Jorge Drexler... yay!

[DGMacphee]

Since Dragonrose has commented that it's the latter, I'll assume that for now. So, assuming that, why is there a foreign  film catagory? Also, why is it that American films by FAR dominate the rest of the catagories? If the Academy Awards is in fact for films from all over the world, why is it that you never see one or two non foreign films in the Best Film or Best Sound or Best this or that catagory? Foreign actors are never in the Best Actor/Actress awards..

Not true. Catalina Sandino Moreno, a Columbian actress, was nominated for Best Actress. Kate Winslett are Imelda Staunton, both British, were nominated in the same category. Clive Owen, another Brit, was nominated for Best Supporting Actor. And Cate Blanchett, an Aussie, won for Best Supporting Actress. And nominated along with her was Sophie Okonedo, another Brit.

Now all these actors are technically foreign in the sense that they're non-American. If we are going to get really nit-picky about whether the Oscars are for American films or not, then you discount other English-speaking countries too.

I'm all for diversity in film because I believe in seeing the world differently. And I think the Oscars would support my belief (although it's a little much for me to assume, but I do so humbly ). Which is why I say go for it when it comes to nominating foreign language films in other categories.

[Kinoko]

Okay, they're foreign actors but they're nominated for the American films they were in, no? That was my point.

I'm totally all for foreign films too, that's not in dispute. I'd like to see the Oscars become more global, but it's one or the other for me, not this wishy-washy in-between state.

I simply believe that if it's a global award ceremony, it should be so properly so. Otherwise, stick to American made.

[MrColossal]

sorry to bring this up again, but what does it matter what the Oscars do? I'm just curious.

[DGMacphee]

Okay, they're foreign actors but they're nominated for the American films they were in, no? That was my point.

No, you're wrong. Three of them were in films not American made: Vera Drake (Staunton), Maria Full of Grace (Moreno), and Hotel Rwanda (Okonedo). And you could go one further and say Annette Being's nomination was for a British film (Being Julia), even though she's American.

I'd like to see the Oscars become more global, but it's one or the other for me, not this wishy-washy in-between state.

But it's not wishy-washy. It is global. It's an American institution, but nowhere does it say that it has to be strictly for American films. Doing so is stupid. It's like relegating the Nobel Prizes to Norwegians. Sure, Norwegians are a fine bunch, but there are geniuses and peacemakers in other countries too.

As eric asks above, does it matter what the Oscars do? In this discussion, yes, but here's the thing: The Oscars is comprised of Academy members who's purpose is to decide what films they liked. Now, I ask you this: Why should we tell them "Hey guys, you can tell the world what films you liked, but only if they're American films!" That's nonsense! People in the Academy can like films, and songs from films, from other countries. It's just like me liking films from Australia as well as America, Britian, Japan, India, Europe, etc. If you say, "Hey, they should only vote for American films." Then you might as well just relegate Americans to watching American films, Australians to Australian films, Britians to British films, etc, etc, which is equally as much nonsense. I like seeing films from other countries as much as my own.

The Oscar are just a group of people who tell us what movies, local or foreign, they liked. And I don't think anyone here can say what movies they, or anyone else, are allowed to watch. That's the real narrow-mindedness.

[MrColossal]

So then do I have to stop telling people not to watch White Chicks?

[DGMacphee]

You can try and tell them not to, but the way movies are these days, I doubt many will listen.

Sad, innit?

[Kinoko]

DG, it's like you misinteprete everything I say.

Okay, they're foreign actors but they're nominated for the American films they were in, no? That was my point.

No, you're wrong. Three of them were in films not American made: Vera Drake (Staunton), Maria Full of Grace (Moreno), and Hotel Rwanda (Okonedo). And you could go one further and say Annette Being's nomination was for a British film (Being Julia), even though she's American.

Fair enough, my mistake.

I'd like to see the Oscars become more global, but it's one or the other for me, not this wishy-washy in-between state.

But it's not wishy-washy. It is global. It's an American institution, but nowhere does it say that it has to be strictly for American films. Doing so is stupid. It's like relegating the Nobel Prizes to Norwegians. Sure, Norwegians are a fine bunch, but there are geniuses and peacemakers in other countries too.

Okay, here. Firstly, I never said it didn't -say- officially it was for any film, I didn't know what it said. Secondly, it's not like relegating the Nobel Prize to Norwegians at all because the Oscars is a show created by the Americans, isn't it? It's held in America, hosted by Americans and run by Americans... isn't it? If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

As eric asks above, does it matter what the Oscars do? In this discussion, yes, but here's the thing: The Oscars is comprised of Academy members who's purpose is to decide what films they liked. Now, I ask you this: Why should we tell them "Hey guys, you can tell the world what films you liked, but only if they're American films!" That's nonsense! People in the Academy can like films, and songs from films, from other countries. It's just like me liking films from Australia as well as America, Britian, Japan, India, Europe, etc. If you say, "Hey, they should only vote for American films." Then you might as well just relegate Americans to watching American films, Australians to Australian films, Britians to British films, etc, etc, which is equally as much nonsense. I like seeing films from other countries as much as my own.

Geez, look. It's NOT like telling you to only like Australian films because you're from Australia. I was saying that they should only vote for American films if the award ceremony IS in fact to be an American award show. It's like only judging pies in a pie contest. Now, since it's NOT just an American film award show, then I think that of course, they can vote for whoever they like.

The Oscar are just a group of people who tell us what movies, local or foreign, they liked. And I don't think anyone here can say what movies they, or anyone else, are allowed to watch. That's the real narrow-mindedness.

Seriously... NOONE said that ANYONE should ONLY watch ANY movies. I don't even know where that comment came from. My point was simply, once again, that if the award ceremony is for American films, it should be just that, for American films. Since it is -not-, then it should -not- be just for American films.

Perhaps such an overly global event should be hosted in other countries, though.

[DGMacphee]

Kinoko, I don't think I've misintepreted anything.

Here's what you're basically saying: The Oscars should vote for just American films.

Okay, now here's what I'm saying: The people in the Academy might feel their favourite picture of the year comes from another country.

I think my point is valid especially since the Academy is made of of people from other countries. For example, Geoffrey Rush, Roberto Benigni, and Pedro Almodovar are all in the Academy. Ultimately, it's the Academy's decision. Which is why...

Secondly, it's not like relegating the Nobel Prize to Norwegians at all because the Oscars is a show created by the Americans, isn't it? It's held in America, hosted by Americans and run by Americans... isn't it? If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

... you're partially wrong. What counts is who votes. And from what I understand, the voters are past winners, many of them from other countries (such is the case with the foreign film award).

[Kinoko]

Here's what you're basically saying: The Oscars should vote for just American films.

No, no. I've said if case A, then A. If case B, then B.

[Esseb]

Also, saying that you can't accept the sub-titles is a bit narrow-minded. We don't dub movies in sweden, which means 95% of all movies have sub-titles.
I can assure you that my average movie experience is no less than yours. It sure makes me better in English, though.

I didn't say I couldn't accept them, just that I don't enjoy 'reading' a movie (being dyslexic doesn't help much either).  I don't see how that's 'narrow-minded'?

Now you tell us.

[SSH]

Since most of the major film studios have shareholders from every country under the sun, then ho wdo you define a filom as being American anyway? For example, Fox films are disqualified becuase Rupert Murdoch's major shareholding? The world is globalised, whether people like it or not: trying to close your eyes and say "I'm not listening" wont change that.

Also, since there are plenty of American citizens whose first langauge is Spanish, why shoul dthey be discriminated against?

Interestingly, in Spain, they do dubbing of voices much better than dubbing to English has ever been done: which show that it can be done properly, unlike the Godzilla movies. So why companies dont do this to foreign films, I don't know. I gues sthat subtitles give them a kind of gravitas. Personally I watch lots of English movies with the subtitles on, becuase our houses's soundproofing is rubbish and I don't want to wake the kids....


And Darth, have you ever ewatched the Eurovision song contest. It's perfectly possible to enjot a song even if you don't understand the words. For example: Smells like Teen Spirit!

Oh , and disqulaifying non-english lanaguges means that Lord of the Rings Sindardin songs are out, and Hakuna Matata, and ....

[Andail]

Kinoko, I offered an explanation regarding foreign movies (last page) but I don't think you acknowledged it....

Foreign movies can be nominated for oscars in any category as long as they have been shown in cinemas (or theaters or what you prefer) in america. Like the swedish movie "My life as a dog", which was very succesfull in USA back in the eighties.
The foreign language category also accepts movies which weren't shown on american cinemas at all.

Darth: Well, to me it sounded a bit ridiculing using the phrase "I wanna watch the movie, not read it!" because it implies that people like me (who watch mostly foreign movies, which are all subtitled) can't really "watch" movies.
It just sounded like a thing a narrow-minded person would say, who can't imagine that there are other ways of perceiving information than the ones he's used to.

Of course, in your last post you offered some personal fact which makes it much easier to understand why you don't enjoy reading. I'm sorry for that!

[DGMacphee]

Here's what you're basically saying: The Oscars should vote for just American films.

No, no. I've said if case A, then A. If case B, then B.

But it's already case B, so I don't see what the problem is.

[Kinoko]

It wasn't a problem, but I didn't KNOW the way things were when I first posted, so that was my standpoint.

Andail: Sorry, I must have missed that.

My mum actually doesn't like seeing subtitled movies. It's got nothing to do with her reading ability but she just doesn't like them. She hasn't really seen enough to be used to the reading, and the ones she's seen might have been those awful subtitling jobs with white, no-border text. Even so, it really frustrates me sometimes because I'll have a great movie I want to recommend to her and she just won't see it. I let it go though, it's the way she is. I can't really judge because I've been watching subtitled movies all my life and they're nothing out of the ordinary for me.

Given Andail's comments though, I'd just like to add that seeing as foreign films can only be nominated in a normal catagory after showing in US cinemas, I think this just adds to my point that the Oscars are still very much an American ceremony, for American audiences.

[Esseb]

Of course, that's ignoring the fact that it gets broadcast in most of the world. Unlike, say, the Hong Kong Film Awards, which is a mostly local affair.

I think of it like this: Oscars are for US movies, local film awards are for local movies (plus the obligatory best foreign movie award, which may go to a US movie). Considering the huge amount of US movies versus local productions that get shown in many countries, it seems a much better state of affairs than for both the Oscars and the various local film awards to recognise movies from all over the world in all categories.

[Kairus]

According to what I've seen, it seems that foreign films (including their actors, songs, directors, etc) can be nominated for any category except for best film, US films can be nominated for any category except for best foreign film. That's how I see it.

[dgunpluggered]

According to what I've seen, it seems that foreign films (including their actors, songs, directors, etc) can be nominated for any category except for best film, US films can be nominated for any category except for best foreign film. That's how I see it.

Again, not true. For 2002, The Pianist was a non-US foreign film and was nominated for Best Picture. Plus, it won for it's director (Roman Polanski) and writer (Ronald Harwood), who were both non-American.

Go back to 2000, and you'll see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was nominated for Best Picture and Best Director (Ang Lee). Plus, it was nominated and won for Foreign Language film.

Go back to 1998, and you have two non-American nominees for Best Picture: Elizabeth and Life is Beautiful. Life is Beautiful was also nominated and won for Best Foreign Language film.

These are only just recent examples. There are plenty more accounts of non-US films and foreign language films being nominated for best picture films being nominated for Best Picture.

Okay, enough of this. I decided to look up the offical rules. Here they are:

http://www.oscars.org/77academyawards/rules/rule02.html

All that has to happen is for a film to be shown and registered in Los Angles County. Note in particular Paragraph 8.

Now, look at the rules for the Foreign Language Award:

http://www.oscars.org/77academyawards/rules/rule14.html

Note section V.

So, why the foreign nominees? Where did it all begin? Well, I found this article which talks a little bit about it:

http://www.equinoxnews.com/news/2001/03/29/Features/Foreign.Films.In.The.Oscars-61735.shtml (requires free registration)

So, basically what happened was post-World War II the AMPAS decided to open it awards to a more global scale in order to encourage people to see more foreign films.

I think it's a noble thing to do. But I have a feeling some of you might be thinking, "That's full of crap! USA all the way!" But keep in mind this: Some of the greatest American directors were influenced by all these great foreign films. Scorsese, for example, was heavily influenced by Godard, and it shows in Taxi Driver. Likewise for Woody Allen, who is a Bergman nut.

Not only that, some of the greatest American Films were directored by foreign directors. Midnight Cowboy was directed by John Schlesinger, who was British. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest was directed by Milos Forman, who was from the Czech Republic. That Lord of the Rings Trilogy? Guess what? The director was from new Zealand!!!

So, let's get this straight: If you segregate the Oscars for just American films and American actors, you're suddenly left with this haphazard mix of certain people and films allowed in certain categories. With such segregation, Peter Jackson wouldn't have won last year. And the year before that, Roman Polanski wouldn't have won (and for a film that is one of my favourite World War II films). That's why this whole "The Oscars should be for just Americans" line of thinking is ridiculous. I mean, if you're going to go that far, you might as well segregate all of the US critics awards to their particular state/city. e.g the Chicago Film Critics Awards can only awarded to people and films from Chicago, the New York Critics Awards can only be awarded to people and films from New York, the Las Vegas Film Awards... etc... etc... etc...