... or maybe you totally did.
Anyway, as you would have known, I've been away for a bit, mainly to think a lot of things in my life through.
And one thing I've decided is to "come out of the closet", so to speak.
And if THAT didn't give it away, then I hope this does...
I'm gay.
Did you get the hint?
Yes, yes yes... alright, throw away those "BUT HE'S SUCH A CHRISTIAN!" ideas you have. They're wrong. Well, I'm not ANTI-christian, so don't ask me to join your cult (although that AGS religion does sound appealing), but yeah, I'm gay.
Um... that's all I think...
[/end rant]
Honey, it's great! Say it with me, say it loud: "We're gay, we're gay and proud!"
~~Bernie L
"We're gay, we're gay and proud!"
There. I said it.
Umm. . .it's kind of lonely on this gay island.
Can anyone out there say it with us?
~~Bernie L
(Come on, humour me, people!)
Yeah! Agreed. I mean, it's been like nearly 25 MINUTES or something, and no one's replied. They obviously don't love us. :(
Woah. I SOOO never saw this coming... ;)
Congratulations for coming out of your closet.
WE WILL NOT BE OPPRESSED!!!
Hmph.
~~Bernie L
i'm a lesbian
And you smell like one too.
~~Bernie L
Dang... now I have to stop lusting after you secretly. Phooey.
Quote from: DragonRoseDang... now I have to stop lusting after you secretly. Phooey.
Dang. Me too! (must stop lusting after you secretly that is - not gay tho - not that lucky)
Congrats.
oh - I spoke to god . . and he totally approves, he's also going to smite all overly religious types next week - for being annoying.
Sweet.
About time God got to that.
Personally, I believe in the Super Friends.
~~Bernie L
I am so not gay, but good for you man! You should always be happy with who you are too.
Bt
Yeah, Blackthorne's not gay.
. . .but his boyfriend is.
~~Bernie L
God, I give this thread about 6 more hours before it's locked. Our only hope now is for DG to rescue us with one of his witty replies.
And I never knew people lusted me! I would never have left had I known :(
Quote from: BernieLaraemie on Mon 17/01/2005 06:30:53
Yeah, Blackthorne's not gay.
. . .but his boyfriend is.
~~Bernie L
You bet he is!!!! I'm going to stay safely ensconced in my closet with my ABBA album, thank you.
Bt
I think you're hot, Peter.
But Elton's still hotter.
Quote from: BernieLaraemie on Mon 17/01/2005 06:54:31
I think you're hot, Peter.
But Elton's still hotter.
Elton's best song is Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding.
.
.
.
I just thought you should know.
Anyway, w00t, go Peter.
Bt
I don't even recall posting a pic either for or against my hotness, but either way... I'll run with it.
If announcing it is like a liberation for you... congrats.... I think...! :)
Personally my fave elton songs are "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" and "We All Fall In Love Sometimes/Curtains"
But the GYBR album has some good stuff too. Fave off that is "I've Seen that Movie, Too."
~~Bernie L
Farlander : liberation is a part of it, I suppose. I suppose it's also just a matter of thinking you all have a right to know. Not in a bragging sense. Just when you say you're one thing when you're really another, it helps clear the air to make a clear cut announcement, rather than sort of only saying it when people ask.
My opinion about you haven't changed an atom for revealing that you're gay (My opinion about you is still bad! joking... ;)), so I think happens with many of AGSers, so, I assume that's an internal matter most that an "outer" matter.
haha. yes, largely internal. Just an "outer" expression of it :)
And yes, your smile IS sexy, so I'm going to have to kill that girl who turns up next to you in all your photos!
Please no... :'(
Ah, we all decided she looked like that girl from Futurama anyway, with one eye. No big loss. I've got two, I promise.
I appreciate honesty and if the announcment is a bit of cleansing or an act of bravery than many congrats. However, this being one of the many twisted tendrils of the internet, I don't really make assumptions about gender, sexual preference or take much as a given (even if it's previously been claimed). I personally, don't even have evidence that CJ is male. I secretly believe he's a hermaphrodite (though I don't expect anybody to believe that I believe that).
Twisted tendril? TWISTED TENDIRL?
Fair enough...
Speaking as another christian, please let me apologise in advance for all the other christians you encounter who may treat you as some kind of demon. If where you happen to stick your todger is a sin, it isn't as great a sin as the venomous bile and hate that consumes some anti-gay christians.
Thank you, SSH. That actually means an awful lot to me.
It's certainly not a 'decision' I just made while sipping lemonade (however it does sound mightily appealing). And I'm certainly not abandoning my christian faith altogether, either. I'm still tossing things up very carefully in my mind, however the fact you're not shoving bible verses down my throat is a great encouragement :)
I still think it's funny that the Uniting chruch [not to be confused with the Moonies] in Australia declared recently that the people who had interpreted the bible as saying the crimes of sodom and gomorrah etc. were bad because they were promiscuous, rather than in a dedicated, monogamous realationship, like modern gays, and thus it was alright to be gay if you followed the same principals as straights....had interpreted the bible validly.
However, those who had interpreted the bible as saying that all gays were going to hell to burn forever...had interpreted the bible validly.
It's not like you can do anything about being gay anyway. It's a gene you get or don't get from your mother. How you're raised has very little to do with it
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Mon 17/01/2005 06:46:04Our only hope now is for DG to rescue us with one of his witty replies.
(http://www.uwe.peterson.claranet.de/private/moviefaces/actress/z/rz_jerrymaguire01.jpg)
You had me at, "Did you get the hint?"
You ... you can join the FAB 5!
mmmmm... there is alot of controversy on the subject about the things that create our sexuality...
while some can claim that some instinctual aspects are inborn.... some forms of homosexuality can be spawned out of abuse. Which is very sad.
Not all cases... but its never purely a case of simple nature and simple nurture... some bastards have to step in and traumatise people and radically change their growth and nature as human beings.
______________________________________
Congrats on coming out... :D very proud of you... A mate of mine came out about six months ago, in the end I was one of the last to be told, I actually just came out and asked him at one point when he was gonna tell me :), after that it was all sorted...
OPEN is good...
My parents on the other hand are shits... growing up they were of the impression that I would turn out to be gay. Aparently they had conversations with my grand parents about it that were very sienfeld-esque... to the akin of "NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT".
And then in the end I didn't turn out to be gay I just came home with a woman 10 years my senior... I only found out recently that it was almost like my family was placing bets on when I would come out.... jerks.
(i get the impression that frued would have a fucking field day with me :S )
I saw it coming, you big gay bastard....
(I still am suspicious of a prank here, but hey man, it's cool either way...)
As a proud Thespian, I go to many drama festivals and programs with my friends and schoolmates. And every time they try to set me up with a boy, sometimes more then one. They all refuse to believe that I prefer the female gender, no matter how many girls I date, how many females I hit on, or how many boys I kiss without getting an erection. :P
I'm glad to hear that you're open about it. *Does the Time Warp*
Thesbian= Lesbian with lisp?!?!?!?
Bt
/me taps his Gaydar machine.
Damnit, I thouht this thing worked..
Congratulations, you're gay!
Next ATC I say all the gays get together and have their own team ;) That'd be great.
I know of lot of guys where you talk to them and a while later they're like, "Oh, this is my girlfriend. . . " and you're like, WHAT?!?!?! But anyway, that's just me.
. . .still waiting for Bernie Taupin to come out. . .
~~Bernie L
Quote from: BernieLaraemie on Mon 17/01/2005 20:14:37
Next ATC I say all the gays get together and have their own team ;) That'd be great.
...or do some remakes. I'd love to see Guybrush in a spiffy outfit. And Elaines mansion could sure use a gay touch! ;)
I just have to line up with the congratulants and well wishers, PT. Nice to see somebody breaking the stereotype by being gay AND obnoxious! ;)
Funny how so many of the posters feel the need to state their own non-gayness in the same post.... "Not that there's anything wrong with THAT!" :=
It's great how open-minded and mature the AGS forum guys are. Of course, in the 'real world', things are very different. The overall acceptance of gays seems to be rather low. (Well, at least where I life, and that would be in the middle of nowhere.)
I've actually heard people say that...
a. ...you can become gay just like that at any time in your life
b. ...being gay is a sin
c. ...gay persons talk in shrill voices and act like girls
d. ...you can become gay if you've seen your parents naked too often
e. ...you can become gay by looking at nekkid men a lot
That's rather sad, really.
For some of those (especially c.) we have to thank movies and talk shows, because in those, gays are depicted like that very often. I'm not sure how d. came into being in the first place, but hey, at least it made me laugh when I heard my co-worker say it.
Anyway, since you've been so brave and came out of this closet of yours, here's a little picture I drew for you, peter: Click moi, babey (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/body1b.jpg)
Hooray! :D
And lo!
It's the other Bernie! Finally, I get to meet the person I'm often mistaken for.
Good to meet you, Honey.
~~Bernie L
Quote from: Bernie on Mon 17/01/2005 23:42:39
here's a little picture I drew for you, peter: Click moi, babey (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/body1b.jpg)
And you stopped at the hips because....?
By the gods, that nearly made me PLEASED with anime, which is by and large a long shot. Congrats on having me under your spell...
Quote from: YOke on Mon 17/01/2005 20:33:34
Funny how so many of the posters feel the need to state their own non-gayness in the same post.... "Not that there's anything wrong with THAT!"Ã, :=
I know there's nothing wrong with being not-gay! Just because I can't dance.... I'm sick of being persecuted by the gay agenda..... I just want to love everyone!!!!!!!!
Bt
Well.. He was just quoting from "Seinfeld"... Hehe
Anyways, I just want to get it straight that I personally don't feel that being gay is morally right. And I also don't think it's the result of an equation of a estranged childhood, genes, or any of that mess. Almost always it's a choice, whether concious or subconcious.
If homosexuality was caused by a certain gene mutation/damage.. Then it should/would be considered a disease. Almost an epidemic, as more and more people are "coming out" every day.
I don't want to get into a long spiel about this, so I'll stop know. But just don't get me wrong, I'm not a homophobe and I don't hate gays or discriminate against them. They are a very real part of this world, and I just have to accept it.
But sometimes I just get to the point of saying "This is RIDICULOUS!"
I don't know why I'm doing this , I hate getting involved in internet debates, but... *deep breath*
It's a choice to live publicly as a homosexual (that sounds so dumb...) but it's not a choice to be one, unless you have some serious self control. I myself am bisexual, and that's something I never choce but always was. I don't "live" as one, as such (god, I hate talking like this, it sounds retarded...) as I have a long term boyfriend and it's probably never going to come up as an issue. I'll let people know if they ask, and I'll talk about women with my friends (and even my boyfriend, but in a more careful way ^_^;;) but I don't go around telling them because... well, it's embarrasing to say "bisexual" and expecially "bi". Urgh! Why isn't there some nice sounding slang term, like "gay"? Also, because I know there are a lot of people who get funny about things like that and I hate making it into an issue.
I'm not trying to sound like a "Some of my friends are *whatever*!" but I'm just saying that there's a little thing inside of me that just wants to bite like a pitbull when I hear people make statements about it being morally wrong or a choice or anything stupid like that. Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time, it's not some new "epidemic", only the actual act of living as a homosexual could be considered so as, as you said, more people are "coming out" these days.
Let me just say again, I hated saying all of that. I hate sounding like a... stander-upper of rights or something. I think I'm gonna go have a shower -_-
I blame it all on SpiderMan Ã, ;D
http://mapage.noos.fr/novalys/spidey.htm
Ã, Heheh... Just a corny joke guys... it's was such a stupid and lame flash movie, thought I'd share it here..
Anyways, in regards to being gay or straight, it doesn't matter to me what someone's personal preferences are.
If you're not hurting anyone and if it makes you happy, then go for it.
Ã, Ã, Be proud of who you are, respect others, be happy. Ã, :=
Oh yeah, congrats and all that. I've had a few friends go through this and it's always a bit of a brain explosion as well as being a huge relief so I hope life... is... all good and all that.
My fave Elton song is 'Healing Hands'! Man, that's fun to sing at karaoke.
Whee, gay... how did you find out, anyway?
I just don't get the whole gay thing... and most likely never will.
It's fine with me, by standardised condition - "as long no-one touches MY arse".
Then again, seeing two guys making out in a bus is quite disgusting for me...
Someone's sexual orientation doesn't mean much in these forums anyway.
* thinks about Mittens
Huh.
Quote from: Barbarian on Tue 18/01/2005 04:02:35
I blame it all on SpiderMan ;D
Totally off topic, but Here's the proper link to that. (http://www2.b3ta.com/spidermanwillmakeyougay/) It really annoys me when people steal animations and put it on their sites like that. Give the right people, in this case Mr. Manuel, the credit!
I'm glad AGS'ers are coming out of the closet.
It's high time we embrace it so the world can FINALLY see Queen's Quest come to fruition. ;D
I was kinda hoping this wouldn't turn into a debate about whether it was right or wrong, but oh well.
I don't expect everyone to approve of my "choice" (won't get into that....) - that wasn't why I posted. It was purely a tidbit of information that I thought would be appropriate to signal my 'return' to the forums.
But since we're here; kudos lgm, for expressing what you feel without being a massive dickhead about it all (not that I thought you WOULD be, y'know... just thanks for NOT doing it....)
I prefer the gay Spiderman in this: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/elvis.php
I don't get why there's a debate about it being a choice or not, besides in a purely scientific fashion.
I like dark haired girls. I don't know whether I was genetically predisposed to that or whether I choose, but it doesn't matter so long as the girls I'm with like guys that look like me. It doesn't effect anyone whether it's a choice or not.
Hmm...
...
...
...
...
For once, I am at a loss for words. I really did not see that coming!
Well, it's not a bad thing, though. You are what you are.
I'm not sure what to say... I should say something nice, so... Congratulations, Petey. :)
Quote from: DGMacphee on Tue 18/01/2005 05:35:18
I prefer the gay Spiderman in this: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/elvis.php
Lol... really funny video... Great job on that new "Elvis" song remake. Only thing that creeped me out about it was the "Evil Bert" of Sesame Street fame.
Ã, Ã, That "Gay SpiderMan" sure gets around... here's the "Spanish Disco Gey SpiderMan"Ã, lol...
http://files.frashii.com/spiderman.swf
Ã, Ã, When the file finishes loading in, just click on the text to play it.
Congratulations Peter...I think. Personally my opinion of you hasn't changed and iota- you'll always be "that guy that makes great music"- but if it makes you feel good coming out and saying it...all the better for you.
Quote from: Las Naranjas on Tue 18/01/2005 07:37:36
I like dark haired girls. I don't know whether I was genetically predisposed to that or whether I choose, but it doesn't matter so long as the girls I'm with like guys that look like me. It doesn't effect anyone whether it's a choice or not.
Well said Las. How Precise, concice and damn straight nice! Whoo. I even SPEAK gay.
You're getting there, honey.
And fave karaoke tunes are "Tiny Dancer" and "I Will Survive"
. . . at least, they will be when I can sing again *grumbles*
~Bernie L
I don't want to create polemic, but... But aren't (IMHO) all that "homo" symbols totally sexist? When a song is released, people do not say "That's a hetero song!"... heteros don't have colors, like pink, or a "hetero proud day" or "hetero bars". The "official gay" reply is that those "gay symbols" are a reply to a society that is, except that, totally hetero, but I think that people don't give a fuck about sexuallity and its the gays who like to remember the heteros which is their sexual choose... I really look hypocrital all that symbology and that claim to be different when many times gay associations are demmanding equality.
It is like...
-You know? I'm gay!
-Ok...
-Have you heard me? I am gay.
-Ok, I am hetero... so?
-I think you don't understand me! I am gay!
-And?
-See??? You're isolating me from the society? I knew you are homophobic!
-I am not...
-Yes! Only homophobics deny their homophoby! I am going to dress in pink, listening Gloria Gaynor and leave a Freddy Mercury's moustache! Because you do not accept me like I am! So I am going to be a totally gay cliché and in that way you'll have to accept me! Or at least, in that way people will know at the very first glance that I am gay, and in that way, if they don't like it, they would avoid me!!!
-Ok... ( :P)
I don't know if you know what I am talking about... but when people yells to the winds "I AM GAY" in the way some people does, for me, the reply they're expecting is "Well, not that there's nothing wrong with that, but..." And then, start complaining about that "but"... But many times those who yell just receive "Tell it to someone who cares! And don't yell, there's people wanting to sleep over here!!!"
Eh, I don't care where people get their orgasms from. It sure as hell ain't from me, so what do I care?
Seriously, I hear what you are saying Farlander, about the symbols, colors and the need to express yourself. However, I don't walk around screaming "I love to fuck chicks, and I'm proud of it!!!" However, I have seen a few rednecks with shirts that say "I love Boobies" so that may be a rather uncouth way of suggestion that you are, in fact, heterosexual. Anyhow, sometimes I think that being "gay" is a way of being chic, in some circles, and that some people just want attention. Of course, takin' a shot in the mouth or up the tailpipe is definitely some attention - I'd sure notice that myself!
People are people. If you're cool, you're cool. If you suck, you suck. I don't care who you love, how you love them, and what you want from another person. If you wanna touch, rub, suck, fuck, lick and whatever to a member of your own gender, hey, rock on. Someday, no one will give a shit about any of this and people will just be people.
On that note, "Will and Grace" is on.....
Bt
Mmmm... That made me think, and for me, I do love boobies and I say it! But I see some differences... I've seen stickers with the "I'm gay" (Do you imagine a sticker with a legend "I am hetero!"???) I've never seen a sticker of "I love boobies" neither, (But I think they can exist...).
I am not talking of making commentaries about people or sexual activities that appeal you... I won't complain if a gay friend of mine says "hey, that guy has a nice bo'om!" or if I see teo guys/girls, kissing...that's normal! I am talking of making that public shows, that "proudness" they talk about... Proud about what? using somewhat LasNaranjas example, imagine somebody making a "proud to be blonde day"! Stoopid, isn't it?
Maybe I am making hetero showings all the day and I don't realise... but I think that's different.
I think it's because it used to be so taboo. not many hundred years ago, the punishment was death. And only 20 years ago, peole saw things very differently. These public showings are also a celebration for people who have same interests and celebrate it (mittens, anyone?).
I think the short and simple answer is: There are stupid gay people too!
The only time I actually thought a gay person was stupid was when I worked with this one guy. He was gay, of course, but he just kept hitting on me. He knew perfectly well I was straight (he saw me kiss my girlfriend on my lunch break), but he just kept hitting on me like he actually had a chance. Now, I was kinda flattered in the beginning, but after a week of him staring at me, checking me out every time I bent over, and slipping me love notes or his phone number every time he passed my cubicle, I started getting really sick of it. He would actually get mad and run into the bathroom and start crying when people told him he didn't have a chance with me.
He was kind of a drama queen, too... er, king... whatever... that's eventually what got him fired.
Quote from: Mr. Hyde on Tue 18/01/2005 20:45:06
Now, I was kinda flattered in the beginning, but after a week of him staring at me, checking me out every time I bent over, and slipping me love notes or his phone number every time he passed my cubicle, I started getting really sick of it.Ã, He would actually get mad and run into the bathroom and start crying when people told him he didn't have a chance with me.
Man, that is annoying. I don't cry everytime a girl turns me down. I just boot up AGS and make a game.
Bt
from Blackthornes profile: I haven't yet worked on any finished games.
Man, you're irresistible!
Quote from: Haddas on Tue 18/01/2005 20:54:54
from Blackthornes profile: I haven't yet worked on any finished games.
Man, you're irresistible!
You don't need to tell
ME that. Heh heh.
Bt
Quote from: Farlander on Tue 18/01/2005 18:06:14
I am talking of making that public shows, that "proudness" they talk about... Proud about what? using somewhat LasNaranjas example, imagine somebody making a "proud to be blonde day"! Stoopid, isn't it?
In part, I agree with you farl. I don't (personally) believe in gay pride marches or walking around with rainbow handkerchiefs in yer pocket (though it doesn't bother me who does...), but the reason a lot of gay people feel the need to express it is because it was - for a loooong time - and still is, in a lot of cases, taboo.
I've gathered so far that it doesn't bother YOU who loves who, but it bothers the government. Up until recently gay people could not marry (still can't in a lot countries, Aus included), I know a LOT of people who lost jobs when people found out they were gay, and there are a HUGE number of homophobes out there who think it's just downright funny to kick a gay person.
You hardly notice it when you're hetro, because none of it concerns you, which is why some gay people SHOUT it out. They're not saying "hey farlander - we're GAY!". They're simply saying "we're gay and we're going to show it because we can." That's absolutely NO different to wearing a shirt that says "I like breasts" or "Need head" or "I swapped my boyfriend for a puppy"...
A thing that is not fair is the facist moderation on these boards.
I saw your post right after you posted it, and then it was gone within seconds. I didn't see anything wrong with it, but oh well.
Quote from: Haddas on Tue 18/01/2005 19:08:46
I think it's because it used to be so taboo. not many hundred years ago, the punishment was death. And only 20 years ago, peole saw things very differently. These public showings are also a celebration for people who have same interests and celebrate it (mittens, anyone?).
This is very true. It was illegal in Britain until 1967. . .and even after '67 you had to be 19 to sleep with another man. And this is Britain we're talking here. Not saying every Brit is gay, but. . .
I think some people do use their sexuality to provoke arguements and fights. . .that's sad, but on occasion I'm sure we've all done somethign like that.
I was a temp supervisor where I used to wor(food service) and someone came in and ordered some food, and the order was taken by our youngest employee, who had a strong spanish accent. The man kept egging him on about it, demanding he resay things and that he couldn't understand and there were spoutings of "Speak English" and go back to your home country and all of that until he demanded to see the supervisor (me.)
Well I marched over there and beefed up my British accent to full and told the guy off. It was fun.
~~Bernie L
Here in Idaho (USA) there are still laws on the books against any sexaul act beyond the missionary position. They aren't enforced, thankfully, but they are there. A few years ago, my small town decided to prosecute this young couple for fornication.....seriously....It didn't get anywhere except for day time talk shows though....So, really I've always been worried they would arrest someone for homosexaul sex acts and stir the shit some more....
It's also illegal to ring a bell within the Niagara Falls (Canada) city limits.
And, for some reason, they enforce this.
~~Bernie
...that's right, you need a special permit to ring a bell:)
Quote from: BernieLaraemie on Wed 19/01/2005 01:37:49
Well I marched over there and beefed up my British accent to full and told the guy off. It was fun.
What does a
British accent sound like?
Whoay-aye, my luvver, ye cannae do that here, old fruit, baah!
For those who can't get those regional dialects:
Spoiler
Geordie, West Country, Scottish, Posh and Welsh
Anyway, certain parts of Britian were always more into bestiality than gayness. As I said to AGA:
"It's Adam and
Eve, not Adam and Ewe"
Y'know, I work in a supermarket with a guy called (well let's just say his name is dave) and he was really funny, I mean he'd make anyone laugh, he was great at arguing and had bleached blond hair. When he told me the other day that he was gay, everything started to make sense. He was in college but wasn't enjoying the women 'n stuff. Irish gay guys sound very happy, not like others with lisps and those gay tones reminiscent of Wll and Grace. I spoke to his (bum) friends and they sounded no different from my own (not bum) friends. the whole camp thing is overblown and silly and It's time we all wised up. anyway, I got a gay colleague waiting to kick my head in so I'll see ya! 8)
I think Yoke put it really well. There are stupid people in this world, and some of them are also gay so don't assume when you see an annoying gay person that they're necessarilly indicitive of the whole bunch. Much like the Simpsons episode with Stampy.
"Well, animals are not like people, Mrs. Simpson. Some of them act badly because they've had a hard life, or have been mistreated...but, like people, some of them are just jerks."
A lot of marches these days are just an excuse to dress up like a politician and have some fun, get pissed, have some sex and whatnot, but I can't argue with the reason they started because if you look at history, as everyone has already said so I'm just repeating it here, they've very justified in wanting to celebrate the freedom they have.
Also, although gay people are totally accepted in many situations now, there are still some fairly major steps to get up. In Australia, I -think-, gay marriages are still illegal which is just stupid in my opinion. In this day and age, that this sort of thing still happens in such a public forum as the government... annoys me. For me, it's the same as still having a law that blacks can't marry whites. These days, such a law would sound simply insane. I'm no expert, but there are probably other similar laws and such, so I think they're still justifed in the marches and whatnot.
As for the "I'm gay, people! Do I want a coffee? Well yes, because I'm GAY" (anyone watch 'Little Britian'?) people, yeah... there's a certain desire to be both cool and different in all that and those people are just show offs ^_^
Again, I'm going to totally disagree with you by saying gay marriages should NOT be legalized.
As a Christian, marriage, in my eyes, is defined as the holy sanctity of two individuals of the opposite sex. Not only is homosexuality a complete perversion of God's intention of human sexuality, but when they want to get married, they might as well piss on the bible and flip the bird to the heavens.
But that's just me. See it as incensitive, repulican, or just stupid. I don't care. Again, repeating myself, I'm not a gay-hater or homophobe in the slightest. Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean it's real and I shouldn't accept that as a fact of life.
Oh well. Do whatever makes you happy, as long as it doesn't fuck anyone else over. (I guess you could call me a Utilitarianist, in that respect o_0)
So, sex without marriage is sin. Gay marriage is sin.
Which is more sinful? Gays having premarital or marital sex?
Quote from: [lgm] on Thu 20/01/2005 02:31:08
Again, I'm going to totally disagree with you by saying gay marriages should NOT be legalized.
As a Christian, marriage, in my eyes, is defined as the holy sanctity of two individuals of the opposite sex. Not only is homosexuality a complete perversion of God's intention of human sexuality, but when they want to get married, they might as well piss on the bible and flip the bird to the heavens.
But that's just me. See it as incensitive, repulican, or just stupid. I don't care. Again, repeating myself, I'm not a gay-hater or homophobe in the slightest. Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean it's real and I shouldn't accept that as a fact of life.
Oh well. Do whatever makes you happy, as long as it doesn't fuck anyone else over. (I guess you could call me a Utilitarianist, in that respect o_0)
(http://www.iconarchive.com/icon/cartoon/sesamestreet_by_pino/CookieMonster2.gif)
Yeah... marriage is such a holy sanctity... so much that (at least here that I know of) you have to buy a license for it.
Honestly, I don't think marriage is a religious thing at all... marriage, in my eyes, is two people who love each other, and are celebrating devoting the rest of their lives to each other.Ã, You say to your girlfriend/boyfriend, "You're the only one for me, you're my best friend, and you make me happy, and I want to spend the rest of my life making you just as happy."Ã, And he/she says, "...ditto."
So, in my mind, marriage shouldn't be anything religious (don't get me wrong, it can be if you really want it to be), and it certainly shouldn't have anything to do with government or laws or licenses.
Honestly, are you going to let a bunch of gassy politicians tell you that you cannot marry the one person who you beleive to be "the one for you" Whether it be a man, or a woman?
As for gay sex... I'm not really going to get into that... just let them do their thing. ;D
EDIT: Just so you know, I'm not bashing religion, nor am I trying to start a jihad, so please don't misunderstand.
In 5 years everyone will be arguing about the legalization of human/animal marriages.
Better, human/incest zombie marriage.
/me can't believe he posts in this thread.
Quote from: Gilbot V7000a on Thu 20/01/2005 06:11:15
Better, human/incest zombie marriage.
People will want to marry their dead family members?
Who needs the marriage certificate anyway.
To some extent here, and I guess elsewhere, the status of de facto [common law in other countries] marriages between same sex couples is starting to get closer to that of heterosexual couples, and de facto marriages carry essentially all the same rights as "real" marriages, so if they reach the same status, homosexual couples can get all the legal benefits of marriage anyway, especially if the homophobic elements are focused on the archaic marriage certificate.
But then again, symbolism is powerful.
I really don't understand homophobia, it's even more nonsensical than sexism and racism, and they're pretty fucking nonsensical.
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Thu 20/01/2005 05:49:05
In 5 years everyone will be arguing about the legalization of human/animal marriages.
We propably will unless we have learned to ask ourselves the simple question:
"Does this affect anyone except the adults involved?"
I mean, unless it hurts other people or involves children too young to speak their mind, what's the problem?
Yeah! Suicide does not involve more than the adult involved! Let's do it! And necrophilia! And zoophilia! Let's do it! ;D
Quote from: Babar on Thu 20/01/2005 07:01:56
Quote from: Gilbot V7000a on Thu 20/01/2005 06:11:15
Better, human/incest zombie marriage.
People will want to marry their dead family members?
My dead lesbian cousin was hot......hmmm.........
Bt
Quote from: Farlander on Thu 20/01/2005 09:15:55
Yeah! Suicide does not involve more than the adult involved! Let's do it! And necrophilia! And zoophilia! Let's do it! ;D
Sorry for being humorless, but all of these suggestions involve someone else. (Although I believe it's a basic human right to determine when you want to end your own life. But that's a topic that deserves a post of it's own ;) )
Examples of things that are not anyones concern are:
- Drugs (if you can behave while on them, go ahead)
- Sexual preferences (Laws on sexuality are hopeless and degrading. However, rape is always bad!)
- How you build your house (I can't believe they have the balls to overrule us on this! The government can even step in if the neighbours are displeased with the color on your house!)
I can list tons of examples, but they would all derail the thread even further. To bring this runaway train back on the tracks I would like to finish by saying:
Good luck with the whole 'being gay' thing, Peter Thomas!
Mr Hyde: Beautiful description of marriage there, at least what it should be ^_^ If you're not married already, go around telling the women that and you'll have no trouble
I'd go a little further and say that I don't believe marriage has to mean anything at all. People getting married for a green card or something doesn't bother me at all, as long as they're happy with what they're doing. It only bothers me when the two people involved are in it for different things or something, or have been deceived or... something.
But that's in extreme cases. Ideally, I think marriage should just be a way for people to make formal a relationship based on love, friendship and a desire to share your lives together. That, and it makes filling in forms easier, makes it easier to refer to your partner (I personally hate saying "That's my boyfriend" and feeling like a 14 year old) and you get to have an awesome party in the form of a wedding (complete with open bar, of course)
I don't agree mr. Yoke! Suicide only involves you, if you have no family and the way you kill yourself does not annoy anybody (I.E. Squirts of blood in your car if someone goes out of the balcony)... Who is annoyed if you go with a boat to the middle of the ocean and you do Angel's jump with cement shoes?
Necrophilia does not involve any living person expect the necrophile if he/she is discrete (if the necrophile does not close the tomb again, ok?)
Zoophilia does not involve more that a person... Except if it's an zoophilorgy!Ã, ;D
That's for repling to you "Let's marry animals and humans if it does not affect anybody". Some things do not involve anybody but the person who is making it and they're not still socially accepted (whereas, from an aseptic, scientific point of view, nobody should really be annoyed if someone fucks the corpse of anybody else, even it thaf's the corpse of somebody knew, because, scientifically talking, the person is not in that body anymore and the personallity dissapears in the moment of the death).
Of course, I am not relating that (nowadays considered as) aberrations with gay marriage. My reply was just for the "who cares about the humans marring animals?"
About the gay marriage... man, I hate to admitt it... but if we talk of "marriage" as union in front of the religion, I can't say gays can get married because the religions I know do not still accept it (I may be wrong about some other religions which are not catholic, that's sure!) gay marriages.
So... if a priest rebells against the main authority (Rome, in my example) and decides to marry men (or women)? In the nowadays context, he will be doing something illegal and impossible, because the secullar laws do not accept that.
It is like if a man appears and say "I can levitate, with the power of my mind"... He will be able to tell that as loud as he wants, but he won't never levitate, Newton does not allow...
The question is... Do you think the laws may change? Aaaaaaaah! That's another question! Somebody can struggle against the laws to break them, like the Wright with the "nothing heavier than air can fly", and break them... So, if gays want to get married in front of the Roman catholical authority, they will have to fight... I won't, because it personally gives a fuck to me. As for me, I will make the religious ceremony if some of the people who cares of it is still alive (Lorena's grannies or mine...). A show of how much importance I give to the religious wedding.
What about weddings in front of the law? The unions do exist, but gay associations seem to go for the "marriage" in capitals letters! I think only on Denmark and in some other country (anyone?) gays can "marry", with all the sense of the word. The same message... fight for it. I am not going to move a finger for it...
... or against it, which, in many cases, it's a lot...
Because it gives a fuck to me.
(hope to have used the "give a fuck" expression propperly...)
Out of topic...
(http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2005/01/20/1106206008_0.jpg)
What the fuck is Jenna doing???
Quote from: Farlander on Thu 20/01/2005 12:20:23
Out of topic...
(http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2005/01/20/1106206008_0.jpg)
What the fuck is Jenna doing???
Indeed, totally off-topic; but have a look at this:
http://aoreport.com/200501news_behindillumcurtain.htm
Makes you wonder, eh?
Mmmmmm??? Well, nazi or not, she's still hot...
Actually the expression is "I don't give a fuck". The way you said it (It gives a fuck to me) sounds...just weird. But that is off topic
About the gay marriages, it doesn't have to be religious, you can get married officially (at least in the eyes of the law) in some places.
There are a lot of things that don't involve anyone except the people involved, but I still think are wrong. As Farl mentioned, there is necrophelia (I didn't even know there was a word for it ), there is incest, suicide, prostituition etc. As society evolves, the concept of morality also evolves, and in a few years, all this stuff may be legalised.
So, I've been telling all the post long that "It FUCKS me"? Mmmm... Too posting about gays... I'll leave in that way for further laughs, though... ;D
And Babar, read carefully my post. The second part goes about two places where you can marry in front of the eyes of the law. The rest of the stalement ("fight for it in the places where you can't) is still valid.
But isn't Jenna really hot in that pic??? She's more slim now, isn't her??? ;D
I have nothing against gays as long as they hit on me
What do you mean with hit? I am missed or you'll have nothing against gays as long as they still try to pick you up?
Man, that's funny!
Farlander, same sex marriages are now legal in seven provinces in Canada and the legislation is currently proceeding (despite quite a few protests by the religious community, I might add) to legalize it nationally as well as change the legal definition of marriage.
Farl, it was a parodic reference to the very worn out cliché "I don't have anything against gays, as long as they don't hit on me."
This remark is surprisingly often uttered by ugly, sloppy, spaghetti-eating man-pigs.
QuotePosted by: Andail Ã, : "I have nothing against gays as long as they hit on me"
Quote from: Farlander on Thu 20/01/2005 13:09:55
What do you mean with hit? I am missed or you'll have nothing against gays as long as they still try to pick you up?
Man, that's funny!
Ã, Heheh.. Either it's a funny typo... or, he get's upset if gays don't hit on him / try to pick him up. Ã, :=
Ã, Ã, Ã, Anyways, Ã, it doesn't matter to me if a person is gay or not, it's their personal choice. Ã, Just try to respect each other regardless of sexual orientation I think is what people should strive for.
Yeah Petter, knowing in some way your sense of humour I was alsmost sure that you were not commiting a mistake when saying that... The thing that resulted so funny was that I misunderstood it and I've been very close to reply:
"You should take a position, because you're so handsome that some of them will finally try to pick with you"
But then I read it propperly.
Funny... as I said. :)
And Unilin, I told (This is the third time) that there are two countries where gy marriage is legal. One is Denmark, thanks for pointing that the other is Canada, or some of their provinces at least... But what does have to see with my "Fight for it if you care" stalement? I haven't expressed my opinions about gay marriage (actually it's a subject that does not interest me a bit...), I just told that with the nowadays legal enviroment IN MANY COUNTRIES that marriages can't be done.
Quote from: andail_unplugged on Thu 20/01/2005 14:14:53
Farl, it was a parodic reference to the very worn out cliché "I don't have anything against gays, as long as they don't hit on me."
This remark is surprisingly often uttered by ugly, sloppy, spaghetti-eating man-pigs.
I've never said that!
Okay, an interesting tidbit of news I just seen in which some US conservative groups are now claiming some cartoons are "brainwashing" kids and turning them gay. LoLÃ, :D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4190699.stm
Here's a few interesting quotes from that news-article:
"SpongeBob - who appears on the children's cable channel Nickelodeon - is seen as an icon for adult gay men in the US, apparently because he regularly holds hands with his sidekick Patrick. "
"...conservatives say it sees the video as a cunning attempt to promote homosexuality. "
"We see the video as an insidious means by which the organisation is manipulating and potentially brainwashing kids," Paul Batura, a spokesman for Focus on the Family, told the New York Times. "
-------------------------------
Ã, Ã, Hahah... Yeah, boy, that SpongeBob really turns me on... I think... after seeing how darn sexy of a sponge he is, and after seeing those SpiderMan dancer videos too many times... arrrgh, I'm being brainwashed.. I'm.. turning... GAY!! Help mEeEee... heheh..Ã, :=
Ã, Ã, But really, I think it's just stupid for someone to blame a cartoon for " insidously manipulating and brainwashing" people and promoting people to become gay.Ã, I hardly think an animated Sponge will turn anyone gay. * Puts in an Anime video of some cute guys dressed up as girls... *Ã, :-* Ahhh, errr.. okay now, go back to working on your AGS game now.. nothing more to see here.. Hehehe...Ã, Ã,Â
Holding hands is considered gay :o ?
Wow.... and here there is regular "hugging" between men for just a greeting.
Quote from: Farlander on Thu 20/01/2005 12:58:07
But isn't Jenna really hot in that pic??? She's more slim now, isn't her??? ;D
hahah....talk about insidious. You trying to test peoples sexuality? ;D
(http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/m/c/mcc171/dollar.jpg)
I was saving a buck for the first one saying that about lovely Jenna, Babar! It's yours!Ã, ;D
My basic view on gay marriage is: If you're defining marriage in non-religious terms, then homosexuals should be perfectly welcome to the benefits of the institution. If you're defining marriage purely in religious terms, then the government shouldn't have any involvement with it - marriage should be a purely private institution, and if necessary, the government should set up a secular alternative.
Maybe I’m being idealistic, but I just don't think governments should be in the business of discrimination.
As for the inevitable "next thing you know people will want to make marrying goats legal!!" reaction, if these people would use their heads before jerking their knees, they might notice that there is a key difference in that, unlike homosexuality, bestiality is a non-consensual act (with the possible exception of consensual dolphin sex - in which case I say knock yourselves out!).
Quote from: PaulSC on Thu 20/01/2005 17:52:01
As for the inevitable "next thing you know people will want to make marrying goats legal!!" reaction, if these people would use their heads before jerking their knees...
Should you use recognise that you haven't been using your head if I proove that an approaching to gay marryage has provoqued demmands of non-commonly accepted marryage forms?
http://es.news.yahoo.com/fot/ftxt/20050118173631.html
Well, it's in Spanish... google for translators!Ã, ;) But it tells that the "Council of superior Justice" wars that allowing gay marriage will make people to demmand "poligamic", "incestuous" or "zoophilic" marriages. 15 minutes after the bried, the muslim community demmanded tho allow poligamic marryage.
Which should be cool, if women were allowed to marry with many men, but the claim just wants "many women for men". And that puts women in a lower position in front of the law to men.
And that, goes against the Spanish Constition.
And no laws can go against the main source of laws... which is the constitution.
So, yeah, demmanding gay marriage makes that non-accepted ways of marriage are claimed.
So, use your head.
And... the best of all this, is that I am for gay marriage in front of the law... And religions doesn't matter me as long as I sold my soul to Blazed last week...Ã, ;D
But I want you to think twice before being that unfair with a portion of the society. A portion where I am not... but a portion I respect enough to say that "they don't use their heads".
errmm ... i'm a man ... but i'm lesbian ... i like girls a lot ;D ... but i respect anybody's choices ....
Obviously I'm not the best at online debates, so I always forget to mention something.
I do share the view that marriage is when two people love eachother and want to spend their lives together. That is exactly how I've always seen it. Obviously I am a Christian and follow the religious ideas given from the Bible and believe that there is a God. And I believe that God gave us the gift of life, the gift of the opposite sex, the gift of companionship, the gift of MARRIAGE, and the gift of sex.
Not knowing exactly if the Bible states it directly, so I can't say for certain, but I really don't think God intended for a man to have sexual relations with another man. I don't think he intended for them to get married either... And in my eyes (and the eyes of many other people,) marriage is reserved for man and women.. As it even says in the ceremonial speech. (I pronounce you MAN and WIFE.)
But then again, Marriage isn't only a Christian practice.. So I guess, if you're Muslim, Jewish, or Hindu.. Homosexuality could Ã, play into things differently.
I really hope I don't sound like a jerk.. And I REALLY hate it if I am contradicting myself. I know I am repeating myself, but I just want some clarity. I know I tend to look like and idiot most of the time.
And DG, I really don't understand the Cookie Monster reference.....
It's just a joke I got from another forum. It's not actually referencing anything. It's just a funny (if sarcastic) way of saying, "Well, there you have it".
Also, Christian or not, don't you think it's a little much to assume what God intended for man. I mean, I don't want to get too much into the philosphical nature of God, but he did give man free will so who's to say what God intended for man. I mean, to say that God is testing our faith by putting the possibility of homosexuality into our existence while giving us free will seems to me like... well... God is screwing with our minds.
Quote from: wyr3x on Thu 20/01/2005 18:32:46
errmm ... i'm a man ... but i'm lesbian ... i like girls a lotÃ, ;D ... but i respect anybody's choices ....
wow, there are just over a hundred replies and finally this guy does the "I'm a lesbian" joke, christ man did you read any of the replies or are you just takin the fuckin piss beotch?
And now on a more pertinant point, God loves everyone, he create us, he damn well should. Gays are god's children too, if they want to do stuff differently, let em enjoy their lives, they love each other, it's all good. The church is run by a few small minded old farts and a load of good guys, but they feel that they do not wish to cross the Pope and his cardinals. he may not wish to let gays marry or rear children but he's old an wont be livin much longer ( don't get me wrong, I still respect the guy, but you can't stop the inevitable) sooner or later he'll be replaced and hopefully by a good guy, and maybe all this can change for a new modern society. if not, it's bordering on nazism (well it is)
After all, the pope just works for god, he aint the almighty.........
Quote from: Matchew on Thu 20/01/2005 20:06:26
Quote from: wyr3x on Thu 20/01/2005 18:32:46
errmm ... i'm a man ... but i'm lesbian ... i like girls a lot ;D ... but i respect anybody's choices ....
wow, there are just over a hundred replies and finally this guy does the "I'm a lesbian" joke, christ man did you read any of the replies or are you just takin the fuckin piss beotch?
Dude, chill.
Okay, overall, arguing about this topic is pointless. It's not going to solve anything, let alone change someone's viewpoint. All it's going to do is make everyone grouchy.
The original point of this thread was that Peter Thomas was announcing his homosexuality. But then again, I really don't see the point of that considering homosexuals have spend so much effort making homosexuality accepted in society and "normal."
Oh well, never mind. I think the original purpose of this thread has been accomplished -- Peter Thomas announcing that he's gay. There is no need to turn it into a debate.
Go Peter Thomas! I wish you luck in all your endeavours... it isn't always easy being happy with youself, no matter what you are.
Bt
Quote from: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 18:46:00
Also, Christian or not, don't you think it's a little much to assume what God intended for man. I mean, I don't want to get too much into the philosphical nature of God, but he did give man free will so who's to say what God intended for man. I mean, to say that God is testing our faith by putting the possibility of homosexuality into our existence while giving us free will seems to me like... well... God is screwing with our minds.
Please explain how God could have made homosexuality IMpossible? Asexual reproduction? Really tight asses? Everyone having severe haemerrhoids?
Anyway, wouldn't free will be meaningless if you only had one choice?
Farlander:
My point was: just because accepting both would involve a change to marriage laws, doesn't mean that homosexuality must automatically be equal to bestiality (or even polygamy) - it seems to me that that's the implication when people shout "what next?!". Just because homosexuality, bestiality, necrophelia, pedophilia etc are all condemned by Christianity and/or society doesn't stop them all from being very different things that bring up very different issues.
I do understand the worry that "if you change one thing, then anything could be changed", but I'd be more inclined to take it seriously if it wasn't for the fact that inter-racial marriage was widely banned and morally condemned until relatively recently. The people who were against that were probably felt just as objectively morally correct and heaven-bound as the people who fight against gay marriage today, but how many will admit to being against inter-racial marriage in this day and age? Like it or not, everything has always been changing.
I am pro-gay marriage, but I was annoyed about the "they do not use their head". That sentence has less sense even now, that you say that you understand it... I guess it was a slip... no problems! :)
God didn't intend anything for humanity. Hence the "free will" we so dearly cherish.
/me gives the thumbs-up to Petey
And that is a VERY good point, PaulSC, well said!
For the whole God vs. Homosexuality thing, I think lgm's main poiint (and do correct me if I'm wrong) was that HIS SPECIFIC religion defined marriage as between a man and a woman ONLY, and did not allow homosexuality/gay marriage, but that his beliefs need not be taken as doctrine by others with other religions.
And, indeed, the Cristian bible (and the Jewish one, too) specifically forbids homosexuality. Well, okay, it actually forbids sex between two men, and doesn't really say much about other forms of homosexuality or gay marriage. The same parts also forbid bestiality, adultery, eating pork, and selling your daughter for the wrong price. Also, based on these old testament laws, polygamy is A-okay, and pedophilia and prostitution are kinda iffy.
I should point out that according to Christian doctrine, all laws of the old testament are superceded by Christ and the new testament. Jesus spoke quite highly and often about the sanctity of marriage, but (that I recall) he didn't bring homosexuality up much at all one way or the other. Again, do correct me if I'm wrong.
All of this is just my (possibly ill-informed) interpretation of the books I've read. Feel free to ignore me completely.
HoN
HeirofNorton: I'd like to see those verses you're talking about before I take anything you've said seriously. I recognize some parts, but I seriously doubt that there is a verse entirely like the one you mentioned. If you can show a verse, then I might have something worthwhile to reply with. People just shouldn't saying things about the Bible and/or God, unless they actually cite verses from the Bible itself to back them up -- even if they are Christians.
Check this link out for some answers, though I warn you - it's so bad it's good.
http://www.christianadvice.net/homosexuality_and_the_bible_wink.htm
Bt
Quote from: andail_unplugged on Thu 20/01/2005 14:14:53
Farl, it was a parodic reference to the very worn out cliché "I don't have anything against gays, as long as they don't hit on me."
This remark is surprisingly often uttered by ugly, sloppy, spaghetti-eating man-pigs.
I could only be flattered if gays hit on me, lol. I ask everyone, which is worse: being hit on by gays or being passed over as a "sloppy, spaghetti-eating man-pig" ... yet again?Ã, :P
Being passed over is definitely worse, modge. It's like gay guys getting the once over from a girl. It's flattering (albeit pointless and sometimes disturbing), and much better than getting that "Are you NATURALLY that ugly?" sort of glance.
So take it as a compliment, or else we'll all start writing on the toilet walls about you!
Quote from: Blackthorne on Fri 21/01/2005 01:51:31
Check this link out for some answers, though I warn you - it's so bad it's good.
http://www.christianadvice.net/homosexuality_and_the_bible_wink.htm
Bt
I laughed so hard I cried. I have no idea how he came to some of those wacky conclusions.
Personally I dislike the term "Christian" because you are lumping together so many different religions -- Catholics, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. -- whereas many people consider it all one single religion.
Again, it's pointless to argue. All people are doing is restating their beliefs and contradicting each other. What is the purpose of this? There is no purpose.
Biblewise, I think people take things waaaaay too far when it comes to the old testament. I mean, the New Testament God (supposedly - I'm an atheist myself) is much more merciful and compassionate. "Jesus' God" would probably not flood us like it did with Noah's people, and he would NOT "kill witches" - he would say "he that has never sinned cast the first stone". The fact that most people make points like this from the Old TEstament, and it alone, only convinces me further of... of...
...dang, I forgot my point. I HATE it when this happens.
Man, ha ha ha, remember when I had a heated religious debate with you over this, Mr Peter Thomas? Remember all those things I said? Do you? And then all the stuff YOU said?!!?? Man, you must feel really dumb now, huh?!
I think people should remember this so that next time I say something, they realize I am probably right.
Congratulations on your discovery, Mr Thomas!
Quote from: Flamboyant PC Salesman on Fri 21/01/2005 13:24:00
Man, ha ha ha, remember when I had a heated religious debate with you over this, Mr Peter Thomas? Remember all those things I said? Do you? And then all the stuff YOU said?!!?? Man, you must feel really dumb now, huh?!
I think people should remember this so that next time I say something, they realize I am probably right.
Congratulations on your discovery, Mr Thomas!
O_O
She finally told what everybody was thinking!
QuoteI think people should remember this so that next time I say something, they realize I am probably right.
I don't recall you telling us Peter Thomas was gay. Maybe I just missed the post you mentioned it in.
As I've mentioned in a previous thread, my dad is an ex-clergyman, I consulted him about this topic, and he replied with something he discvered in the seminary in the 70's. He said that Jesus was a very mellow guy who had one simple idea, he explained that Jesus was a lot like the universe, extremely complex, but at the end has a simple answer, that answer was "love thy neighbour as you would love your self" That's it! Eureka! we've had this idea for two thousand or so years, it's about time we understood it, gays are people who love each other, and we should respect that, it's their life, and God loves them (there aint no denyin that) All this bullshit about meat on fridays and contraception is a waste of time.
In conclusion leave gays to do what the hell they want, there aint nothin wrong with loving someone (unless it's like your cousin or a dead body or somethin coz in that case yer just plain sick >:()
Daniel, if I remember well, the flamessellPcboy Yufster made a passionate deffense of the gay marriage and Peter Thomas deffended the oposite.
I guess now that he was using all that passion and all that religious stuff to deny what was happening inside of him... Only he can confirm if my feeling is correct or not...
Quote from: Matchew on Fri 21/01/2005 14:12:07
All this bullshit about meat on fridays and contraception is a waste of time.
And, as with some of your previous posts, not relevant to Protestants, who don't have those Catholic restrictions....
Quote
In conclusion leave gays to do what the hell they want, there aint nothin wrong with loving someone (unless it's like your cousin or a dead body or somethin coz in that case yer just plain sick >:()
Not that I'm advocating it, but why is necrophilia wrong, anyway? And when does it become wrong? What if you're doing it with someone and they die, and you don't realise straight away... If it's OK to do it with something inanimate, like various plastic products available from all naughty retailers, then why isn't it OK to do it with an inanimate body? It's not as if they'll mind. OK, they're relaitves might be offended, but then they might have been offended if you'd done it while they were still alive even if they consented... It might be unhygenic, but then so are plenty of other things, so...
What??????
:-[
Quote from: TerranRich on Thu 20/01/2005 23:27:38
God didn't intend anything for humanity. Hence the "free will" we so dearly cherish.
How does not intending anything follow from giving us free will? Your two sentences have no logic progression.
Let me ask you this: what would be more rewarding. PLaying a game where you always win or Winning at a game where you copuld have lost? Or Creating a Robot that does everythign exactly as instructed or creating a robot that has its own intelligence and can make its own decisions? But if you made a robot that could make its own decisions, you wouldn't intend for it to destroy everything else that you had made and then claim that you didn't even create it.
It's really more of a taboo issue, SSH. A case of morals. Hardly anyone ever looks at a human body the way they look at, say, a mannequin, because they were once human. Don't try to explain. We are all a bit hypocrital or self-deceiving in that sense. Me, for instance, I have nothing against gay people... but, I don't feel comfortable near them. Nevertheless, I respect them and whatnot and yadda-yadda-yadda... but somehow the whole idea doesn't fit in right with me.
It's the way we were brought up - there's taboos inside us that we may not even be aware of.
EDIT - Hehe, beat ya, YOke! :=
Quote from: SSH on Fri 21/01/2005 14:36:03
Quote
In conclusion leave gays to do what the hell they want, there aint nothin wrong with loving someone (unless it's like your cousin or a dead body or somethin coz in that case yer just plain sick >:()
Not that I'm advocating it, but why is necrophilia wrong, anyway? And when does it become wrong? What if you're doing it with someone and they die, and you don't realise straight away... If it's OK to do it with something inanimate, likeÃ, various plastic products available from all naughty retailers, then why isn't it OK to do it with an inanimate body? It's not as if they'll mind. OK, they're relaitves might be offended, but then they might have been offended if you'd done it while they were still alive even if they consented... It might be unhygenic, but then so are plenty of other things, so...
What??????
:-[
This coming from the same mind that thinks up games with unicorns ad fountains and everything. :)
But you do make a point. I believe your point is this: Morals are works of fiction. I would have to agree. Morals is more or less a list of what's "popular", or rather what's really not.
That's why even the church keeps changing their interpretations of the Bible; after all a few thousand years have passed.
I think I've already mentioned that from an ultra careless attitude in front of what corpses represent (and as knowleadge advances dead meat is less considered as something representative of the person who was that meat) necrophilia shouldn't be seen as a "taboo".
But if the meat is not fresh, it's still disgusting!
After YOke and Rui's post... so... yeah! taboos is about morals. It is like making a threesome with your girlfriend. I wouldn't dare, but I know, that, if we do it and some other guy lies with her, nothing phisically changes in her, if we've followed the hygiene rules and all... (No jokes that a huge dick can phisically change a vagina, please :P we're talking of my girlfriend...)
Quote from: Farlander on Fri 21/01/2005 14:30:36
Daniel, if I remember well, the flamessellPcboy Yufster made a passionate deffense of the gay marriage and Peter Thomas deffended the oposite.
It's was a joke.
Yessssh, I guessed... But I feel like a complusive poster lately.. I must go back to bike riding and calm me down...
QuoteIt's was a joke.
WTF?! That's crazy. I don't believe you.
(http://llyric11.angelcities.com/fae/believe.jpg)
I believe there are some truly tasteless photoshopers out there
I'd say one of the main reasons necrophilia isn't allowed is because it's non-consentual - forgetting about whether the body is living or dead, you're basically raping it. And in our society dead people still have certain rights - I mean you're not allowed to dig up corpses and do whatever you want with them as far as I'm aware.
But what if you leave a clause in your will that says you're okay with the idea of people screwing your corpse? Probably still illegal, but SHOULD IT BE!?!? I say no!
That remember me the case of that man who voluntary donated their organs to another if he died... For the other to eat them... eeeeck!
(this is a reply to the FIRST post, the one where Peter "comes out of the closet", I still don't go into the religious discussion that followed, but if that heats up, I might as well join :) )
Dang! Rats! Blast it! I know everyone will hate me, but I am sorry to hear that. I remember that thread about premarital sex, where Peter posted some very good messages, so I kinda thought... Bah, I don't know. Anyway, Peter, you're NOT gay until you have had sex with another man. So, I guess you still have time ;D RIGHT? I mean, you still haven't...? Or...? I mean, you do understand tha being gay includes... *gulp* ANAL SEX?
Trying not to piss myself laughing while I'm typing this - people are just funny.
I was expecting Yuf to be the FIRST one to post - I can't believe it took her 'til page 7 to get a word in! Yes yes yes, you're right yuf - you're right and I'm wrong and I will never quesion you again :)
Harvester - I suppose you can think about homosexuality in purely physical terms if you want, but doesn't the bible say "even if a man LOOKS lustfully at another woman, then he has already commited adultery"? If it DOES (and I know it does....) then it's very much a psycho-mental-upstairs-inyourhead state of being, in which case I have already adulterated a couple of guys....
And as I said previously, this doesn't mean I'm abandoning everything I said before. It's extremely complex to explain unless you've been there yourself, but the christian faith still means something to me - I'm just not too sure exactly WHAT...
The only reason I wasn't first to post was because I hardly ever come here any more.
Believe me, if I'd have only known how right I was, I would never have left.
Quote from: Harvester on Fri 21/01/2005 22:24:48
Anyway, Peter, you're NOT gay until you have had sex with another man.
Does that also means a man isn't heterosexual until he has had sex with a woman? ;D
What a stupid thought.
Quote from: Kinoko on Thu 20/01/2005 11:14:25
Mr Hyde: Beautiful description of marriage there, at least what it should be ^_^ If you're not married already, go around telling the women that and you'll have no trouble
LOL. I'm not the smoothest with women, but if I ever do get married, I'm only doing it once, and I'm only going to say those things if I really mean them.
Besides, I'm not really in any hurry to get married. :)
Doesn't nature itself teach that homosexuality is wrong?
We all know the biology, but the vagina produces a lubricant for the penis while the anus does not.
For the population to continue, a man must be with a woman.
Animals propagate by the male and female.
When all that surrounds one points in one direction, how can it be seen any other way?
Peter: Some questions if that is okay with you...
-- Why do you think this is with you?
-- What has led you to reveal this?
If you wish to be private, PM me if you would.
Quote from: WanderLady on Sat 22/01/2005 05:18:39
For the population to continue, a man must be with a woman.
Animals propagate by the male and female.
When all that surrounds one points in one direction, how can it be seen any other way?
Actually, homosexuality in the animal kingdom is highly prevalent. Or bi-sexuality, if you will. Why? Because animals LOVE having orgasms, and they don't care where they come from.
Whatever. You know something shocking? People often [GASP] have sex because it feels good, not for procreation!!!!!!!!! SHOCKING!
Bt
Wanderlady, I don't presume to know anything for sure. I may very well be deluded into thinking I'm something I'm not, however, for the moment, this is who I think I am. It's hard to give a reason. Why do you think you're heterosexual? It's not the sort of question you can give a one sentence answer to.
As for why I revealed this, well, it was largely because I'd pretended to be something I'm not for so long, and it is INCREDIBLY oppressive, and destroys your self confidence. Revealing it publicly is sort of proof to myself that i CAN deal with this regardless of what peple think.
Another part of it is because I want people to talk to me the way I am. I'm sick of people asking "so do you have a girlfriend yet?" and I end up saying little more than "no, still happily single" when in all honesty I'd been seeing a guy for nigh on 6 months. This hasn't happened so much on the forums, but at least now I know it won't happen at ALL...
Quote from: WanderLady on Sat 22/01/2005 05:18:39
Doesn't nature itself teach that homosexuality is wrong?
We all know the biology, but the vagina produces a lubricant for the penis while the anus does not.
There is a difference between homosexuality and anal sex. It is possible to have gay sex without ever having anal sex. It is fully possible to be gay and never have any kind of sex at all. Just as it is possible to never have sex and still like the opposite gender.
Gah. I've got to stop visiting this thread. I had to rewrite this three times so I didn't go "BLARGH BLARGH BLARGH!! U IS TEH RONG!!!1!!!11!"
There's nothing moral about nature, Wanderlady. Ã, There is no right or wrong way, there is just the way that survives. Ã, Does nature also prove to us that celibacy is wrong? Ã, Do you use what's best for the propogation of your genes to base moral correctness on when they don't already fit with your belief system? Ã, No, of course not, you wouldn't kill off other's children or be a polygamist because it's what works well in the amoral natural world.
The "it's not natural" argument is stilly, in almost any situation.
Wanderlady,
(http://home3.inet.tele.dk/c-4/photogallery/George_Michael.jpg)
One day you will realize what the throbbing sensations in your groin are when you look at that picture, and when that happens, I will invite you around to my house for coffee and a slice or two of humble pie. And the pie will be filled not only with humble, but words. YOUR words. And it's gonna give you food poisoning, this Humble Pie. And as you vomit helplessly across my kitchen table, you will be spluttering and gulping and swallowing some of the vomit as you try to say, "I'm sorry Peter Thomas! I'm sorry Rusalka! I'm sorry everybody! I am sorry I spent so much of my -BLAAARRGHHH- life worshipping a God that acts like Rusalka's Friggin' FASHZZZER."
And then I will accept your apology and we will become best friends, and I will say things like, "I don't know what you see in that George Michael fellow," and you will say things like, "He's so dreamy! Not like that Keanu Reeves fellow!" and I'll be all, "Man, don't you start dissing on Keanu! He is the nicest guy!" And you'll be all, "Man, tell me more about Keanue Reeves!" And, with great pleasure, I will.
What does George Michael have to see with homosexuality? ???
Quote from: Farlander on Sat 22/01/2005 11:07:33
What does George Michael have to see with homosexuality? ???
;D
I have absolutely NO IDEA!! :D
In response to wanderlady................. christ bitch, aint you ever walked through a cow field in yer life, I mean they all fuck each other male or female, they just do it, and don't tell me you aint never seen two male bunnies at it at a pet shop. Geez live a little and come up with some decent arguments (some proof might help too) god I am so angry RRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.............................(sound of fist hitting monitor) Oh jesus that hurt! I'll be a while fixing up my hand, see ya............ >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Yes, fix your hand... and your modals... What's that of making a post whose spirit is "make better arguments" and you include pearls like: "Christ bitch, RRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH, ..................................... andÃ, >:( >:( >:( >:(" ?
In my opinion, even being closer to your position than to Wonderlady's, her post has infinite better arguments than yours (because she has one, and you just have emoticons).
Quote
I have nothing against gays as long as they hit on me
Hehe; a mate of mine who's gay likes to come on to homophobic men in order to wind them up, and it works surprisingly well ;)
Quote from: Matchew on Sat 22/01/2005 17:10:43
god I am so angry RRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH .............................(sound of fist hitting monitor) Oh jesus that hurt! I'll be a while fixing up my hand, see ya............ >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Blimey, calm down. What's the big stress?
Quote from: Matchew on Sat 22/01/2005 17:10:43
RRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.............................(sound of fist hitting monitor) Oh jesus that hurt! I'll be a while fixing up my hand, see ya............ >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Matchew makes a very persuasive argument. I would like to subscribe to his magazine/newsletter one day.
Quote from: Harvester on Fri 21/01/2005 22:24:48
Anyway, Peter, you're NOT gay until you have had sex with another man. So, I guess you still have time ;D RIGHT? I mean, you still haven't...? Or...? I mean, you do understand tha being gay includes... *gulp* ANAL SEX?
Heh, this reminds me of 80's vampire movies....The whole not a vampire till you drank blood thing, and having to kill the head vampire to free all the others.....
So, there you go Peter, if you ever get tired of the whole gay thing, seek out and destroy the head gay-vampire guy....heh
Oh, and George Michael can turn anyone gay, dont deny it.....
And now, Matchew, look a decent reply to Wanderlady:
"Even assuming that animals do not have homosexual behaves (Which is false, let's remember wolves, rabbits and George Michael...) that wouldn't necessarily be a "final evidence" that homosexuality is bad. Humans do a lot of things animals don't do. There are a little amount of species which use tools (Gorillas, chimpancés and some other simians use sticks, Vultures and Otters use stones...), but the main difference is that the human being do things that have nothing to see with survival or gathering knowleadge... Only dolphins have been prooved to make the sexual act just for fun, but... has any baby of any species but the human child hurt anybody (for example, ants) just for fun? No... animals are no cruel (*). They do many things that may be cruel, but all must be undestood in a learning process. So... maybe we must understand cruelty as a necessary knowleadge for the human? No matter if option a or b is correct... both make us different to animals! but human beings can focus that differences into something good. Painting, music, piety... So, our differences through animals must be undestood as that... differences, not as a something to resort when want to judge a human behaviour."
See? that's a reply... (full of crappy poesy, but a reply at least... Ã, ;D)
(*)Ok... It's been prooved that dolphins kill porpoises just for fun, ok? Who cares???
Quote from: Squinky on Sat 22/01/2005 17:36:50
Oh, and George Michael can turn anyone gay, dont deny it.....
Yeah, he wakes me up before I go-go!
Have a subtle homo-erotic play on words:
(http://photo.sing365.com/music/picture.nsf/SingerPicUnid/48256C71003578A2482568620010852F/$file/wham.jpg)
Quote from: Matchew on Thu 20/01/2005 20:06:26
Quote from: wyr3x on Thu 20/01/2005 18:32:46
errmm ... i'm a man ... but i'm lesbian ... i like girls a lotÃ, ;D ... but i respect anybody's choices ....
wow, there are just over a hundred replies and finally this guy does the "I'm a lesbian" joke, christ man did you read any of the replies or are you just takin the fuckin piss beotch?
read the replies, and then post ... "joke+my reply" ....
also, i would like to comment, i have 1 gay friend. He is a person, as everybody. Maybe somebody can bother him, but he will be still gay ... because HE CHOISES what he wants to be .... as everybody. EVERYBODY can do whatever he/she wants ... the only limit is the society .... you are gay and you wanna marry ? ... show your problem to society, thats how to won.
Hmm, I can't count the number of grammar errors in that last post.
Still, congrats on coming out and such, couldn't have been easy. If people don't respect you for what you are, they're probably worthless pieces of Daily Mail reading, narrow minded shit anyway.
Quote from: JimmyShelter on Sat 22/01/2005 00:16:48
Quote from: Harvester on Fri 21/01/2005 22:24:48
Anyway, Peter, you're NOT gay until you have had sex with another man.
Does that also means a man isn't heterosexual until he has had sex with a woman?Ã, Ã, ;D
What a stupid thought.
Well, I was kinda expecting that kind of question. I believe everyone's normal by default (normal means more that heterosexual, because if you have sex with your sister, you're still heterosexual), until they do something that violates that, shall we say, normality (something like having sex with another man, or a close relative, or an animal, or a plant, or a kitchen appliance,...). Or do you think imagining someone dead makes you a murderer?
I also think that using examples from animal world doesn't prove anything. Heck, I was hoping someone from the "opposite side" ;D would use that so I can make a witty reply, but oh well...
Btw, hi WanderLady, long time no see! I'm extremely sorry for still not replying to that mail, I was away from my comp for too long. I'll write you soon (promise).
I don't believe everyone is born heterosexual by default. The whole problem with your argument, Harvester, is that it is based on the assumption that heterosexuality is "normal" and anything else is abnormal and morally wrong. Comparing homosexual sex with murder just reveals how much of a bigoted idiot you must be.
I think we all know who's wrong and who's right, even if we're wrong. Why bother to argue? Until Wanderlady admits he has throbbing sexual urges when he is around other men, there will be no winners in this thread. I say we declare Tim Schafer the winner, and that way, we will all be winners! I hope my meaning is perfectly clear to you now.
Quote from: WanderLady on Sat 22/01/2005 05:18:39
Doesn't nature itself teach that homosexuality is wrong?
We all know the biology, but the vagina produces a lubricant for the penis while the anus does not.
Just wanted to point out that there are some pretty dry vaginas. . .and hetero couples that practice anal.
But anyhoo, who *is* the head-vampire in the gay types? I'd have said Liberace or Freddie, but they have both, unfortunately, passed on.
~~Bernie Laraemie
QuoteI believe everyone's normal by default (normal means more that heterosexual, because if you have sex with your sister, you're still heterosexual), until they do something that violates that, shall we say, normality (something like having sex with another man, or a close relative, or an animal, or a plant, or a kitchen appliance,...). Or do you think imagining someone dead makes you a murderer?
Seriously, you're an idiot. Apart from that point someone else made (I can't be bothered looking again), your argument makes no sense unless you believe the actual act of sex is the only way to express sexuality. What about being attracted to other people? Having fantasies? Drawing nudey pictures on your textbooks at school?
Could you all please, stop insulting people? What is this, a Gestapo forum? We fill our mouths with words like "freedom, freedom of speech, diversity of opinions" and politically correct words like that... and when you finally have the oportunity to put all that terms in practise you say things like "Christ bitch", "bigoted idiot" and, simply, "idiot".
Wonderlady and Harvester are showing us the opposite side of the coin, what's the problem? The gays members, who should be the most annoyed, are replying gently, because this is all of opinions... Peter and Bernie are understanding the act of DISCUSSION so muchbetter than you.
Why you, who are not that involved, are replying with such bitterness? It is that because you're in the "politically correct" side of the discussion? How brave of you!!!
Sincerelly, whereas I do not share the stalements Harv and Wonder are saying, I infinitelly preffer them to the replies of Kinoko, modgeulator and Matchew...Ã, :PÃ, :PÃ, :P
Quote from: Farlander on Sun 23/01/2005 08:40:22
Could you all please, stop insulting people? What is this, a Gestapo forum? We fill our mouths with words like "freedom, freedom of speech, diversity of opinions" and politically correct words like that... and when you finally have the oportunity to put all that terms in practise you say things like "Christ bitch", "bigoted idiot" and, simply, "idiot".
Wonderlady and Harvester are showing us the opposite side of the coin, what's the problem? The gays members, who should be the most annoyed, are replying gently, because this is all of opinions... Peter and Bernie are understanding the act of DISCUSSION so muchbetter than you.
Why you, who are not that involved, are replying with such bitterness? It is that because you're in the "politically correct" side of the discussion? How brave of you!!!
Sincerelly, whereas I do not share the stalements Harv and Wonder are saying, I infinitelly preffer them to the replies of Kinoko, modgeulator and Matchew...Ã, :PÃ, :PÃ, :P
Freedom of speech means both the right to say something stupid and the right for someone else to call you stupid for saying it. See, like how you just said all that, and like how I'm now calling you stupid.
The system works! ::)
I love world peace. Everyone here is just so darn......
(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay12.jpg)
Peter, just some questions, don't take this the wrong way though, I am just wondering:
Do you still believe in a God that gives you these urges, and then tells you they are a sin?
Do you believe you are "sinning"?
Or have you found some "loophole" in your religious teachings that say that it is not wrong?
To others, what is this thing with justifying someones urges? If someone feels someway, let them feel it, they have no need for justifying it or saying that it is wrong. Animals also have homosexual behaviour? I think that is only when there are separated from the opposite sex. So what? Do we have to compare ourselves to animals? And, oh, it is something in your genes that make you gay? SO? So if my genes make me a heavy drinker, that makes it ok for me to get drunk regularly?
All I am saying is that as long as you try justifying yourself with these "proofs" someone will always come up with opposite proofs in answer to your proofs. Why do you need to justify yourselves?
Off topic, but I never got the "Only dolphins do it for fun" thing....Does that mean that other animals don't do it for fun? Are they doing with the thought in mind that "Oh, I gotta get some kids now?" Since our systems are almost the same (at least for mammals), wouldn't it mean that they also get pleasure from these acts?
No, Farlander, Kinoko is right! You've gotta give her that, brother :)
Harvester, you made the worst argument so far...
"You're not gay until you have sex with a man" Says who?
Many homosexual couples don't even practice sex. And as someone else pointed out, being a straight virgin doesn't make you less straight.
There is no normal by default. I don't understand why people put so much gender into the love-thing. I believe you can feel strong feelings for any gender. I believe that without the norms of society, who we choose to fall in love with can be completely arbitrary.
Some animals have sex for the sake of strengthening the bonds within the group, and some are as intimiate with their own sex as with the other.
Some people aren't as interested in sex as others, but still have so much love to give. Some are metrosexual, some are bisexual, some are whateversexual. Just give up the idea that love is all about finding a person of the other gender, marrying them and having babies.
This is the age of aquarius, (quote) get updated, man.
I too represent Wanderlady's & Harverster's side.
Feeling lust for men is the same sin as feeling lust for women, it's what you do with that lust that defines if you are wrong or right. At least that's my oppinion. And do not confuse love with sex/hormonic desires etc. For me, I have heterosexual urges, but I love some guys more than I love the sexiest girl I've ever seen. Does this make me gay? Nah
It depends on your morals how you view lust, if you feel like uncontrollable lust is wrong, then you believe homosexuality is wrong too (no matter if you are religious or not)
I've never said that Kinoko is not right... I THINK SHE IS RIGHT! But she, and the others, do not have the right to tell people they're stupids because they think different.
And Modgeulator... I am not going to reply you... Thanks for calling me stupid without reason, that is a better reply than anything else I could say...
Freedom of speech includes not saying what you are allowed to say if you think that's going to hurt somebody...
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Sun 23/01/2005 13:12:57
It depends on your morals how you view lust, if you feel like uncontrollable lust is wrong, then you believe homosexuality is wrong too (no matter if you are religious or not)
Sorry, I must be a monster of liberation and depravation, but your comment simply flabbergasts me...so again...what is "uncontrollable" lust, and why is it morally wrong? Why is homosexuality wrong? Is "uncontrollabe" lust connected to homosexuality?
Why must there be a wrong?
Homophobia really is one of the most miserable ideologies ever - I mean, is there really any point to it beyond making other people's lives more difficult, lonely or generally unpleasant?
To proove that something is morally wrong we should find something that has been forever and everywhere understood as something bad. For example, hitting your dad is bad, no matter if you hit him in Spain, Korea, in the year 2005 or in the prehistory.
Homosexuality has been seen as something "bad", specially during and after the Middle Age. But it hasen't been allways like that, Let's remember that the squadron of Spartans, under Leonidas command, who was deffending the Thermoplie pass against the Persians of Gerges was totally homosexual... and they're supposed to be the most brave and deffinitelly were the most admired.
Raphael and Leonardo were bisexuals... In some way we can say that one of the main shots of the rennaicense was that homsexuality started to be more accepted.
So, I can't really say that "homosexuality" is something that the human being has in its brain cortex as something "bad"...
Leonardo DaVinci was a homo but also celibate.
Quote from: Jet X.L. on Sun 23/01/2005 15:07:25
Leonardo DaVinci was a homo but also celibate.
Oh... What a strange choice... ???
Homosexuality is your decision, (i.e. he/she who feels that way) not a bunch of homophobes, nor the clergy, nor the guy sitting next to you on the bus. If you decide to be homosexual, that's your buisiness. If you decide to hate homosexuals, that's your (admittedly childish (no wait, kids are better at understanding this than adults)) business. but you can't change the facts, and these are 1: homosexuals and lesbians are the way they are, they aint gonna change brother, 2: they obviously like their chosen lifestyle, so leave em to enjoy it, and 3: who gives a damn what somebody's sexual preferances are, I mean basic manners tells us that sex is one of the most private things there are (and no, I don't care what some tribes in south america deem manners) sex is none of your business if it isn't with you. mind your own business about gay sex, it's between two people as an expression of love and it's not to be discussed lightly. So have some manners and respect each other, because it's none of your business whether someone likes guys instead of Girls.
Geez, I need a drink! :(
Quote from: Jet X.L. on Sun 23/01/2005 15:07:25
Leonardo DaVinci was a homo but also celibate.
Damn, that celibate homo sure could paint.
Bt
(sorry about MY last and the comming errors .... i type fast :P )
homosexuality is a SOCIAL problem, and also a PERSONAL decition. why don't they marry ?: because they don`t let them. why they don`t let them ?: ... it is suppoused that is a loose of time, that love means to have children, and homosexuals are no going to have "their own" children. if they have "their own", it will not be from "woman-woman"/"man-man" ... and once it can be like that .... it will not be accepted because of an universal reason: fear ... as everything new and not so "orthodoxycal" .... i'm right ... ? ? ?
Quote from: wyr3x on Sun 23/01/2005 22:09:06
(sorry about MY last and the comming errors .... i type fastÃ, Ã, :P )
homosexuality is a SOCIAL problem, and also a PERSONAL decition. why don't they marry ?: because they don`t let them. why they don`t let them ?: ... it is suppoused that is a loose of time, that love means to have children, and homosexuals are no going to have "their own" children. if they have "their own", it will not be from "woman-woman"/"man-man" ... and once it can be like that .... it will not be accepted because of an universal reason: fear ... as everything new and not so "orthodoxycal" .... i'm right ...Ã, ? ? ?
Your complete lack of rules regarding grammar and punctuation make me think you are no authority on the rules of life. It's okay; I type fast too.
Bt
Quote from: Babar on Sun 23/01/2005 11:38:01
Peter, just some questions, don't take this the wrong way though, I am just wondering:
Do you still believe in a God that gives you these urges, and then tells you they are a sin?
Do you believe you are "sinning"?
Or have you found some "loophole" in your religious teachings that say that it is not wrong?
This is an incredibly hard thing to answer. As I've said a million times, I haven't abandoned my christian faith altogether. That is to say I still believe in the same God (though sometimes maybe not...) and whenever I read stupid bible-bashing posts, I'm still at the ready to totally defend scripture, and I do NOT believe that homosexuality is compatible with being christian. How can I feel this way? I'm not too sure, and I think that's a major part of my stress. I really don't understand how I can be gay and still be at the ready to defend scripture which says I'm destined for hell. Maybe it's just my social upbringing in the church. Maybe it's something deeper.
Quote from: Matchew on Sun 23/01/2005 16:54:51
Homosexuality is your decision, (i.e. he/she who feels that way). If you decide to be homosexual, that's your buisiness, but you can't change the facts, and these are 1: homosexuals and lesbians are the way they are, they aint gonna change brother, 2: they obviously like their chosen lifestyle, so leave em to enjoy it
I respect the fact that you're not being ANTI gay, however the manner in which you're being PRO gay is a little puzzling. Believe me, if I had my say in the matter, I would be heterosexual in the blink of an eye. I didn't wake up and think gee, I WANT to be gay. I prayed religiously every day for FOUR YEARS specifically that God would take away this temptation and I'd be free to get on with a heterosexual lifestyle. But after four years and absolutely NO change (if anything, the 'temptation' had become 10 times stronger) you feel like there's little or no point to resisting what apparently is going to stay with you forever. And whilst I don't DISLIKE my lifestyle, I think I would be MUCH happier as a heterosexual, so you can't say I'm gay because I like it.
And you'd be surprised the number of gay people who SHIFT from being gay to straight and back again and then doubling back and doing loop the loops with their sexuality. It's a funny business.
Aye, aye, a funny business...
OK, I feel I have to clarify my opinion here, before someone else calls me an idiot. Not that I'm offended or anything, heck, you should hear the words my friends and I use to call each other :)
1. I believe homosexuality is wrong. It's that simple. It's my opinion. It's not gonna change if I come here and pretend I'm "politically correct" and say "Hey, it's OK to be gay, let's all be one happy little community!". So, I'm only stating my opinion.
2. I did NOT compare homosexuality to murder. I merely used murder as a weird example. Probably could have found a better one, though.
3. By condemning HOMOSEXUALITY I by no means condemn HOMOSEXUALS (notice the difference?). I know Graham Chapman was a gay and I still enjoy Monty Python. I know Clive Barker is gay, yet I just LOVE some of his stories / books (Weaveworld ROCKED!). They say Caravaggio was a gay, and I still love almost all of his paintings. They say the same for Marcel Proust, and Swannsway is still one of my favorite books. And so on, and so on...
4. I didn't mention this before - my opinion on anal sex is that it is wrong in all possible incarnations, including the man-woman thing.
5. One more thing (I probably forgot to answer to many people, I'll try tomorrow, I'm kinda tired today because I spent hours and hours playing Blair Witch: Elly Kedward Tale. And I finished it! :)) :
If you think that when two men decide to have a homosexual relationship, it is no wrong because they don't harm anyone and it's their own business what they do with their bodies, answer me this: Can we call incestuos (sp?) relationship between brother and sister wrong if they both agree to do it? One answer I DON'T want to hear is "Are you nuts, you damn four-eyed freak? Are you really comparing incest with homosexuality???".
Just to clarify something... Peter, I'm so sorry for being one of the people turning your happy thread into an argument, I honestly mean no offense and I'm sorry.
Secondly, I'm sorry if me calling someone an idiot has offended, but I do believe that freedom of speech doesn't simply mean people stating their case, but also others being able to give their opinion on that opinion. More than that, it's just hard for me to let people go on stating views I believe to be outright wrong without meeting at least some kind of opposition. I -do- think Harvester's post was idiotic. To me, these are all the sorts of beliefs that lead to the lingering homophobia and hatred in this world.
Also, Farlander, I adore your KITT lights.
Kinoko; Harvester; whoever else - absolutely no offence taken.
Mostly because I've shared your christian beliefs for the last 18 years or so, and would probably be saying EXACTLY what you're saying were this happening to someone else and NOT me.
I completely respect that you see homosexuality as a sin; and as far as the bible goes, I'd have to agree with you 100%. I think everyone know's everyone else's viewpoints, so there's little point to saying "you're wrong: here's why!". You just can't change what someone else emphatically believes in a 100 word post!
I honestly don't mind the open, argumentative disucssion, though. I'm genuinely interested to see what other people think of this whole thing.
Many interesting replies, and I've definitely gotten a few surprises from members I thought were a bit more liberal than they turned out to be. In any case, I don't have any problem with someone being racist/sexist/homophobic - what have you, as long as they keep it to themselves. This thread is, of course, an exception since opinions were encouraged.
There have been questions about condoning murder, incest, animal acts; and they've all been poor analogies and way off base. The prerequisite for the two consenting adults doing whatever they want behind closed doors is that word - adults. The law protects their rights by making sure they've reached adulthood so they're not being taken advantage of, so if they're both fine with whatever activity they choose to pursue, I really don't see what business it is of ours.
The hypocrisy of some of the religious types (nobody in particular here, and more picking on the people than the religion) is amazing. The bible says God killed a man for masturbation (spilling his seed on the ground), the ten commandments are violated constantly, and casual sexual relations abound in nearly every sect. Homosexuals were executed (in accordance with God's law) in the old testament but Jesus changed the rules a bit: Hate the sin, not the sinner/ I say to you no longer an eye for an eye /love thy neighbor as thyself / do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Strangely, I couldn't find a single verse wherein Jesus condemns homosexuality. Sure, there are some by Paul (aka Saul "Paul" of Tarsus), and I believe one or two in letters from apostles (non JC quotes though). The majority of Christians today (or at least those I've met from West to East coasts in the US) are so full of themselves and they're religion that they spit upon Jesus' teachings. Caring about others, putting yourself second, hating sin itself and wanting better for the sinners - but not hating them, how often is this practiced? I'm sure a homosexual hates it just as much when a Christian claims they need to be freed from their sin of homosexuality but at least it's coming from a better motivation than, "It just disgusts me."
Ooo.. I knew I shouldn't have joined in. I know too many gay/bi people and I'm living around San Francisco so it's a bit more liberal here and this issue isn't one I take lightly. It seems to me that the population in general just needs something to hate. Blacks, Chinese, Communism, homosexuality have all made their rounds. The hate just gets less superficial as time goes on and people have to actually invade people's private lives in order to find something worthy of odium.
Quote from: Farlander on Sun 23/01/2005 13:17:45
And Modgeulator... I am not going to reply you... Thanks for calling me stupid without reason, that is a better reply than anything else I could say...
Freedom of speech includes not saying what you are allowed to say if you think that's going to hurt somebody...
That's a nice little trick "I am not going to reply to you" followed by a reply to the person. You get to have that whole Zen-master / Ghandi thing going on, tell someone they're below you AND say what you think all at the same time.
And no, that is not freedom of speech. You're confusing it with boring, old politeness. Don't forget, your initial post was quite aggressive. I think you even made comparisions with the Gestapo... :P
Eh, making blanket statements on things is a risky buisness. You should reserve your opinions for people on a case-by-case basis.
Bt
I don't follow Christianity or Catholicism or anything like that, but I'd like to believe that if there is a God, he wouldn't send someone to hell purely on the basis of who he or she has sex with. I'm pretty sure that if you're a good, kind, and honest person, God looks past your "sins".
And that's all I have to say in this thread.
Daniel? Are you feeling okay? No humourlessly offensive witticisms or ANYTHING?!
(http://www.sylpher.com/DGMacphee/Photoshop/ThatWackyJesus006.jpg)
And that's all I have to say in this thread.
Now THAT'S more like it!
Thanks Kinoko, you've come back to the group of people "who I can discuss with"! (But the KITT lights have been made by Darth Mandarb, over an idea of Squinky, I think...) :)
And modgeulator, I did not type the reply I thought for you, and I won't type it here... the second part of my reply was totally un-related to you, so, I think I was not using a Zen trick or something.
So, if you think that ASKING if this are Gestapo forums after a very harsh reply to a member to another deserves me to be called idiot, ok... yourself...
Quote from: Farlander on Sun 23/01/2005 08:40:22
Wonderlady and Harvester are showing us the opposite side of the coin, what's the problem? The gays members, who should be the most annoyed, are replying gently, because this is all of opinions... Peter and Bernie are understanding the act of DISCUSSION so muchbetter than you.
Personally, I don't think this is so much a fact of tolerance for us, but of fatigue. . .I too grew up in a Christian home and have heard the arguements against everything on all sides.
Hate to speak for Peter, just voicing my two cents.
Also,
I hate seeing what right people, not just gays, don't have, and it's the pessimist in me that just shuts down and doesn't reply. . . but I like seeing the attitudes from many of you, and the grace with which the opposition presented their cases.
~~Bernie
Bernie! How DARE you speak on my behalf! And for only two cents?! WTF?!
[/kill bernie]
Okay, maybe I've had a bit too much wine. Or not enough, depending how you look at it.
I think Bernie's got some of it right though. I've heard the arguments against homosexuality a thousand times, and when someone talks about it in terms of "normal" and "the others" then I know it's of little use to try to talk about it in practical and especially literal means. One learns to mellow out after a bit, as I think fellow AGS-ers are beginning to learn after their 20th unheeded/ignored/flamed post.
But yes, I'm still genuinely interested in what you think, so don't hesitate to say it!
Just so I can have the 200th post, I'm curious to see what people see differently in me. I'm still the same person, I've just trusted you people enough (and accepted it within myself enough) to let you all know. It seems as though some people have suddenly changed their opinions of me. Not anything that's been explicitly said, just interpretation....
It would be interesting to see the demographics of people from either side of this debate. Which countries/areas do most people who consider homosexuality a sin/crime/shame come from?
PS:
As it comes to you, Peter, I didn't react whatsoever after your announcement. Even if I had known you better before, I would still not care about your sexual preferences.
After all this stuff I've realised that there's something that has changed on you that I don't like Peter... :P
Spoiler
Wasn't you who had Vegeta in your avatar? I liked Vegeta, why have you changed it???
Farlander - that's IT! This friendship is OVER! ;)
Spoiler
No, really - it IS!
Vagita USED to be cool, but then yellow spiky thing on green icy looking surface became cooler.
Really, even if someone thinks your homosexuality is a sin from a Christian standpoint, I can't see why that should make a difference to how they treat you. I mean "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god". So, since we're all sinners, it's hardly news that Peter is one. I'm one too. Great! The whole point about Jesus's mesage being "Good News" is that you're forgiven, not that you're perfect and church leaders are often the first to forget this. Get a t-shirt made for when you hang out with dogmatic christians: "Judge not, yet ye be judged yourselves"
Try this out on them. See if they think these peopel would be good Christians:
1. A couple who had recently made a ofrtune on the property market and wanted to give some to the church
2. A guy who decides that he doesn't think much of Peter's New Testament teachings
3. A guy who did miracles as part of his own ministry but wanted to get involved with more mainstream Christianity, learning and contribute his wealth towards it
4. A guy who is on record as denying his faith when it suited his purposes, and then was all for it again a couple of days later
5. Leader of a cult who went into churches and trashed them, claimed he could do miracles and showed little respect for many establish church leaders and once described St Peter as "Satan"
Spoiler
1. Ananias and Sapphira
2. Paul
3. Simon Magus
4. Peter
5. Jesus
I think if Jesus stepped back down on earth to see what became of his ideas, he'd slit his wrists right on the spot. Especially if he went to the USA first.
The real dangerous people aren't Christians, though, or gays or terrorists or vegetarians, but simply DUMB people.
Somebody once said: The seed of evil grows best on dumb soil.
How damn right he is.
Anyways, good luck to you, Peter. I don't think different of you now, but of some other people who posted here.
Quote from: khrismuc on Mon 24/01/2005 12:47:02
I think if Jesus stepped back down on earth to see what became of his ideas, he'd slit his wrists right on the spot. Especially if he went to the USA first.
As deeply blasphemous and offensive as I could find that, I nearly wet myself laughing.
In fact..... oh....
*grabs clean underwear*
To clear things up: I don't hate gays, lesbians or whatever. I know some gays and I have a friend who's bisexual, yet I treat her like I would treat anyone.
I can't really convince you that homosexuality is wrong, it's just my oppinion. The purpose of sex is obviously to have children (even though the vast majority of life does it for fun).
Like what many guys said, nobody is perfect. Christians sin too, some less some more. I have no right to tell everyone "you are going to hell cause you do this and this" when I sin DAILY, like every human walking on this earth.
Nah, the purpose of sex is having fun...
Never seen a porn movie, Guybrush? ::)
Dude the only reason sex exists in nature is for having children. If nature made sex unpleasent, nobody would have children ::). Just think of that :P
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Mon 24/01/2005 14:49:02
If nature made sex unpleasent, nobody would have children
I beg to differ on that point, actually - Humans are one of the few living creatures that have an enjoyable sexual experience. For many animals it's painful (Koalas, Lions, etc), or feels like nothing much at all (for the creatures whose nervous systems or reproductive organs are less developed, like insects). The natural instinct to reproduce is the reason most living creatures have sex and give birth (Which, I am told, is far from a pleasant experience while it's happening). That's why most animals go into heat - their biological makeup, along with certain environmental factors, tells them 'you're ready to go, so get to it quick'. Only certain mammals, such as primates, have sex because 'it feels good'. The rest are just doing it because they're biologically predisposed to doing so.
My guess is that even if sex sucked for humans, like it does for much of the rest of the animal kingdom, we'd still go on doing it (though probably a lot less), because the greatest urge for most humans is to 'leave their mark' - through progeny, usually.
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Mon 24/01/2005 14:49:02
If nature made sex unpleasent, nobody would have children ::). Just think of that :P
Wow! So nature just woke up one day and decided to make sex pleasant. That was sure kind of nature. It's just a shame nature didn't make my flu vaccines pleasant. My doctor keeps telling me they'll do me good in the end, but I think he's lying cause they hurt like buggery. Score one for my doctor, score one less for nature.
As yes, nature made sex pleasant so we'd keep doing it and have children. Interesting view. A purpose for everything in life. I guess that means the only reason nature created hurricanes and tornados was to keep the human population down and maybe some extreme kite flying.
"Dude, check out the gusts I'm getting! NATURE IS AWESOME! Whoops, that cyclone just killed me! NATURE IS BOGUS!"
I'm glad that a 16 year-old can explain the great mysteries of nature with such simple explanations, cause these questions have been bugging scientists and philosphers for centuries. Come next Nobel prize time, I'm nominating Guybrush Peepwood for science!
So... Sterile people wouldn't have sex because they'll never have a child? Interesting...
*Edit* I think I've had like *mgphundred* sexual relations and, as far as I remember, in none of those I was looking for a baby, but... well... it is pretty obvious that you know what are you talking about... dude...
And... don't know... maybe we should ask ourselves the meaning of the Restaurants, because, whereas the objective of eating is to be nourished (And that could be archieved with pills and non cooked meat) they're making it better... Damn sinners!
:)
Do you see now that things can be took out of its primitive context and improved?
P.S. If we count the sexual acts I had alone, the *mgphundred* cyfer reaches *mgphthousends* ;D And in none of that was I looking for a baby...
I though the meaning of life was 42.
GuyPeep! You mean that vasectomies are heresies! I better cancel my appointment...
Actually there is a species of monkey who share the similarity with humans that both males and females enjoy sex. In their society sex is used to strengthen bonds and relieve tension as well as for procreation.
If you want me to spell it out for you, this means that sex has other functions in nature than procreation, and that it is not something humans invented to spite God.
The world would improve a lot if we stopped trying to be better than animals all the time.
I suppose I should clear up, for the sake of posterity, that my only real point in my previous post is that 'Bad sex doesn't necessitate the lack of reproduction'. I'm personally on the 'pro sex for the sake of sex' side of the fence as it were, but thought that I'd clear up the whole misconception that things that don't enjoy sex avoid it.
I like to think of things as one step further than "sex for the sake of sex" to the point of "sometimes nature just does crazy things which no one can explain". And I think the problem for a lot of people, whether from a scientific, religious, or any analytical background, is that they need explainations for everything.
Sometimes there are no explainations and we should just enjoy our lives without needing to rationalise/analyse/moralise all the time.
Sounds like a pretty sound philosophy to me. I tend to overanalyze things like many others, I suppose.
Anyway, I didn't really intend to join in on this particular topic, I seem to have gone somewhat off topic as it is. I'm going to step back and let the people who want to debate do so.
Okay, that post was half joking. I don't give a dime if lions like having sex or not and I was talking more about humans, my bad I didn't know that fact though. But if most species do not find it enjoyable then all it does is prove my point.
So what if I'm 16, does that take away from me the right to express my opinion? I try to get in a conversation and all I get is Christian haters telling me not to be hateful, rude people telling me to be smarter. I'd nominate DG for the "respect thy neighbor" prize if there was such thing.
But anyways, if you all believe the sole purpose of sex is to have fun, then all I can say to you guys is "have fun"
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Mon 24/01/2005 16:40:35
So what if I'm 16, does that take away from me the right to express my opinion? I try to get in a conversation and all I get is Christian haters telling me not to be hateful, rude people telling me to be smarter. I'd nominate DG for the "respect thy neighbor" prize if there was such thing.
Chill out, man. I wasn't saying, "You're not allowed to express your opinion cause you're 16 and I'm a Nazi". I was saying, "Hey, maybe you haven't thought this through enough." As for mentioning your age, I just found humourous that a 16 year old could give such a definate answer when people of greater experience have spent many, many years researching the same thing. So, you don't have to get defensive and start calling me a Christian Hater. Just take a deep breath, think about your original post a little more, and move on.
And I do respect my neighbour. He just bought a new motorbike. He's pretty awesome.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 24/01/2005 16:23:56
Sometimes there are no explainations and we should just enjoy our lives without needing to rationalise/analyse/moralise all the time.
DG, I once took you as a silly prohpet, whom I could rely on for wit and wisdom, but now I see that I cannot, for I spell "realize" with a 'Z', much like I would spell rationalize,analyze, and moralize. What a harsh world we live in.
Quote from: GuybrushPeepwoodSo what if I'm 16, does that take away from me the right to express my opinion?
No, it certainly does not. It does, however, generally preclude you from being anywhere close to something that could be construed as "correct"!
Quote from: DGMacpheeAnd I do respect my neighbour. He just bought a new motorbike. He's pretty awesome.
Did you know Jesus rode a Harley? (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/u/ugly-kid-joe/142027.html)
Bt
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Mon 24/01/2005 15:17:14
For many animals it's painful (Koalas, Lions, etc), or feels like nothing much at all
So erm, how did you discover this ... or had I better not ask?
Quote from: Pumaman on Mon 24/01/2005 20:20:57
So erm, how did you discover this ... or had I better not ask?
Heh, it was something I remembered from biology class back in High School. My teacher thought it necessary to let us all know that we were the lucky ones that got to enjoy the act, and it stuck with me (for the same reasons, I imagine, that it did with you). The Koalas and Lions thing I managed to find as definite examples by googling "mating is painful" (http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%22mating+is+painful%22&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official). They're the first and third pages that come up.
...I suppose it would sound a little odd without foreknowledge, wouldn't it?
Quote from: Pumaman on Mon 24/01/2005 20:20:57
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Mon 24/01/2005 15:17:14
For many animals it's painful (Koalas, Lions, etc), or feels like nothing much at all
So erm, how did you discover this ... or had I better not ask?
Coming from the PUMAman I can't help to wonder wether he's cracking a joke or looking for a date...
Quote from: Blackthorne on Mon 24/01/2005 19:34:55
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 24/01/2005 16:23:56
Sometimes there are no explainations and we should just enjoy our lives without needing to rationalise/analyse/moralise all the time.
DG, I once took you as a silly prohpet, whom I could rely on for wit and wisdom, but now I see that I cannot, for I spell "realize" with a 'Z', much like I would spell rationalize,analyze, and moralize. What a harsh world we live in.
In Australia, we spell it "phofet".
Quote
Did you know Jesus rode a Harley?
http://yourmajormalfunction.blogspot.com/2004/10/that-wacky-jesus-5.html
Sex has NOTHING to do with kids. That's like saying kissing was invented so we can share cold sores.
For Andail: Me, I'm from former Yugoslavia (more precisely - Bosnia, but I rarely mention that since I kinda hate being called a Bosnian). Most people here are pretty conservative (though not many of them are religious), so you may imagine why I'm such a homophobic bastard. Ã, :)
For Yakk: Very good point! If you read my comments, I don't think you'll notice I ever said anything against ANYONE, I only expressed my views on the homosexuality. Heck, looks like only Peter Thomas is not offended by my comments Ã, ;D And Farlander, too. Well, also Wanderlady and Guybrush. And a few others. Oh well...
Would now be an appropriate time to tell the community I was joking?
EDIT: For the sake of peace and love - and because if I don't clear this up I will be flamed for the rest of my life - I am NOT joking. It was just a question to see if it was an appropriate time to SAY I was joking. Heh. Oh yeah - that was good. Totally smoooooth. Joking about a joke.
*wins prizes*
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 24/01/2005 16:23:56
Sometimes there are no explainations and we should just enjoy our lives without needing to rationalise/analyse/moralise all the time.
It'll be good for the economy!
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Mon 24/01/2005 23:40:47
...kissing was invented so we can share cold sores.
It's a fun way to collect something! Hey, everyone has to have a hobby!
Bt
I collect left hands
~~Bernie L
(. . .who is hoping other people saw that South Park ep too. . .)
Gaaah! I doesn't understand! Its teh p3nish! All mammalses share teh p3nish! Or teh vaj1naaaa! Both hases lotsa lotsa nerves! Hence teh "Good feeling" when doing it! Doing it! WHY should it hurt anyone? Why shouldn't all mammalses enjoy it? I doesn't understand!!!!!!!!
*Babar goes nuts
On a side note, I collect internet cards
Totally out of topic, but for increasing the knowleadge of my poor friend Babar... Let me tell you that, for example, the penis of the lion has some kind of "hooks" that make the act harmfull to the female lion...
And Chris, I know because I have Discovery Channel...
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 24/01/2005 16:53:50
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Mon 24/01/2005 16:40:35
So what if I'm 16, does that take away from me the right to express my opinion? I try to get in a conversation and all I get is Christian haters telling me not to be hateful, rude people telling me to be smarter. I'd nominate DG for the "respect thy neighbor" prize if there was such thing.
Chill out, man. I wasn't saying, "You're not allowed to express your opinion cause you're 16 and I'm a Nazi". I was saying, "Hey, maybe you haven't thought this through enough." As for mentioning your age, I just found humourous that a 16 year old could give such a definate answer when people of greater experience have spent many, many years researching the same thing. So, you don't have to get defensive and start calling me a Christian Hater. Just take a deep breath, think about your original post a little more, and move on.
And I do respect my neighbour. He just bought a new motorbike. He's pretty awesome.
The "christian hater" was not aimed to you but anyways... I didn't claim what I say is absolutely correct and again I remind you I wasn't serious about the "sex is fun so we do it and have babies" part. But anyways I'll shut up now.
Edit: But I still say that the reason behind it is kids
Ok now I'll really shut up
Quote from: Harvester on Mon 24/01/2005 23:42:28
For Yakk: Very good point! If you read my comments, I don't think you'll notice I ever said anything against ANYONE, I only expressed my views on the homosexuality. Heck, looks like only Peter Thomas is not offended by my comments Ã, ;D And Farlander, too. Well, also Wanderlady and Guybrush. And a few others. Oh well...
Actually, I wasn't addressing you specifically. I wasn't offended by your comments. Unlike some masochists, if I were to find something offensive, I'd ignore it. Rather, I addressed issues revolving around conservatism, religion and hypocrisy because I was enjoying the discussion. Coming from an ultra-conservative, uber-religious household, I know well the viewpoints other than my own (and have essentially agreed to disagree with my parents) but do enjoy discussing them with people that can present their case intelligently or, at least, intelligibly.
As for Peter Thomas (which sounds like some mutated apostle hybrid), you've conducted yourself maturely and intelligently enough that I couldn't care less which viewpoint you blather from, whether it be from a Christian view, gay perspective or some mad conglomeration of both. Just keep it up.
As for Christians arguing that sex is for reproduction, you obviously haven't read your bible much. There are a couple references to it being something a man and wife do to be closer without any prerequisite need for attempted conception. Granted, you still have the point of man and
wife but your other argument fails.
Genesis 2 v24 - For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one fleshAs for homosexuality in nature (and last I checked, weren't people natural?) some species exhibit it. Sometimes it's to show dominance, sometimes merely misguided instinct but it happens. There was an experiment with a species of butterfly wherein through genetic manipulation, they created a homosexual butterfly. Yes, I'll grant the point now - it was forced, not found. However, any amount of splicing and dicing we can do could very well have happened many times over through vehicles of mutation and adaptation.
Perhaps homosexuals are mutations or cast-offs of the growth of the human species but even in that case, I could never find the necessary amount of arrogance and ignorance within myself to hate a person for the sole reason of external differences (particularly one that doesn't affect me in the slightest). That's quite a statement considering how friggin' pompous I can be sometimes. Actually, I take it back... a guy I know was born without an appendix. I can't stand that freakish bastard.
Homosexuality is a deviation or mutation, as is red hair and blue eyes.
This is coming from a red headed, blue eyed gay man. . .
~~Bernie L
Quote from: BernieLaraemie on Tue 25/01/2005 13:54:07
Homosexuality is a deviation or mutation, as is red hair and blue eyes.
This is coming from a red headed, blue eyed gay man. . .
~~Bernie L
FREAK!Not that there's anything wrong with that.........Ã, ;D
Bt
There isn't?
Dammit, I wanted to be deviant. . .
~~Bernie L
Try fucking a cactus. Not only will you be a deviant, but people will look at you with a new respect.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 26/01/2005 10:43:57
Try fucking a cactus. Not only will you be a deviant, but people will look at you with a new respect.
And he knows it by experience! There are a lot of cactus in Australia!
You see, i TOLD you everyone respects Australians...
Or I could do the Paris Hilton thing and go for a pineapple. . .
"I CHALLENGE YOU TO A WHORE OFF, BITCH!!"
LOL.
~~Bernie L
I must be the most normal one to have ever posted in this enormously gigantic thread. :)
Nonsense! Utter, complete nonsense.
But this is becoming "enourmously gigantic" I would agree. Almost gigantic enough to win a certain person a certain "Biggest surprise 'coming out of the closet' " FOREGO Award?
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Thu 27/01/2005 06:21:36
Almost gigantic enough to win a certain person a certain "Biggest surprise 'coming out of the closet' " FOREGO Award?
Ah, and now we see the motivation for the entirety of the devious "Gay Agenda
©."
© Gay Agenda is copyright Homosexuals, Inc.
I didn't try to HIDE it.... It just never really came up is all...
nah, but if people continue to reply in this arbitrary manner, we might move it to popular or something...
A fiery discussion is fine, it's the unstructured and uninspired aftermath that bothers me
Quote from: Andail on Thu 27/01/2005 14:37:50
A fiery discussion is fine, it's the unstructured and uninspired aftermath that bothers me
Well, sir, I certainly fail to see where your comments add to the discussion at all.
I haven't much more to say upon the subject at the moment, but someone brought up an interesting question. I wonder how a demographic map would look, taking locations and stances on homosexuality into account. In most forums, I couldn't care less and would certainly not give two shites about a public survey. However, this place's beliefs interest me as this is one of the more thoughtful groups I've come across (with an exception for DG of course).
Edit by Andail: I'm a moderator, I reply and comment where it pleases me, thank you very much
What about the "10 % of the population is gay" stalement? Do you think that percentage repeats everywhere? That should demostrate it's not a matter of education but better something in your DNA, like being blonde or with green eyes (I am not saying that's a "bad gen" like the ones that makes people be a psycho killer or something, if someone want to aks, ok?)
I would really like to see those graphics, as Yak said.
Btw does anyone have a good source for the 10% figure? Seems a bit high. Or I have a lot of friends & family that's still in the closet. ;D
Edit: I meant 10, not 1 ::)
Wow... If you think 1% is high, imagine the figure I've heard... Actually, 10% would mean that of 2,500 agsers, 250 are gays. We only have 2 identified, so, come one guys! Get out of the closet! ;)
It seems the 10% thing is a popular myth based on some old, misguided research. I think the recent researsh suggests the average figure for people who are exclusively homosexual is closer to 1% or 2%.
That shouldn't really change anything, though.
As a fan of the Dyscovery channel's mythbusters series, I am really opened to agree when everybody comes busting a myth, specially if you've seen revent researches... I am not sure of the "exclusively homosexual" thing... Are you talking of bisexuals?
But then, still 23 agsers who are in the closet... ^_^
Right. To avoid enourmous threads like this, let's add "sexual orientation" to the agsforums registration! Something like
Are you:
* hetero-
* bi-
* homosexual, or...
* in the closet yet?
Then we have a clear picture.
Just imagine if there's really 250 guys around there to come out from closet one day! with all the debates along! d-d-disaster! Forums would be down again for a week. And then again... :'( 250 times in a row?
Actually, research I'd seen said that 10% of people were born with the gene that 50% of the time causes homosexuality.
And, as for the 250 of 2, 500 AGSers, I think that perhaps gays flock to certain thing and not others. Not all the time, but there are more gay men in fashion, music etc. then say sports.
Not to say it never happens, myself and Peter as examples, but perhaps programming and making isn't a gay niche.
THen again, I believe both Peter and I are musician. . .and of course art is gay stereotype too:)
Just some varied opinions,
~~Bernie L
Quote from: theyak on Fri 28/01/2005 08:42:53
However, this place's beliefs interest me as this is one of the more thoughtful groups I've come across (with an exception for DG of course).
Yah, and you're the pinnacle of thought. Just take a look at my sig! ;D
Okay, that whole genetic-homesexuality thing is just bullshit. I'm sorry. I went to school with a set of identical twins.
Later in life, one came out of the closet - the other is still resolutely hetero. So, which one is lying?
Bt
That is your whole arguement?
You knew some twins [and indentical is just a word to describe them, they aren't completely the same 100%] and one became gay.
I also knew some twins, one was gay and liked lacross, the other was straight and liked soccer... Man they must not have been very identical at all. I mean, they should like the exact same thing and talk the exact same way and like the exact same foods, since they're identical...
bah, you get my point, at least I hope so
I bet you could also tell the twins apart after knowing them long enough cause you could see the differences between the two. I know I could. It got to the point that I forgot they were twins cause I saw their differences as blaringly obvious.
Actually, mr. Blackthorne, if that gen does not make you gay, but make you to have some percentage of possibilities of becoming gay, twins would rarelly be both gays.
I don't remember my studies of the laws of probability, but less than 25%, I think...
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 28/01/2005 20:01:31
That is your whole arguement?
You knew some twins [and indentical is just a word to describe them, they aren't completely the same 100%] and one became gay.
I also knew some twins, one was gay and liked lacross, the other was straight and liked soccer... Man they must not have been very identical at all. I mean, they should like the exact same thing and talk the exact same way and like the exact same foods, since they're identical...
bah, you get my point, at least I hope so
Huh? I think you missed BT's point. He was saying that homosexuality isn't a genetic traight because it doesn't show up in identical twins. The "lying" part I read as sarcasm.
um
Quote[and indentical is just a word to describe them, they aren't completely the same 100%]
He's pointing out they're not genetically identical [despite common belief].
I don't think I did miss his point, Dragonrose
He's saying that homosexuality isn't a genetic traight because of these 2 people he knew in school. That's not a basis for anything.
He said it didn't show up in 2 people he knew, not all identical twins everywhere. And if he's gonna say that then he has to provide studies and articles and essays and proof.
If that's how one can make an arguement I can say that only white kids become bullies because in school I was only bullied by white kids. And they can only be boys, and can only have red hair.
Quote from: DragonRose on Fri 28/01/2005 23:27:12
Huh? I think you missed BT's point. He was saying that homosexuality isn't a genetic traight because it doesn't show up in identical twins.Ã, The "lying" part I read as sarcasm.
You did miss my point. I was being sarcastic.Ã, I don't think homosexality is a gentic trait, however.Ã,Â
I was using them as a personal example, but there is plenty of work done out there to support my view.Ã, There is plenty of work to support the opposition too.Ã,Â
Point being, I don't care - your life, your choice and if you're my friend or family, I'll support you and fight for your right to live a peaceful life. I don't think having some scientific excuse to shout and point at and go "SEE!SEE! It's not MY FAULT I'M GAY!" is wrong. There's nothing wrong with being gay, and you shouldn't have to justify yourself to anyone.
Bt
You've all missed the point, dammit! The point is...
(http://www.tvtome.com/images/shows/20/5/38-8509-sm.jpg)
Buster has met some lesbians!
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5C%5CCulture%5C%5Carchive%5C%5C200501%5C%5CCUL20050127b.html
Yeah, I know, I read about that thing on another forum. Oh, no. Not lesbian parents.....
Bt
So then if you don't care... Why post at all?
It seems like you're saying:
"I don't care but I do. I wasn't serious but I was."
So you don't think that homosexuality is a genetic thing but you don't see it as a problem for there to be a scientific reason for people to be homosexual?
"I don't think having some scientific excuse to shout and point at and go "SEE!SEE! It's not MY FAULT I'M GAY!" is wrong. There's nothing wrong with being gay, and you shouldn't have to justify yourself to anyone."
This is what confuses me.
Occasionally people can be serious and humorous. It happens when you don't take everything so damn seriously, because you know no matter what we all die the same. Sorta nihlistic, but it makes you appreciate the moment.
What I'm saying is don't sheepishly justify yourself. There's no need to. I don't think there's a genetic reason why people are gay or straight. It's just who you are. You could have behavioral therapists pull cognative and social studies to declare that it is a formed sense of social interaction - whatever.
I think the genetic thing is bullshit.
Bt
Postcards from Buster?! What will they think of next...
Personally I support the move to have that episode removed - or at least not aired on kid's prime time. If parents want their kids to learn about "alternative" lifestyles, it should be up to THEM to say what they are comfortable with - not some T.V show depicting a very one-sided view. I'm not saying it's a BAD view - but not every gay couple lives in a world called "Sugarland" with a bunch of cows they milk every day or so. I think it would be better to make it available as a video/dvd for parents/guardians who think it will be a useful device in educating their children.
The reason I didn't see any humour in what you wrote is because it came out of no where.
No one was talking about homosexuality being genetic or not and you just posted randomly as if you were countering some arguement you were having with someone invisible.
Or did you just think of the joke and wanted to post it?
Either way what you wrote confused me and what you continued to write further confused me. I'm not taking this overly seriously either. I'm just talking. If you see me as freaking out and ranting then that's your bag.
And even if you are joking around with your twins post, is it not valid for me to start talking with you about this? Can I not ask for you to elaborate?
And again, I don't see how someone saying "Sorry friends, this is how I was born." is being sheepish. But whatever. Who cares, moving on.
Peter: Why can't it be aired on television? Shouldn't a parent know what their kid is watching anyway and not just let any old show educate their child? If a parent doesn't want their child seeing it, don't let them watch it. If a parent doesn't want their children watching The Piano [which is on HBO at all times of the day] don't let them watch it.
Eric: I completely agree that parents SHOULD be aware of what their kids are watching, but the problem is they wouldn't even know what's going on until the gay scene has already been shown, by which time if they just jump up and turn the tv off and say "let's go outisde and buy ice-cream" they've got a very angry and very curious kid on their hands.
And often parents just don't know what the kids are watching. They assume that if it comes on after Sesame Street then it must be okay sort of thing. Not being aware of what your kid is watching is nothing to be PROUD of, but it's hardly a reason for kids to be left to watch homosexuality when their parents are strictly against it. I know it's not porn, but morals are morals.
I think it would be GREAT if it could be aired. But a lot of people aren't ready for it, and you can't just stick it on T.V for the sake of "open-mindedness" when there are gonna be loads of people against it.
I heard that on the morning radio show here. . .
. . .They were making up their own future episode ideas, where Buster goes to San Fran or a bathhouse. . .
Their Gay-Braham Lincoln sketch was to die for too.
~~Bernie L
Quote from: Blackthorne on Sat 29/01/2005 01:02:53
Occasionally people can be serious and humorous. It happens when you don't take everything so damn seriously, because you know no matter what we all die the same. Sorta nihlistic, but it makes you appreciate the moment.
Claiming to be serious and humorous at the same time is a way of believing that the self does not exist and exploring rational thought while supporting political destruction?? Whoa, that nihilism stuff is pretty awesome!
Quote from: theyak on Fri 28/01/2005 08:42:53
Edit by Andail: I'm a moderator, I reply and comment where it pleases me, thank you very much
<For the sake of moderators everywhere, Yakspit removes his tongue from his cheek.>
Anyway, the twin argument still doesn't manage to dispute the research statement from earlier (specifically, the gene found in 10% of the population that causes homosexuality 50% of the time). In fact, it provides as much evidence as it does refuting it.
I agree with Peter Thomas. While my stepkids wouldn't have been confused or taken aback by this particular cartoon episode (as they've been educated on such matters) and I'd have no problem with them seeing it, kids cartoons shouldn't cover every available scenario but rather the more common ones. Speaking from my own perspective, I've yet to see a set of lesbian parents raising children and I've met a lot of parents (in the San Francisco area no less). It would be far more realistic if our favorite little bunny met his friends parents and the dad turned out to be a physically abusive alcoholic (now that's good children's TV!).
Yes, parents that don't approve shouldn't let their children see it and they should monitor what they're children watch. However, this shouldn't be down to the micromanagement level with each episode pre-screened. A parent shouldn't necessarily assume a TV show aimed at kids is automatically acceptable either. They should be able to tell from seeing a couple episodes whether a series as a whole is okay for their children. In the case of this show, the authors have deviated a bit from their standard programming. If a parent needs to be so involved in what their kids watched that they prescreen every episode of every program, then perhaps that parent shouldn't be letting their children watch TV at all.
The radio people (an alternative rock station) were hilarious about it, all disappointed over it.
They were asking, "Well, families aren't all mom, dad and a picket fence. . .when are they visiting the crack-wh*re mom?"
~~Bernie L
QuoteI've yet to see a set of lesbian parents raising children and I've met a lot of parents (in the San Francisco area no less). It would be far more realistic if our favorite little bunny met his friends parents and the dad turned out to be a physically abusive alcoholic (now that's good children's TV!).
I should actually mention (according the news reports I've read) the daughter and the lesbian parents are voiced by real people. These are not fake lesbians. They're a real couple with a sugar farm who are guest-voicing for an episode.
Also, I think comparing lesbians to abusive alcoholics is a bit of an apples-oranges comparison. But if you want to have realism, just put in the same old whitebread vanilla folk you see on nearly every show.
And if that's the case, you might as well just watch Arthur instead of Buster. Nobody is more whitebread than Arthur.
(http://www.pbs.org/parents/images/tvprograms/info-arthur.gif)
Look at him!
P.S. My favourite episode of Arthur is the one that guest stars the Backstreet Boys. THEY'RE SO DREAMY!!
I can't believe the Backstreet Boys episode had a special "By Popular Demand" double screening.
Don't ask how I know.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sat 29/01/2005 02:10:09
Quote from: Blackthorne on Sat 29/01/2005 01:02:53
Occasionally people can be serious and humorous.Ã, It happens when you don't take everything so damn seriously, because you know no matter what we all die the same.Ã, Sorta nihlistic, but it makes you appreciate the moment.
Claiming to be serious and humorous at the same time is a way of believing that the self does not exist and exploring rational thought while supporting political destruction?? Whoa, that nihilism stuff is pretty awesome!
Thank you, my synapes are now fried!
Bt
I personally thought the problem with "Buster" was stupid because if they're only going to show "normal, ideal" families, they're not exactly postcards.
Maybe it should be "Views of An Ideal Republican Society With Buster"
But even then, there are liberal republicans. . .poor them :(
~~Bernie L
Yak: What about kids who have parents that are white and black or black and asian? Can Buster visit them?
Not really an issue is it? But a few years ago it was the hot button issue. People died over that. Just as those crazy gays [I like to call them the "gayzies"!] are the hot button issue now. You said childrens shows should cover common issues, well that's common now, and what makes gay marriage [not even marriage, but the idea that sometimes a dude loves a dude and a bird loves a bird...] common is people not freaking out over it.
I guess what I want is just for people to look back, remember what happened with jungle fever and realize that, except for 10 absolutely insane people in Oklahoma, no one cares if you have a black dad. So why not just not care if you have 2 dads?
I mean no one complained about Nicole Bradford's 2 dads and that was 8 years ago!
I wonder what the hot button issue will be when the gay issue passes. . .
What will be the no-no-no family type then?
~~Bernie L
I often wonder what the next "hot topic" will be, and it scares me to think it may well eventually become something like adult-child relationships (referring to children under 13 or 14 or whatever). It's already in the papers enough as it is...
Of course, when that time comes I'll just be considered "narrow-minded" and "over-conservative"
I highly, highly, highly doubt it.
The only reason people talk about bestiality and peadphelia is to compare it to homosexuals getting married. Liberals and conservatives won't battle it out over people being able to marry 10 year olds...
It'll probably be something like humans and aliens dating. Dads will see a UFO in the back yard and be like "No green tentacley creature from another planet will put his suction cups on my daughter!" and run out with a baseball bat, and Mom will cry and the daughter will scream "YOU DON'T KNOW HIM! YOU DON'T KNOW ME!" and sneak out of the house at night to make out with the alien
So please, can we get over that already and realize that it's just like interracial dating?
Uh, dude... That was detailed.... This "Alien" wouldnt happen to be you would it?
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sat 29/01/2005 03:07:32
Also, I think comparing lesbians to abusive alcoholics is a bit of an apples-oranges comparison. But if you want to have realism, just put in the same old whitebread vanilla folk you see on nearly every show.
You can't contradict me. You quoted me. You worship me! Noooo.... <stomps away>
It's amazing how anybody that tries to keep a balanced opinion and see both sides gets bitch-slapped by both extremes. I wasn't making a comparison at all. To be more specific; having raised 4 girls for 7 years, I met quite a lot of parents and their children. Of those sets of parents, I never met a gay couple. I did, however, meet many bi-racial couples, drug-dealing couples, abusive parents, Wiccan parents, ultra-conservative uber-Christian parents, strict parents and the 'cool' parents who'll let their kids experiment with everything regardless of age or maturity level.
Once I state that I agree somewhat with a certain viewpoint, any words of explanation or justification are ignored. Mr. C: I already stated that I have no problem with that episode and wouldn't have had any problem with my kids seeing it. Why pull out the race card and toss accusations of bigotry out at every turn? I was merely saying that I could see how some parents might find that offensive and I didn't feel it was a realistic expectation of the show to assume that every child is going to come across a homosexual couple in their formative years. I do, however, think that most children will come across a bi-racial couple among their friends' parents. I haven't had any reaction upon meeting a bi-racial couple but it's the proliferation of controversy surrounding it that makes us even consider such issues.
I do think you make a good point, Eric, when you say that controversy and lack of general acceptance are what makes these things 'issues' to begin with. Ah, what I wouldn't give for a world wherein offensiveness and political correctness weren't words we needed to consider daily.
race card? bigotry?
Sorry man, you're reading into what I wrote, all I'm saying is what I wrote in my last post.
It's an issue that people don't think about in terms of history. They don't think back to other arguements and fights and legislation over white and black people getting married when they think about gay people. They seem to be perfectly happy just going through the same motions over and over and over again.
Quote from: YakSpit on Sat 29/01/2005 09:57:20
I met quite a lot of parents and their children.Ã, Of those sets of parents, I never met a gay couple.
Liar, you don't live in the bay area at all!
I saw it on TV!
Well, I live near A bay. And by near, I mean that the average distance is more near than Colorado. And as for that TV program - I was young, I needed cash.
Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 29/01/2005 06:51:31
I mean no one complained about Nicole Bradford's 2 dads and that was 8 years ago!
This made me laugh more than anything in the last month. ROFFLE ROFFLE!!
Quote from: YakSpit on Sat 29/01/2005 09:57:20
It's amazing how anybody that tries to keep a balanced opinion and see both sides gets bitch-slapped by both extremes. I wasn't making a comparison at all. To be more specific; having raised 4 girls for 7 years, I met quite a lot of parents and their children. Of those sets of parents, I never met a gay couple. I did, however, meet many bi-racial couples, drug-dealing couples, abusive parents, Wiccan parents, ultra-conservative uber-Christian parents, strict parents and the 'cool' parents who'll let their kids experiment with everything regardless of age or maturity level.
I just assumed since you mentioned both in sentences that run one after the other and linking them with the phrase "It would be far more realistic if" that you were making a comparison between the realism of gay couples and alcoholics on television. And I just followed that on with a comment that comparing gay couples with alcoholics isn't really much of a comparison anyway, and that you might as well just forego all "issues" on TV (such as gays, alcoholics, race, religion) and have shows where six zany-but-normal white people hang out at a zany-but-normal coffee shop every day and do zany-but-normal white people things like dance around zany-but-normal fountains.
But I was wrong to assume that comparison in the first place, wasn't I? ;)
Gay people belong on T.V like pin-pricks belong in condoms. We should all just shrivel up and never try to make ourselves known again.
[/dances round a fountain like a zany-but-normal white person]
No, gay people on TV are fine...
Well, only 5 of them really...
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sun 30/01/2005 03:46:09
I just assumed since you mentioned both in sentences that run one after the other and linking them with the phrase "It would be far more realistic if" that you were making a comparison . . . gays, alcoholics, race, religion) and have shows where six zany-but-normal white people hang out at a zany-but-normal coffee shop every day and do zany-but-normal white people things like dance around zany-but-normal fountains.
Very well, it was a comparison if you'd like to simplify it. It was a greater than/ less than comparison but not a statement of equivalence. The assumptions made are so asinine that I'm not even sure how to reply. I, personally, have zero problem with the episode in question.
I was stating that it seemed strange to introduce children to a situation that isn't all that common rather than choosing to introduce them to one that is. I've had the kids come home and say things like, "My friend's dad drinks too much and I don't want to spend the night there anymore,", "My friends parents burned her hand on a hot stove for coming home late, I'm glad my parents aren't like that," , "My friend's mom has a drug problem," etc., but I've yet to hear anything about a parental couple my kids came across that were of the same gender. Perhaps it's more common in other parts of this wonderful, wonderful world of ours but I haven't encountered it personally yet.
Why this particular issue? Have they already covered divorced familes, bi-racial marriages, substance abuse or the other issues that just about every kid in the US (if not world-wide) will come across on a regular basis. Making the assumption that I want white-bread edutainment that's devoid of any sort of diversity or critical thinking is way beyond the bounds of what I was expressing. I just was explaining the I could understand why they yanked the program and knowing there are many people that would find it offensive. I, for one, would not. I just think it's "more realistic if" a kids' show covers issues that might actually affect the average child. If you're going to use up your might-offend-some-folks-currency on such non-issues as homosexual couples (really, what the fuck does it matter to a kid what gender their friends parents are), it seems a waste when you could explore an issue that might actually save that TV-zombified kids life or one of their friends? Alright, admittedly half the reason I'm pissy is that I'm running quite a fever but people's assumptions about my views have become the equivalent of schoolyard drama.
by people's assumptions I hope you aren't adding me in there, if so, read my last post again [not the horrible joke about Queer Eye...]
I haven't read what the segment is about but isn't the show about showing people and families and happy people and not showing a kid how to handle a situation that they may encounter in life?
and have they covered divorced familes and multi-ethnic families? I dunno, I just learned about this show with this stupid controversy.
I think your final statements are down to differences between what you'd do with a half hour block of kids television and what they're doing with it. Showing happy people working and having a family, in my opinion, is just as good as showing kids in trouble and how to deal with it. Letting a kid know that there are happy families out there and this is what they look like is not the same as mindless action cartoon # 4, which is what I'd equate more with zombifying a child.
CHILLAX YAKSPIT. IT'S ONLY THE INTERWEB.
I know you weren't equating one to the other. I just though stating one is a greater topic than the other is kind of a non-issue anyway. There are many issues that affect kids differently, whether it's an issue that (IMO) should be acceptable in society (such as homosexuality) to that which is universally understood as harmful to society (alcoholism). Hell, I learnt about evil sexual preditors from that episode of Diff'rent Strokes where the bikeshop owner "touches" Dudley, but I'm not going to say that issue is more important than a lesbian encounter by Arthur's best buddy. They're both two different issues in a sea of a million. And I think any show that at least tries to educate a little is more beneficial than most of the shit you see on TV anyway (And I wasn't meaning that you'd prefer the whitebread seen-it-all-before TV, insead I meant what I said as a general comment that most of the whitebread vanilla TV is pretty bland and without any real cultural benefit and that shows, whether they be Buster Meets Lesbians or a documentary on drunken Dads, at least add flavour).
Quote from: BernieLaraemie on Sat 29/01/2005 07:28:49
I wonder what the hot button issue will be when the gay issue passes. . .
What will be the no-no-no family type then?
~~Bernie L
My guess would be open relationships, group marriages, etc. Either that or the aliens...
Or what about human/animal relationships? Why can't two mutually consenting adults (of whatever species) enjoy a loving and beneficial relalationship with each other? It may seem strange to me, but who am I to judge?
:=
I'm sure one day scientists will create a animal/human hybrid, and on that same day a million furries will be calling their wedding planners.
The way you phrased that, Daniel, actually gave me shivers!
I hope you're satisfied...
Modge got me thinking - and I suppose the concept of group marriages DOES sound a plausible - albeit strange - one (however far off it may be). Fortunately I can't see animal celebrants in the near future...
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 30/01/2005 07:42:58
The way you phrased that, Daniel, actually gave me shivers!
I actually gave myself the shivers when I wrote that.
And not good shivers, either.
Also, on the same day, SomethingAwful will close down.
I was, in fact, thinking about Buster's (or is is Baxter?) adventures all wrong. The divorced or abuse parents scenarios probably wouldn't fit into the happy family setting that they were probably trying to show. I suppose it would be a lot more beneficial to show a happy and functional family with two moms than to address it as a "here's what you should do if..." kind of thing. For all I know, there might very well be a bi-racial family that he comes across, I stopped short of doing the research. <Yak pulls the lobsters out of his pants and attempts to relax a bit>
QuoteAlso, on the same day, SomethingAwful will close down.
There's a human/animal hybrid coming next thursday?
Wait, are you serious about SomethingAwful closing next Thursday? Or are you joking?
I'm not sure if you are or aren't.
AMBIGUITY!!!
BUAHAHAHA!
If somethingawful ever closed down I think I'd have to commit suicide - or some equally amazingly cool stunt.
I know this parody is a bit late on in the discussion, by but brian works very slowly:
AGS has NOTHING to do with making games. That's like saying kissing was invented so we can share cold sores
That's TWICE I've been quoted. That's gotta get me in the history books or SOMETHING....
you'll end up in the books for bumping your own thread every other post
:P
Thus spake Zandailstra. It is spoken.
Uh guys, where is this somethingawful? I'm thinking it's a website. . .
And sweet Michael Crawford avatar, Rui
www.somethingawful.com
That's like saying "who's tubgirl"?? :D
Oh, and if you don't know - SERIOUSLY don't ask...
...who IS she?
No no no no no no no no. Tubgirl baaaaaaaaaaad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shock_sites
A discription- not a picture, thank god!- of Tub girl is on that page. As well as a lot of other discriptions of nasty sites you will never ever want to go to.
So... what was the topic of this thread again?
...
...
...
...
...er, the topic was something we didn't see coming, which is exactly what I got when I checked out tubgirl...
...
...
...
<slap>
Ah yes. Topic! Yes of course! Stay on topic! Er... well, I don't actually have anything MORE to say than I've already said some posts ago, so I'll just say, thanks Bernie! I recently fell in love with the musical, which is quite obvious from the new avatar and name. And damn, can that guy sing.
Erm . . .I think I"m just going to stay away from those site. It sounds good to me.
If you like the musical, I'd recommend the new movie, but it's really only good to fans of the musical or of that kind of music or period pieces. Otherwise, it is teh suck.
~~Bernie L
Well, I saw the film, and I gotta tell you... though I LOVED it, my love grew much weaker when I listened to the original Sara Brightman/Steve Barton/Michael Crawford album. The film IS very good; simply not as good as the excellent original.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Thu 26/02/2004 09:18:32
That's not cool.
Although I'm undecided about whether or not Oral Sex is good or not! I mean, undeniably the FEELING is great but.....
This next part contains descriptions that may make you want to vomit... you WERE warned.
I know a couple of guys who went out with girls, Gave them head, SWALLOWED!! and then wanted to KISS them straight afterwards. That grossed the guys out completely. So MY verdict is:
If a girl gives you head, it's fine, as long as she doesn't want to kiss afterwards. Then, when she gets cancer, just laugh and say THAT'S YOUR FAULT FOR WANTING TO BE ALL GROSS AND STUFF!!
problem solved. unless you're gay.....
in which case you should be posting in another thread ;)
We all saw this cumming, see, you've been planning this thread for almost a year according to this above quoted post.
Welcome back
I never said anything LIKE that!
[/runs and edits ALL posts pertaining to gay people not contained within this thread]
I could tell you a little more about that story, but I just don't think you people are ready to handle it...
Off topic - well, sort of - what was I even getting at there? Was I saying semen gives you mouth cancer or something equally disturbing? I'd go and find it... but, you know... not in my nature and stuff...
Semen cures cancer, and I totally saw this coming you faux homophobe. I hope you get married and are forced to enjoy every excrutiatingly painful anal penetration related to it.
Faux homophobe? I guess that made sense to someone. That I fake being afraid of gay people or something. Something... I forget where this was going exactly. But it was something partially derogatory towards you, possibly involving a mullet, I really can't remember. But take offense anyway...
THAT was certainly enlightening.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 06/02/2005 05:52:15
Faux homophobe? I guess that made sense to someone. That I fake being afraid of gay people or something. Something... I forget where this was going exactly. But it was something partially derogatory towards you, possibly involving a mullet, I really can't remember. But take offense anyway...
bwahaha.. no offense intended. "Faux homophobe" being related to your formerly rigid stance against homosexual marriage, etc.
I never had a mullet.. I just said I did. I think. Some people said it was getting long in the back, but really it was long all around, and.. yeah.
"Homosexuality as prelude to acceptance of other sexual deviations. This claim is so vague and unfounded as to be in the category with: 'When did you stop beating your wife?' As far as I know, no official organization has seen fit to officially refute the claim, because it is absolutely baseless and ludicrous. It arises from the old belief that homosexual orientation was a perversion, which enlightened psychiatrists and psychoanalysts no longer believe. Nor did Sigmund Freud. He went to great lengths to differentiate 'inversion' (homosexual orientation) from 'perversion.' In contemporary terms, we differentiate homosexual orientation as encompassing healthy, warm, and enduring relationships with partners, just as in heterosexual individuals. A perversion is a specific type of behavior that tends to dehumanize its partners and to be focused only on a substitute for a mutual relationship." - Ralph E. Roughton, M.D.
Clinical Professor of Psychiatry
Emory University Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences
Atlanta, Georgia
And congratulations for coming out. ;)
have you 'come out of the closet' anywhere else exept from in the forum?
don't get me wrong, i think it's great that you start somewhere,
but your closest should know too
My family don't really know. Well, okay, that's not true. They know in their heart of hearts (my dad's already bought a few books all about how to deal with your "sinful gay son"), and I've dropped them plenty of hints, but I haven't sat them down and told them straight to their face "I'm gay". That's largely because I'm going through a pretty rough time right now (my b/f broke up with me a week before christmas because he has HIV) and that's something I'm not really prepared to talk about right now. Thinking I'm gay is "bad" enough for them - they'd die if I told them I had to go for an aids test soon...
Mostly everyone else knows. Even my ex-girlfriend (who I only went out with to try and prove that I wasn't gay - we're best friends now). I think I'm going to get HER to come with me when I go for the tests - no way I could do it on my own.
There are a few friends who I haven't told. I would regard them as fairly close, but they are relatively homophobic. I appreciate the addage 'if they're friends they'll accept you for who you are' but that's a lot easier said than done. Oh, and the managers at work don't know, for the very same reason. My last shift one of them spent the ENTIRE night cracking anti-gay jokes, and telling me how sick and un-natural it was. I had to grin and bear it. I would've said something if I could afford to not have a job, but I can't. Everyone else in the complex knows, though, so I go and talk to them instead :)
Whew, okay, that was more a ramble than I expected. The sort of thing I'd put in a journal. Oh well, I hope it at least answered your question. Not out to EVERYONE, but MOST of them.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Wed 09/02/2005 12:04:26
There are a few friends who I haven't told. I would regard them as fairly close, but they are relatively homophobic. I appreciate the addage 'if they're friends they'll accept you for who you are' but that's a lot easier said than done. Oh, and the managers at work don't know, for the very same reason. My last shift one of them spent the ENTIRE night cracking anti-gay jokes, and telling me how sick and un-natural it was. I had to grin and bear it. I would've said something if I could afford to not have a job, but I can't. Everyone else in the complex knows, though, so I go and talk to them instead :)
You should talk to your Human Resources department about it. In the UK at least, it's illegal for you to be discriminated against becuase of your sexuality. I think there's an Australian Equal Opportunites Commision, isn't there?
If the guy doesn't know Peter's gay then how can it be considered that he's discriminating against him by cracking anti-gay jokes?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that anti-gay jokes are ok, but if this guy wasn't aware of Peter's sexuality then he won't have been making them as a direct dig at him, so it doesn't count as discrimination, no matter how little he enjoyed it.
I think SSH was refering to Peter s fear to announce he's gay, at the work, not to the jokes.
Good luck about that tests... And if you bring bad news, well, I am no an expert, but there's people living healthy with HIV, for more than 20 years. It's not a death penalty within the first 4 or 5 years like before. Anyway, let's pray for a "negative" result.
Farlander! Bloody hell! I know you were trying to give words of comfort and understanding, but...
Quotethere's people living healthy with HIV, for more than 20 years
So I guess I'm due to die around 39, then. Comforting indeed.
:D Don't worry, no offence taken. Just sort of gave me a jolt, that's all.
And yes, definitely praying for a negative result.
Best of luck, Peter. I truly, truly hope it's negative, and I'm sure it will be ^_^
...and *ahem* I'm -sure- there are people that make it further than 20 years. "Bad Farlander" *whap!* :P
Quote from: Kinoko on Thu 10/02/2005 01:04:13
I'm -sure- there are people that make it further than 20 years.
There damn well
better be :)
Eh, it's not just conditions like AIDS that give you sentences like that...
When my kidney's failed, and I was told I would require dialysis and a transplant, I was also told that even with the treatments, my life expectancy could only be maybe 20 years.. maybe more, maybe less.
Living with an early death sentance is a hard thing, but life goes on.
Uh, anyway, PT - I hope you get a negative response too. Remember your sexual safety in the future as well.
Bt
Oh, I never forgot my safety, but there are countless ways to catch hiv. They say you can't catch it from kissing, but if both people have mouth ulcers, then anything's possible. Not to mention the more probable methods of contraction. Better safe than sorry, even if turns out to be very sorry indeed. Apparently around 70-80% of people with hiv+ partners wil catch it themselves. Mostly that's because they were just plain careless, but that's still a stupidly high percentage. No idea what the ratio's like elsewhere, but it's got me scared crapless, I'll say that much.
Oh, and by the way, I never noticed your sig before Bt, and I don't know why I noticed it now, but I like that quote. "Enjoy every sandwich". Don't know what it means to you, but suddenly it means an awful lot to me.
[/becomes 70 years old and starts reflecting on the golden days when everything had so much meaning]
hey faggy bastard, ( ;D ;)) I've said: "healthy for more than 20 years" and they're still alive, so, who knows, maybe with the new drugs the hope of survival will increase to 30, or 35... We don't still know it because people being treated is still healthy. And during this time, I'm quite sure that in that time something else will be developed to make HIV something like a diabetes, serious, yes, but not fatal.
Still... Let's go for the "negative"! :D
Quote from: Captain Mostly on Wed 09/02/2005 18:32:42
If the guy doesn't know Peter's gay then how can it be considered that he's discriminating against him by cracking anti-gay jokes?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that anti-gay jokes are ok, but if this guy wasn't aware of Peter's sexuality then he won't have been making them as a direct dig at him, so it doesn't count as discrimination, no matter how little he enjoyed it.
That's not the case. A manager who goes around saying that he thinks that people who have kids are less productive and more likely to take time off and so on is still discriminating whether he knows if any of any of his staff have kids or not. Just becuase having children is (slightly?) more likely than being gay doesn't change whether its discrimination or not. Of course, if no-one is affected then people are not so liekyl to report the discrimination, but then that's a different question.
Hehe, I might lodge a complaint just to get under their skin! I'm looking to get a job somewhere else anyway, so when I do, I think I'm gonna say bye with a bang ;)
Actually... don't ask what made me think of it, but there's a small deli section in the shop where I occasionally have to slice meats and stuff. If I ever cut myself (I think it's only happened once before?) of course I wouldn't give them any meat that came in contact with it, but if I've got hiv, then I wouldn't really be allowed to touch the meat at all. Would I? It probably wouldn't be terribly wise in any case.
This is what I think about coming out to your parents - your view might differ, but you might want to know that you can think this way too: I think that my personal life is NOT my parent's business. It's none of teir business with whom I go out with, live with and have sex with. You can think that way, too, especially if your parents are very homophobic. However, if they are "gay is OK, go for it!" type, the love and support they can give you regarding your relationships, for example, can be good. There's no NEED to come out, and if you feel guilty for not having come out... don't. It's none of their business.
But, most parents learn to accept their child's sexual orientation in time. :)
Thanks dead :)
My parents ARE homophobic. Actually, I'd take that further and say they're just downright anti-gay. However I know they love me and will learn to accept who I am with time. The problem simply lies with the fact that I'd have to tell them everything at once. It's not as easy as just saying I'm gay. I'd have to tell them that within the first year of my openly gay life, I may have already contracted hiv, which wouldn't do much to help their perception of the gay community, and would probably send them into panic over-drive.
I know that they legally don't have much/any control over my social/private/sex life and that I don't have to inform them of everything. And I certainly DON'T tell them everything. But, well, this just isn't something that I'd consider being "one of those things". As I said before (I think it was in this forum...) I'm just gonna take it one day at a time...
That's the worst, I'm living with my parents right now (unfortunately) for another month. They're homophobic. . .religious, as well.
I've told my mother. . .but my father isn't finding out till I leave. It's that simple.
Good luck to you Peter, and I hope you find somewhere that you're comfortable.
Good for you as well, you seem very together on this subject/issue, so I know you'll do well.
~~Bernie L
Thanks Bernie :)
I phoned around today, trying to find a doctor/clinic that will do it relatively cheap/free. Didn't have the nerve to actually make the appointment, but I've narrowed it down to two places that I'm likely to go. I nearly went to my family doctor about it, but decided against it. He's christian too, and has always liked us for our christian principles. I really trust him and feel like I can talk to him about most things, but I'd hate to see his face if I mentioned I needed an hiv test. Good golly he'd die.
And I also phoned around to see if I could complain about my discriminatory managers. Didn't find anyone who was willing to listen to my case, but I'll be damned before I give up. Well, I suppose according to the bible I already AM damned, so I guess I'm free to give up anytime soon...
I lost a job based on sexuality. . .in a foreign country, too. That was fun.
Hrm. . .I think a Christian doctor (who really shouldn't bring his beliefs to work) wouldn't necessarily think you were gay. . . .
Besides, they usually don't test for *just* HIV. Make that appointment with a clinic, and keep us posted.
We're pulling for ya' here, man. . .so you go and confirm you're negative, honey.
~~Bernie Laraemie
I think that it is important to let your parents know you're gay. I used to think that my sexuality was "none of their business" but that was just making excuses because I knew REALLY that telling them was the only respectful thing to do. Also, I feel it's important that people make the most of their parents who, if we like them or not, won't be around forever. I've never met anyone yet who has lost a parent and HONESTLY didn't care, and that INCLUDES teenagers who've lost their mothers during their "I hate my mum" period of their lives.
Even if they have a hard time coming to terms with it, your parents love you and deserve to have a role in your life and be told. One thing is for certain, they CAN'T be supportive if they don't know there's anything to support you over, even if "supportivness" isn't the first town they visit on the emotional highway out of "Shocked, angry and confused" city.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 11/02/2005 13:47:23
Well, I suppose according to the bible I already AM damned, so I guess I'm free to give up anytime soon...
Don't say that.
There's a quote I remember from the film Sling Blade. The film's protagonist, Karl, says: "The Bible says two men ought not lay together. But I don't reckon the Good Lord would send anybody like you to Hades."
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 11/02/2005 13:47:23Well, I suppose according to the bible I already AM damned, so I guess I'm free to give up anytime soon...
The bible issue in't that simple. The New Testament says NOTHING about gays, and that's the book Christians should believe in. Also, if you take the bible literally, eating shrimp is an abomination. It's in the same list as homosexuality. Eating shrimp is no longer considered an abomination, but homosexuality still is - see the hypocrisy? Besides, the writers of the Bible considered slavery, genocide, mass murder, and the oppression of women acceptable.
This page has more info: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm A quote:
QuoteThe New International Version (NIV) currently translates Leviticus 18:22 as:
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
The New Living Translation (NLT) widens the translation to also include lesbians:
"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
Imagine what would happen if the translators decided to be accurate to the original Hebrew and render this verse as:
"Two men must not engage in sexual activity on a woman's bed; it is ritually unclean."
Your absolutely right deadworm! Eating shrimp is disgusting. And it doesn't taste good. And it is an abomination!
God Hates Shrimp (http://www.godhatesshrimp.com)
;D
Quote
Imagine what would happen if the translators decided to be accurate to the original Hebrew and render this verse as:
Ã, Ã, "Two men must not engage in sexual activity on a woman's bed; it is ritually unclean."
Quote
Heh. I spit my coke out my nostrils on that one. Guess I'd better tell my gay friends to quit havin' sex on their sisters beds and such.
Bt
Heh. There's a SLIGHT difference between shrimp and homosexuality according to the bible. The New Testament rendered eating shrimp CLEAN. It said nothing about us gay people, and therefore we are STILL to rely on the word of the old testament (which is pretty clear). Yes, we are to believe the N.T, but that doesn't mean we are to ignore the OLD testament.
Although I really do appreciate your support. It's kind of a mind-battle for me. I spent so long trying to 'talk myself out' of being gay that I learnt basically every argument against gays on the way, and as much as I hate it, I can refute nearly everything people say in support. Yeah, sure it goes against the whole point of it, since it's being said in SUPPORT of me and I'm shooting it down... but... um... I think there was some sort of point to this. I hope you can see where I was going, cause I sort of confused myself.
ANYWAY. Mostly, you're right - I would hate for my parents to die and not know the 'real' me. But they already know I'm gay. Not because I've dropped them a million hints, and not because I wear pink shirts with flared jeans and have vanilla-scented cologne, and not because the people I go clubbing with are in tight mid-riffs and singing Cher. They know because they're mum and dad and they have this stupid thing called intuition. They know, but they don't want to accept it, and they won't let me tell them. And as much as they will love me regardless of it, there is such a thing as good and bad timing.
And this, I am afriad, is BAD timing...
Oh, and I agree COMPLETELY that you shouldn't be having sex on your sisters bed. Or your aunts, or whoever. Just borrow the pillows or something...
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 13/02/2005 04:43:12
Heh. There's a SLIGHT difference between shrimp and homosexuality according to the bible. The New Testament rendered eating shrimp CLEAN. It said nothing about us gay people, and therefore we are STILL to rely on the word of the old testament (which is pretty clear). Yes, we are to believe the N.T, but that doesn't mean we are to ignore the OLD testament.
WARNING: VERY OPINIONATED POST BELOW
Well if you think about it, the laws (in Leviticus, for example) were given to the Israelites after they made up their mind they wanted a king. I think originally it was intended that God would be their "king." So a lot of those laws are directed towards the Israelites back then -- not to say there isn't a lot of wisdom found in those laws, but I don't believe I will go to hell because I'm uncircumcised. Again, I still thing those laws should not be overlooked.
In the New Testament, though, I notice the Apostle Paul has some things to say about homosexuality. A lot of people argue about interpretations and things like that, but if you read what he has to say, you'll see that it's very clear, and I can't see how there would be any confusion.
So I'm not trying to "convince" anyone or change anyone's opinions when I write this; I'm just interested in hearing your thoughts.
Question, Peter Thomas, so have you prayed to God about any of this?
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Sun 13/02/2005 06:58:30
In the New Testament, though, I notice the Apostle Paul has some things to say about homosexuality. A lot of people argue about interpretations and things like that, but if you read what he has to say, you'll see that it's very clear, and I can't see how there would be any confusion.
READ: TRANSLATIONS.
EXAMPLE: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.
Thank you.
Bt
Geoff: Yes, as ironic as it sounds, I've prayed very fervently about it. For about the last 3 or so years actually, every single day, probably twice or more a day. I prayed that God would take away this 'sin' from me, and well, quite frankly, after that long, I grew kind of sick of it.
If I could endure something so heinous to christianity for 3 years without succumbing to it, and God STILL does not get rid of it, then something's wrong. Okay, okay, I'm not trying to bag out Christianity here, or any religion or anything. I'm just kind of bitter for those 3 years that were, ultimately, in vain.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 13/02/2005 09:15:41
Geoff: Yes, as ironic as it sounds, I've prayed very fervently about it. For about the last 3 or so years actually, every single day, probably twice or more a day. I prayed that God would take away this 'sin' from me, and well, quite frankly, after that long, I grew kind of sick of it.
If I could endure something so heinous to christianity for 3 years without succumbing to it, and God STILL does not get rid of it, then something's wrong. Okay, okay, I'm not trying to bag out Christianity here, or any religion or anything. I'm just kind of bitter for those 3 years that were, ultimately, in vain.
I used to do that, too, but only when I was much, MUCH younger - around... ten. Eventually I realised that I had the wrong idea of God and religion altogether... And then I read philosophy, and decided to become an atheist. I felt that I was finally free to think for myself.
However:
"The Christian Scriptures, in their original Greek do not contain any clear references to consensual homosexuality within a committed relationship, and certainly do not contain any unambiguous condemnation of gay and lesbian sexual activity. However, after having been filtered through the belief systems of the translators, many English versions of the Bible clearly condemn homosexual behavior. Now that the famous "anti-homosexual" passages of 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Romans 1:18 have been so long identified as being critical of homosexual activity, it would be impossible for Bible translators to offer alternative explanations; their Bible wouldn't sell." - see here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc6.htm)
But that's just the liberal view. Of course, you might find the words of my good friend Kingzjester comforting: "I don't get what the big deal is with homosexuality. It is just like heterosexuality, only with more gay sex. Then again, if you choose to believe it, Lev. 20:13 did say, 'If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.' So, ok. Abomination and death for fags. It is still not that bad. Snowmen have lived with abomination for ages already, and as far as death goes, mortality has been running at 100% for an eternity, so it is not such a shitty hand of cards when you look at it, thou abominable Finnish queer."
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 13/02/2005 04:43:12Although I really do appreciate your support. It's kind of a mind-battle for me. I spent so long trying to 'talk myself out' of being gay that I learnt basically every argument against gays on the way, and as much as I hate it, I can refute nearly everything people say in support.
Eventually, I think, you just have to choose what you think is best for you. That's what everybody does, ultimately. Every right-wing Christian does that, too. That's the pain of existentialist angst - we don't have clear answers, only more and more questions. We just have to decide for ourselves. Now that I think about it, I quite love that freedom.
QuoteAnd as much as they will love me regardless of it, there is such a thing as good and bad timing.
For me, there is no good time for that - I'm just too freaked out. I usually tend to exploit a side route in a conversation and just ride the adrenaline rush... :D
Fun fact of the day: No gay person I know is feminine. Not surprising, since I'm in a university of technology...
Oh, I forgot. One of them is a lesbian, and she IS feminine.
I think the New Testament does render homosexuality acceptable. Here you have Jesus and twelve other guys...
... hanging out together...
... in gardens ...
... alone ...
...
...
!
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 13/02/2005 09:15:41
Geoff: Yes, as ironic as it sounds, I've prayed very fervently about it. For about the last 3 or so years actually, every single day, probably twice or more a day. I prayed that God would take away this 'sin' from me, and well, quite frankly, after that long, I grew kind of sick of it.
Leaving aside whether homosexuality, or homosexual practice or whatever is a sin (and you've heard my calls for tolerance on this before) I've never heard of any kind of Christianity where you sinning is God's fault for not taking the sin away from you. When I was a teenager I used to pray that God would stop me from wanking. Eventually, I realised that if wanking IS a sin, then it's my reponsibility to stop doing it. Personally, I think the biggest "sin" of pornography is the way it exploits men and women and the attitudes it engenders in those using it of the people withitn as sex objects. The biggest sin about homosexuality is the attitude it engenders in those who get very angry about the whole issue and start spitting hate, from both sides (although mainly the Christian). The fault is not that of the "homosexuality" or the "pornography" but of selfish, insecure people.
Incidentally, I notice how when politicians talk about censorship of movies they always bundle sex and violence in together. Personally, I've never wanted to commit violence after seeing a violent moive, on the other hand, after seeing a sexy movie... ;)
I think the great sage Bill Hicks once said that it was ironic that that the people who against pornography and things that cause sexual thought are fundamentalist Christians who believe you should be fruitful and multiply.
Quote from: Blackthorne on Sun 13/02/2005 08:39:01
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Sun 13/02/2005 06:58:30
In the New Testament, though, I notice the Apostle Paul has some things to say about homosexuality. A lot of people argue about interpretations and things like that, but if you read what he has to say, you'll see that it's very clear, and I can't see how there would be any confusion.
READ: TRANSLATIONS.
EXAMPLE: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.
Thank you.
Bt
Ah, well then what you do is read as many various translations of the Bible as possible and then look at the common meaning.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sun 13/02/2005 09:15:41
Geoff: Yes, as ironic as it sounds, I've prayed very fervently about it. For about the last 3 or so years actually, every single day, probably twice or more a day. I prayed that God would take away this 'sin' from me, and well, quite frankly, after that long, I grew kind of sick of it.
I really don't know what to say. So I won't say anything. Well, I think I should get out of this discussion, thank you for answering my questions.
SSH: Yeah, that probably sounded a bit like I was blaming God. Which I'm not. As I said, I was just a teeny little bit pissed off. More than anything it's the addage that "God will not test you with anything that you cannot handle". And I had to handle this bloody thing for years, and instead of getting easier day by day, it got harder. That STILL probably sounds like I'm blaming God, so I guess in some obscure way I probably am, but I'm not gonna walk around saying "God dumps crap on people and never takes it off". I realise it is a persons own responsibility to help themselves, but I absolutely poured myself into the bible, into its teachings, into church, into theological studies to give me strength. And to no avail, it would seem. I don't know how much more I could've helped myself, to be honest.
Geoff: Maybe I just read your post wrong, but it seemed like you were backing off because you thought I was getting pissed off with you? Not the case, but either way, if you've got nothing to add...well, that hasn't stopped anybode ELSE so far... :D
Hey, you're allowed blame god for stuff. Last I heard, it's only the Pope that's infallible.
Besides, if god is at risk of being proven wrong, perhaps whacky hijinks will ensue, like in that delightful movie Dogma! You gotta admit, that was a great movie, and Ben Affleck was totally hot in it (for once). So get with the blaming god, because I like that movie.
Yuf, some things make NO sense, and then YOU come along and just explain it oh-so-perfectly...
You get 3 points!
Quote from: SSH on Sun 13/02/2005 18:52:12
Leaving aside whether homosexuality, or homosexual practice or whatever is a sin (and you've heard my calls for tolerance on this before) I've never heard of any kind of Christianity where you sinning is God's fault for not taking the sin away from you. When I was a teenager I used to pray that God would stop me from wanking.
Interesting note as well. Other than Onan, I'm unaware of an instance in the bible of God disapproving of this. Of course, Onan's punishment was death for distributing his seed without it being within a vagina. Then again, it was after intercourse and he was alone. God's laws seem to have changed based upon the need of the present society. It would make sense that masturbation and homosexuality would be against the best interests of Judaism and Christianity as both needed offspring for some time. However, in the present day, there are many Christians and there's not the same need to procreate in order to create more.
---
For me, personally, I don't believe that either the solo act or consensual same-sex acts are a sin but I do believe that according to the Christian faith both are. If someone's got an anti-masturbation verse, I wouldn't mind being educated but I think the main points in the Bible against it are because of how you, ah.. arrive at your conclusion. ~ If you commit adultery in your heart, or if a man looketh upon a woman lustfully, etc. ~ If you help yourself out and think about waffles, I wouldn't think it would count.
My sympathy, Peter, for being involved in the conundrum of homosexuality with this particular faith. It would seem that you've either got to find the middle-ground (if there is one) or commit to one or the other (easier said than done, I'm sure).
Oh, believe me, if there was a middle ground, then I'd be there with my white picket fence already.
So I'm commiting myself to the 'gay/evil side'. I suppose...
Before you commit to anything I think you should read over these wonderfully crafted, unobjective, non-biased, true to life comics right here:
http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/NEW%20Comics/bw/pages/BTW_1.htm
Then, make sure to throw out all your rock music too!
http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/NEW%20Comics/ww/pages/WW_1.htm
Because as we know, Manson isn't just a guy from Florida, he is a real life demon that exists and we live in the year 2005 and still believe in demons.... Remember that...
Gosh, Eric - I think you just saved my soul! Somehow...
Oh man, the "evil rock music" lyrics made me laugh.
"Sick dreams are made of fleas
Moldy breath and schoolyard cheese"
What the heck is schoolyard cheese, anyway? And do I really want to know?
And why is "There's no time for your--AAARRHHH!" cited to Proverbs 22:8, "He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail?" The art's kind of cool, but I honestly can't tell if they're satirical or not.
At least here in Germany, you can do free, anonymous HIV tests at your local public health department/health office/health authority/whatever it's called.
Holy crap...
This topic is STILL hot news?
What you saying, hyde? Punk!
Anyhow - ignoring the side-effects of caffeine - after doing a bit of looking it looks like I can get a free one done, but it's like a a two hour drive. Or I could get like a 10 dollar one for 5 minute drive...
But I really don't want to PAY to have someone tell me I'm going to die young.
And I'm so glad Valentines is over. And to think I was looking forward to it nigh on 3 months ago. Being single really makes you bitter, I guess. Now I only see it as some huge over-commercialised excuse for selling stupid pink balloons. Wow - THAT was irrelevant...
So back on topic, yeah... um... I'll get tested soon. I promise. But I've been saying that for a while now...
You're getting a HIV test?
What?
Nastassja Kinski!
Excuse me, but what does Natascha have to see with HIV? Is she infected?
I'd lie with her, anyway...
Yes yuf, I'm getting tested :)
Yay me.
You'll find that it's already been mentioned, oh, about fifty million times on previous pages...
Oh, what, shit, everybody is getting tested for AIDs? Where the hell have I been all this time?! I don't want to be unpopular. I want to get tested too. Where do I get tested for AIDs?
Any local doctor will do it. Well they SHOULD. Cost ranges from free through to about $20.
It's like the ultimate thrill!
omg I proved positive I was not aware that I was gay. omg.
heh - I think that was slightly less funny than you hoped...
No offence taken, so relax, but my chances of being positive are VERY real. I'm finding it a bit hard to laugh about :)
Actually... If you used you helmed when driving, you haven't shared razors or toothbrush, I think you shouldn't be so negative about a positive.
i know its a big deal, but just being gay isn't a reason to get unduly worried. as long as you're careful with parteners and take all the correct precautions, nothing should be wrong, if you didn't, then a test is surely in order cap'n
One thing's for certain. If there was any chance I might've been exposed to the virus, I'd get tested ASAP. The uncertainty would be kicking my ass. If positive, at least you'd know and start figuring out what parts of your life might need a little tweaking. If negative, I'd figure I'd gotten a second chance and would definitely maintain caution with a good amount of thankfulness for whatever deity's generosity.
Of course you wouldn't be obligated to let us know how it turns out, hell, doctors are specifically forbidden to share the information, but despite not knowing you personally, I'm still concerned and am (for lack of a better term) praying for a near miss.
Thanks guys :)
What's worrying is that we DID share razors and such, even if we both nicked ourselves, and we DID share toothbrushes (I never would've thought I'd be saying that since I'm extremely possessive of my dental tools for some reason...), and there was plenty of possible opportunity for the condition to be transmitted.
I don't think I'm being unduly worried, but then again most alcoholics insist that they aren't* , so I'm probably not the best judge of it.
And yeah, yakspit, the uncertainty IS kicking my ass. But right now I think getting a positive result would kick it just a little more, which is what has me so apprehensive right now...
Thanks for the 'prayers' guys. Let's hope they get answered :D
*alcoholic, not unduly worried
Oh, I thought you were saying you were going to get tested for AIDs because you were gay. My bad.
P.S. Schoolyard Cheese is that mouldy, plastic-tasting stuff that bad children get in their lunches.
I don't have spider senses and if I did, it would freak me out a bit. But nonetheless, they would probably be telling me you don't have it.
Baaaah... HIV has the same "infection power" as the influenza virus. It's supposed to be a "killer" who has intelligence, "jumps" out of bodies ifecting people and all that terrible things we can imagine about a "hollywood wannabe virus"... But it's not that powerfull. It may even be defeated in an early stage. We tend to think about it like a "one individual" infecter, but actually, we can say that a lone virus should be defeated quickly by the body deffenses. You shouldn't be infected by a little amount of blood in a toothbrush or a little drop in a razor. So don't be girlie, go to that doctor, and POST the results!
What were you thinking about Yak? That's something we must know! ;)
Actually... no, we mustn't... But I am really curious, and, even without knowing you, I am not just being politically correct if I say I expect for a "negative"... I am getting involved somehow... ^_^.
I thought this article about gay penguins (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1279583.html) might cheer everyone up. Even after they flew in some special order hot penguin babes, the penguins remained faithful to their respective men. Gay marriage:1 Judgmental bigots: ZERO
The gay penguin thing is awesome, because their relationship was supposed to be like that just because there weren't enough female penguins, but looks like they've become attached to each other. Awwww! There was a case where a gay penguin couple tried to get pregnant, but naturally couldn't. So the scientist gave them a few eggs, and they started looking after them.
Quote from: MrColossal on Mon 14/02/2005 03:39:08
Before you commit to anything I think you should read over these wonderfully crafted, unobjective, non-biased, true to life comics right here:
http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/NEW%20Comics/bw/pages/BTW_1.htm
Then, make sure to throw out all your rock music too!
http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/NEW%20Comics/ww/pages/WW_1.htm
Because as we know, Manson isn't just a guy from Florida, he is a real life demon that exists and we live in the year 2005 and still believe in demons.... Remember that...
I don't think I understood that comic very well...who was right, the Bigot/Punk, the Caring sister..or the Religous one(A mixture of the other two?)
Quote
I
won't use those
deceptive terms no matter
how often the liberal media tries to
reinforce them!
Non-biased indeed.Ã, ;D
QuoteA keeper confirmed that the male couples had adopted rocks which they were guarding like eggs in their caves.
Ha ha! Stupid Penguins!
QuoteThe zoo has said that it will try again in Spring 2006, because the penguins are an endangered species and need to be encouraged to breed.
Homophobes!
heh, that penguin thing is GREAT! Made me laugh out loud. That is kinda cute :)
Oh, and I'm going for HIV test tomorrow. Wish me all the best people!
I wish you all the best people.
Best of luck. Keeping my fingers crossed for ya'.
(how long do the results for these things take to come back again?)
Thanks eric ;) Oz, not too sure about the time length. There are things you can buy from chemists that are a bit like pregnancy tests and give you results in about 5 minutes, but the proper blood tests the doctor will do can take up to 14 days.
Plus, of course, theses tests may not be conclusive. You can be infected with HIV up to 6 months before any tests will pick up, so naturally if this one is negative, I'm still going to have to go for another round the 6 month mark. But at least by then i'll be more prepared for it...
Aw, man... how did I miss this thread? I'm probably hanging out too much in the Tech Forum or something. So I guess I should write something down, to avoid homework:
You know, I'm kind of lazy to read all the replies to this thread (20+ freaking pages which are giving me headaches) but from what I've been reading it sounds like your relatives are annoyingly religious. But this thread has been almost transformed into the belief that the only religion in the world is christianity, and it is the only true and scientifically-proven religion, and I think this is what making my head spin because I don't think that way.
I personally don't care about someone's "choice" (is it a choice?) of sexual lifestyle. I don't think it's a sin or whatever you want to call it. If people are secure enough that they know they like other people of their same gender from a friendly and sexual standpoint, then I agree that their homosexuality is just fine. Now, it's not that simple, of course, because with the pressure of most cultures (I guess we all agree that all over the world it is a lifestyle that is frowned upon by the majority) can drive people mad.
For me? I've yet to get used to the idea. I'm kind of weirded out by it but it's because I just have a hard time understanding how can one like a others of their own sex too much because I personally don't. It's kind of like those zoo people who are baffled by the fact that the male penguins are totally gay, except that I'm not going to attempt to turn anyone around to straightness; I just scratch my head and wonder because it's like a mystery of the universe to me. :P I don't have any strong feelings towards it or anything, however. What really makes me wonder is those crazy people who are fucked up in the head and decide that they want to try to be homo/bi for a while, like it's a flavor of ice cream. ??? Perhaps they are just bi or gay but they're too insecure to admit it or something. I hope someone understands what I'm talking about because I just go on and on and on.... :D
Notice that I did not refer to any religious shit in my last sentence. I think religion.... well, it's a whole other subject. I bet there's thread out there where it's discussed.
Anyway, I wish you the best on your HIV/AIDS/SIDA test... It would suck if you get positive.
Edit: People are so nitpicky! :P (See reply to this message)
QuoteI would suck if you get positive
Without being TOO vulgar, I certainly think you would
not be doing that... :)
Good luck on your test, Peter.
I think maybe I should go get tested, too... Just to be safe.
[a little off-subject]
I always thought that when one of your close friends came out, it was supposed to be earth-shattering, and a big shock, especially if they never displayed and homosexual tendencies before and always said that they were disgusted at the thought of themselves being involved in homosexual acts. But a girl I dated over the summer just came out, who also fits the profile I just mentioned, and it's kinda funny... it's really no big deal. It's kinda like... "O.k. So you're a lesbian." I'm just glad to see that she's happy for a change.
The only thing is, she hasn't come completely out of the closet... her mom and her two children don't know anything about it.
[/a little off-subject]
I could sort of understand being reluctant to come out to her children....
Not sure if I mentioned this previously, but my ex-girlfriend (now my best friend) found out her mum was a lesbian about 2 months ago, and she was in love with a woman who was already in a lesbian relationship with one of her best friends. A bit complicated....
Now my ex doesn't have ANY problems with homosexuality - it's just uncomfortable for her to imagine her MUM being gay, since it means she has to accept she didn't LOVE her dad the way she said she did and things like that. And yes, this is still a little off-subject....
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Thu 17/02/2005 04:09:05
of course, theses tests may not be conclusive. You can be infected with HIV up to 6 months before any tests will pick up
Yeah, I was going to say something about that too, but figured it best that some medical person tell you instead (or thought it possible that you already knew but that it was irrelevant since it coud have been long enough since last possible infection opprtunity).
EDIT: I was sure I had something better to say than that... Seriously.
Well my parents just gave me the most AMAZING gift!
A book.
But not just ANY book! No, THIS book is called "Help for men who struggle with sexual identity!"
And the snappy catch-phrase under the title is "The problems are real - but so are the solutions..."
How very very damn patronizing. I thought they were accepting me and sort of giving me space for a while, and now I see they just backed off with a whole bunch of books to read that they're now palming off to me.
And that's just crap becuase I was having a really good day today (after having a damn lot of bad ones), and now they've just thrown me straight back into depression ( <- melodramatic word, I know...)
I was actually considering telling them about the HIV test, but now feel like there's no way I can do it yet. I realise I still have to get through the whole "Yes, i AM gay!" stage first, which I thought I'd got through... argh! I'm just really angry now.
I know they were doing it out of love and concern. I just wish they hadn't.
Speaking as a parent myself, and this applies to everyone, I would say that unless your parents are completely manic depressive or certifable nutbags, then they love you a lot. Sorry to continue being patronising, but unles syou have kids you really cant understand how much a parent loves their children, no matter what. Even if they disown you, etc. its usually because they think that what you're doing is wrong and they want to use whatever leverage they have to get you to not do it. Of course, they dont realise that trying that kind of stunt hurts people more than it changes behaviour, but there you go.
Anyway, the point of this is, by reading those books they were trying to understand and accept you. Now, being christians they probably found a bunch of books that might not engender the attitude to you and your sexuality that you might hope, but at least they care enough to try and understand: remember that for right or wrong, this is all very difficult and confusing for them too. So, have hope: they're probably on YOUR side more than they are on the side of any book or any dogma. My advice would be to use this as a foot in the door to make your announcement. Give yourself enoguh time first to at least pretend you have read the book , or they might just say "We'll talk about it after you read the book", but then tell them how you feel and that you feel you ARE this way and you don't think that any kind of "conversion back to straightness" would be anything other than brainwashing.
I hope I'm not out of line in saying this, but to me the most important thing here is to keep a good relationship with your parents and with God. If you want some Christian backup in this, I'd be willing to talk to them on the phone or by email: PM if you want my contact details. You could mention that I'm a married straight evangelical christian with 2 kids... ;)
I have to say that I agree with SSH here. As soon as I read that they gave you that book, I thought, in a strange sort of way, that's a really good sign. You can't expect them to change right away, and although I get angry at people who aren't totally accepting of this sort of thing, or who try to change people "back", etc... it just seemed kind of sweet in an odd sort of way. Even though I'm sure they want nothing more than for you to turn up with a pretty girl and a ring on her finger, it means that they aren't cutting you off, and they do care about you. At least, that's the way it seems to me. It's their own crazy little way of reaching out to you. I think they probably just don't know -what- they're supposed to be doing, and they just don't know that the way you are IS okay.
I'm not sure I made a whole lot of sense, but... well, I'm sure they love you and want what's best for you.
Quote from: SSH on Thu 17/02/2005 11:31:42
I hope I'm not out of line in saying this, but to me the most important thing here is to keep a good relationship with your parents and with God. If you want some Christian backup in this, I'd be willing to talk to them on the phone or by email: PM if you want my contact details. You could mention that I'm a married straight evangelical christian with 2 kids... ;)
Your comments were very well put, however I'm wondering how this would go over:
Peter: Mum, Dad, there's someone on the phone I want you to talk to.
SSH: Hullo, I know you don't know me but I've been chatting with your son online and he seems like a pretty good bloke.. anyway..
M&D: [click]
Ohhh let ME talk to your parents on the phone, let ME do it! I swear to god they'll love me! Oh god let ME do it! I love talking to parents!
"buy your son PSYCHONAUTS to help him! BUY IT! buy a copy for yourself, too! worship tim! what, you don't know tim schafe? burn in hell! go to timisgod.mixnmojo.com!"
I just relised I've never met a gay person face to face.Ã, :'(
...Or have I?
I wouldn't be so quick to take the book as a negative either. I don't know your parents, but maybe in their sort of "we know, but we don't want to actually SAY anything because we're uncomfortable about it (or they don't want to say anything before you do, even)" way, maybe they're trying to tell you "we know you're gay (or probably are) so if you ever want to TALK about it, then we're here".
Either way, I do think it shows some willingness to accept on their part, even if, in a worst case scenario that it's a "straight up and fly right" kind of response (I can't BELIEVE I actually used that bad a pun just now... I'm so sorry...), at least they're showing that they're not in COMPLETE denial and that they still want what's best for you. If that is the case, all you have to do is have them realize that what's best for you isn't what's best for everyone (yeah, I know it may not be an easy sell, but I think they'd come around eventually).
I hope that some of that made sense.
P, When I read your reply I thought of it as your parents are giving you this book because maybe they think that you're insecure about your sexual preference, and they want to help. I wouldn't take it too seriously myself.
Let me call them! but you know, I can only type in English. Everything else that comes out of my mouth is monkey jibberish. :P
It's interesting how in a situation like this the gay kids are the ones with enornmous amounts of patience... and hope... and understanding.
Quote from: Cont on Thu 17/02/2005 17:04:07
Ohhh let ME talk to your parents on the phone, let ME do it! I swear to god they'll love me! Oh god let ME do it! I love talking to parents!
Will you call my parents? I'd be weird enough to actually let you do it.
Yes.
Ah, nearly wet myself reading these :D
They really put a smile on my face!
I thought a lot about what I wanted to say to them last night, and pretty much figured it out. Now I just have to find the right time to bring it up. Probably when they ask me "so have you finished that book yet?"
I know they're doing it out of love etc - I really do get that. But it's still hard. It'd be great if they all just got one massive burst of amnesia and i was able to say something like "Oh, hi. I'm you're son. And I'm gay. And you love it."
You know what? Life is
full of shit. Absolutely full of it. Which is why you have to make fun of it. If I found out I had AIDs, I would try to turn it in to a funny story. Because the great thing about stuff like that is, you can say the most awful, awful, wicked stuff, and people laugh because you're being funny, but then they feel horrible that they laughed because you also are suffering. So you can get them to do pretty much anything you want for you, after that.
I mean, any time anything horrible happens to me, I make a funny story out of it. I nearly died in a car crash once, quite recently, and when I told people they just laughed at me. Oh, one or two people said, "I hope you are okay". Polite people. But most people thought it was hilarious. And then I would start crying and they'd feel awful. Except for everybody at Idle Forums, they just laughed. Fuckers!
Or, for a lesser example; http://timisgod.mixnmojo.com <-- the latest update there. I didn't like my Dad telling me about Gene Wilder having sex. I don't like my Dad. But then when people say, "Ha ha, Gene Wilder having sex, that's great!" I start crying and then they feel bad. You see? You see the genius in that? They thought I was being funny, and then I start crying, and they think they must be wicked, evil people that enjoy the suffering of others. Which is true, anyway.
So, even in the incredibly unlikely event that you do have it, think of it as something like this:
Peter: While I was at the Doctor, an old lady fell over and smashed her face on the ground, it was hilarious!
Everybody: Ha ha ha ha!
Peter: Jesus Christ, I have AIDs, you fuckers![/list]
Similarly, since you don't have AIDs (or so your parents told me over the phone earlier on), the conversation could also work like this:
Peter: I got my test results back today. I don't have AID's!
Everybody: Hurray!
Peter: But while I was in the waiting room an old lady fell over and smashed her face on the ground, you fuckers![/list]
Yufster, would you marry me? I think I love you. Well - more accurately your ability to get people to do things for you, but there's not THAT much difference...
And I'll feed you twice a week.
Alright, but I think I'd better talk this over with your parents first.
Cool, then everyone is happy... forum people getting married, forum people calling parents... it's all good.
Also, Yuf, why do you write "AIDs"? According to the wiki, AIDS is Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome or Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. It's not plural for anything... :=
My cat had AIDS and died. It caught FIV somehow.
Technically it drowned. It coughed up it's guts and bled into it's lungs.
poor Fluffy.
Jumping into this thread at page 21 is maybe a bit late, but I reckon it's always good time for a few words of support.
Peter, congratulations on coming to terms with who you are. That's really great. I'm sorry to hear about the problems and lack of acceptance you are facing. It seems like a completely different world from what I know, and I'm shocked and horrified whenever I hear stories like this.
I feel confident about one thing: tolerance is on the march. Things will get easier for you in time. Blatant discrimination will be illegal, and the fear and the hate will start to retreat. A righteous cause will, in the end, prevail.
And good luck on that HIV test, man.
[/offtopic]Andail's comment pages back made me think of a friend of mine who came out back in college. When he was drunk he would hit on me (jokingly, but you know...). That made me uncomfortable, as I'm straight. Then he stopped doing it. That made me feel bad about myself. People are very, very inconsistent.
Las, I have no idea if the first part of your post is serious or not, given the last three sentences... :) I know hiv positive chimps can't get aids, so I assume the same is true for other animals...
And Snarky, people ARE very inconsistent. I remember in my final years of high-school when a girl had a crush on me, I was kinda put-off and very, very spooked. I thought "No way is ANYTHING going to happen with her..." and then when she lost interest, I was put off again, thinking "Hey - why did she lose interest? That's not fair! She's meant to have a crush on me!"
Oh, and Yuf, I'll pm you my number if you're really interested, complete with my parents full names, list of medications taken (if any), current moods and social standing. Just remember - when you talk to them - DON'T have an accent; DON'T have original ideas or opinions, and DON'T DON'T DON'T use the words "You", "Are" and "Wrong" in the same sentence. Ever.
Other than that - I think you should get a long with them fine :D
Didn't want to jump into any of the debates going on, as I'm still at odds with some of my particularly religious mates, because my best friend's gay. I mean, they're still friends with me, they just don't approve of my company. Anyhooo...
Good luck, especially with the test. I'm not a particularly devout Christian, but God loves us for who we are. Something to remember when things get difficult. And remember, your parents love you, no matter what (something I'm only beginning to appreciate myself).
I don't know about the whole "parents loving you" thingee. My Dad is still pissed that he had to donate a kidney to me.
And Yufster is right - if something bad happens to you, make it funny. Don't take everything so damn seriously. You'll never get out of life alive.... I make light of the fact that I had to have a kidney transplant everyday, because, well, I have three kidney's for fuck's sake! Betcha didn't KNOW they don't take out the old ones, they just stuff a new one in ya behind your hip bone! Weird, eh? Everyone calls me triple kidney and we all laugh. Why? Because, there's no sense in feeling all self-righteous all the time.
Bt
They don't remove the kidney? That's cool. I'd brag about that.
I suppose I could brag about aids too, at least to the right people... I suppose. I tried it on my ex-girlfriend, and she was all like "agh! You freaked the hell out of me! Don't EVER do that again! That's not funny!". I asked if she wanted to donate money to me, for being so heartless. She said "no".
After I explained why I did it she calmed down, and had a bit of a chuckle. A bit... But I wouldn't half mind being self-righteous all the time. It's one hell of a feeling... And you're all "I have aids and I'M STILL BETER THAN YOU! PWNED!" I guess...
Okay - so I ended up having the HIV test done early this morning. I should get results in 1-2 weeks...
And they gave me a lollipop for being so "brave". I was too scared shitless to really argue...
Nice Timing, too.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=14&u=/ap/20050220/ap_on_he_me/aids_list_e_mail
Cont, you are the most INSENSITVE person on the face of this earth! You should feel SOOO guilty for putting me through this emotional crap! In fact, you should feel SO guilty for all of that, that you'll be giving me all your money and monetary belongings.
(How'd I go on the 'guilt' thing?)
Not nearly Jewish enough.
-MillsJROSS
This thread is still here? I'd have thought it'd be in Popular by now.
Oh no... Something isn't popular until it reaches at least 22 pages...
Getting there, then! And with two weeks to go before you can sigh of relief and tell us all that you're well and the test was negative, we'll be sure to get to 30 at least! :D
EDIT - Seriously, that's the only reason I check this thread anymore. I'm waiting for you to announce that you're ok.
EDIT 2 - Whohoo! 22nd page! Go me! :=
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Mon 21/02/2005 23:39:40
Oh no... Something isn't popular until it reaches at least 22 pages...
Yeah people! Let's take this one to 22!!!!! Yahoo!
And good luck with your test results, PT. I'm rooting for ya.
Bt
I think that the popular threads forum are for ones that are repeatedly restarted again and again by different n00bs, not for individual threads. After all, a n00b isn't liekly to post a coming out thread as one of their first.
What SSH said seems a fair enough assessment of what happens with the 'popular' threads. But then, doesn't that sort of go AGAINST the definition of "popular" - only being brought up every so often, as opposed to being regularly checked and posted in? Or was I terribly stupid at school for not realising that the TRULY popular kids were the ones who only got spoken to once every three weeks?
Anyway, what brings me back is an update. The 'doctor' wants another blood sample. Apparently my last one somehow got contaminated. Well, at least that's what seems to be the case. They wouldn't tell me exactly why they needed another one, suffice to say that "my previous blood-drawing might have been compromised in some way, and they would prefer to err on the side of caution."
So off I go down tomorrow morning to have a nice big needle stuck in me again, seeing my life-blood flow through some curly tubes into a jar and into the hands of some complete stranger who's about to tell me if I've got aids or not.
Ain't life grand?
[/irony]