Hi there.
One more "am I weird?" thread, forgive me, I just haven't got any other place to ask. Please read it, I know it is long, but it kills me soooo long. One more thing: do not take this as some kind of child-alcohol-sex-related problem. On topic:
(Just a reminder: I am 17 y/o)
I do not drink. I do not smoke. I do not go dancing to discos in the evening. Is this weird? I mean, sometimes, I had problems for example finding new friends, or maintaining some relationships because of these of my characteristics. I simply do not need litres of alcohol in my life, it does not simply taste me. And to drink only to get drunk? I don't know.... I can make and have fun without it, while others seem to can't. Everyday I hear my classmates boasting, how many tequillas they drank last night, and how horribly drunk they got. And who has been the most drunken one, that person is an absolute king. I do not go with them out drinking and thus I spend less time with people, that are otherwise ok. And I get also dissappointed if I meet a girl, that seems ok, nice and so on, but she belongs to this "alcohol society". Therefore, I am single almost all the time (which is pretty ok in my age I think, but compared to the others, it is a bit different) And there a question arises: Am I an asocial weirdo? Is something wrong with me? I have only a few friends and no GF for ages. For ex., sometimes I go to "afterpartys" after some festivals when I go performing with my band, no matter if I want to go to that disco or not, I go there after the show. I do not dance. I only drink water in the corner and watch people having fun. No one understands, that I simply do not like dancing, I can not dance and it is not so much fun for me to dance. And this is only one of many many examples. When I explained why I do not drink to one girl, she advised me to "just close your eyes and drink it fast". But why ? Why is alcohol SO important to people in my age ? Is it just degrading society, or what ?
I am just worried. I like to be with people, but It is not pleasant to me to be the only sober one from the pack. I could be with them more and go out with them more, if I was a drinker. But I am not. And thus, I feel like an asocial when I sit back at home in the evening thinking of tons of good friends and tons of girls out there, that I just kinda "ignore". That makes me sad.
I need a reasonable explanation. I know that there are quite a few of reasonable people here, so I write my problem here.
Explain it to me please. Am I just stupid kid with a reasonless depression? Or?
Thanks for your time guys, really. ::)
Weird? No.
Are you shy, maybe?
Oh and remember that alcohol (or any substance) is not needed for making friends, remember that :)
Alcohol is just another way to have fun.
Nah, start to worry when you'll hit 25 or something.
I'm glad for you that you don't smoke, but is there a reason for you not to drink? Of course, it's easy to say that you don't need it, but it can be a real social booster to make you more outgoing and social in the surroundings of others. I won't say that alcohol is the answe to everything, but it can be a real helper in moderate amounts! As for dancing, I too usually suck at dancing. When sober, I might step out on the dancefloor and hump the air in some extremely akward and embarrasing movements and then just go back to my seat. Again, the alcohol is the soloution for me in this place. If I have a few beers, I'll get alot looser and I'll be the king of the dancefloor.. At least in my own head.
There is absolutely no need to get shitfaced as this is more likely to cause you 10x embarrasment the next day, but a few beers can really help you get going when somewhere social! :) A joint or some small puffs of one can also do the same good, but I'd reccoment not to consider trying any stronger stuff than alcohol before you get alot more confident with your intoxicated self.
But if you really don't want to for example drink, try to read some self-help books on how to boost your confident or something like that! :) You'll never know what'll help..!
My wife has hardly ever touched alcohol and has never finished a whole drink, let alone got drunk and she's a whole lot more sociable than me. I've never much enjoyed getting drunk (and the consequences afterwards even less ;) ) and have only done it say 3 or 4 times in my 32 years of life. But I do like a nice beer, or glass of wine with friends... but most teenagers tend to concentrate on quantity rather than quality.
"Shy" is the most correct word for this sitation, I think. And you are just different from the society you are in; that's all.
You can be sure, drinking not is not worse as drinking (heh, I guess this was a weird sentence, but you got the point). Me and some of my friends are slowly being alcoholics, this is not good.
Yeah really though, I don't fancy drinking either. I just have a hard time stopping it, kind of, it just is a nice way of relaxing. And here I mean having a beer or to here and there. The point however is not in the drinking, but in the social situation that it gives an excuse to. I never get friends at clubs or bars, usually they're met a different way. However, having a pint and enjoying it together makes a good way of seeing other people. Other thing is sports, but that's usually for kids smaller than 18.
I called a couple of my mates, who I know live here now, but whom I haven't seen in 5 yeras, and I suggested we should go drinking sometime. Why? Because it would be relaxing, and something we all enjoy, unlike lan parties or skating or skiing or school or what ever. But don't worry, drinking and smoking won't make you any more social, it'll just make you wayward, and true, these people sometimes have a lot to do with their friends. Yeah, you're not a freak, you just have a wrong image of people, kind of like my friends, but they drink alongside with that :)
EDIT: or I might just well say what everyone wants to say: Yeah, you're a God damn freak, please don't talk to us anymore, I can't let myself be seen with the likes of you!
I bit off-topic, but I think LAN parties would be alot more social if they just took off their headphones :)
I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't "do" drugs, I don't socialise beyond the norm.
Does that make me "weird"? Of course not. I makes me who I am.
The opposite of being "shy" is not "drink/drug/f*ck myself silly". The opposite of being shy, is to be confident, not arrogant. To be outgoing, not reckless. To realise your worth, despite what you think "society" considers acceptable/sexy/cool.
A desire to be accepted is understandable, especially in someone so young. But if, deep down, you realise it means you have to become something you're not, then it won't lead to happiness.
You have to know who you are, before you decide to be who you want to be.
Wow, thanks all of you for replies.
Gord10 -> Yeah, maybe it is something like that. But then, the question is: why do I live in a society that is different than me? I mean, you cant choose classmates, but you can choose friends. Why do I gather friends that are different than me? Everyone chooses society he/she lives in to some extent. That is, why I am worried.
LimpingFish -> Nicely expressed. But there is a catch. I do not feel satisfied when I sit back home. But I am just like that. On one side, I have no problem accepting myself "as I am" and I am glad that it is like that, but on the other side, I am dissapointed because I am not having fun like the others have and I am alone a lot, and that is not good for me.
Hmm..I have not much to say, except that we are much the same I think. I know it's not much help, but I said it anyway.
"I mean, you cant choose classmates, but you can choose friends. Why do I gather friends that are different than me?"
If your friends are the only ones who you managed to be friends and there is no someone like you around you and you couldn't be friend with those indifferent people; then this is the reason.
"Why do I live in a society that is different than me?"
You are not the only person who lived in a society different than them. They develop their own characteristics being independent from their environment, and they move to another society when the time comes. Maybe you meet your own kind of people if you move to another place for school/work, etc.? You know, it is early to decide you are too different from the society when you are 17.
I say: Wow!
If you ask me then you are normal person(as am I if talking about drinking and stuff )! Why I say so? Because I do not drink, nor smoke, nor do drugs! Neither do my friends. I agree that it's hard to find friends, but keep looking for such, of course you may not be popular,but hey you've got brains.
It may be weird to read, but in this young society "It is normal to be abnormal and it is abnormal to be normal!" (If you didn't get it then tell me I'll explain it)
I find drinking till your drunk, smoking or doing drugs unintelligent activities. Firstly, wastes your health and secondly, wastes your money!(and the problems both cause) And if someone finds these kind of activities cool or funny I just must say, there is something wrong with his logical thinking or there isn't any.
Gord, You are probably right, I am just wondering why is it so. But I feel that I can easily change things now, and it is becoming a stereotype that I hear people telling each other how they had fun here and there, and every time I tell myself "Awww, again, I was not there." My problem is not that I do not like all people around. My problem is, that I like them, but I can not maintain closer friendship with them sometimes, because I just cant get used to the "common good things" like discos and so on.
I am sad that I am not there, where the fun is going on. I would like to have fun with them, but instead of that, I sit here and write this.
Lad, Why wow ? I get it with the ab/normality. It is somewhat dissapointing that people that are otherwise all ok are big fans of these "activities". That makes them half-friends. And there a dillema comes.
Man, this is a terrible dillema! I can now really feel, why are people in my age sometimes so mad - it is a wild age in your head.
It's Wow, because you even doubt that your an OK person, and what you do is right.(not drinking and stuff) Sometimes I think that I might have missed out on something, but to be honest if I think real hard, I'm glad that these kind of people aren't my friends.(doesn't mean I hate them of course) I never spend my time with my classmates after school, I keep as far away as possible from those activities. Also I'm not popular but Im respected in my class and that's what matters.
I understand. You feel like you are missing out on something, and because other people seem to have found that "something", you feel that if you become like them then you will find that "something" too.
There is no way for anyone other than you to decide which path is the "right" one.
Will drinking make you more confident? Do you think "clubbing" is for you?
You say you don't like to dance. I don't like to dance, but it's not because of a dislike for the act of dancing. It's because I think people will laugh at me, and I'll look foolish. They probably wouldn't, and I would probably only look like a sweating 6" 3' dude wobbling about on the dancefloor. It wouldn't be the end of the world. But it's very hard to take that first step.
You dislike dancing, because you're not comfortable dancing. Perfectly understandable. It's not a flaw, it's just a lack of confidence.
The truth is, some of the people who are dancing are probably doing so because whatever they have drank/ingested has artificially enabled them to bypass any self-doubt they may otherwise feel.
Being shy and quiet, something which often unfairly labelled "anti-social", is not the result of a defect in your personality.
Conversely, drinking absurd amounts has little to do with gaining confidence. And people who feel they need to do so, possess no confidence besides a facade of false confidence provided by the alcohol itself. The act of getting yourself drunk only requires reckless abandon.
Like I said, this is something which you need to decide for yourself. If you feel drinking will make you more confident, regardless of your distaste for it, then that's up to you to decide. Will it make you more attractive to the opposite sex? Maybe, but probably only because they will most likely be drunk too. Will it enable you to join in with the "fun" your friends are having? Same answer; probably only because they will also be drunk.
Nobody can tell you "Do" or "Don't". There's no magic formula you need to learn.
Do you want to be this person? Is that your definition of fun? If not, then the "something" your friends have is probably not what you are looking for.
At 17 it's too early to start worrying these things; your entire personality can/will change several times during the next 5-10 years.
I don't know about drinking, I just tend to enjoy getting drunk once in a while. Never completely wasted, not to the point where I become another person or start losing memory, just slightly un-sober. It's relaxing and it helps me digest my thoughts and emotions.
I'm rather social and have a rather easy time making friends, but I was a late bloomer and was rather shy and introvert in my late teens. When I was 17 I had never been drunk, and my social life was mostly about playing games with my (strictly male) geek-crew.
My girlfriend is rather strictly non-drinking; she sometimes has a few alcoholic sodas just to fit in the Swedish mentality, and I've only seen her remotely intoxicated once or twice so far. Still, she's a social miracle, and can make friends just by scratching her back. So don't worry that skipping the drinks will make you lonely; in the long run it's all about who you are.
But hey, it's like they say in the bible; wine is wonderful.
Quote from: Andail on Sun 04/11/2007 22:50:21
Still, she's a social miracle, and can make friends just by scratching her back.
That's because she uses her tongue to scratch her back... ;D :o ::) :P :=
I was in a very similar (still am, actually) situation. A lot of the people I know are party animals. The only thing that matters to them is getting drunk, getting high, and sleeping with as many people as possible. They brag about how drunk they got, or how high they got and how the hallucinated.
I'd watch my peers running around late into the night, whooping it up and being wild, and I felt like I should be doing this too. It seemed there was something wrong with me that I wasn't doing this stuff, and that I only had a limited amount of teenage years to enjoy myself, and so on. Being a teenager is hard, and I've hardly enjoyed any of it. There's a lot of pressure on you, telling you who you are, who you should be, and who you will be.
Eventually I learned not to worry about what other people think of me. Drinking yourself stupid isn't something to brag about. They're being very shallow when they brag about it, and you're better off if you're deeper than that.
I would much rather spend an evening talking late into the night about intellectually stimulating topics than to run around getting high/drunk, making trouble and partying.
You should be proud to not be like that, to be different. You sound more mature than many your age, and that's a good thing.
I'm not any different from you. I'm twenty-three now, and I've never been drunk, smoked a cigarette or have been on a big "blast your brains out"-party. Still I got some very good friends, and not all of them are like me, but some. I've never felt, that anything was missing in my life. And don't want to go on long holiday trips in far countries, I don't want to have fivehundred people in my ICQ list. And I like it that way.
If you don't like drinking alcohol, don't do it just to be part of whatever community. Do what you please, and you'll feel much better eventually.
I am 18 and studying engineering, almost everyone i socialise with are HUGE drinkers. I have never drunk and dont plan to it has never even crossed my mind, as with smoking drugs etc etc.
Nothing about you or your situation seems strange to me, but there is DEFFINATELY nothing wrong with you! Know that there are others much like you and that good friends are hard to find in fact i had none till university. Now i think i can claim one :P
Seriously give it time as people mature their views may become more like yours and as you enter new situations you will meet many more people, inevitably some will share your views
P.S i have many friends who accept me as i am and respect me even though i am in the minority as a female non-drinking/partying engineer. Being yourself is the only way to go
The sad thing about this isn't that you dislike smoking and drinking, the sad thing is a society that makes those actions a part of 'normalcy'. And for the record, I dislike smokers and drinkers and associate with either as little as possible.
I agree that it's a bit early to worry about these things at the age of 17.
But I disagree about smoking and drinking being lumped together.
Skipping the cigarettes is perfectly acceptable, I wish I could quit.
But getting drunk once in a while is just plain funny.
I'm 27 now, and looking back I wouldn't trade all the nights spent at parties or clubs for the world. Just don't see them as a goal in life but rather as a very scenic road leading there.
I don't think people who never got drunk have any right to judge others who enjoy drinking.
You don't have to get wasted every time; having a few beers is enough.
All those hilarious conversations I had with friends while being barely able to talk after too many drinks, the countless funny stories we still tell each other to have a good laugh; I'd really, really miss those.
Quote from: Oliwerko on Sun 04/11/2007 18:52:14
(Just a reminder: I am 17 y/o)
I do not drink. I do not smoke. I do not go dancing to discos in the evening.
I am 16, I do not drink because it's against my religion.
I started smoking at the age of 7 (my sister's fault, she stole my grandma's pack and gave me one to shut me up), went on and off between years, I haven't touched a smoke for a year now...at least not yet.
My friends say I dance like a cheap whore, which is okay, 'cause I want to be a stripper/porn actor.
Quote from: Oliwerko on Sun 04/11/2007 18:52:14
And I get also dissappointed if I meet a girl, that seems ok, nice and so on, but she belongs to this "alcohol society". Therefore, I am single almost all the time (which is pretty ok in my age I think, but compared to the others, it is a bit different) And there a question arises: Am I an asocial weirdo? Is something wrong with me? I have only a few friends and no GF for ages. For ex., sometimes I go to "afterpartys" after some festivals when I go performing with my band, no matter if I want to go to that disco or not, I go there after the show. I do not dance. I only drink water in the corner and watch people having fun. No one understands, that I simply do not like dancing, I can not dance and it is not so much fun for me to dance. And this is only one of many many examples. When I explained why I do not drink to one girl, she advised me to "just close your eyes and drink it fast".
Explain it to me please. Am I just stupid kid with a reasonless depression? Or?
Thanks for your time guys, really. ::)
I am single T_T. around my area, I tend to attract girls. Guys don't make any moves on me; likewise I don't make moves on them (if the goverment knew I was gay, they would put me in jail and hit my ass with a wooden rod till it bleeds...and my ass is too nice to ruin)
Whenever someone answers to my 'friend requests' in www.worldofus.org (or com, I don't remember) we end up having cybersex.
I (and this is the nickname my friend gave me) am a virgin slut. Because I'm sadistic AND masochistic
I always feel lonely and it hurts inside. But when I talk to people I'm not shy, I'm loud.
Yet I tend to be by myself, always sit far away from everyone else, an outcast if you may.
people say I act like as if I have MPD (possibly)
Now, let me ask you this,
Am I wierd?
EDIT:People also say that I'm more mature than most kids my age and that I look older than I really am (I started looking 21 at 13). It's also easier for me to talk to adults rather than kids my age
I completely understand. I'm 19 and I get drunk several nights a week. Nobody I socialize with drinks as much and as often as I do. I have next to no social interaction outside school. Even in school I don't really talk to anyone. Everyone knows me but I don't know anyone.
I have a group of friends who get drunk regularly, smoke, and have those BOOM BOOM BOOM music parties. They know me, and I know them, so while I might not drink or smoke, or enjoy the BOOM BOOM BOOM, they're still my friends, and all of us can have fun. I've also accepted that I'm an absurd dancer, and so have they, so it's all in fun when I do dance.
I'm sure your friends don't purposely keep you out of their circle, and there must be at least SOME topics of discussion that don't involve the general level of drunkenness the night before, so you shouldn't have that much of a problem.
Then again, I'm pretty sure that I am antisocial. At gatherings where me and my friends are in a minority, I tend to stick to a person I know (much to their annoyance) for the whole time, and find it troublesome to make new friends in situations where it might not be necessary.
As everybody says:
1. It's too early to worry ;) Wait until the university/job to see what goes on. School is a bullshit place to make friends sometimes when you're unlucky with the school you go to. I do recall when I was 1 year (13 years old) at a music school, I was totally alone. No friends, no nothing in school. Simply didn't fit in.
2. I don't smoke, I don't like dancing, I drink beer, only, and I can't recall myself ever getting totally drunk or anything. But I do enjoy beer.
I met my wife when I was 23. Before that relationships where awful pretty much for me. With my wife we just got along totally (so much that we got married after 3 years! ;D) I just feel that the circumstances were never right, but never bothered too much really. :)
I think it's also important, while defending your rights to keep dry and clean, not to moralise or condemn those who choose to actually drink, smoke and dance or whatnot.
I agree that young teenagers boasting about how drunk they can get are silly and annoying and moreover a danger to themselves.
QuoteAnd for the record, I dislike smokers and drinkers and associate with either as little as possible.
This sounds rather obstinate, Progzmax. So as soon as you find out that a person is a drinker, you quit your friendship, even though that person may have a great personality? You describe them as if they were a different species altogether, and that comes across as a bit judgemental.
Quote from: vertigoaddict on Mon 05/11/2007 05:36:58
I do not drink because it's against my religion.
I started smoking at the age of 7
My friends say I dance like a cheap whore, which is okay, 'cause I want to be a stripper/porn actor.
Whenever someone answers to my 'friend requests' in www.worldofus.org (or com, I don't remember) we end up having cybersex.
That's an...
unusual... religion where porn and cybersex are OK, but drinking isn't... :o
Hahahaha, before I read SSH's post I thought the exact same thing...
I have an interesting perspective on the situation. I don't drink or smoke (mainly because I've never gotten anything out of it when I tried it) but I always seem to be one of the people having the most fun at a party. I think people rely on alcohol to weaken their inhibitions, when you don't really need it that much. It's just stage fright.
I get into a state I refer to as "drunk on people" - I just relax completely and join in all the fun (and start some of it ;)), but a case in point was that the last party I went to (ages ago now, actually), one of my friends got hurt due to drunken activity, and being the only sober one I was able to drive him to hospital without any problems. I also end up carting my friends/brother around, though, so if you don't want to drink and still want to hang out at parties, prepare to be Mr. Taxi.
The last little point I have (have I had any points yet?) would be about peer pressure. I have had most of my mates try to push alcohol to me, when they do I explain I don't enjoy drinking it and most of them respect that. It's no real worry, I've found, unlike what my teachers told me back in high school. Stand up for your beliefs man. If you're having fun now, they must be right for you.
Quote from: Ben304 on Mon 05/11/2007 10:45:02I think people rely on alcohol to weaken their inhibitions, when you don't really need it that much. It's just stage fright.
I can't emphasize enough how heavily I have to object to that statement.
It's like vegetarians who go on and on about how unhealthy meat is. I don't enjoy eating meat because it's unhealthy but because IMO it tastes better than anything else.
It's very similar with alcohol: weakened inhibitions is a neat side-effect, but I drink for the dramatically increased fun-factor.
I think it's funny how non-drinkers always assume all people who get drunk only do it to overcome their shy, reclusive personality. How incredibly arrogant.
If it weren't for the occasional bad consequences after people drank
too much, nobody would object to drinking alcohol in the first place.
Oh. my. god.
Seems like experiences of my lousy life would benefit someone.
Smoking
Well, for a start, I'd say:
Don't start smoking, especially for social acceptance.
I did and boy I regret this (typing with ciggy between fingers atm).
Smoking as such is more of a social suicide than anything else. Imagine your hair, skin, teeth and clothes having tobacco smell all the time... It is not good. Especially since you've used to it and don't feel it. It's like having some 'kick me'-sign taped to your back and you are not sure where. Paranoid.
Imagine the frustration of not having money to buy cigarettes or not having one while it's impossible to go buy some. It is hard. While it's okay if you're surrounded by smokers, you get into fisticuffs with people who don't smoke right away. People who don't are supersensitive and total ass about tobacco smell, with rare exception of some girls who find it somewhat sexy ;)
Anyway, smoking will make you regret it badly in the long run.
I don't mean cancer here, the health matter is only preached by people who either don't smoke and don't actually know a shit about this, quit at some point or got sick by themselves. If you're a smoker, health is least of your worries. For example, it's 2C outside and I'm out of smoke and cash. So, though I'd want to sit and play games or browse forums, I have to dress up, count every penny I have and wander through snow to buy some smoke. It's annoying and well, a slavery to your needs. You really don't want to live like this, atleast I don't. But there's no way back now.
Also, check if your friends are real smokers. I mean, there's 2 types of smokers in the world: the damned ones, and stupid masochistic fakers. Damned ones - like me - will make the reach for a cigarette as their first move in the morning. The fakers are different, because they can live a whole day without smoke, or even longer. Which makes me ask, why the hell do they smoke at all. If I was able to survive a day, I'd quit right away! They're just stupid. Fakers aren't physically bound to smoke, they're just used to do this. Everyone starts as a faker.
So much about smoking. Don't do it.
Drinking
Drinking, in your age, is underdeveloped yet. At your age, or a bit less - I was about 15 - I didn't really understand drinking. Later, I started drinking hard.
At this point, I didn't understand the beer. I mean, why do people drink beer? If I were thirsty, I drank coca-cola. It tasted MUCH better!
If I wanted to get drunk, I drank pure white vodka. If I wanted something in-between, I mixed these two. And had hard regrets next morning ;)
My ability to consume vodka without anything to make it lighter gained me a hardcore drinker reputation and lots of friends who spent time getting drunk. Anyone who can drink like a bull is most welcome in groups like this. I was always invited, and I liked it, so I kept on going. Right into 3-year old period of strong alcoholism. During this time I failed my high school, messed whole life up, disappointed everyone who believed in me, and so on. The wonder of alcoholism is that I didn't care a bit. Another sip made me happy, courageous and strong.
Well, it ended after I met my girlfriend, since she was a heavy drinker too and when together, I had to stay sober to keep an eye on her. But drinking developed... I don't drink anymore, unless there's a cause, but I really like to have a beer sometimes. Infact, I'm sipping one right now. I won't get drunk, because it's quite light and small can, It simply makes some things easier, like before a long night of work, beer does some magic. Improves my mood a bit and makes me less nervous. This helps socializing too.
At your age, kids drink hard and to the floor. You don't really have to take part of it. Neither to feel sorry about it --
It changes. I mean, it really does. You simply have to wait till it ends. But being a totally clean won't do you good either. Give yourself a bit more freedom. So you don't like drinking a bottle of tequila? Don't!
But taking a cocktail that you like will make you worry less and feel better. I don't urge you to drink, but don't deny yourself your youth, you have only one. You don't have to stress yourself in this experiment, by consuming beer until you're nauseous. Simply take a little cocktail of vodka and energy drink and I bet you don't have any problems after that, neither drinking or not drinking.
As my mom always says, you have to drink intelligently: something good and a little. Not some crap and in loads.
I second this. A bottle of quality wine or tasty liqueur with someone special sometimes works really well.
Dancing
Well, I did not dance. In Estonia, there's atleast 2 class-parties a year through whole basic and middle school. I usually did not attend, simply because I couldn't dance. I kept telling myself that I don't like dancing at all. Even though my most favourite music is trance and house, which is known as dance music. Weird, eh?
I didn't dance until I got 20. Then something strange happened. My friend invited me to a rave, until then I hadn't even attended to anything like this, neither gone to a club. The rave was all about drum and bass music, and I didn't even listen to it then. What happened was that we both drank 10 bottles of beer, went there and morning found me with aching feet of wild dancing. I didn't even dance with ANYONE since d'n'b isn't about dancing with anyone, but living your emotions out. I could go to typical european club right now and if I have to dance, well, I'd take some drinks and do it, but I won't say I'd enjoy this. Modern clubs, with pairs of different sex and popular dance music, people dressed up nicely and watching how someone dances don't really feel like freedom to me.
But jungle-dnb parties - even though I can't stand the music much at home, are my first choice If I need to release some pressure from myself. It's a whole different world. No-one cares about what other people do, it's just total freedom and unity in music. You simply cannot stay idle, if WAY TOO LOUD snare rips through your ears and bass makes your teeth vibrate. I suggest simply to try this once.
I don't know if it's of any help to you, but well, that's my story. Don't f**k your brains, most of the symptoms will change in time. But you have to give yourself a chance and some freedom. It's not that you have anything to lose, and all you can gain is new experiences.
Of course, you could stay totally clean. I have nothing against healthy lifestyle, but absolute denial feels somewhat stupid to me.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Mon 05/11/2007 12:27:21
Quote from: Ben304 on Mon 05/11/2007 10:45:02I think people rely on alcohol to weaken their inhibitions, when you don't really need it that much. It's just stage fright.
I can't emphasize enough how heavily I have to object to that statement.
It's like vegetarians who go on and on about how unhealthy meat is. I don't enjoy eating meat because it's unhealthy but because IMO it tastes better than anything else.
It's very similar with alcohol: weakened inhibitions is a neat side-effect, but I drink for the dramatically increased fun-factor.
I think it's funny how non-drinkers always assume all people who get drunk only do it to overcome their shy, reclusive personality. How incredibly arrogant.
If it weren't for the occasional bad consequences after people drank too much, nobody would object to drinking alcohol in the first place.
Mmmm... I can see how it comes across as arrogant. This was not my intent, and I don't mean to judge people that drink alcohol. My point was that not drinking alcohol doesn't mean that you cannot have fun, and that there are sometimes bad consequences when people do drink too much alcohol. My previous statement was far too general to be effective, and was based on the nature of one or two friends who use it as such. I have other friends who are incredibly outgoing without alcohol, and still more so with alcohol.
Wow, guys thanks again, your help is sooo much appreciated.
I think I am starting to get it.
Maybe it is really too early to worry, but I worry about everything a bit earlier ( I worried about the graduation and exams a few years earlier than the others,...), and I have good experiences with it.
There were some comments on judging the drinkers and smokers. I do not judge them. I can be perfect friend with drinker/smoker. Only thing I would not to is to marry a smoker or a strong drinker. But these things have time.
I also dont put smoking and drinking together. It would be a mistake. Smoking is in my opinion a complete bullshit. I have nothing against smokers, I know how easy is to fall down with these things. I am not afraid that I would start smoking. Only If a cigarette was about to save me from dying instantly, I would consider ;D I am joking, I am not starting anytime, I am sure. 100%.
About the drinking - maybe it is not a bad idea to start with really small amounts. Some beer or so may not be so bad idea. Ill reconsider. But that is not my point. Because it is the solution that I am not searching for.
It is true though, that my friends respect me as a non-drinker and non-party-type.
But I am making progress a bit. I went to one of the school partys, and after the end, there were groups that were going to "finish off" to the town. I said to myself: "Now.", and I went with them. Not drinked. Despite this, it was fun.
I guess I have one explanation and two solutions:
I am shy and a bit asocial type. I am not so confident, as some of the others are. (However, some people said to me that I seem to be very confident, I laughed a lot that time).
The solution may be to incerase the confidence by trying to free my mood by a reasonable amounts of alcohol, or to bypass my shyness only by my strong will.
Personally.....Isnt the second one more challenging ?
One more thing. I am glad that I am like I am. I do not want to change it in some serious way. I have my characteristics, and to some extent I do not care what the others think of me. I am just like this. Dot. But sometimes, I just ask myself: "Wouldnt it be easier to be just like the others?". Yes, it would. But it is not. And thus, I have to think, how to satisfy that complains and worryings my crazy brain creates every minute...
You guys are so helpful, thanks again, every one of you, I am starting to understand.
Quote from: Haddas on Mon 05/11/2007 08:35:55
Everyone knows me but I don't know anyone.
Woah that's deep man, put it in a poem or something.
Quote from: Oliwerko on Mon 05/11/2007 16:28:10I am not afraid that I would start smoking. Only If a cigarette was about to save me from dying instantly, I would consider ;D I am joking, I am not starting anytime, I am sure. 100%.
I'm not saying you're as weak as I were, but don't be too sure.
Until 17 I was an almost militant non-smoker. One day friends and I were puffing some small cigars and today it's more than a pack (cigarettes, not cigars) a day. It was a relatively smooth transition and looking back, it went way too fast.
The devilish thing about cigarettes: they are so disgusting that in the beginning you keep telling yourself you could stop any time. Two weeks later, you're addicted.
With alcohol it's very different; it has been for me at least. From the beginning on I was pretty terrified of becoming an alcoholic. Because once you are, there are only two options left: staying sober for the rest of your life or ending up face-down in a drain. Neither is acceptable, and the "fear" keeps me safe from becoming an alcoholic.
I get drunk on fridays and/or saturdays, that's it. Sometimes I loose one or two hours, sometimes not. During the week, I don't have the smallest urge to drink alcohol let alone getting drunk. And even an occasional weekend without drinking is perfectly fine.
It all comes down to controlling the vices and not letting them control you.
But skipping them is for cowards ;)
I tend to disagree that you're too young to worry about these things, especially seeing as most kids your age ARE drinking, smoking, and doing drugs.
Like I said before, I think you're mature for your age. Definately more mature than a lot of your friends. As long as you think things through from cause to effect and think for YOURSELF, you'll be okay. Yeah, we all make mistakes, but it's more important that we learn from them instead of trying not to make any at all.
In my experience, the teenage years are full of superficial expectations. Be yourself, do your own thing, don't worry about what other people think of you.
BTW...
You are with 2 beautiful "babes" in the picture thread. How on earth can you be antisocial or weird social or whatever? You seem to be having a great time, and so are they. ;)
It's great to see that we can discuss this here and that we all share the same ideas.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Mon 05/11/2007 02:00:59
The sad thing about this isn't that you dislike smoking and drinking, the sad thing is a society that makes those actions a part of 'normalcy'.
I agree. I don't smoke or do drugs, and I hardly drink. There's a few reasons for this.
-I like being healthy :)
-I don't like the taste of alchohol, and I loathe the type of people who generally hang out in bars.
-Being rational, I don't enjoy my mind getting all foggy and chaotic. It's enough of that already when I'm sober.
-I'm too concerned with what other people think.
I used to (and still do) worry about what people think of me, but I started to give that up a long time ago, around about your age I think. It's a matter of accepting who you are. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, because they represent the things you don't want to be. It may seem like they're having more fun, but they derive their fun from different things than you might. And they have the advantage that there are a lot more people like them. I can have as much fun building a great game or executing the perfect kill (in a GAME! 0_o) as they have squandering their money away at a bar and making a fool of themselves. The trick is that you've got to find a joy and pride in the things you do. It compensates for not doing these other things that are considered 'social'. You can say to yourself "I did this, and I'm proud of it". You can build some confidence that way. For people who are creative I think this is easier than people who don't really have any hobbies, but still.
Because in the end, what have they got to show for it? Bruises? A headache? Embarrasing pictures? Does that outweigh having
created something yourself, something other people may enjoy? Something you can be
proud of? Let me tell you: It doesn't.
When people ask me to go along to a bar or go do something, and I'd rather hang out at home, or just don't feel like interrupting what I'm doing, I weigh the benefits of it to the question 'Is this what I
really want?' I can suspend my objections for the evening if I can just have a good time with friends and maybe get into some wacky hijinks. I'm fortunate enough to be part of a group of close friends who all share my mindset. They hate disco's and the sort of people often associated with them, they don't smoke or do drugs, they dont really drink a lot, and they accept that I don't drink, so when we go do something I don't have to worry about not fitting in.
Quote from: Ben304 on Mon 05/11/2007 10:45:02
I get into a state I refer to as "drunk on people"
This is what I do aswell. I have maybe a drink or two over the course of the evening, and I can just ride along on the vibe of the more intoxicated people.
So I guess the moral of the story is that you just gotta do what you feel good about, follow your dreams, and you'll find your own crowd. You may not end up living the fullest of lives by society's standards, but at least you did it
your way.
QuoteThis sounds rather obstinate, Progzmax. So as soon as you find out that a person is a drinker, you quit your friendship, even though that person may have a great personality? You describe them as if they were a different species altogether, and that comes across as a bit judgemental.
Yes, I've just about severed a friendship over alcohol because a longtime friend who knew my feelings became a drunk and started trying to get me to drink, too. The reasons for my feelings are a personal matter, however, and I don't really care to discuss them.
Also, I've had people say there was something mentally wrong with me for
not wanting to drink alcohol, and I mean real people that you see every day and think it's something everyone just 'does', like using the toilet.
As I said though, I really won't discuss this further because my feelings are my own on this subject and I was making an observation about (in the very least) people in my own country and how they tend to view non-drinkers/non-smokers. It's a bullshit peer pressure system where people try to drag you down to their level so they don't feel inadequate/like they're doing something wrong anymore. If we're all clones then nobody is better than anyone else, I guess. Or worse.
I've just saw this topic and I must say:
Be my friend! I'm just like you. I never drink alcohol because I don't like the taste of it. And I don't dance either. Sorry I haven't read what all the others said but it's really not anything to be ashamed of. Just do what you like and be happy ;)
Oh, we have now a rather big discussion here, nice.
Nikolas,
:) Well, you are true to some extent, but these photos are very rare. So are these "actions" in which I participate. But, as I said, there is something on what you say...
largopredator,
Nicely said about that foggy and chaotic thinking. I, just like you like to be able to think properly and soberily all the time. I am a bit afraid of myself, of things that I could do drank that I do not do normally. That is the interesting thing. That sometimes when you get drunk, you do things that you do not do when you are sober. Isnt this somehow denying your personality ? I dont know...
However, I do not care much what other people think of me. I care what my friends think of me, but I really do not care what the others think. I am just like this, and I wont change only because someone thinks I am in whichever way "wrong".
ProgZmax,
Yeah, these are problems that come with it. Thats the trouble. That you cant be sure what to expect from those people. But I wouldnt end a friendship just because that person drinks. This is personal though....
Mr. Buckéthead,
Yes, nicely, shortly and perfectly expressed.
It is sad that I could be "more friendly" and have closer relationship to some people, and because of these things in my personality, I just cant. I know that if I say this, these of my friends are maybe not my "true" friends. I have mixed feelings about that. I have a friendship with them, but I see that I could have closer friendship with them, maybe through these "activities", or that "something" that LimpingFish described. But I do not. And that is somewhat weird.
EDIT:
Nikolas, I just recalled something regarding the photo you mentioned. They were "a bit" drunk. That evening I decided to think about it. And I was thinking so long, that I wrote here finally :). So it is...well...interesting. I actually was probably the only sober one from my group....again. Not that I was not having fun, but it was not so comfortable to me that they were all drunk, you know....
Just get a bit drunk. Then you'll know if it's worth it and if you'll ever want to do it again. If you do it you don't have to say you're a freak for not doing it afterwards, and if it so happens that you start understanding how fun people have with alcohol, what's so bad about that? My personal philosophy is to try out everything, mountain climbing, gay sex, alcohol, joints, fish, staying awake marathons, growing beetroot, And from all of this I regret nothing, but after doing it I would regret not doing it before I did. What do you have to lose?
I don't really want to touch the subject of drugs (alcohol included) or dancing. Not that they might not play a part in your so called asocial behavior, but I like to think of people belonging into (very) general two groups. Those who live in the moment, and those who observe the moment.
Those who live in the moment, have a more carefree way of living. They're more social, and can talk to just about anyone. With or without other stimulus, their able to make several friends. These people in a large group of strangers are comfortable with themselves.
Those who observe the moment, are constantly aware of themselves. They're not as social, and have to reach a certain comfort zone with those around them before they can engage in a more carefree attitude. They, generally, have a few solid friends, and everyone else is a shade of friend to acquaintance. These people in a large group of strangers, aren't comfortable, but generally bored. They prefer smaller gatherings with people they know. What you may call shy, they tend to think their on the rim of social circles. Ironically, they can esteem themselves very well.
Now, this grouping is by no way definitive, and most people (if not everyone) can switch from one to another. It's just that, generally, people are mostly living in the moment, or mostly observing the moment. I consider myself to be an observer of the moment. Whether or not this is a true grouping of people, or just a perceived grouping, I know I can see people act a certain way, and be mystified by it. Just as I'm sure some people might not understand the joy I get from curling up to a good book on a Friday night, and not drinking every weekend (or weekday). In either group, just find things you like to do, and people you enjoy, and life will be sweet.
The reason I didn't touch on drugs/dancing, is because I don't think your drug use has much of a bearing on which group you fall in. Dancing might, but I'm not prepared to argue it either way.
-MillsJROSS
It's really amazing how clouded by hatred towards alcohol and the folks who enjoy it some people's minds are. Really amazing. And sad.
Tuomas put it very well.
Drinking isn't biting animals heads off or a sure path to coming to in a hospital bed every other day. It's just something people do to enjoy themselves. Like riding a roller-coaster or watching a movie.
If somebody got beat up by his drunk father on a regular basis, I can understand why they don't want to touch it. But there are uncountable numbers of people whose worst experience was a headache. So please get a grip.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Tue 06/11/2007 23:40:02
It's really amazing how clouded by hatred towards alcohol and the folks who enjoy it some people's minds are.
Yes, but we are specifically discussing the abuse of alcohol as a pastime. In effect, mass binge drinking as social interaction. Anybody who drinks specifically to get rat-arsed drunk
is in the wrong. They are free to behave that way if the choose, no argument, but it is
their definition of "enjoyment" that is skewed.
Social drinking, as in a couple of beers/glasses of wine/snifters of port with friends in an enjoyable atmosphere, isn't the problem here. Nor is "hatred" of alcohol the issue, although people may have, for whatever reasons, deep-rooted aversions to it.
Achieving a level of intoxication, whereby you lose control of your speech/limbs/bodily fuctions, isn't something to aspire to, in my opinion, and certainly would play no part in my social activites.
Something Oliwerko posted earlier; the girl who told him to "just drink it down fast", clearly tells us that enjoying the drink itself isn't the point of drinking in this way.
The point is simply to injest as much alcohol as is possible in the shortest space of time. Flavourless water, if it contained alcohol, would suit these people just as well.
I fully endorse the above.
I don't know what the situation is like in Germany, but in Sweden you'd have to be pretty blind not to notice the fairly unhealthy attitude towards alcohol an astonishing number of teenagers have. It's not about hatred, unless you start believing that these people are somehow evil. Sure, drinking can be fun and the side effects can be avoided by clever people, but not acknowledging the vast numbers of people not having fun as a consequence, for various reasons and on various timescales, is just naïve.
Sadly in the uk it appears that they LOVE their alcohol, and no matter how much money goes into advertising against it, still it's there all the time.
Proble, for me, is not the stupidity, or self destract essense of alcohol, but the fact that drunk people can become dangerous. "Antisocial" behaviour is a bullshit word for young, usually people who act like shit and should be locked away until they can control themselves. >:(
Other than that, to comment on something, I don't think that there is a specific "brand" or "race" or "kind" of people who go to bars, and people should not like them. I like a bar or two, and love my beer. But don't overdo it (generally that is, unless I'm home alone for a month and I stay home and get drunk to be able to sleep for a few hours, but that's totally different and I'm alone, won't be going out, or driving, or hurting anyone but myself, in that short period of time)
I was in a similar situation to you, Oli, when I was in school/college. Basically, I did not smoke and, when I did drink, I enjoyed a nice glass of wine in the comfort of my own home, or a nice organic ale in my garden in the summer. I hated getting drunk and being around drunk people, I hated being in loud pubs where I couldn't hear anything, and I hated going to clubs.
In school, it made it quite difficult to have good friends, as it seems to be for you. I didn't WANT to go clubbing and get drunk on cheap alcopops, when I could be at home in bed, playing RE4 with a glass of wine or a cup of tea, and some snacks. It didn't make sense!
Since leaving school I've met people who are way more like me in that regard. My boyfriend and I, as sad as it sounds, rarely go to pubs and never go clubbing. It's just not fun. We spend our weekends in our living room with games, books, movies and music, our two cats, some wine and lots of good food :)
So, I wouldn't worry about it, you're not some kind of sociopath or something. In fact, I totally think that what you do is far preferable to what almost all teenagers seem to do these days, and I'd rather hang out with you than them!
PS I agree most alcohol doesn't taste nice, but try a nice wine or an ice-cold organic ale... yum yum!
LimpingFish: Agreed. I just wanted to make it clear that there's something in between staying completely sober and getting totally wasted.
I know that most minors who drink don't stop until they have to because their body won't hold in the stuff. And I used to hear from parties my younger sister went to. The person who could swallow the most got the most respect, regardless whether said person threw up all over the place afterwards.
It was different for me; I took the moderate approach when I was younger. I enjoyed being "high" from the alcohol and even more enjoyed watching other people barf on each other ;)
Plus, the next morning I could tell them the embarrassing stuff they did, and all of us had a good laugh, especially me. ;D
So regarding Oliwerko's situation: why not mix the stuff, water it down. I loved Vodka Orange when I was 18/19. It's up to you whether there's going to be more vodka or more orange juice in the glass.
If people are seriously going to mock you or even exclude you just because you don't gulp down liters of 40% pure, you can still leave.
The bizarre thing, Khrismuc, is that in your own way you're trying to persuade him to drink. Why should there be any vodka in his glass at all? This is the sort of thing I've heard from random people in the past, 'oh just drink a little, it's okay! Just have one!'
How about none? Isn't none also fantastically okay?
Quote from: ProgZmax on Wed 07/11/2007 19:44:29
The bizarre thing, Khrismuc, is that in your own way you're trying to persuade him to drink. Why should there be any vodka in his glass at all? This is the sort of thing I've heard from random people in the past, 'oh just drink a little, it's okay! Just have one!'
How about none? Isn't none also fantastically okay?
Sure it is! But only if you actually know what on earth you are talking about. Getting completely shitfaced is nothing I've ever really wanted. I've always, as KhrisMUC, had a very moderate approach towards alcohol. I don't mind people not drinking! Why should I? But don't avoid alcohol just because other people have a retarded attitude towards it. In my opinion, one should try to have a beer or a few and feel the good sides of alcohol instead of just being scared away from all the retards..! :)
Exactly. Though I wouldn't call anybody a retard :)
It's not like you get addicted as soon as you drink one drop. So while not drinking at all is fantastically okay, having a few beers is, too.
We aren't talking about Heroin or stuff like that, so persuading someone to have a few drinks doesn't make me feel uneasy in the least bit.
Heard it before. The whole you shouldn't reject it until you've tried it thing. I have no Freudian childhood crap influencing how I feel towards alcohol, nor do I really give a damn if people drink, but that argument has always seemed so utterly flawed, empty and fallacious to me. I don't see any problem with not drinking despite not having tried, because it's easy enough to acquire second-hand knowledge of it, and make an informed judgment on how you want to act, even without drinking. In fact, I find it far, far worse when people reject, say, a particular genre of music without having "tried" it properly, as it were, because they might be missing out on really great stuff. Alcohol, though, isn't particularly awesome. It's a psychoactive drug, and not a very potent one. It's not even hallucinogenic. Miss that, and I really doubt that you'll regret it on your deathbed.
I enjoy red wine. I really enjoy a fine pint of lager. A Czechish malt, pilsner or budvar, love it, more than coke or sprite. But I despise cider etc.
But the most important thing is, that you don't start drinking because of what your mates look like when drunk and you don't stay away from alcohol only because of what your friends look like when drunk. I mean, if you don't drink because you feel alcohol is a drug, then your reason is the same as why I don't smoke and I accept it. Hell, I accept every reason, but most of them i don't understand, except for this one. Though myself, I try everything people give me, from mushrooms to nailpolisher, if it doesn't kill me. Ok, j/k. But not drinking because not wanting to look like a drunk I cannot accept. And KhrisMUC, next time I'm in Germany, let's have a pint or something that isn't Berliner, I had too much of that on my last visit ;)
Quote from: EldKatt on Wed 07/11/2007 23:09:35I don't see any problem with not drinking despite not having tried, because it's easy enough to acquire second-hand knowledge of it, and make an informed judgment on how you want to act, even without drinking.
Second-hand knowledge? Riiight. Sorry, that seems way more flawed than my argument.
Have you tried chocolate? Sure you have. But do you really think somebody could describe the taste of it accurately enough to satisfy you if you hadn't (since you do know how it tastes)? No way.
Btw, you should be consequent and warn others when you see they're going eat to chocolate. I mean it takes just a tiny nibble and all your teeth will fall out and you're going to die of diabetes.
And about alcohol being a drug: just like any other drug, or chocolate, it's only dangerous if you consume unreasonable amounts.
I readily, immediately accept the refusal to drink alcohol from anyone.
If the person tried it. Because despite what they might think, they don't have any idea of how it feels to be drunk.
Tuomas: You'll find the best beer is down here, in Bavaria ;)
What about not wanting to drink, not enjoying the taste of alcohol, and not wanting to know what it's like when drunk? I'm just not curious. I've never been drunk and most alcohol I've ever consumed in a single sitting is half a glass of wine [I tried drinking it and could barely finish the half I did get down].
The thing is, people say to someone like me who doesn't like the taste of alcohol "Drink Sangria or a mixed drink! It's just like juice!" but I'm also not interested in drinking alcohol, I just so happen to also not enjoy the taste.
So when someone says "why not mix the stuff, water it down." I have to ask "To what purpose is this trying to achieve?" He doesn't want to drink but have him drink anyway?
How many here have rejected receiving anal sex without trying it? Shame shame!
Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 08/11/2007 00:25:15
How many here have rejected receiving anal sex without trying it? Shame shame!
I guess a lot of alcohol and somebody being totally drunk could lead to this. ;)
Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 08/11/2007 00:25:15
How many here have rejected receiving anal sex without trying it? Shame shame!
Never rejected and am curious. People just usually draw back. :P
Suppose someone wants to try alcohol but hesitates because they don't like the taste. Mixing it is the obvious solution in this case.
(And red wine is one of the few alcoholic beverages I don't like. I find it disgusting actually. So if it was indeed red wine, you might consider to try something else. Like a Cuba Libre. Or a Caipirinha. Great stuff.)
I reject getting shot in the face without having tried it. Thus, I'm completely inconsequent and you can disregard everything I've said. No, wait...
the anal sex bit was a joke... get a sense of humor
Maybe I missed the bit where Oliwerko said he was looking to try drinking but I get from his writing that he's not interested:
"About the drinking - maybe it is not a bad idea to start with really small amounts. Some beer or so may not be so bad idea. Ill reconsider. But that is not my point. Because it is the solution that I am not searching for."
Not the solution he's searching for.
Also, I said I'm not interested in drinking alcohol or "experiencing" even mild drunkenness yet you suggest I try another drink. Is there a disconnect I'm not seeing here?
I was joking about your comment. I thought it was quite funny.
edit: I know people who don't drink and i would never pressure them to drink even if i drink beer myself. I respect their wishes. It would be like people who do drugs, there is nothing they could do to make me start down that road.
I ment the last line of KhrisMUC's post
So you didn't want the anal sex bit to also sound like a rebuttal? Not even a tiny bit? Alright. :)
Well, I thought maybe the bad taste of wine sort of confirmed your dislike. That's why I recommended something else, should you ever get curious (again).
This is page four of the thread, do I still have to address exactly the OP's statements?
I'm aware of this threads topic, and I try to stick to it. And I believe I still do.
Domino:
that's the whole point I'm trying to get across: Alcohol isn't like heroin.
And I didn't say I'd keep following people trying to persuade them, waving bottles and forcing shots into their mouths. Which of course I don't.
If you aren't curious and don't want to try, fine. But then don't complain about losing social acceptance.
You don't lose social acceptance if you refuse to play russian roulette or aren't curious about how poo tastes. Because people understand it and feel the same. Refuse to try alcohol and they will deem you weird. And rightfully so, IMO.
(And don't ask me like "do you do everything other people do?". Because I will deem you weird then.)
And just because I'm a stubborn sonofabitch:
I know many people who were like "I don't need a cellphone", or "I don't need fast internet, I just check my emails once a week", or "I don't need a car, there's public transport in my city".
Those people usually have two things in common: there's no way to convince them to try, and they feel stupid for not doing it earlier after they tried themselves.
I wasn't aiming my post at you, i was just saying in general about myself.
I really didn't even read most of the thread until the butt play comment. :)
Anal sex: no, it was a joke, sorry!
"This is page four of the thread, do I still have to address exactly the OP's statements?"
On page three you were still talking to the OP and this is what I'm trying to have a conversation about.
"So regarding Oliwerko's situation: why not mix the stuff, water it down. I loved Vodka Orange when I was 18/19. It's up to you whether there's going to be more vodka or more orange juice in the glass.
If people are seriously going to mock you or even exclude you just because you don't gulp down liters of 40% pure, you can still leave."
What I was trying to ask about was:
"I readily, immediately accept the refusal to drink alcohol from anyone. If the person tried it. Because despite what they might think, they don't have any idea of how it feels to be drunk."
What about if one is not interested in knowing what it's like to be drunk?
If my anal sex immediately put you on the defensive, I'm sorry. Reread my post again and don't read the bit about butt sex and you can see that I'm just trying to have a conversation. Also, you suggest that he should drink diluted vodka and I ask, to what end does that serve? Just to "get it over with" and get drunk stealthily?
I consider my self to be a social drinker though I got drunk once just to see how I would react. I told the stupidest jokes and got rather barstool philosophical. However after four bottles of guinesse I started to feel a tad queesy, so four is at present about my limit. Did the water trick, but still woke up in the morning with a small hangover. Not really fun. Don't let us force you into doing anything you don't want. Been mildly tipsy is fun, but not necessary FOR fun. the hangover isn't and if your not dancing on the bar top doing the Full Monty, that doesn't mean you a "weird asocial"
I've added a smiley to my previous post, especially for you ;)
With butt sex finally out of the way:
I didn't want to sound defensive, I'm merely throwing out arguments for my stance.
Oliwerko wrote about a party where some girl gave him the advice to swallow it quickly.
It sounded like the people considered drinking as some kind of extreme sport, not means to boost the fun. So I told him what I'd have done in his shoes: mix it, enjoy it, get drunk to some extent over time. Find out when to stop, laugh at people who didn't, feel really, really mature and go to bed. Enjoy sleeping very deeply and very relaxed, and in the morning, laugh a bit more at the people who didn't know when to stop because of how they look like and how they touch their heads and moan.
Social acceptance, finding out how funny it is to be moderately drunk, and a buttload of fun! And deep, relaxing sleep! All on a silver platter! I thought it's good advice. Maybe it isn't.
To address what you were trying to ask about:
If you're not interested, then you're not interested. Your loss.
I know dozens, probably hundreds of people who enjoy alcohol on a regular basis. None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health.
I know one guy who doesn't drink alcohol. He's a Muslim from Tunesia, a very good-looking, funny, out-going guy.
I don't know a single person who tried alcohol and never touched it again.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Thu 08/11/2007 02:46:43
I've added a smiley to my previous post, especially for you ;)
With butt sex finally out of the way:
I didn't want to sound defensive, I'm merely throwing out arguments for my stance.
Oliwerko wrote about a party where some girl gave him the advice to swallow it quickly.
It sounded like the people considered drinking as some kind of extreme sport, not means to boost the fun. So I told him what I'd have done in his shoes: mix it, enjoy it, get drunk to some extent over time. Find out when to stop, laugh at people who didn't, feel really, really mature and go to bed. Enjoy sleeping very deeply and very relaxed, and in the morning, laugh a bit more at the people who didn't know when to stop because of how they look like and how they touch their heads and moan.
Social acceptance, finding out how funny it is to be moderately drunk, and a buttload of fun! And deep, relaxing sleep! All on a silver platter! I thought it's good advice. Maybe it isn't.
To address what you were trying to ask about:
If you're not interested, then you're not interested. Your loss.
I know dozens, probably hundreds of people who enjoy alcohol on a regular basis. None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health.
I know one guy who doesn't drink alcohol. He's a Muslim from Tunesia, a very good-looking, funny, out-going guy.
I don't know a single person who tried alcohol and never touched it again.
Hi, I'm sorry but you make no sense to me? You seem confused by people who choose not to drink because they don't like the taste, and you keep mentioning things like mixed drinks in order to avoid the alcohol taste. I've had a lot of people say similar things to me when I say "No, no thanks, I don't drink. I don't like the taste of alcohol." I also don't like the idea of being drunk. I find that drinking alcohol has absolutely no appeal to me. Is this because I just haven't had enough mixed drinks? I simply just don't think this is the case. No amount of alcoholic drinks that don't taste like they're alcoholic will make me ever want to be drunk. No amount of alcohol will ever make me enjoy the taste.
I just don't understand why I have to be drunk or drinking to be fun and socially accepted. You enjoy drinking, I can tell this from every single one of your posts in this thread, but I don't. Would I be less fun than you at a party? Maybe, but I'm happy with myself and that is all that matters to me.
I just don't agree that it's good advice to tell someone who says they don't like to drink to keep trying until they like it, or to drink stuff that doesn't taste like alcohol. I think it's better advice to say "Hey, just be yourself. If you are not the 'drink a bunch and laugh it up' type, then don't try to force yourself to be. This doesn't make you a creepy weirdo, eating houseflies on purpose does."
Also, butt sex will never really be out of the way, will it?
I just don't get what's so special about alcohol. I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all.
Imagine the following dialog:
"I've tried coffee. I like. I've tried sweets. I like. I've tried sushi. I like."
"Have you tried alcohol?"
"ALCOHOL!!1 Nah, I'll never try that!!"
"What, why not? What's so special about alcohol?"
"Err, I have no idea. But I'll never try it!!"
It just doesn't make any sense.
About the taste: every alcoholic beverage can be considered mixed. Whiskey is 40% alcohol and 60% "whiskey-flavored water", if you will.
If you don't like the taste, it's just a matter of finding a mix that you like. I've specifically mentioned Vodka Orange because the orange juice does a nice job of covering the vodka's taste.
You said "No amount of alcohol will ever make me enjoy the taste." The only valid conclusion is that your nose, brain or both are significantly different from the rest of the world's.
You said "I find that drinking alcohol has absolutely no appeal to me."
That's like an Inuit saying "I find that spending a week at a beach in Thailand, lying under palmtrees in white sand, looking at crystal clear, green water has absolutely no appeal to me."
Or like a person who was born blind saying "Being able to see has absolutely no appeal to me."
My point here isn't that drinking alcohol was the absolute paradise, my point is that you simply have no concept of what it's like to be tipsy, so talking about appeal is pointless.
And then again this stuff about you being happy with yourself without booze, quietly implementing that all drinkers were somehow self-conscious.
That's like the most invalid argument EVER.
Either you're tremendously inconsequent, or you've got to stop taking painkillers, drinking coffee, getting a haircut, washing your clothes, even wearing them.
All these make you feel better / less embarrassed / less tired / less cold. Why do you need them if you're happy with yourself?
Alcohol even covers three of those points. It's just another tiny item on a long, long list of things humans do to increase their quality of life.
If logic doesn't convince you, there's still experience.
I've yet to encounter a single person who got introduced to alcohol, kept at it for a while and stopped (voluntarily, not due to money, health or law).
There's a simple explanation: those people are incredibly rare.
Everybody who doesn't live in some freakish community is bound to be surrounded by people who enjoy alcohol. Are they all utterly wrong? Self-delusional? Completely fine and normal, only terribly, deeply wrong about one single thing? All of them?
Oliwerko, Drinking does not make friends. Smoking does not make friends. Sex does not make friends. and if I may add Religion does not make friends. They all make acquaintances. Each trades off one addiction for another. I have lots of friends that don't do any of the above... I on the other hand... never mind. The point is. People need people of all types and genres. They make us who we are. If you're not happy with any of that stuff... Go for it! That's you. That's your gift. That's your wonder... your intrigue... your mystery... Your Power. Go with it. Don't worry about 'fitting in'. I hope you don't watch television?! Go to where your heart and mind sends you. They won't let you down. Hugs.
ps... My fathers family is from Poland. YA!
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Thu 08/11/2007 05:09:57
I just don't get what's so special about alcohol. I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all.
Imagine the following dialog:
"I've tried coffee. I like. I've tried sweets. I like. I've tried sushi. I like."
"Have you tried alcohol?"
"ALCOHOL!!1 Nah, I'll never try that!!"
"What, why not? What's so special about alcohol?"
"Err, I have no idea. But I'll never try it!!"
It just doesn't make any sense.
Have you read anything that the people who say they don't like the taste have written? I have tried many types of alcohol, I don't like the taste of 99% of them. What is so hard to understand about that?
You just imagined that dialogue but please find it in these posts.
"I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place."
Pete and I are very similar. We don't like the taste, we don't like the idea of inhibiting out brains in ways we can avoid. If someone orders a drink and says "This is great! Try it!" we will try it. Maybe it does taste good, maybe it doesn't. If it does, great! There's still that self imposed desire to not inhibit our brains in avoidable ways.
One of the only things I've tried that tastes good is Sangria. HOWEVER, just because it tastes good still doesn't mean I want to try getting drunk or even tipsy. Who the heckfire is saying "I don't drink and everyone who does is wrong!"? Please tell me! You're blowing this way out of whack, man! I'm sorry, but you are incredibly defensive and reading into the tiniest thing. Pete never said anything like that what you're freaking out about.
There are millions of things that don't appeal to me. Eating jellyfish is one of them. I have never and do not see myself eating jellyfish in the foreseeable future, I'm not saying that anyone who has is an idiot. I'm just saying that it doesn't appeal to me. It's not that hard.
I don't like the idea or the chemistry or even the smallest affect it has on the body behind drinking. Now I feel I have to parse this down to the nub, by affect on the body I don't mean liver disease or anything like that. I just don't like the idea of losing even the smallest bit of "control" over my senses. I don't like the taste and I don't like the idea of having my brain inhibited. I'm happy the way I am. Other people can do whatever they want as long as they're happy.
Other people can do whatever they want as long as they're happy. Written twice so you don't think I'm making some sly remark against drinkers.
"I know dozens, probably hundreds of people who enjoy alcohol on a regular basis. None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health."
That's awesome, I never said everyone who drinks is an alcoholic or constantly broke or ruining their lives. Defensive.
"And then again this stuff about you being happy with yourself without booze, quietly implementing that all drinkers were somehow self-conscious."
Very defensive again.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Thu 08/11/2007 05:09:57
I just don't get what's so special about alcohol. I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all.
Imagine the following dialog:
"I've tried coffee. I like. I've tried sweets. I like. I've tried sushi. I like."
"Have you tried alcohol?"
"ALCOHOL!!1 Nah, I'll never try that!!"
"What, why not? What's so special about alcohol?"
"Err, I have no idea. But I'll never try it!!"
If someone would say they don't like the taste of coffee, would you tell them to mix it up with something so they won't be bothered by the taste?
Probably not, you would give them something else to drink.
Why is it that if someone doesn't like alcohol, people seem to go all "ah man, just a few glasses won't hurt".
My girlfriend doesn't drink, and it's unbelievable how many people seem to be bothered by that. People really seem to be offended sometimes, and think you're no fun if you don't drink.
It's almost enough a reason for me to stop drinking. (The puking last weekend is another good reason ;D)
If the length of my post bores you, read the final paragraph, because that's where I'm really trying to make my point.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Thu 08/11/2007 00:11:30
Second-hand knowledge? Riiight. Sorry, that seems way more flawed than my argument.
Have you tried chocolate? Sure you have. But do you really think somebody could describe the taste of it accurately enough to satisfy you if you hadn't (since you do know how it tastes)? No way.
Btw, you should be consequent and warn others when you see they're going eat to chocolate. I mean it takes just a tiny nibble and all your teeth will fall out and you're going to die of diabetes.
And about alcohol being a drug: just like any other drug, or chocolate, it's only dangerous if you consume unreasonable amounts.
I readily, immediately accept the refusal to drink alcohol from anyone. If the person tried it. Because despite what they might think, they don't have any idea of how it feels to be drunk.
Sorry for my lack of polite rhetorical finesse (I have better things to do than sugar-coat my opinions in a forum discussion with some guy), but I quite simply think you're completely missing my point. Your own chocolate analogy serves my purposes pretty well. Yeah, you're right. I can't experience chocolate fully based on a verbal explanation. Without tasting it. Same with one of a million random exotic foods. But why the hell should I? Does it matter that much? Why should I insist that everyone I meet try chocolate?
And by extension try everything else that they haven't tried.However open-minded you think you are, there's an enormous number of things that you are rejecting, consciously or not, because life is literally too short to try everything. You have to choose what interests you enough to try. And sure, you have every right to feel sorry for those who miss out on things that you feel are really great, but you must acknowledge that they're just making their own choices. Unlike with chocolate (the effect of which is purely one of taste) the effects of alcohol are observable. This is what I mean by second hand knowledge. It affects your emotions (often inducing euphoria, but occasionally negative emotions as well), it reduces inhibition, and lowers coorination (articulatory coordination as well, making your speech sound slightly more stupid).
And just to make sure we're clear here: I have tried it. I have been drunk, although never hung over (and this, I'm afraid, is not something I'm planning on
trying). And yeah, it was fun. Lots of fun. The side-effects I had predicted based on my second-hand observation were present, though. Weighing the pros and cons, I believe I prefer going to a party and having just as much fun, with the added benefit of precise articulation and the ability to outsmart people in an argument, as well as the knowledge that my brain is causing me to enjoy myself without any
chemical amusement aid (as Frank Zappa described it). All these benefits are benefits that I were fully aware of even before
trying. Now, don't get me wrong, I do not regret having tried it. But, as it turns out, I realize that I was kind of right from the beginning.
As you say, a person who has not tried alcohol have no idea what it feels like to be drunk. But I also realize that a great number of people (in fact
most people) have no idea what I get out of the structural awesomeness of a Bach fugue, the balanced expression of a Beethoven symphony, or the acute communication between the members of a jazz trio. Nonetheless, I really don't mind or care if some random person chooses not to go with me to a concert, or refuses to sit with me for an evening listening to records. Because in the end, I have no idea what it feels like to stand in a roaring crowd at a football game, nor would I go out of my way to try it, so really,
who the hell am I to talk? We all make our choices. We don't all make the same ones. That's it.
I can totally accept that people don't like to drink, and I like to think I'm not the kind of person who coaxes and urges whenever a person declines a drink or a beer.
My reaction was just aimed at those who consider drinkers inhibited and socially challenged people, in need of substances to become extrovert. This is true in many cases, but it's also a prejudice.
Some people just prefer the feeling of slight intoxication, because of how it affects your creativity and inspiration.
The people I usually hang out with in the weekends and go to pubs with are very socially skilled individuals, they easily connect with strangers and have an easy time finding girls (when they're not in relationships, of course). Still they - just like me - like to drink regularly. And they're normal, decent, intellectual people.
QuoteDrinking does not make friends. Smoking does not make friends. Sex does not make friend
Wrong wrong wrong!!! Okay, it doesn't have to make a
friend but often adds so much that it makes up almost whole befriending process. And I have too much cases in my life where I got drunk with a stranger, and ended up singing together, drinking more and being friends after that night.
Drinking:
Ancient method to release psychological pressure and lower our natural fear of other people - which comes from us being carnivores thus being a danger to each other. Alcohol helps a lot to socialize, make first contact. Before countering someone new, let's say - at a bar, everyone takes a drink or two first. Of course, being totally drunk often reverses the effect.
Smoking:
In every new school, job, jail... wherever, the smoking corner is where smoker-newcomer gets to know others. That's the very first thing he/she has in common with others in the corner. I know this very well, because other smokers are usually first people I get to know and have chat with in new school or job. Smoking together is
highly social activity. You join other smokers, light up... "Oh, the new guy. What's your name?". The one that asked will usually be your best buddy in the long run.
Sex:
Arguable, not sure. If you're good at it, well...
But for a taste, you have to drink intelligently, as I said. After you have washed down a cocktail or two, you shouldn't have any problems with taste anymore ;)
Anyway, the worst that can happen if you drink, is being a star. A star in a way where everybody tells you what you did next day. And you - unfortunately - don't remember a thing. It's funny, but more frustrating than fun.
Healthy lifestyle is strongest excuse for ignorance. My philosophy allows and courages to try everything atleast once in a life, unless it's injectable (strong drugs!) or follows with criminal punishment. Well, or is gay.
Well,
Chris,
Why cant you accept that something just do not appeal to someone ? It is irelevant what it is, if beer, vodka, coffee, cola, sitting on a beach or playing computer games. I was intending to find a solution to my problem, that is not actually to start to drink. Read my first post. If I started to drink, I would not have that problem, thats right. I could start and the problem will be gone. BUT: I was searching for some solution that is not actually the alcohol itself. I do not say that having a beer or two once a week is killing you, nor do I say that it is unacceptable. But why cant you just understand people who JUST do not want to drink ?
I do not want to upset or offend you. But that stuff about mixing it with something else and so on is just like that "close your eyes and drink it fast". You are writing exactly the things that my peers advise me to do. That is not the right solution for me. It is a solution, easy one, but I just do not like it. Because of this, I wrote my first post. Because of advices like yours.
JimmyShelter - I really like that coffee mixing situation.
MrColossal:
I was under the impression you hadn't tried anything apart from a half glass of wine.
And my most recent post was directed at Pesty. The answer to yours is above hers.
I didn't freak out and I didn't feel offended. I sat calmly in front of my monitor and thought of examples to base my arguments on. If you feel that's defensive, that's fine.
"None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health." That wasn't meant as a defense against some hidden attack, I simply wanted to point out that it's easy to drink responsible and there aren't any downsides in that case. IMO.
JimmyShelter:
If someone didn't like coffee, I'd probably tell them to drink tea or Coke instead. It's about the caffeine in this case, and there are alternatives, just like with alcohol.
EldKatt:
Rejecting alcohol isn't like rejecting one thing among millions, it's more like rejecting a huge group of things. Like rejecting meat or exotic fruit or whatever. I chose chocolate because it tastes unique and everyone has tried it.
Life might be too short to try everything, but it isn't too short to try alcohol. It's available everywhere. I get your point though.
Chocolate contains sugar which is bad for your teeth and your blood. So telling me about the bad side-effects of alcohol will only strengthen my point.
Plus you're preaching to the choir; losing some self-control can be fun! It's boring to always be in complete control.
And btw, everybody gives up control. Get in the passenger's seat of a car, bam, you just lost a good deal of control.
I didn't know you did try; your previous post sounded like you never did.
I'm not sure if I get the meaning of your last paragraph, are you comparing something very few people enjoy to something practically everybody enjoys?
Final note on this topic:
After a few lengthy posts directed at people who never tried alcohol, suddenly everybody did try it and all I wrote was in vain... Well.
Andail&InCreator: seconded.
Oliwerko:
There's no obvious solution to your problem. The advice I gave you was a purely practical one: drinking slowly with lots of juice won't make you barf and enables you to stop in time. So it actually isn't quite like "close your eyes and drink fast" which will make you barf and hit you like a hammer.
If you want to socialize with people who will only accept you if you drink, there's no other way. So either start drinking or don't socialize. I'm afraid it's as simple as that.
But I guess you already knew that when you opened this thread.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Thu 08/11/2007 15:06:08
Rejecting alcohol isn't like rejecting one thing among millions, it's more like rejecting a huge group of things. Like rejecting meat or exotic fruit or whatever. I chose chocolate because it tastes unique and everyone has tried it.
Life might be too short to try everything, but it isn't too short to try alcohol.
You do realize that I could just as well say that rejecting jazz isn't like rejecting one thing among millions, it's like rejecting a huge group of things? Or
life may be too short to try everything, but it isn't too short to try jazz!
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Thu 08/11/2007 15:06:08
I'm not sure if I get the meaning of your last paragraph, are you comparing something very few people enjoy to something practically everybody enjoys?
Well, if you're making the argument that
music is something very few people enjoy (which also feels to me like a rather biased statement to make), then I suppose I am. I then continued by comparing it to spectator sports, which is perhaps somewhat more popular, in a sense, than Bach. But I fail to see how popularity is relevant to the issue. Feels like a kind of ad populum argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum), though not quite...
Eric and I are Legion. We are of the same mind.
Seriously though, I asked him to include me in the post he was writing because frankly I'm lazy and he was already writing a reply, so I was all "Tell him that I agree with everything you say!" and so he did. Just because it didn't come directly from me, and just because you weren't directing your comments at him, doesn't make his post any less legitimate.
I think this whole thing is pretty silly. People have different tastes and different opinions about things. I'm not going to try everything, I'm not going to like everything. I love anchovies on my pizza, but I can understand why people wouldn't like them or wouldn't even be willing to try them. Why can't you be the same about alcohol? Nothing you will say will change my feelings about the subject matter. I don't want to be inebriated. Ever. I don't want to experience it, it doesn't seem like it'd be potentially fun, I don't think I need it to be socially accepted.
I reject the potential effects of alcohol without trying them, yes. Because I've seen other people get drunk, I've been around plenty of drunk people, and I don't want that for myself. I don't think that people who do drink are bad, alcoholics, or whatever you seem to think I think. I don't think I'm better than them, either, not in the least. I just don't want to be drunk. I don't want to "have a buzz". I am not the type of person to enjoy this sort of thing. Sorry, Charlie, Pete just isn't that kind of girl!
Also, the reason alcohol is "special" is because it has effects that are potentially dangerous, even with a slight buzz. Nobody's ever been arrested for driving under the influence of coffee, I'm just sayin'.
Quote from: Pesty on Thu 08/11/2007 20:31:06
I reject the potential effects of alcohol without trying them, yes. Because I've seen other people get drunk, I've been around plenty of drunk people, and I don't want that for myself. I don't think that people who do drink are bad, alcoholics, or whatever you seem to think I think. I don't think I'm better than them, either, not in the least. I just don't want to be drunk.
I find this part a bit confusing. Cause you seem to imply that whoever drinks gets drunk. You repeat the word "drunk" 2 times, as well as aoclholics, drink are bad. 4 negatives (even if you use them in a different way, and yes I know how to read) in one small paragraph.
"... I reject the potential effects of alcohol... becasue I've seen other people get drunk..."
Just to comment that 1 glass of wine, for example, won't get you drunk (unless you have some health problem in which 1 drop of wine will send you through the sky, and I know a person who has that. Pretty weird. Half a glass of wine and she was totally wasted.
totally)
We are still talking about trying, right? Cause with my kids the usual thing is to... "try and see. If you don't like it, by all means spit it out". Not that I've offered them drugs or anything, but this is what I try to do. On a personal level the only thing I wouldn't try is drugs, because of the immediate hook.
Of course people around 17-20 or something, don't know how to drink and just get drunk which is a different issue, right? I'm not suggesting, by any means that the OP should start drinking to get accepted, or anything simmilar, nor I'm saying that one cannot have a good time with no drink, no smoking, no nothing. Just that, in general, the idea "if you don't know what it is, you've no idea what you're missing", stands true from what I see.
Hey Pesty, you're only a bit cranky because you don't drink. Take a look at these cheerful fellows!
(http://www.nettravel.cz/Data/Foto/1188195/1024/Irsko-Dublin-Guiness-7117.jpg)
I do like the taste of Guiness. If I were to drink beer, that would be my choice. Because seriously, look at those seals!
Naah, Guinnes is too thick for my taste. It's good, but I don't like the consistency of it.. Beck's however..! Zaowee!
To clarify: I never said I didn't drink, and I never implied that people shouldn't drink. I also never implied that all people who drink do so to become drunk.
But we have to realise that a fairly large majority of young people (18-21) apparently believe that you drink alcoholic beverages specifically to become drunk. It obviously wasn't a great night if you can still remember it in the morning.
"Oh, I drink because I like the taste of beer. Mmmm...beechwood aged." Okay, fine. Try this non-alcoholic version of the same beer. "Nah. They never taste the same.". To be honest regular beer and non-alcoholic beer taste identical to me. Alcohol, or rather Ethanol, is more or less tasteless, so it can't be adding anything to the flavour of regular beer, can it?
From wiki:
"A non-alcoholic beverage is a beverage that contains no alcohol. Such drinks are generally drunk for refreshment, or to quench people's thirst."
Hmm. I see. And alcoholic beverages are drunk for what purpose, then?
The truth (and I use the term loosely) of the matter is that people drink alcoholic drinks because they enjoy the effect of alcohol. They like the buzz. The mellow light-headedness you get after a few beers. And I have absolutely no problem with that.
But taste only enters the equation when it conflicts with the persons pallet. I do drink a cold beer for refreshment and/or to quench my thirst, since the taste can be pleasant. Of course, I'd just as likely reach for a bottle of botanic water. I don't drink wine because I don't like it's flavour. Rum has a perfumed aftertaste that reminds me of...well, perfume. Chilled Cider can be refreshing, and I like apples in general. Guinness has a tang not unlike liquorice, which I am also partial to. Regardless, I don't drink in any great quantity simply because I have no desire to.
So when somebody says "Just drink it down fast", it's fairly obvious that all they want to gain from the drink is the alcoholic content. It could taste like castor oil, and it wouldn't matter.
Does drinking alcoholic drinks add to your "fun"? Conversely, could that "fun" also be achieved with non-alcoholic versions of the same drinks?
If you answer the latter "no", then, regardless of how you feel, you drink alcohol because you enjoy it's effects. You may as well be drinking liquid ass, if you could work past the taste.
This is not a judgement of people who "drink" for the buzz, nor a condemnation. People smoke tobacco because it settles their nerves, or triggers a conditioned rush of endorfins. People smoke weed, because it mellows their brain. Fine, dude, whatever snaps your canastas.
I don't drink for the buzz. I've never smoked anything, exotic or otherwise, and have no desire to. Am I missing out? (hint: there is no right answer to that question).
EldKatt:
I'm perfectly aware that "rejecting a huge group of things" can be applied to many subjects.
You said "However open-minded you think you are, there's an enormous number of things that you are rejecting, consciously or not, because life is literally too short to try everything."
What I meant: organize the enormous number of things in groups. The number of groups won't be that enormous. Alcohol is one of those groups, so there's enough time to try it.
You could say the same about jazz, but I don't get the point. I wouldn't argue if you said everybody should try jazz. Why not? There's enough time.
The ad populum trap is dangerous and I tried to avoid it. I'm surprised that nobody mentioned it earlier.
However, my point wasn't "everybody does it, join in", my point was "everybody does it, 99.9% don't suffer bad consequences -> drinking responsibly is harmless".
Pesty:
You made an uninformed judgment and you're going to stick to it. I get it.
Since you've mentioned DUI: crossing a street can get you killed, so walking is potentially dangerous.
And from what I know, a slight buzz is at least as dangerous as not vacuum-cleaning your room for one week.
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Fri 09/11/2007 05:54:50
You could say the same about jazz, but I don't get the point. I wouldn't argue if you said everybody should try jazz. Why not? There's enough time.
Exactly, and everybody should try it! Ain't nothing so perfect as a dim room, a bottle of fine expensive red wine, some Horace Silver on the background, your girl by your side...
Though I prefer a nice glass of beer, a frosty one. I'm sorry. I was going to say something with a point, but then I started thinking of Pilsner Urquell or a Kaiser one and got distracted. That's what beer does to you.