Hey, I've been playing guitar now for almost 6 or 7 months, and I'm getting better at it.
I'm a straight up metal head. Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Pantera...
I've been learning Metallica songs for now, but enough of that. I came to ask if maybe you have some techniques that you yourself use that might be able to help me?
I'm working on sweep picking at the moment. I got it a lot better, but only 3 string sweeps. I learned by playing the intro solo to Metallica's Fade to Black (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzK_EVul6dQ). I'm having trouble still though, mainly with my fingering on the frets.
I'm also having a hard time getting harmonics and slides. The first verse of Master of Puppets by Metallica is killing me with the slides. >.<
Also, I can't seem to find any songs that are semi-easy to play, that I can actually learn all of. Maybe it's me, or maybe my tastes, but I find myself always looking up metal songs I can't play yet, or songs with a tempo of 200 or higher...
So what is your take on this?
Work on the Petrucci exercise. That'll help your speed and accuracy immensely. Always play with a metronome, and don't play faster than you can play with accuracy--then slowly push the boundaries to expand this.
I moment of thread hijacking...
I've been thinking of learning how to play the acoustic guitar. But I don't really want to pay for guitar lessons. Anyone know the best way to learn how to play without pay? lol
Also I don't have a guitar and I don't even know the type of guitar I should look at if I were to even consider this.
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 16/09/2008 03:20:09
I moment of thread hijacking...
I've been thinking of learning how to play the acoustic guitar. But I don't really want to pay for guitar lessons. Anyone know the best way to learn how to play without pay? lol
Also I don't have a guitar and I don't even know the type of guitar I should look at if I were to even consider this.
I find electric to be easier to play than acoustic, but then again that's my style. :)
I'm teaching myself right now. You can easily learn chords and scales on the internet. It just takes practice.
Quote from: Gregjazz on Tue 16/09/2008 02:27:38
Work on the Petrucci exercise. That'll help your speed and accuracy immensely. Always play with a metronome, and don't play faster than you can play with accuracy--then slowly push the boundaries to expand this.
I don't have a metronome, but I can probably find an online app for that right?
Oh, and John Petrucci is a beast. XD
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 16/09/2008 03:20:09
I moment of thread hijacking...
I've been thinking of learning how to play the acoustic guitar. But I don't really want to pay for guitar lessons. Anyone know the best way to learn how to play without pay? lol
Also I don't have a guitar and I don't even know the type of guitar I should look at if I were to even consider this.
Buy a cheap second hand acoustic guitar to try it out. Electrics are nice and in some cases easier, but every guitar player should start on an acoustic.
As far as lessons go, I'm self taught and if you're really into learning, it's easy to pick up guitar on your own. I took about 3 basic lessons, learning a few basic chords. I'd ask a friend to show you some chords, then just start learning to play every song you know. Then when a song is too hard, come back to it.
R4L, Greg is right about the speed thing. You shouldn't play any faster than you can play with accuracy. I do find, though, that if a song is to hard to play at that fast speed, turn the speed up a little and try playing at a much faster speed for 30 minutes, then go back to the slower speed. Playing at a faster speed can force you to learn some movements.
And time. Time spent playing is the only way to get better. Scales are great, but just playing those same riffs over and over again will make it easier for you to learn other songs.
Quote from: Gregjazz on Tue 16/09/2008 02:27:38
Work on the Petrucci exercise. That'll help your speed and accuracy immensely. Always play with a metronome, and don't play faster than you can play with accuracy--then slowly push the boundaries to expand this.
Oh you mean this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evTTHS9hwvU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evTTHS9hwvU)
We had a great discussion over this at another forum. Here's the link. I started a ahredding contest, where people would do excercises for a certain amount of time and report their progress in the forums, as a learning journal . If you choose to read it through, there are some brilliant tips for everyone, and you'll also know how I failed and went to acoustic nylon shredding, you know, flamenco and stuff. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46419 (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46419)
Basic finger practise can get you really far in just one week if you do them properly, and remember to keep the speed down. It'll get faster in time.
Also, @ Ryan, you'd want to perhaps tell us what kind of music you want to play. There's no use practising if you don't have a goal. So basically, if it's just to make the girls cry at bonfires, basic chords, perhaps some melody at the same time is cool, plus you have to know how to sing. If it's about picking, like the, say, "While my guitar gently weeps", it's really easy to get the hang of it with tabs found on the internet. Though personally I wouldn't do that. www.8notes.com covers most chords pretty well with some variations and has also some brilliant tips. I usually use it to study the flute, but it's good for checking the random chords that just pops up while playing Opus One or something similar.
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 16/09/2008 03:20:09
I've been thinking of learning how to play the acoustic guitar. But I don't really want to pay for guitar lessons. Anyone know the best way to learn how to play without pay?
I've learned a lot from Justin Sandercoe. He has a free acoustic guitar course at http://justinguitar.com/en/AA-000-LessonIndex.php.
I had a "guitar for dummies" dvd that was cheap off amazon and that was quite useful to get me started!
I first bought an acoustic guitar about 5 months ago, and recently bought an electric guitar. I prefer the melody I get from an acoustic, but the electric is easier to handle and play, and less of a strain on my fingers if I've been playing for a long period, as my fingers has not built up enough resistance yet. (Calouses)
My one tip though, is keep your chord holding nails short, as you need to use your fingertips for that chord action!
As for playing metal music to start with, that sounds a bit too fast and complex to begin with. Although I intend to play various style of music when I can say "I play the guitar!", I started off with simple campfire style songs, and I'm now trying indie type songs. When I can change chords fast enough, then I shall attempt Metallica speed songs! I do find learning lots of different songs at the same time to be more beneficial than just sticking to one song until I've perfected it.
Quote from: Tuomas on Tue 16/09/2008 16:06:12
There's no use practising if you don't have a goal. So basically, if it's just to make the girls cry at bonfires, basic chords, perhaps some melody at the same time is cool, plus you have to know how to sing.
Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on that one. Pretty much just music I can play at a campfire to draw in the ladies (haha if only it were that easy). But yes, something mellow for sure. I guess I'll look around for a used guitar whenever I'm near a pawn shop or music store.
If only it were that easy? Man, we were at a rock festival last summer. I had a guitar with me, and we passed it around. Some played some songs, others sung. People went to sleep and new people came around. In the end, everyone was drunk, and this guy showed up. All he did was sing some sugar-sweet songs that no-one knew, not even very well, and he didn't even sing all that well. The guy was average looking, but he had some feeling in his singing, and most of the girls around us started crying. Me and my girlfriend started laughing. Anyway, after the first song he had two tear-eyed girls leaning to him, asking him to play more. It was just so funny.
After all, the guitar was created on planet Zargosch in the mid 1600s in order to increase the rate of reproduction. Its sound was created as something seducting, something the zlobargh could use to make an impression on zlaborghs, just as with birds, that sing to each other.
Ryan: for that, all you really need to learn are the chords G, D, E, Em, C, Cadd9, A, and Am. You can play almost any mellow, campfire song with those. Admittedly, that's all I can play still. I'm struggling with barre chords.
I hate bar chords! >.<
I didn't mean to sound like a noob at guitar. I can play, I can play faster songs, just not as good as the original artist.
I just wanted to know some exercises or something that some of you might have made up?
I'll have to look into the Petrucci exercise.
Well as for finger practise, there really is no made up excercise. You'll notice, that Petrucci varies between chromatic and a basic minor scale. Running through a scale is the best way, in a sense. You'll get the sense of scales and basic progression while still developing your alternate/sweep picking.
My sister once tried to teach me a few chords.
Then after a few minutes she took the guitar off me and told me to give up.
Apparently I'm 'just not musical'.
Tapping is a pretty nifty technique.
Funeral For A Friend - Roses For The Dead .. that intro is the perfect for practicing, if you're interested.
Quote from: Eigen on Thu 18/09/2008 20:43:18
Tapping is a pretty nifty technique.
Funeral For A Friend - Roses For The Dead .. that intro is the perfect for practicing, if you're interested.
Actually I've been practicing tapping on the Eruption solo, One solo, and Lip Gloss and Black intro solo. :)
Barre chords are horrible.
And R4L, check out some of the technique articles over on www.ultimate-guitar.com
Really helped and continue to help me. =]
Quote from: [evol] on Thu 18/09/2008 23:12:26
Barre chords are horrible.
And R4L, check out some of the technique articles over on www.ultimate-guitar.com
Really helped and continue to help me. =]
I've been there so many times for tabs and not once have I checked for techniques!
I've been trying and failing to teach myself guitar for many years, and was in a band, albeit briefly, a couple of years ago. I can play most of the common chords, but my fingering is shit and for some reason I actually seemed to get worse at one point... I still pick up and play once in a while but I gave up trying to improve...
I'm the same with swimming... I can float, and I can move my arms about in the desired manner, but I just don't seem to move forward.
One Metallica song I did nearly get quite good at was 'Nothing Else Matters'... Try it if you haven't already. Once you've gone through the tabs a few times it's not actually that complicated. And it's all based on a few simple chords.
Quote from: Stupot on Fri 19/09/2008 01:49:27
I've been trying and failing to teach myself guitar for many years, and was in a band, albeit briefly, a couple of years ago. I can play most of the common chords, but my fingering is shit and for some reason I actually seemed to get worse at one point... I still pick up and play once in a while but I gave up trying to improve...
I'm the same with swimming... I can float, and I can move my arms about in the desired manner, but I just don't seem to move forward.
One Metallica song I did nearly get quite good at was 'Nothing Else Matters'... Try it if you haven't already. Once you've gone through the tabs a few times it's not actually that complicated. And it's all based on a few simple chords.
Yeah I have my bad days as well...
I can play Nothing Else Matters. It's not as hard as some people think, and it's good practice for finger picking.
Sorry to go a bit O/T.
After reading a few musical topics, I wonder how many self-taught people there are. Is it just that people don't want to go "official" and have regular lessons?
I don't say that if you don't have lessons you will suck. I am just a bit biased into the lessons "side", because when you do it regularily with a qualified teacher, he can show you some tricks (of course, you can learn them from interned/dvds, but these are first-hand and you directly communicate and can ask him/her) and most importantly - the teacher watches/listens how you play and can help you avoid bad habits, which are VERY bad in music. I have a few self-taught friends and I can tell you that if they are not very talented, they play much worse than the less-talented "lessons" ones.
I just want to know if it is just me and my personal opinion bias, or why does the majority of people self teach them. Or is it just guitar?
@Oliwerko:
When i first started playing i had one or two very basic beginner lessons from a friend, and then i just started teaching myself for a few months.
I then started getting lessons and my playing picked up dramatically.
I would not be able to play to the level I can today if not for these lessons.
-Blake
I know people who are have been taught officially and I know people who have pretty much taught themselves. While I agree that the lesson-taught players tend to have more theoretical and technical ability, it is the self-taught players who tend to have a certain flair, a bit of imagination.
The problem with having lessons is that you learn the rules of playing the guitar... some people take these rules a little too literally and their music, though technically sound, becomes essntially a masterclass of all the rules they have learned.
But wheres the fun in that?... Some of the best guitarists are those who taught themselves, and they are the ones who broke the rules, pushed the boundaries. They are the people who made the likes of you and us WANT to pick up a guitar in the first place...
I say if someone really feels they need a kickstart then a short course in the essentials of guitaring would hurt (I kind of wish I had done that)... but once you have the resources to teach yourself you are free to bend the rules and use your imagination... and make some awesome music in the process.
As far as I know, most guitarist are self taught. Take Steve Howe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiA1XBXAE6U) for example. You don't need to have a teacher to be great, but, I think in order to make great music, you need at least a basic understanding on the methods and the theory, and that goes to all of the instruments out there. I was fortunate enough to be taught by a good teacher privately and fairly cheaply, and hes playing influenced me greatly. For example I'm able to compose and play music, that I didn't even know was possible when I rammed those power chords back in the days. Steve Hackett (listen to the solo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ksoDr3Ip_w&feature=related) is another good example of one of my favourite guitarists, who are self taught.
One reason I'm teaching myself is because lessons here in my area cost a little too much. It's $45.00 every 2 weeks to get lessons.
My friend Matt, his dad is self taught, been playing guitar for 22 years, and he can most certainly shred on a guitar. He has a music myspace if anyone is interested.
Well, we have an elementary music school here and lessons there are pretty cheap. Did you mean private lessons? These are expensive here too. I am a graduate of this school and I can say only the best about the learning methods. I know a few people who taught themselves and the main problems were that they were in a rush to play ("bah, technical exercices? piss off, man!") and they tried things they could not play and so they developed some nasty bad habits.
They were sometimes able to play something they wanted, but it was very "shallow", you could hear that the player has not gotten under the skin of some very basic habits and conceptions of music. Having a teacher, you can pretty much completely avoid these problems.
It is not that fun, I admit. But in the end, you end up like a competent musician with complete understanding and years practice, not a self-taught player that on the first sight plays good, but on the second lacks some practice and experience that is gained by the "boring" side of playing. (Of course this applies to everyday people, not to some extreme musical talents. The clarinetist in our band was able to play an extremely hard piece on a completely different type of flute he uses to play in two hours. I was playing this flute for years and it still took me two days to learn the piece. He plays flutes of all kinds and clarinet like a god, and if that is not enough, he plays violin too. And he is like three times faster with his progress than regular people.)
Quote from: Oliwerko on Fri 19/09/2008 13:13:25
Well, we have an elementary music school here and lessons there are pretty cheap. Did you mean private lessons? These are expensive here too. I am a graduate of this school and I can say only the best about the learning methods. I know a few people who taught themselves and the main problems were that they were in a rush to play ("bah, technical exercices? piss off, man!") and they tried things they could not play and so they developed some nasty bad habits.
They were sometimes able to play something they wanted, but it was very "shallow", you could hear that the player has not gotten under the skin of some very basic habits and conceptions of music. Having a teacher, you can pretty much completely avoid these problems.
It is not that fun, I admit. But in the end, you end up like a competent musician with complete understanding and years practice, not a self-taught player that on the first sight plays good, but on the second lacks some practice and experience that is gained by the "boring" side of playing. (Of course this applies to everyday people, not to some extreme musical talents. The clarinetist in our band was able to play an extremely hard piece on a completely different type of flute he uses to play in two hours. I was playing this flute for years and it still took me two days to learn the piece. He plays flutes of all kinds and clarinet like a god, and if that is not enough, he plays violin too. And he is like three times faster with his progress than regular people.)
Oh I meant private lessons. That's all that there is around my area.
I went to the guitar shop in my area today, and my friend Matt's dad works there, and he heard me jamming out on some Metallica, and we started shooting the shit for a bit, and he said that I could come around anytime and get some free lessons and trade Metallica riffs. :)
Go bohemian rhapsody.. man I love this song.
I tried to learn recently but really couldn't get down chord changes. It would always take me a few seconds to think where my fingers need to go and another few seconds of placing each finger individually on each string. So with a 10 second gap between chords there wasn't much melody going on... how can I practice speeding up this changes and stop my chords from ringing out all clangy every time I strum them.
Are chords the best way to go to try to learn or shall I choose a song I like and try to get myself playing the tabs. I've tried both and neither seems to sound very good, as expected at such an early stage.
Quote from: magintz on Sun 21/09/2008 23:00:58
I tried to learn recently but really couldn't get down chord changes. It would always take me a few seconds to think where my fingers need to go and another few seconds of placing each finger individually on each string. So with a 10 second gap between chords there wasn't much melody going on... how can I practice speeding up this changes and stop my chords from ringing out all clangy every time I strum them.
Are chords the best way to go to try to learn or shall I choose a song I like and try to get myself playing the tabs. I've tried both and neither seems to sound very good, as expected at such an early stage.
Well, like you said, it's an early stage. You got to practice a lot. Sooner or later, your fingers get used to it and you'll be playing easier and faster.
I thought just like that at first, when I was trying to play a simple A, to D, to G, and back to A. I just couldn't do it, but if you keep trying to do it, it starts to get a lot easier.
yea, everyone goes through that. I thought the same thing, now it's pretty easy to go between them.. At least the basics.
Once you know where your figners are supposed to go, just keep trying and trying. I used to sit and talk with friends or watch TV while I played. Once you can do it without thinking about it, it's pretty smooth sailing after that.
Hehe, I'll grind like I'm levelling an MMORPG :P
I've pretty much self taught myself, too. I don't want to be commited to something like guitar lessons. I would feel like I HAVE to play regularly, and that's not what anybody wants, right? I wanna play when I wanna play and that's that. Oh, and then there's the obvious money issue...
I'm lucky enough to know quite a few really talented guitarists, including my father, who always has some tips to give me. Though he's self taught too so his advice isn't always "by the book".
I always tell people who want to start up with guitar that they should start off by learning a few basic chords, then after that move to learning some songs they like. Yeah, some people would say this is wrong and that they should start off by learning theory... But really, who wants that? They'd smash their heads through their guitars soon enough and lose interest. I know I would... It's more fun starting off by learning to play a familiar song.
After that they should look into playing from tabs, fingerpicking and other more advanced stuff. I believe that at that point they will feel that they've learned a nice bunch of things about the guitar. This is the point where they decide wether that's enough for them or if they want to take it one step further. If it's enough, fine. Everyone's happy. If not, they most probably will want to look into some guitar theory and learn the "real" rules of the guitar. At this point the learning will be less forced, since they know some things about the guitar already, and actually want to learn the theory.
That is my view of how it should be done, because that's pretty close to what I've been doing and I'm happy with it.
Edit:
Oh, and to those wondering about which guitar to get. If it's acoustic you want, I am going to recommend the same guitar I have. Why? Because it's cheap and it's awesome and I'm biased. I've been amazingly pleased with it. In its price range it's probably the best guitar I've played so far.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_cd60_sb.htm
There is also an electro-acoustic version of the guitar, which is the one I have. It's twice as expensive though and I've hardly ever had any need for the electronics anyway. :P
I can't be bothered to read the whole thread (sorry), so keep that in mind when reading this post. I must say that having a teacher is pretty much a necessity when learning (in my experience anyway) he can correct your posture, and point you to new directions needed to learn to play. And introduce you to new music.
If you insist on being self-taught, practice on ear-training, try to get your absolute pitch as accurateas possible. Mine isn't, and that makes playing off of what you hear quite difficult. So this is good advice for anyone learning to play any instrument, but if you're self-taught, it really helps you figure out songs you hear on the radio. And it willl also in the future help you to figure out musc you hear in your head.
Some other unrelated tips:
* CAGED. Learn these chord shapes as they are your guide to all common chord shapes all along the neck.
* There are several sites with all the scales you'd want to know, first stick with the simplest: pentatonic. And learn how that fits in with the barre chord shapes on the neck, it helps your ability to improvise while accompanying (comping) instead of strumming boring whole chord shapes.
* I fully agree with the tip to practice to a metronome, you could even count the beat (1-4) of all you do (like walking), that'll help you acquire an absolute sense of the beat.
* Try to learn some music theory, starting with how the chords are made up (learn about the root note, the third, the 7th , etc.), and how the chords themselves relate to eachother (learn about the 1-4-5 standard (the blues) then try to understand how this compares to songs YOU like (which aren't blues, I take it - Slayer isn't so well known for their genteel blues playing).
* I also agree a bit with the tip to start with an acoustic, but if you want to play metal, an acoustic is a very original approach, so you'd want to own an electric even before you get to the ability required by your taste in music. Even though you don't know enough to make a well-informed purchase (you acquire new preferences along the way, so you might want a singlecoil guitar having bought a humbucker one)but you can play your electric without amp as well, it'll be really soft, which your neihghbours will love you for, oh and don't fall into the trap of "Slayer has 100W Marshalls, so I'll need at least 50 watts to keep up with them" (as if 50w is hal as loud as 100w!). You can learn all about small amps at http://www.ax84.com a cool site(you might find posts there from this cool, wise guy named DutchMarco ;) But anyway, you can buy the guitar already and not an amp, which I would reccommend to a starter, as you'd probably be mickeying about making cool sounds with the amp instead of practising.
Pablo - You have pretty much expressed the opposite of what I was talking about.
I see the advantages in this approach, and I understand that they are really big. You don't have to play when you don't want to. You don't have to play songs you don't want to. And you don't have to learn boring theory.
However, I am still on the other side. With regular lessons, yes, there are times when you have to go have a lesson and you don't really want to because you have better things to do. But when it's regular, it assures that you are playing "all the time", not just once in a while. You don't lose continuity. Yes, you have to play songs (well, it takes some years before you get to some real songs with most of the instruments) you don't want to. But these songs were written by experts and will aid you with your technical skill.
And the theory? Yes, it's totally boring. But there's no sweet without sweat and the theory is the sweat in this case.
Now it sounds that self-teaching is the best. You have said that people shouldn't start by learning theory. I don't know how it is on other schools, but on my school I started basic note theory along with the practical lessons (two different teachers - the theory was general, and the teacher teached only flute) and there were two lessons of flute and one theory per week. It didn't hurt that much. The theory was pretty much separated from the practical side. The "useful" theory was usually explained by the flute teacher.
Another things that can hurt when starting by playing a familiar song are bad habits. When you begin to be interested in the real rules you mentioned, it can be already too late. There are plenty of bad habits you can develop when playing (on any instrument, I guess). I had some big problems later just because of some bad breathing habit developed when beginning. If there was no teacher, I wouldn't be able to play many, many songs nowadays. This kind of "returning" to knowledge you should already have to play properly only after you are interested is pretty unconvenient in my opinion.
I completely understand your approach. It's more joyful and free. When you take the "book" one, however, I think you will be more "complete" musician. Not just here and there "amateur" knowledge (Don't get me wrong, I don't say that self-teaching is bullshit and only schools are "good", I just know many people that can play, but have some kind of weird half-knowledge).
I have to admit that the "book" approach has one disadvantage. You have to be really patient sometimes. It's not that fun all the way compared to self-teaching. On the other hand, you learn all the theory needed, all practical knowledge needed and avoid bad habits easily. I know much more people that gave up learning to play that were self-taught than people who quit the school. When you graduate on the school, you ARE a "complete" musician. I am not sure you are when you self-teach yourself.
Maybe self-teaching is better for people that know that they would crash their heads through the guitar, like you said?
I actually do agree with all your points about the advantages of being taught by someone else and learning theory and all that stuff. What I wanted to point out is that starting off with theory is just completely awful and nerve wrecking (and not just in guitar playing), even though theory is very important
I think it's better to start off with the fun part, actually playing stuff, because that is what people want to do with guitars. This is for the sake of getting to know your guitar and getting comfortable playing it, becoming friends with it. After you have done this you can dig deeper into the theory because at this point you're also bound to be more motivated to learn it, unless you want to be stuck with the simple skills you have developed by learning playing random songs.
About the bad habits you mention... I assume you mean stuff like how you're holding the guitar or how your wrist is positioned. I really don't believe that there is one or a few specific ways of holding/playing the guitar. One should, and will play however one finds comfortable for oneself. I believe the guitarists will notice these bad habits if they actually start bothering them. Or at least read about them somewhere, you don't really need a teacher for that.
Quote from: Oliwerko on Mon 22/09/2008 19:45:12
When you graduate on the school, you ARE a "complete" musician. I am not sure you are when you self-teach yourself.
Now, I have to disagree with this. A school degree doesn't make you any more of a musician than someone who hasn't graduated from such a school. If you know how to play and you do it constantly and understand how music works, you are a musician. And that's that. You wouldn't tell a painter that he's not a real artist if he didn't go to an art school, would you?
So, to sum up what I at least wanted to say: Theory is important and you should learn it. But you shouldn't start off by learning it. That just kills the spirit of playing and enjoying music.
Heh. I love how people are bitching about barre chords, yet talking about doing intricate tapping! Heh.
I say learn all about chords - why barre chords work, how you need the 1st, 3rd, and 5th to make a chord and how you can add elements to barre chords to make them different chords (ie the 7th, 9th, etc.)
Practice your barre chords!
Bt