Well it's been like almost a year now since I graduated with my useless degree. Anyone else got a computer science degree and is struggling to land a decent job in your field? Me working at Fry's Electronics doesn't equate to being "in the field."
I love selling computers.
Customer: "Well I want a computer that's really easy to use. User friendly, I can go online, e-mail, word document, use Microsoft Office... oh ya and uh Windows XP Home Edition, that means it comes with Microsoft Office right? Ya so I saw this computer on ad for $199. What do you think of this Lindows machine?"
Me: *Dives into a pile of flat-panel monitors and hopefully kill myself while drenched in LCD liquid.
-Pizzaman
I also studied computer science, and the only job i got was moving crates around in a old warehouse :(
/me is thinking about studying software engineering for university next year
Hmm, this doesn't look good. :\ However, I was told by my school counsellor that although the computer software market is currently at a decline, it will go up in the next five years or so because of the increasing amount of technology. So cheer up; it'll get better. :D
And if not, I guess I'll have to fall back on my second career choice: architecture.
During the recent decline across hi-tech, the whole workforce has got older as they lay off newbies first as they are cheaper to lay off and they have less value to the company. Thus, along with hiring freezes, there has effectively been little new blood in many companies for 4 or 5 years. This is the case at my compnay, and it makes it flipping har to go up a grade or get leadership roles as there is no-one more junior than you are, even though you have a bunch of experience. So, I hope and pray they start hiring youngsters again soon, simply to offset the top-heavyness of the company.
Quote from: Dart on Tue 01/02/2005 12:09:06
... I was told by my school counsellor that although the computer software market is currently at a decline, it will go up in the next five years or so because of the increasing amount of technology...
Sure...
In the 60's they said that people would live on Mars within ten years.
And that math teacher told me he would e-mail my grade tomorrow. That was a month ago.
Wandering Stranger; "Say Jet, what are you studying?"
/me crawls in a dark corner of the school cafeteria, in a very anti-social way.
Quote from: Jet X.L. on Tue 01/02/2005 13:52:59
Quote from: Dart on Tue 01/02/2005 12:09:06
... I was told by my school counsellor that although the computer software market is currently at a decline, it will go up in the next five years or so because of the increasing amount of technology...
Sure...
In the 60's they said that people would live on Mars within ten years.
And that math teacher told me he would e-mail my grade tomorrow. That was a month ago.
Wandering Stranger; "Say Jet, what are you studying?"
/me crawls in a dark corner of the school cafeteria, in a very anti-social way.
Well, I was thinking of becoming a Datanom, could be computer science over there. I don't know, it's the hardware part of the job. Anyway, My counsellor told me I shoulnd't become that, because the market will be overflowing with them soon, and how right he was. It seems there's only work for them as pizza deliverers and the likes at these times :/
/me wonders what the hell he's gonna do now.
Great.... I'm almost done getting my Computer Science degree. I thought about also finishing my art degree from my school. Then perhaps I could make games.
Wait, I already do that.
Well, get paid, anyways...
Yes, yes! Computer software market is dead! All of you, drop your computer related Majors! They will be no use!
/me hopes that the market will be clearer by the time (and if :( ) he graduates
There are plenty of jobs out there, it's just that the majority of them require 2-3 years experience, which isn't much use if you've just graduated.
Still, loads of companies have graduate entry schemes, it's just a matter of persevering, keep applying for jobs, and don't be afraid to move to a different part of the country to get one.
Quote from: Dart on Tue 01/02/2005 12:09:06
/me is thinking about studying software engineering for university next year
Hmm, this doesn't look good. :\ However, I was told by my school counsellor that although the computer software market is currently at a decline, it will go up in the next five years or so because of the increasing amount of technology. So cheer up; it'll get better. :D
Three years ago, my assembly language teacher told me, "The economy is down right now, but the computer market will bounce back up once you graduate in 3 years."
And also there's this fear of outsourcing
-Pizzaman
Of course increasing techonology means that three IT or programming jobs can be reduced to one.
And that one job can go to the huge swathe of prefectly credentialled workers in India who don't demand as high wages.
You see, I was wise and made one of my degrees an Economics one, as to be able to be gainfully employed tell CS graduates why they don't have a job...
Well, I thought I'd add a note of happiness to this thread.
I live with my two best friends in the UK.Ã, We graduated with Computer Science degrees in July 2003.
By September Mike had himself a job in a school working as the IT technician (not programming, but he's always been into the hardware).Ã, Not hugely high paying cos it's in a school, but it's getting him the experience he needs to move into a larger company :)
By January Nikki also had a job.Ã, She's doing web programming for a company not far from here, and is being paid a good graduate salary with a pay rise due again in a month or so :)
And me?Ã, Well, I've been working for my parent's business, which may sound weird, but it involves a good mixture of web design & programming, bespoke applications for foolish clients (people who find copying files from one directory to another too much of a challenge and need big buttons to click instead!) and also a lot of Office customisation.
In fact, all of the people I know who've graduated recently with Computer Science degrees have found jobs related to their degree which they are happy doing :)
Unlike my sister and her partner who last year graduated with Psychology degrees and have failed to find anything they want to do and are now stuck living with our parents!Ã, :-\
So, it's not all doom and gloom :)Ã, Don't give up hope just yet!
Takara.
Here are a couple of things you could try if you haven't already done so.
- Use a head hunter to help get you to interviews. He/she will help you refine your resume and send them to people loking for people to hire.
- Try doing some independent gigs. Here is a good place to find some Dice.com (http://dice.com). Here is another place ut they don't pay as well http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/default.asp. There are others as well but this one is pretty much geared to IT.
- Have you spoken with consulting company or temp companys? They earn their keep by supplying peole for specific projects.
- Volunteer for an open source project. That should get you some points for experience and may even lead to a paying gig.
You have to remeber that in the software and tech industries things change fast and employers are interested in what you can do and not what school you attended or what degree you have. That's all minimum requirements. The advantage of not having much experience is that you are mallable, hardworking, and find grunt work interesting. Get on a project that can use some of that stuff and you'll be on your way. Of course if you are lazy, inflexible , and arrogant then you may be working at Fry's for a very long time ;).
Quote from: RickJ on Wed 02/02/2005 04:41:34
Of course if you are lazy, inflexible , and arrogant then you may be working at Fry's for a very long time ;).
Ya, I already quit Fry's about 2 weeks ago.Ã, Thanks for the advice RickJ (not sarcastic).Ã, I am pretty hard working, I find sitting in front of the computer and staring at code creating something is invigorating.Ã, Ok well amusing.
I've only done self projects like 3D Tetris using DirectX.Ã, That is also another reason why I am making an adventure gameÃ, using AGS.
-Pizzaman
Hehe, I hope you didn't think I was implying that you were those things. Slackers usually don't make it through engineering or computer science so I assumed you were not. My comment was, as you surmized, just a pathetic attempt at humor.
Hang in there and I'm sure something will come your way.
I hope it does pick up again in 2 years when I graduate from my CS degree. Before I went in, people were saying that there were plenty of computer jobs, but I guess times change. The thing is, I am about to start 2nd year at Uni and I feel I've hardly learnt much. I passed 1st year with decent marks, but I'm still not that confident... must be all those smart nerds who know all the languages that discourage me.
Quote from: RickJ on Wed 02/02/2005 05:49:28
Slackers usually don't make it through engineering or computer science...
That's because they all come to
the dark side the Arts and Humanities. Come, slack with us and know the joys of slackage!
(Hey, I'm only half joking. About 25% of Engineers and 10% of Science students at my school can't handle the stress, so they switch faculties after first year and become Humanities students)
I like the way I know people who have 25 hours of classes and lectures a well in Engineering, whilst I'm technically doing more than full time study, yet only have 15 hours this semester.
But I'm only half silly humanities. Double degrees are fun this one degree can mock the other.
Quote from: DragonRose on Wed 02/02/2005 05:59:49
Quote from: RickJ on Wed 02/02/2005 05:49:28
Slackers usually don't make it through engineering or computer science...
That's because they all come to the dark side the Arts and Humanities. Come, slack with us and know the joys of slackage!
(Hey, I'm only half joking. About 25% of Engineers and 10% of Science students at my school can't handle the stress, so they switch faculties after first year and become Humanities students)
At my school about 60% drop to business or something. You must go to an easy school. ;)
Well, the engineers also switch to science, and they both switch into kinesiology, commerce, health science, and social science. Humanities (my faculty) just gets the most.
Quote from: DragonRose on Wed 02/02/2005 05:59:49
Quote from: RickJ on Wed 02/02/2005 05:49:28
Slackers usually don't make it through engineering or computer science...
That's because they all come to the dark side the Arts and Humanities. Come, slack with us and know the joys of slackage!
(Hey, I'm only half joking. About 25% of Engineers and 10% of Science students at my school can't handle the stress, so they switch faculties after first year and become Humanities students)
Heh, I used to do Computer Science. Now I'm doing Archaeology. Need I say more?Ã, ;D
(actually, its technically Science, but its more like Art/Humanities)
Strangely enough, where I work they're desperately trying to hire programmers, but are having great difficulty finding the right people. All the applicants seem to be either typical 'geeks' with no interpersonal skills, or nice people who just aren't technically competant.
If you can come across as being somewhere in between, you shouldn't have too much of a problem.
I'm gonna be a high school teacher, and in Sweden there's quite a lack of teachers, which will even deteriorate the next five years. I don't worry much about jobs.
It's interesting that so many AGS:ers are computer scientists...I'm aware of this being a computer game community, but still, I mean...hm.
Frikkin' geeks!
Well I guess I was lucky I got with a good company rather quickly, however once i left them I was looking for a job for AGES so I know what its like... and nearly all of them as said above do ask for 2-3 years experiance.
You pretty much have to rely on yourself and get your cv and details about yourself out there, i regestered with several agencies, plus online websites like the once mentioned above, as well as doing freelance work to get some work to show off, to begin with it was slow but after a while I had calls coming in quite often for interviews , bear in mind your normally up for interviews with potentially hundreds of others. I would definatly make sure your cv is proffesionally geared towards the job you want, as that is what they look at , and they may not look at past the first page, so the layout can be critical.
Also programming always seems to be geographical dependant, there are very few jobs in my area for example, and apparently tons in CJs... I was once offered a job in scotland, and i live down in oxford.
On the good advice front... don't be afraid to apply for jobs which ask for experience you don't have.
They're asking because they want people who are competant, if you can demonstrate that you're skilled even without the experience they're still going to be interested. This of course requires a well written CV so your skills are obvious. Also, whilst you may not ideally suit the job they're advertising due to lack of experience, they may have something else suitable.
Takara.
..or the people who hire don't know how to turn on computer at all!
At least where I live, key figures behind IT companies (personnel workers or simply managers) are only able to read email or find pr0n. They don't know what they really need, so they trust papers.
Papers...
You may be a Mozart nowadays, but if you have no paper where it's written, no one lets you near the piano.
Of course, much depends on yourself.
What I have learned during my short life is - getting a job where you want - through Internet goes like this: you seek for the place, but instead of applying CV and waiting (often forever), you just pick up the phone (or even go there) - ignoring all the requirements you don't have - and charm the employer with your confident and pragmatic speech. This is only way it works. And may give instant results.
Sometimes the manager isn't too exited about getting through all those received applications/cv's too, especially if there's someone standing in front of him with this "want me to work for you? let's get the work done!"- attitude. Why bother?
Well, let's see...
I am 27 now, graduated with an average of 97% at the computer college I went to in 1996, and to this day I am still looking for a programmking job, since all the places require you to have at least 2 years experience.
My question is: How the heck do they expect you to build up experience if everyone wants people with experience? Can't they just give guys a break?
Alumni networks is your key to getting the job of your dreams.
The people who graduated your class a couple of years ago, and found a job then, are by now probably getting promoted, or looking for another job. In either case, there's an opening that matches your qualifications exactly. If your predecessor did a good job, they're probably quite keen to hire someone from the same school and same program.
Also, get a graduate degree. The difference in jobs available to you when you have a Master's compared to with just a Bachelor's is staggering. Try to find a different grad school from your university, and you can double your alumni network.
It's all about networking...
Boy am I glad I jumped ship from Computer Science to Web Design. I had been going to UMass Dartmouth from 2000-2002 for CS until I saw that graduates weren't getting crap for jobs, and my CS classes had about 30 people in them, growing year by year, instead of shrinking as is normal. I finally decided on Web Design in early 2004 and am not regretting it yet. :P
Quote from: InCreator on Wed 02/02/2005 21:21:52
What I have learned during my short life is - getting a job where you want - through Internet goes like this: you seek for the place, but instead of applying CV and waiting (often forever), you just pick up the phone (or even go there) - ignoring all the requirements you don't have - and charm the employer with your confident and pragmatic speech. This is only way it works. And may give instant results.
Sometimes the manager isn't too exited about getting through all those received applications/cv's too, especially if there's someone standing in front of him with this "want me to work for you? let's get the work done!"- attitude. Why bother?
That might work with a few employers here and there if you're lucky, but in general if you phone them up they'll just ask you to send in your CV; and if you actually go along to the company office, they'll likely regard you as arrogant and tell you to get lost.
Quote from: Pumaman on Thu 03/02/2005 19:11:28
Quote from: InCreator on Wed 02/02/2005 21:21:52
What I have learned during my short life is - getting a job where you want - through Internet goes like this: you seek for the place, but instead of applying CV and waiting (often forever), you just pick up the phone (or even go there) - ignoring all the requirements you don't have - and charm the employer with your confident and pragmatic speech. This is only way it works. And may give instant results.
Sometimes the manager isn't too exited about getting through all those received applications/cv's too, especially if there's someone standing in front of him with this "want me to work for you? let's get the work done!"- attitude. Why bother?
That might work with a few employers here and there if you're lucky, but in general if you phone them up they'll just ask you to send in your CV; and if you actually go along to the company office, they'll likely regard you as arrogant and tell you to get lost.
I disagree.Ã, I've just started a new job after a rather long job search, so I'll offer my 2 cents.
The trick is to get noticed by the guy with authority to hire you.Ã, Generally you want to skip over the HR department altogether to speak to this person.Ã,Â
You phone him and ask whether there's any opportunities for employment.Ã,Â
He says "No but if you send a resume we'll keep it on file."Ã,Â
You send the resume.Ã, Then you phone back.Ã,Â
"Hi I spoke to you last week about future employment opportunities with your company and was wondering if you've had a chance to look at my resume?"
"No I haven't...let me take a look now.Ã, I see that you have some decent experience but there aren't any openings at the moment."Ã,Â
You call him again a month later:
"Hi I spoke to you last month about the possibility of employment with your company.Ã, You told me there wasn't anything at the time and I was wondering if anything new may have opened up."
And you repeat the next month.
The process kind of sucks but you are slowly making an impression on the guy.Ã,Â
When a job opening does develop he'll remember you, review your resume, and give you a call.
*reads topic* Oh em gee! All is doomed for me, a poor computer science major!
*realizes she's also an English major* Oh ho! Something to fall back on!
*realizes that she doesn't want to be a teacher* Crud.
Heh, it's always terribly annoying to feel that your choices of career or study must be guided by the current market state. As corny as it sounds, I want to follow my heart in choosing my course in university and in the work area. It's a real shame that Computer Science majors are having trouble finding work.. I am thinking of going that direction myself, but nothing will probably stop me once I make the choice.
As for the interview tips, those may just come in handy later ;)
PS. How's the physics-scientists market doing? :D
Pysicists might have a better shot, since there's not many physics students left [prompting recruitment drives in many countries]. Too many students saying "this looks hard, and I don't see an obvious job", but if there continues to be a dearth of graduates, that means there may well be places opening up in the teaching positions.
And anyway, programmers are a dime a dozen, we need more physicists. Do physics!
I considered physics... but I chose CS (and engineering) instead.
Maybe I should have chosen physics. There were only two new physicists the year I started, compared to ~50 CS people.
Here's the problem, we CS majors have. At least in my school, a lot of majors like Physics...where the graduating physicists are in the single digits, start out with many more. Where do the many more go? Well, it would make sense for them to go into areas where the class requirements are similar, but the workload is, perhaps, not as hard.
CS and Physics, at least initially, share a lot of classes together...so when people realise that maybe Physics isn't for them they either don't get a degree at all, or they switch majors. And there's jolly good old CS to go to. And when you think about it, most people who were persuing Physics have a problem solving mind, which lends itself to CS in the first place. So it's not as hard a switch as one might think.
There are other majors where the same thing applies.
As far as finding a job...well almost any job market is cyclical. And you have location to worry about. And ironically, you have to have experience to get a job somehow. But eventually, I'm sure those who try hard enough will eventually get a job and the experience they want or need. Other people will just do something else.
-MillsJROSS