completely disagree with the 'it can be scripted' argument, because it's absolute nonsense.
I never really considered CJ stopping development on the program. I just figured he would devote less time to it. As it stands, we have a fairly regular and constant cycle of development.
But who can say? Would we all stop making games if 3.2 was CJ's last? I doubt it, but we might find more plug-ins and such been written to add features to the core program. As it stands, I'm not sure why more plug-ins aren't written* (it's not really that much of a hassle to have to include a few dlls with a game, is it?) to add features to appease the whiners.
*I know writing a plug-in isn't as simple as blowing the florets off a dandelion, but I'd still like to see people taking chances with what a funky plug-in could bring to the table.
Quote from: LimpingFish on Mon 19/07/2010 19:20:22
As it stands, I'm not sure why more plug-ins aren't written* (it's not really that much of a hassle to have to include a few dlls with a game, is it?) to add features to appease the whiners.
Yes, 100% agree. There's loads of stuff that AGS can do which we just havent unlocked yet.
There are some very very talented coders here who could expand AGS a great deal.
I would love to do it.. but unfortunately I suck at C++ and it seems its not possible to use C# for unmanaged plugins. :(
I've said time and time again. If drawing surfaces fully supported alpha channels, I'd feel AGS is complete. It's the only thing that really holds me back from making some really cool effects and such.
Well, I wasn't aware that AGS has reached the absolutely pinnacle of its development. It is the only computer program to ever do that in the history of personal computing. Unless there are any other examples I'm missing where the software halted in development because it reached absolute perfection?
Oh let's everyone stop being ornery and go make some adventure games.
Terran: Stop being some damn obtuse. No one is saying that AGS has reached the pinnacle of perfection but one could certainly argue that AGS fills all reasonable expectations.
Quote from: LGM on Tue 20/07/2010 01:14:21
Oh let's everyone stop being ornery and go make some adventure games.
lol!
You don't post much, LGM, but when you do, it's good ;)
Well, you were certainly implying it, Calin, by saying that the only features left to add were frivolous ones.
AGS filled all reasonable expectations 6 years ago, but it still continued to improve.
I don't really understand the point of connecting websites with facebook and twitter at all. Because of that I would say that AGS should not have a twitter account since it has a freakin' website anyway. You really seem to dabble in redundancy quite a bit.
I wake up depressed from Final Cut, so here's my point of view.
Calin, because you can script and you can't find anything cool to add anymore doesn't mean AGS is there.
Look at AGS 2.72. As it was, there was nothing more to put. So CJ changed it completely. I recall we all thought there was nothing more to put.
Don't expect people to accept your opinion, when you force it upon them, is all I'm saying here. Pretty much LGM summed it up.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Tue 20/07/2010 01:15:34Terran: Stop being some damn obtuse. No one is saying that AGS has reached the pinnacle of perfection but one could certainly argue that AGS fills all reasonable expectations.
And one could also argue that it doesn't. Because that entirely depends on your (reasonable) expectations...many of which may be different that yours (mine certainly are).
One may even argue that many aspects of adventure game development could (and possibly should) be implemented into AGS that are currently not even touched upon. One could for example think about something like story-development (there aren't many good tools for interactive story-development out there, and it's something that's crucial to adventure games), or a way to order your ideas and references, etc. So why not implement it into AGS? - Yes, one can argue that AGS is essentially a programming tool designed specifically for adventure games, but one can just as easily argue that AGS is a development tool and that such development encompasses a lot more than only the programming aspect.
I still see a lot of
potential for AGS (including but not limited to the programming aspect of adventure games), I still see useful features that can be better and easier (including but not limited to the ones I mentioned earlier (that despite some claims aren't all 'done' yet; although some baby steps have been taken)), and I still believe that AGS is a good package (that CJ can be proud of, but that is still far from being at the end of it's development).
I don't claim any of the things above (working on story or gathering references and ideas) are required to make AGS useful...they will however may it
more useful (for it's purpose: developing adventure games).
Ps. Oh, and I somehow don't understand what this entire discussion has to do with Twitter...but then again, I never understood Twitter in the first place, so this might be exactly the kind of thing that Twitter is all about.
EDIT: Pps. Sorry Dual, Snake, LGM... ;)
Well fine, lets add a sprite editor, an audio editor and somewhere to hang our hats while we're at it.
Neither I, nor GG nor anyone else has said that AGS is entirely without criticism and as Terran said there is *always* room for improvement.
But software design is not about cramming more buttons on the toolbar.
Things like graphical engines should be as lightweight and fast as possible while still allowing for expansion if the developer so desires.
If someone wants to write a plugin that adds a useful but not often used feature then that's awesome but why should the engine-core be cluttered with it?
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Tue 20/07/2010 14:41:24But software design is not about cramming more buttons on the toolbar.
And neither did I ever say that it was...so how exactly is this remark in any way a relevant reaction to my post (to which the first line was clearly a reaction)? - Or is this just you trying to bash me with irrelevant knowledge that we (and probably just about everyone else on this forum) both already posses?
QuoteIf someone wants to write a plugin that adds a useful but not often used feature then that's awesome but why should the engine-core be cluttered with it?
How can you claim certain features will not often be used if they currently simply don't exist (or don't exist in an intuitive manner)? - Or is that a claim based solely on the fact that
you wouldn't use them within your vision or projects? - Because others might have a different vision that you.
AGS is currently very limited for people who use classical animation rather than pixel-art. Sure, that makes sense because the majority of people here do pixel-art. However, there are several people on this board who have shown (based on their art, and their work in progress) that high-res and classical animation is the way they want to go. But since the higher resolution also causes certain mishaps to surface (like sliding of feet while walking, and non-lipsync as simple examples) they currently can't make a game where the overall quality matches that of the single frames stills.
From your point of view (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=37668.msg543766#msg543766) AGS is created for low res 2D adventure games. And from your point of view (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=41423.msg547942#msg547942) it is finished. If so, then indeed why continue development for low-res features, and not continue with AGS to better support high-res and classical animation? - Would that clutter then application? - Well, for people who can't do high res or don't understand classical animation maybe. But for me? - No, that's not clutter, that's expansion in a good, valid, and desired direction.
As for plugins. There are a lot of 'problems' regarding plugins (many non-technical).
1. Rather than having a single 3rd party developer responsible for the engine of the game (CJ) you have multiple.
2. Conflicts between plugins can be a real pain to debug (particularly close sourced plugins).
3. If AGS becomes mostly/largely plugin driven these plugins will be distributed under different licenses some free some commercial (there is no reason why commercial plugins shouldn't be allowed).
4. Unless AGS is fixed (stopped development) the compatibility of the plugins will always have to catch up to new versions of the application (and CJ isn't the one responsible for making sure each and every plugin still works).
5. CJ is often credited in-game. Should the same apply to the creator of a used plug-in? - Should it apply too if it was a commercial plugin (because then the person was already given his due).
6. Plugins are developed by different people with different design-philosophies and a different 'standard' way of working. This will cross over to the way plugins are used resulting in a less universal feel and usability of the AGS application (not in theory, but in practice this is always the case).
and there are more examples that this summary (so while you can nitpick on each and every point, remember that it's a very crude summary of things to think about concerning plugins). Now I am in now way against plugins, as I've stated several times in the past. I think plugins and add-ons are among the most important features of AGS. However, it should be a feature and not the core of the application.
I also think that you've created some really nice example of the power of AGS (your sprite displacement is just one of them), and I think that with the right (simple and intuitive) user interface they would be very welcome additions (yes in the form of plugins) to AGS.
By the way, before we claim that I want to clutter up AGS with features...how many feature-requests have I made in all the years that I've been here? - And you? - Or any of the other people who now claim that AGS should be feature-restricted?
Aw, poppycock! (always wanted to use that word, thank you so much for giving me an occasion, and don't take it too seriously :))
There's very few of the issues you mention that differ much from the current situation with modules (compatibility, conflicts, crediting, design philosophy etc.). You do have a valid point about the closed source, but I guess that will be up to the developer. Btw, commercial plugins, really? I mean, I'm sure I could make a couple of quid on a plugin that adds full alpha channel functionality, but it goes totally against the freeware ethos of the engine itself and I find it highly likely that someone would quickly offer up a free alternative.
I do agree that *some* features would be useful to so many people that it should be part of the engine, and you mention several good examples. But there's tons of perfectly valid feature requests that were already on the list when I joined the forums that still haven't been addressed. Nobody's forcing anybody to use a plugin if they don't want to, but unfortunately we can't always rely on the kindness of CJ to get things done. Personally I'd rather solve my own issues than spend the time lobbying for new features that may or may not happen.
Personally I'm not advocating feature restrictions (though I do agree with Calin's "lightweight" comment), but rather thinking that with the current "fully featured" state of AGS as a generic, old-school point-n-click engine, the way ahead of us diverts into more specialized areas. And some of those would probably be better undertaken by people who need those functions themselves. What I really would like to see would simply be better access to some of the existing engine features that cannot be directly accessed (for instance - why do we have to use Sierra portrait to use voiced lipsync, instead of just getting the sync frame number from the audio channel and animate it ourselves in whatever style we want?)
In the past I've consistently refrained from using plugins for some of the reasons you mention - particularly relying on someone else to fix bugs and keep it updated. But I've never used other people's modules either, stubbornly so, even if it meant reinventing the wheel on several occasions. When I finally decided to write my own plugin to add some features that I miss in AGS, it was precisely because I didn't want to count on CJ getting around to implementing it eventually. Most likely I still wouldn't want to implement plugins written by others, unless they were either very simple or proven bug free through years of use, but that's just me being weird again :)
Quote from: GarageGothic on Tue 20/07/2010 17:31:09Aw, poppycock! (always wanted to use that word, thank you so much for giving me an occasion, and don't take it too seriously :))
You're welcome ;)
QuoteThere's very few of the issues you mention that differ much from the current situation with modules (compatibility, conflicts, crediting, design philosophy etc.).
True...but these issues will increase if plugins, addons or modules become more the heart of the application and it's development.
QuoteBtw, commercial plugins, really? I mean, I'm sure I could make a couple of quid on a plugin that adds full alpha channel functionality, but it goes totally against the freeware ethos of the engine itself and I find it highly likely that someone would quickly offer up a free alternative.
While I agree with that to a certain level, AGS was created with the ability to create commercial games in mind. Some commercial games exist (though not that many)...it's a logical step to assume that the same will apply to plugins. Particularly if you buy not only the product but also the support (and I don't present it as a fact, but it is something to think about).
QuoteI do agree that *some* features would be useful to so many people that it should be part of the engine, and you mention several good examples. But there's tons of perfectly valid feature requests that were already on the list when I joined the forums that still haven't been addressed.
True...which is one of the reasons why I don't really do feature request.
Quotethe way ahead of us diverts into more specialized areas. And some of those would probably be better undertaken by people who need those functions themselves. What I really would like to see would simply be better access to some of the existing engine features that cannot be directly accessed (for instance - why do we have to use Sierra portrait to use voiced lipsync, instead of just getting the sync frame number from the audio channel and animate it ourselves in whatever style we want?)
I agree with this...But at some point you could also wonder: why stay with AGS if you have to create too much from scratch? - I'm not saying that that's currently the case. And I do feel AGS is much more than just a very good basis (although there are some design decisions that wouldn't have been mine...but which application doesn't have that). But would that basis - without further controlled development - be good enough for me to stick with it? - I couldn't answer that question at the moment.
QuoteWhen I finally decided to write my own plugin to add some features that I miss in AGS, it was precisely because I didn't want to count on CJ getting around to implementing it eventually. Most likely I still wouldn't want to implement plugins written by others, unless they were either very simple or proven bug free through years of use, but that's just me being weird again :)
And I fully agree with this. The examples that I've given earlier would probably also be plugins that I would write (or have someone write for me, depending on my time and their complexity)...but just like you can't expect everyone to draw as good as some people on this forum, you also can't expect everyone to code as good (reliable, smooth, etc)...
Quote from: Misj'And neither did I ever say that it was...so how exactly is this remark in any way a relevant reaction to my post (to which the first line was clearly a reaction)? - Or is this just you trying to bash me with irrelevant knowledge that we (and probably just about everyone else on this forum) both already posses?
I love you, Misj'.
Calin, I like you, don't get me wrong. I like you a lot. You should probably know that by now just from IRC. You've got a sense of humor that I like, you are a hell of a game designer, you are an artist, a goddamn killer programmer and not to mention a damn good debater (which is something I will
never possess). And I must not forget the great hair.
But sometimes you...
do have a tendency, whether you realize or not, to make it sound like you know better than anyone else. I really can't stand that about anybody, so it's not just you. I don't care who you are or
what part of the world you are from - don't think you are king shit. Not that you do, but that's the vibe you give off sometimes.
I could put 'IMHO' before everything if you'd like.. because that's all it ever is.. my humble opinion.
But i do apologise.. I could probably do with putting a few more qualifying statements in what i say.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that, Snake.
pffft let's all bully Calin for expressing an opinion with conviction.
Quote from: TerranRich on Thu 22/07/2010 22:10:20
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that, Snake.
I have never got the impression that Calin acts in any way different regarding his ego than anyone else on this forum. Don't pick faults in the way someone presents themselves just because it hits a nerve. Terran, rather than posting snide remarks and hiding behind Snake's comment, why not speak up and share your opinion? In fact, screw that. Picking faults in someone's personality is childish, why not have a debate without getting personal?
CALIN SUCKS!
IMHO, Babar is an elephant
You're a bit unclear on what exactly you want me to say in my own thread, Chicky.
To be fair, I wasn't the one claiming that the only features left to add to AGS were frivolous ones, then being sarcastic with his argument. Chicky, you yourself claimed that Calin was saying that AGS was pretty much perfect, but everybody should realize that nothing is perfect. If CJ decides to abandon AGS, then fine, that's his prerogative, but if he still has the same attitude today that he has for the past 10+ years, then I don't see AGS just halting in its development.
Look. I know Babar is kidding, but no, Calin does not suck. I hope he knows that I do not think that way because of what I said. I certainly did not intend for this to turn into CalinLeafshade bashing. You know what, in my defense, there were a bunch of good things I said about that guy (every word was the absolute fucking truth) and one offensive thing. Everyone has at least one thing about them that some one else isn't going to like. Calin is not perfect and I sure the fuck am not either. And furthermore, Calin has a lot more in that fucking head of his than I ever had or will.
There is a lesson here on my part, and it is to stop posting in threads that have nothing to do with me at that point in time. I always seem to post when I shouldn't. It's just certain things hit a button sometimes and I feel like I need to say something.
Or am I just posting comments that are my opinion just like Calin was? Regardless, I'm done posting in threads that start to heat up. Maybe even at all. All I do is sound like an idiot anyway.
Calin, sorry. I'm sure you don't like me any more now than you already did.
And Terran, sorry to butt in between something that I had nothing to do with to begin with.
ha ha dude chill. I wasn't offended in the slightest.
except when babs said i suck
I am sorry that you suck :(.
I certainly don't hate Calin. I'm just saying he can be a dick sometimes. Then again, so can I. :D
<sigh>
First off, let me say that I have no intention to bash Calin (possibly some of his ideas, but that mutual). Also I fully realize that my own posts aren't the most 'soft' either (I just happen to like sarcasm, cynicism, and some other words ending with the letters 'sm').
I do feel that in this particular case Calin didn't 'argue' his position as well as he could; and as a result I haven't learned whether his opinion - in this case - is based on more than his own needs and wishes for AGS, or whether it's something that could be applied more generally. He does have a point concerning the 2D lowres adventure games of the early 90's, and he does have a point concerning plugins (and he is among the people who have shown the power of AGS), and I personally wouldn't mind if AGS became more of a community project in some areas than a one-man-job.
However, I also feel that he was a little too focussed on 'his own little box' (that sounds worse that I intended it), and didn't look at the subject as open-minded as he could. As a result, some of his reactions to my and other people's posts gave the impression that he regarded their opinions as misinformed or not well thought through without considering them worth thinking about. I'm not saying that he didn't think about them, or dismissed them immediately because they didn't fit his own...but he did give that impression (at least to me).
The thing is, I generally discuss a subject to learn the other person's view on it. I will defend my stance feverishly, but I can argue any side on any subject if given at least thirty minutes to think about it (ok, that's a bit exaggerated), and I regularly do (even though there are some points that I won't defend in public out of principle). The subject of twitter didn't interest me; the subject on possible directions AGS could take (also as a community) did...so I regarded this as a brain-storming session, where I was putting stuff in to look at the subject in a broader sense. Not to find an answer to the question of the future of AGS (I think that's largely up to CJ anyway), but to get some ideas and arguments on the subject. I still hope to get some more ideas for Calin and others.
Oh...and I of course completely disagree with Calin on whatever he says or thinks...I blame his girly photograph ;)
Ps. And the fact that I can't write short posts just proves that I will never be able to comprehend Twitter ;D
While I agree that Calin's original comment about AGS being at the end of its development came a bit out of the blue, I really think you guys are taking his simple statement of opinion way too seriously. He didn't 'argue' his position as well as he could? Why should he? He's not trying to convince anybody of anything. It's an opinion, not a feature suggestion (or rather whatever the reverse of that would be) - CJ isn't even taking part in the thread, so everything is pure speculation on the future of AGS. There's no argument to win, just people stating their feelings on the matter, which apparently are quite strong.
This isn't Alan-fucking-Wake, the things we write do not magically come true. Whatever happens to AGS is all up to CJ, and he is a kind and loving programmer so may his will be done. Go in peace, my brothers!
Off-topic (but haven't we gone far beyond that point several pages ago?):
Terran, I mean no offense, but I'm having the hardest time focusing on and taking the perfectly eloquent and sensible things you write seriously since you changed your avatar. Maybe it's just a very personal thing, but I find that stupid/ugly avatars really color my impression of a post - same thing with Monsieur OUXX' new avatar image. Took me several re-readings to be sure you weren't just being a dick. Not saying you should change it, nor suggesting that others may feel the same, just letting you know - IMHO and all that :).
(Now I'm actually beginning to wonder if part of the reason that subsparks' posts don't irk me as often as before was his change to a more neutral avatar - I'm almost afraid to check if his old posts actually sounded arrogant as I read them, or it was all due to .gif-based prejudice :-\).
Wow, weird that Misj posted this while I was writing:
QuoteOh...and I of course completely disagree with Calin on whatever he says or thinks...I blame his girly photograph
Quote from: GarageGothic on Thu 22/07/2010 23:57:03
Maybe it's just a very personal thing, but I find that stupid/ugly avatars really color my impression of a post...
This is something I've noticed too. Weird.
EDIT: When a person changes their avatar (especially a well-used one) I get a similar feeling. It's like getting used to somebody's face.
Calin-lovers vs. Calin-haters: FIGHT!!!1111
QuoteMaybe it's just a very personal thing, but I find that stupid/ugly avatars really color my impression of a post...
My avatar can't help at all then. ;D
Bah, Calin avatar looks like a girl, don't take him seriously.
One more "Calin looks like a girl" joke, and we'll have reached critical mass! Come on, people, we can do this!
isnt this cyber-bullying?
Methinks you're all just trying to convince yourselves that Calin looks like a girl rather than a 12 year old boy, so you don't feel quite as bad about finding him sexy. What a bunch of pervs! :o
youre not helping GG :P
...buncha gary glitters :=
This thread has lost its way!
Take it outside and burn it.
I vote we kill it with fire.
Group Hug everybody!!
People come and go.. But people come back.. Its ags, 12 years I know about it and still, the peoples are here.. So, its not the end, because all these supportive peoples is what matters,
Live long!
IMHO you all make my life miserable. But I'm sure we all know that. I said to TerranRich, bring the running roger or whatever that was Avatar back. It's like when Ashen had this old man full of wisdom and changed it into a young smartass. I never stood up to an avatar anyhow, if anyone recalls an avatar of mine that was cool and i should change back to it, tell me cause i can't sleep at nights.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Thu 22/07/2010 23:57:03He didn't 'argue' his position as well as he could? Why should he? He's not trying to convince anybody of anything. It's an opinion, not a feature suggestion (or rather whatever the reverse of that would be)
Because that's what a discussion is? - You argue (read: provide arguments for) your point...otherwise we can all just throw one-liners at each other and hope for the best. But what would the fun be in: AGS has matured, AGS is not mature yet, yes it is, no it isn't, yes, no, yes, no...what am I to learn then on the subject? -
Apart from that, I think you took the 'argue' way out of proportion ;)
Quote from: GarageGothic on Thu 22/07/2010 23:57:03CJ isn't even taking part in the thread, so everything is pure speculation on the future of AGS. There's no argument to win, just people stating their feelings on the matter, which apparently are quite strong.
This isn't Alan-fucking-Wake, the things we write do not magically come true. Whatever happens to AGS is all up to CJ, and he is a kind and loving programmer so may his will be done. Go in peace, my brothers!
Quote from: Misj' on Thu 22/07/2010 23:31:05the subject on possible directions AGS could take (also as a community) did...so I regarded this as a brain-storming session ... Not to find an answer to the question of the future of AGS (I think that's largely up to CJ anyway)
That's what I said ;)
Ps. And wouldn't the opposite of a feature request be the request to drop features (like the backwards compatibility)? - it would be a feature fixation request or something like that.
Pps. and Calin wasn't there something about your birthday somewhere around this time? - I'm not gonna sing, but happy birthday.
Quote from: TerranRich on Fri 23/07/2010 00:34:24
Calin-lovers vs. Calin-haters: FIGHT!!!1111
QuoteMaybe it's just a very personal thing, but I find that stupid/ugly avatars really color my impression of a post...
My avatar can't help at all then. ;D
I was totally going to comment on your avatar Rich, but that would have made me a hypocrite. It does anger me, kinda like slapstick comedy. :=
Also, hats off to GarageGothic for the Alan Wake reference!
Twitter account would be great, if it was used solely for game production/release news, or other important information.
If they were personalised, informal tweets from some guy on the forums, it would be bad. But it can't hurt to have another medium to spread AGS talent.
Everybody against @AGS would never have to visit it anyway.
I go to Canada for one week and I miss serious high-quality forum drama! Which doesn't involve icey! FML.
As far as a twitter goes, the worth of such an account would depend entirely on the quality and content of the updates. I don't see how it could hurt.