BAH! genetics suck

[Meowster]

A few months ago I found out I had a half brother, a child of my father's that he never told us about.

I met him a few times, and he looks exactly like my dad and speaks exactly like my dad. Sadly, he also has the same personality as my dad... I found out that he beats his girlfriend up... he lies and spreads rumours about her to try and make other people believe that she's horrible... and he hasn't had a job for years... he has two children with two different women already and he's only 28..  And of course he doesn't pay child support for these children. Somehow, just like my dad, he seems to think it's okay to have children with whomever you want, whenever you want, and then not pay a penny towards their upkeep. nice.

When I found all this out, I immediately broke up contact with him. I want nothing to do with a wife-beater, half-brother or not...

The thing is, it amazes me that he can be basically EXACTLY like my dad... in so many ways, their personality, looks and life are mirror images of each other - and yet he's never actually MET my dad. It's really strange.

Makes me worry about having sons in the future...

Genetics are a funny thing

[Raggit]

Well, is that behavior hardwired genetically, or is it learned?

[ALPHATT]

Whew maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan....
This is sometin.
That whole thing like movie, its so WEIRD.

[Meowster]

I'm sure SOME of it is genetic... personality disorders such as ADHD contribute to overall bad-behaviour, and I know that my dad has that and so does my half-brother... these disorders are apparently passed on more easily to guys than girls, which is why myself and my sisters are all "fine", but my brothers all struggle with behaviour problems...

But how they got to have the same manipulative streak in them... I have no idea. Even details like... they both have grand ideas on how to become millionaires by starting crazy businesses... they'll obsess over these ideas and then scrap it all and have a NEW idea a few weeks later... I don't understand how even tiny details like that can be the same...

[LimpingFish]

That is quite interesting. What was your fathers father like? Logic would dictate a similarity in his personality also.

I don't think I'm a lot like my late father. I physically resemble him, but the only personality trait we share is probably a similar sense of humour.

If anything, I would say my sister shares more personality traits with him (he was harding working and frugal, as is she) than either of his sons.

I don't know if you can attribute such similarites to genetics; although seeing as your half-brother has never actually met his father, I guess it's possible.

[Jon]

I think that this type of sad behaviour is caused by an influence, in this case - your father. The play 'Blood Brothers', shows how children can become different people from their upbringing.

[Helm]

I have no problem agreeing a part of his behaviour is of genetic predisposition. Forget about free will. My dad and I do the exact same movements when we go to the bathroom (don't ask how I know), when we eat, specific mannerisms and such. I wouldn't say we're very alike in 'high-level' personality though, we just grew up very differently.

That being said though,

not pay a penny towards their upkeep

upkeep? children aren't bases in warcraft. What about the women who had children with him though I am certain he wasn't the poster boy for responsibility for a flat second of his life? Don't have children with people like that. Both parties are to 'blame'. And the child will probably suffer, though there's cases where single moms make it work. With that sort of judgement on the mother's part exhibited though, I'm not holding my breath.

[Tuomas]

So you're saying he shouldn't pay support for his children? Even if the woman made a mistake having children with someone like that and both are to blame it would still be his responsibility to help raising the kid. Paying childsupport isn't punishing the father but making the costs equal to both of them. It's like someone was spreading crabs and people would be blamed for getting them without knowing it. If you get a child, it's not that easy just to get rid of it, and most people wouldn't want to, no matter how dickhead the father. And if the problem is the woman not using pills and tricking the father, I would maybe be on the father's side, but if it's him shagging women with no condom, he should take some responsibility TOO.

[Andail]

Responsible fathers pay child support regardless of how irresponsible the mothers are.

When it comes to behaviour; sure, genetics map out the rough boundaries of our potential personalities, upbringing and social factors fill in the blank spots.
ADHD doesn't create bad behaviour. Saying that is a tad oldfashioned.

[Meowster]

I know that, Andail... but I mean, it's a contributing factor in their bad behaviour. There are sooo many other contributing factors...

Helm: Sure, the mothers weren't exactly without blame, but the fact is, he's going around town getting women pregnant without any regard for the children  that will be born and raised without a father. Any person who does that deserves a slap in the face... he can't even be bothered to get a job to support them.

The mother in this case is 10 years his junior, younger than me in fact... I can see that it may have been a case of her being stupid and young and falling for the lies and pretend security he offered. I'm not excusing her... I don't even know her that well. But what kind of 30-year-old guy gets a 19-year-old pregnant, then can't even be bothered to get a job to pay for the child (she works full-time, incidentally), won't even move in with her, and then beats her up when she leaves him.

My half-brother, apparently

But yeah... I just don't understand how without even having met my father... he can be so much like him. I mean, down to the tiniest details... what's that about!?

[lo_res_man]

Ah nature verses nurture, one of the ultimate questions. I like to think genetics mostly describes potential, and experiance is just, experiance. Like if your teacher squashes your work, or takes the time to help you grow, that kind of thing.

[Raggit]

One thing I know is that I'm hardly anything like my dad, and take after my mom a lot more in terms of personality, behavior, and a predisposition to anxiety.

A lot of that, like the disposition to anxiety, is genetic.  BUT, let's say I had been given to the wrong parents at birth or something... then I would still have the genetic tendency to worrying, but I might've learned different behavior to deal with it.  Though I wasn't switched at birth, (as it is quite obvious we're related,) my ways of dealing with anxiety are quite different than hers.  We've learned different behaviors due to different life events.

She was raised by an verbally and phsyically abusive father, and that certainly impacted her a lot from the earliest years.  I was raised in a very normal home, which was void of verbal or phsyical abuse.  My mom has had to struggle to overcome the way she was raised, and to not be like her parents, but she's managed very well.  And because I wasn't raised like she was, it's probably been easier for me to cope with stress than it was for her.

This is why I believe that just because we may be genetically predisposed to something, doesn't mean we are resigned to it.  We can train ourselves to change our behavior and responses to things, despite our environment.

[Meowster]

One thing I know is that I'm hardly anything like my dad, and take after my mom a lot more in terms of personality, behavior, and a predisposition to anxiety.

A lot of that, like the disposition to anxiety, is genetic.  BUT, let's say I had been given to the wrong parents at birth or something... then I would still have the genetic tendency to worrying, but I might've learned different behavior to deal with it.  Though I wasn't switched at birth, (as it is quite obvious we're related,) my ways of dealing with anxiety are quite different than hers.  We've learned different behaviors due to different life events.

She was raised by an verbally and phsyically abusive father, and that certainly impacted her a lot from the earliest years.  I was raised in a very normal home, which was void of verbal or phsyical abuse.  My mom has had to struggle to overcome the way she was raised, and to not be like her parents, but she's managed very well.  And because I wasn't raised like she was, it's probably been easier for me to cope with stress than it was for her.

This is why I believe that just because we may be genetically predisposed to something, doesn't mean we are resigned to it.  We can train ourselves to change our behavior and responses to things, despite our environment.

hehehe, I hope that I'm like your mum...

...I'm also from a family where the father was psychically and verbally abusive. When I was trapped, the way I dealt with it was to hurt myself (not cutting, but strangely I took to making myself sick... I've never heard of this being used as a form of self-harm as it seems to generally be referred to as Bulimia... although in my case it's not weight related so errrrmmm yeah who knows... ¬¬)

I realized at the time that this was a terrible weakness and certainly not helping my situation, and I can't really explain why I did it. Even now, when I'm really angry or really upset about something, I refuse to eat, and if I do then I'll force myself to get sick... a problem that can last for days at times. I guess it is helpful to have something else to focus on that's not whatever is troubling you... it also helps release anger in a way that wasn't how my father did it.

Maybe if I hadn't grown up with my father and seen what a useless person he is, I would have been less careful about trying to be a good person, and would have ended up exactly like him.

Or maybe I'd have ended up the same person but without the anxiety problems and social/relationship difficulties I have now.

What baffles me is... None of my full sisters or brothers have become like my father... the only person who is like him is the only sibling who has never even met him. Which makes me think that, perhaps we all had the potential to be exactly like my father... all the personality traits and everything... but because we experienced what a monster he was, we learned to be completely different... wait, does that make sense??

Some ways in which my father and half brother are the same without ever having met:

They both make up stories about their partners to make them seem worse in the eyes of others...
They both publicly denounce wife-beaters but are, themselves, wife beaters...
They both make up fabulous lies about how women fancy them and everybody thinks they're great...
They both have had numerous children from different mothers, none of which they care for or even think about ever... unless it's because they're threatening to take the children away from the mother if she should break up with them...
They don't have jobs because they both feel like they're above the average person... too good to work a boring day job... yet they manage to spend all the money their wife/girlfriend has...
They both have new ridiculous plans to start a business and a new get-rich-quick plans every month... none of which fall through but all off which drive their partner further into debt...
They both have exactly the same personality... think that everybody finds them charming and smart and sauve... even though few people do...
They both claim they were abused as children, and would never ever afflict abuse on another person because they know what it's like... but they're just as bad as the stories they tell...

I could go on, and on, and on....

The worst part is, they both seem to be able to completely lie to themselves... when I asked my half brother if it was true what he'd done, he said that all he'd done was "push" her... a claim I often heard my father make, even though he knew we'd seen him do a lot more than to push our mother...

He's also convinced that his girlfriend was cheating on him... which, again, I know isn't true... and is something else my father used to believe of my mum... he was absolutely convinced she was cheating on him even though if you knew my mum... you'd know that was a ridiculous thing to think of her...

Man I am just totally ranting. Sorry. I'm just really annoyed... and I think it's such a lame, lame thing to happen... I'm going to be totally fucking afraid of passing my genes on to the next generation...

[Helm]

So you're saying he shouldn't pay support for his children?

No.

but

Helm: Sure, the mothers weren't exactly without blame, but the fact is, he's going around town getting women pregnant

holy shit! the wording of this! Women fought for equal responsibility all this time to be impregnated by a random, irresponsible penis going about the town? Haphazard impregnation? 

It just sounds very bad to attribute the 'getting pregnant' bit to an irresponsible penis and not an irresponsible vagina.

[Meowster]

No no no, you're misunderstanding,

I agree that the women are just as responsible, HOWEVER,

I'm not talking about them. I'm not talking about how stupid they are or aren't. I'm talking about my half brother.

How irresponsible the women are is irrelevant to what I'm actually talking about, because my point is that HE is an irresponsible, nasty, lazy and bad person. I don't care whether or not the mothers are, as they have nothing to do with me. I'm talking about him.

If you went around town, Helm, knocking up women... then they'd be an idiot for letting you, yes. But you'd still be an asshole for doing it. You see what I'm saying? And even more of an asshole for doing that and then not even bothering to pay a bit of child support for any one of them. The mothers in all of the cases attributed to my brother, have at least worked to support their child and give them a decent life. In all the cases, he's disappeared from their lives entirely.

I'm talking about what an asshole my brother is, not what an asshole completely unrelated people to me are...

[Raggit]

What baffles me is... None of my full sisters or brothers have become like my father... the only person who is like him is the only sibling who has never even met him. Which makes me think that, perhaps we all had the potential to be exactly like my father... all the personality traits and everything... but because we experienced what a monster he was, we learned to be completely different... wait, does that make sense??

I think there really is something to that.  I know a brother and sister whose dad is very temperamental, (not physical, though,) and when he flies off the handle, he really flies off the handle.  A very short temper indeed, and yet, they are not like him at all.  (Okay, well the sister is somewhat.)  I've known them since we were all little kids, and they always seemed to have some understanding that behaving like they're dad just wasn't the way to be.  I think that is a case of the kids actually being more mature than the parent.  Their mother is also totally laid back, so that's a balancing influence.

[Helm]

Yeah I agree totally. It's just that I find it odd that sexual relations are portrayed in this light. If I were a con-artist that went around ripping people off, sure, that's not much of their fault, but for someone to go around having irresponsible sex with people that leads to babies... can't people smell that one coming?

Sorry to broaden the subject if you don't want to go that way, though.

[Pesty]

You know, it's funny. I have a half-brother, too. He's not my father's child and my father has raised him since he was an infant. He's 33 now.

And he acts exactly like my father. Some of his mannerisms, even, reflect my father's. I don't know how his father acted, my mother doesn't talk about him much, but I often wonder if he was anything like my dad is and it's genetics, or if it's just how he was raised. It's an odd thing, the "nature vs. nurture" argument.

[Babar]

I've got too many similarities with my father - behaviour, personality, ideas -  many of which are not so good. Will I grow up to be like him, or will I be able to escape the cycle, seeing as I know what the effects are? FIND OUT NEXT GENERATION, ON THE BABAR FAMILY LINE!


Ummm...yeah. I don't understand why there is still a "nature vs. nurture" argument. I'd have thought that by now people would have understood. There is some stuff that comes from nature, and there is some stuff that comes from nurture.