Adventure Game Studio

Hey Bone fans, I'm starting to make a reMAKE of the Bone: Out From Boneville game, except in 2D (like the LucasArts games).  I have the standing view done for all the Bone cousins, Thorn, and Gran'ma Ben. Pictures of these characters to follow soon...

Just a quick pointer: NO NEED!

I mean, why remake bone? Leave it be. Ok, make a sequel but why would you remake something so...well...average.
Well, do what you wish, but it's not a smart choice in my book.

A prequil would be good, the charactors are endearing, and it would be fun to see WHY they got tossed out of boneville. It make of boneville would be tough. I mean how do you translate the comics goals into adventure game goals?  thats why adventures games make terrible storys, and storys, per say, strictly used, make terrible adventture games.

Just how many games are you making?

Yeah, i'm wondering that too.

And I'm thinking here: Why do you even bother inform us about these projects you're never going to do anyway? You posted about another project of yours in the Recruit A Team thread just two minutes before this. Just focus on ONE (1) project at the time, don't even try to work on many games at the same time. That will not work.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=25094

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=25247

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=25395

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=25473

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=25539

Please, pick one of these and work on it.

Quote from: lo_res_man on Thu 23/03/2006 17:00:58
A prequil would be good, the charactors are endearing, and it would be fun to see WHY they got tossed out of boneville.

I believe that the comic book (yes, the BOOK) has already spelled out quite clearly why the Bone cousins were run out of Boneville.

yes but why in a more detailed way. phoney bone. (the greedy one, i think) with all his get rich plabns would be funny to watch in action. yes its clear, but doing those things sounds ( to me) like a riot. just an idea, take it or leave it.

thank you all for your criticism and speculation. Here's why I'm making this game and(even though I'making other games):

1. I have PLENTY of spare time and am free all the time.
2 (this is not a reason, it's a reply to something someone said). I finished another game and posted on recruit a team for
people's voices for the talkie version of that game. I didn't post for a team to help me.
3. I stopped doing the Indiana Jones and Brian Jacques game projects. SO, that leaves a lot that I can do.
4. My PC doesn't have a 3d accelearator card and so it can't play the 3d bone game.
5. I love Bone. Whoever it was that didn't know why the Bone cousins got run outta Boneville, GET A LIFE! No offence :)Ã, 
6. I always wanted to do a Bone game, even before the 3d game came out, heck, even before I HEARD of the 3d game.
7. A prequel does sound like a good idea. MAybe I'll even tie in a prequel to the actual game.

oh, and 
11. I HATE 3D adventure games.  :=

How can you remake a game you can't play?

I'm not really remaking it, I'm making "my own version" of it. It's going to be like what would've happened if LucasArts had made a game of Bone during the beginnings of Bone in 1992-1995

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Thu 23/03/2006 20:45:38
thank you all for your criticism and speculation. Here's why I'm making this game(even though I'making other games):

1. I have PLENTY of spare time and am free all the time.
2. I finished another game and posted on recruit a team for
people's voices for the talkie version of that game. I didn't post for a team to help me.
3. I stopped doing the Indiana Jones and Brian Jacques game projects. 
4. SO, that leaves a lot that I can do.
5. My PC doesn't have a 3d accelearator card and so it can't play the 3d bone game.
6. I love Bone.
7. Whoever it was that didn't know why the Bone cousins got run outta Boneville, GET A LIFE!
8. No offence :) 
9. I always wanted to do a Bone game, even before the 3d game came out, heck, even before I HEARD of the 3d game.
10. A prequel does sound like a good idea. MAybe I'll even tie in a prequel to the actual game.

2, 4, 7, 8, and 10 aren't reasons :D.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Thu 23/03/2006 20:48:27
oh, and 
11. I HATE 3D adventure games.  :=

Every post you see that you authored, there is a "modify" link in the upper right corner (as long as you are signed in) right next to the "reply with quote" link. This link is your friend, and will save you from potential verbal abuse if used correctly :P.

Why not just make something, then post about it? Not just..

"I'm planning on making something, I'll let you know when I've actually got anything to show for it".

This is a forum, not a blog.

By the way, I'm thinking of ordering a pizza.  I'll post again to let you know when I've ordered it, and then again when it arrives.  After that, I'll post to let you know that I'm thinking about writing a review of it after I've eaten it.  After that, I'll post to tell you that I've eaten it and am about to start the review.

After that, I'll post to tell you that I'm thinking of ordering a curry next week.

Dammit now I feel like making a pizza...

Quote from: Spleen on Sat 25/03/2006 20:27:20
By the way, I'm thinking of ordering a pizza.Ã,  I'll post again to let you know when I've ordered it, and then again when it arrives.Ã,  After that, I'll post to let you know that I'm thinking about writing a review of it after I've eaten it.Ã,  After that, I'll post to tell you that I've eaten it and am about to start the review.

WHAT??!! You mean to say you won't post about when the pizza comes out the other end?

well, for one, I don't know how to post screenshots, so I CAN'T have anything to show for it. I have screenshots on a website, but I don't know what the coding is to post screenshots.  :P  :'(

You can find out how to post images here: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/Themes/default/help/posting.english.html#bbcref

Or you can make a link to that website, that doesn't require any coding at all ^_^

check in the production thread everyone... there's a working thread for this game with screenshots and everything :=

QuoteIt's going to be like what would've happened if LucasArts had made a game of Bone during the beginnings of Bone in 1992-1995

No... no. Not at all.

QuoteIt's going to be like what would've happened if Midas Entertainment had drawn a scene out of Bone very quickly during the beginnings of time in 3000,000,000BC-2999,999,992BC

Corrected.
Corrected to the max.

Quote from: yodaman11111
well, for one, I don't know how to post screenshots, so I CAN'T have anything to show for it. I have screenshots on a website, but I don't know what the coding is to post screenshots.

[and..]

check in the production thread everyone... there's a working thread for this game with screenshots and everything :=

1.Ã,  You could've just put the address of the image. Or read above the Message box during a post where it has a link saying "How do I post images, smileys and formatting?".
It's not rocket science.

and..

2.Ã,  Why not just put the thread in the Games in Production?Ã,  Was it really necessary to start a thread in Gen-Gen?

EDIT:
I just saw this was moved from Adventure Related Talk & Chat.  It's not really necessary to post it there either, tho.

well, he did, but the "art" was so bad it made my eyes pack up and take a vacation.( but I got the buggers, they forgot about the optic nerve!:D ) I am usully forgiving to all people who make pixal art and all that, but DAMN, it didn't even seem to show any care being put into it :P just scribbles.
sorry friend but, DAMN it was BAD.

The characters are good, the bgs aren't too good though. If anyone wants to help with the backgrounds, they can. And btw, I'm REDOING most of the backgrounds so there, loresman. And many other games have bad bgs AND characters (especially Life of D. Duck). Go to www.freewebs.com/bonevillegames to see some characters (and whoever it was that posted on that site's guestbook and put R U GAY?, you are a pervert and don't go there anymore).

It is used as a gimmick in D. Duck, to resemble kids drawings, and it was fun too. If everyone started to make D. Duck copies, the idea would grow old fast, without writing to save it. Just like modern art can be a cut up newspaper on a pedestal, it isn't as cool the second time you see it. Avoid gimmicks.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Tue 28/03/2006 18:10:17
The characters are good,

uh huh,  well like biothlebop  said "Avoid Gimmicks" believe me, its just annoying. it 's kind of funny you have this nice clean website. nice and organic looking, and these crap (just cuz D. Duck did it doesn't mean YOU should) characters. Boneville is such a nice graphic novel that I don't think it does the game a LICK of justice to draw such BAD "art"
sorry if this offends, but don't  I think drawing these endearing characters in such a way is in any way defensible.

why the hell dont you like 3d adventure games?
theyre EXACTLY the same really but 3d.
I'll admit the artwork sometimes is better than the 3d environment but hell, its story and content that counts.

For whatever graphics program you are using, I'm sure there is a circle tool to draw circles as you hold down the mouse button to your desired size. This could be used when redoing the moon, or any of the Bone boys. Such as their head, torso or nose. I believe this would be a good help.

Another thing that bothers me, is that one of the boys has an arm that is not curved, like a muscle, but is a jagged line, which I just can't understand. Please try to take your time when making your art. It's okay for it not to come out the way you want it the first time. We all hit the undo button. And no one here would be upset if you were to half-trace Smith's work, at least for the Bone brothers, since we'll be seeing them the whole game.

Seems I do one of these posts every few months.

Okay, I have some advice for you yoda and it's up to you whether you listen to it.

Firstly, I took a look at your Games in Production thread after reading this thread, and I think that while people were corrent about your art being quite low quality, it's your right to make any kind of game you want.  People have the right to tell you they think it's a bad idea, but you have the right to make it anyway if you like. Making games, no matter how crappy, is good practise and you will only get better and better. I encourage you to follow the game through and finish it. Learn from it, have fun with it, and then come up with a better idea the next time.

If you want to get along with people in these forums, you're going to have to change your attitude though.

Firstly, don't take jabs at the moderators. Particularly Darth because he does a -wonderful- job of keeping the Games in Production forum in check and if you knew him probably, I'm sure you'd like him. It won't earn you any respect and you'll never win. The moderators here are moderators because they're mature, know the board well, have been here a long, long time and people respect them. If you don't like something a moderator has done, the mature thing is just to swallow your pride and take it.

Secondly, I recommend you cool off your posting until you've viewed the forum for long enough that you know what kinds of things belong in which forums. Don't try to tell me you know now, because you　clearly don't.  It will take time and patience, but eventually, you'll get there! :) Just try to restrain yourself, watch others and learn. Don't double post (modify your original posts). Ask for art advice in the Critic's Lounge.

Also, I highly recommend you don't just take shots at other games. You're never going to earn any respect by saying, "These famous, well-liked AGS games have crappy art so it's okay for my game to have crappy art". People aren't going to take kindly to you saying these successful games have crappy art. D. Duck of course is an exception because that's the style it was purposely trying to do and as people have pointed out, it's a joke that's only funny once in a while.

My final piece of advice is just to calm down, work on your game by yourself (get help in the Critic's Lounge by all means) and do it FOR yourself, learn from it. Don't start new threads for a bit, just read the forums for awhile and learn how other people behave here.

I guarantee if you can take my advice well and ignore any mean comments people may throw at you (just in case, not saying that's already happened) and act maturely, you'll eventually become a respected member here like everyone else.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Tue 28/03/2006 18:10:17
The characters are good, the bgs aren't too good though. If anyone wants to help with the backgrounds, they can. And btw, I'm REDOING most of the backgrounds so there, loresman. And many other games have bad bgs AND characters (especially Life of D. Duck). Go to www.freewebs.com/bonevillegames to see some characters (and whoever it was that posted on that site's guestbook and put R U GAY?, you are a pervert and don't go there anymore).

Characters are good? Er, depends on how you define good, I s'pose.

This Life of D. Duck. Did the artist say on many occassions that the artwork was good or going to be remade to be better? Ã, If (s)he did, were they being serious? (I've not played or seen it, so I can't judge).

And as for complaining about comments on your guest book.. Ã, Why bother making a guest book if you're going to throw a fuss over the comments? Ã, It's like having a suggestion box and then stropping if some one suggests something you don't like. Ã, People are entitled to their opinions, no matter how childish. Ã, If you give them an outlet, don't start moaning that someone has used it. Ã, Also, what is perverted about about "R U GAY?". Ã, It could have been a lot worse. Ã, Unless you're ridiculously homophobic or something. Ã, I'm assuming you're quite young, so I'd suggest you don't go critising people and cultures you have no experience of. Ã, It'll get to the point where you offend someone you shouldn't, and you'll suffer because of it.

Anyhow. As to my reason for posting..

The site. Ã, Aside from the midi files that play automatically, which annoys me greatly, since it's the standard "I have nothing to say, but I want a website" style of HTML from the late nineties..

It looks like you've put more effort into the site than you have into the game. Ã, I'm mean, Jesus. Ã, Make something, then make a site to promote it. Ã, Make anything for that matter, then promote it. Ã, The site should be secondary to a product. Ã, If you're that desperate to have an online personality, get a livejournal blog, or a myspace page. Ã, Something where you can tell us what music you like, what your favorite food is, what your idea of a dream date is, and what color socks you're wearing at the moment.

Or better than that, don't.. Ã, Because they are already too many desperate losers on the internet with absolutely nothing to say, but who still need a place to say it.

what do you think is bad about the characters besides the jagged-ey arm? I think it looks decent In comparison to everything. This is only my second full-blown project ith ags so I'm still learning. I'll clean up the character art a bit if it looks any better... and about the website, Spleen, I don't like people putting rude comments like that, because I'm against gay people. The website barely had ANY time put into it anyways, 'cuz it was freewebs. Oh, and I hate 3d adventure games because they are never as good as the classic 2d ones and also because my computer can't play very many of them and also because the adventure genre is just better in 2d. And why does everyone only have negative things to say about this project?!......

If you want help and advice as to how to improve your characters, make a post in the Critic's Lounge.  People aren't going to respond to you here.
As for the rest of your post, I would suggest watching what you type, and making sure that's what you really want to say...

Sierra and Lucasfilm point & click adventure games were sometimes categorized as 3D action adventure games at their time...

yoda: Me and my sexy underwear model girlfriend are against you too. So ner.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Wed 29/03/2006 04:48:37
Oh, and I hate 3d adventure games because they are never as good as the classic 2d ones and also because my computer can't play very many of them

then how do you know that theyre bad then and why you against gays? i'm not one of them but being completely against them is just politically incorrect and crap.
I bet your a member of one of one of those conservative American Bushbumming families

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Wed 29/03/2006 04:48:37I hate 3d adventure games because they are never as good as the classic 2d ones and also because my computer can't play very many of them

I'd be just extremely sad if my computer couldn't run Doom, Heretic, Hexen etc. but not hate those games or the FPS genre all in all for it.

Btw. Ever played Full Throttle? It's 3Dy and a very excellent game.

i'd probably just get it upgraded.
its not TOO expensive to get halfdecent software.
and grim fandango is the greatest lucasarts adventure ever and its 3d.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Wed 29/03/2006 04:48:37
Spleen, I don't like people putting rude comments like that, because I'm against gay people.

Just for that I'm not doing any voices for your next game! Well... okay I wasn't going to anyway to be honest.

Nope, I haven't played Full throttle. I hope to get that or The Dig at some point. They both sound like excellent games. I'd download the abandonware copies of them but my internet's too slow to. And about all that homosexual stuff: Being politically correct is monkey crap. That means that you accept everything as ok. I guess you think terrorists, thieves, rapers, druggies, and other lowlifes are ok, then, right  :P? I may be a *Canadian* Bushbummer (or in my case, Harper) but at least I don't support a guy that looks like Herman Munster and acts like **** (or in canada, a guy that always frowns and is financially stupid, meaning Paul Martin). Enough of this frickin' stupid talk . This thread is supposed to be about a game. Oh, and by the way, ManicMatt, my game is too old school-styled to have voices. They were just an add-on which I guess I won't have.

I'm against gay people AND straight people. I like to be equal opportunity in my discrimination.

since we're on the 'tired internetisms' part of the thread, I'll throw this in:

You're not a misanthrope, you just need to get laid.

Quote from: Hammerite on Wed 29/03/2006 16:15:34
then how do you know that theyre bad then and why you against gays? i'm not one of them but being completely against them is just politically incorrect and crap.
I bet your a member of one of one of those conservative American Bushbumming families

Is it just me or did we used to have a minimum age of 16 on these forums?

Quote from: Helm on Wed 29/03/2006 19:39:41
You're not a misanthrope, you just need to get laid.

Oui, je suis tres laid. Votre point c'est?

Je prefere le poule.

Je ne veux dire aucun mal, mais j'ai pensé que l'anglais était la langue les règles de forum dites pour employer.

Joko taas, goddamnit...

je parle francais tres'mal.  ;D

yoda, thanks for telling me about beyond reality, i never heard of the game, and so i went to see how bad the art is, but to my surprise, i think its one of the better ags games out there.

oh, and dont play my 3d game in my signature.  ;D

Je ne le parle pas du tout, j'emploie juste le Google
but anyway, shouldn't we be gettting back on topic? :P

This thread had a topic?

Quote from: LimpingFish on Wed 29/03/2006 21:17:13
This thread had a topic?

Ya, I seem to remember something about bones, bones, grim Fandango, perhaps? or maybe, just maybe about the boneville graphic novel?! Nah, couldn't be, that can't be it

it was about a Bone game that I'm making which nobody likes. Everyone is so superficial, just caring about how good the backgrounds look.

So then make your game and disabuse us  ;D

This thread is getting totally off topic. I think someone should lock/delete it.   

I was just wondering... is it even legal for you to be writing a Bone game, anyway?

It's legal unless your planning on selling it.

Life isn't that simple.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Thu 30/03/2006 00:43:31
It's legal unless your planning on selling it.

You have been misinformed.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Wed 29/03/2006 22:13:58
it was about a Bone game that I'm making which nobody likes. Everyone is so superficial, just caring about how good the backgrounds look.

haha, and "I hate 3d adventures" isn't superficial.

Whatever happened to people making ROtN games to make their mark on this forum?

RON games require too much effort nowadays.Ã,  It's better to pick a game and/or comic that's actually made someone some money and rape that, anally, in the vague hope of gaining misplaced respect instead of making something that's even partly original or legal.

And yodaman, I'm sorry if I've sounded "nasty" in the past.Ã,  This possibilty has been pointed out to me recently, by ProgZMAX.Ã,  Until now, I didn't mean for any of my posts to seem like they were attacking you personally in some way, and if you've taken them in that way, I apologise.

Just to clarify..

Quote
Until now..

Make something original.Ã,  Or failing that, make something, in general. Don't tell us you're going to make something. Don't post art in the wrong place, and tell us you intend to improve it.Ã,  Make it good the first time.

If you can't make it good, post it in the critics lounge, and ask for help there.

Effort.Ã,  That's the main thing.Ã,  That will earn you points in here.Ã,  Not saying you're going to do this or you're going to do that, and then changing to a new project a few days later.Ã,  That just annoys people.Ã,  I've never made a game, and I've been here for years.Ã,  I'm still working on my skills and style, art-wise.Ã,  Time doesn't matter.Ã,  You keep saying you have loads of free time.Ã,  Instead of using that time to make banal posts, why don't you actually try to work on something?

Oh, wait, that might mean you actually have to put some kind of effort into something..

As for the comments in various threads about there being a minimum age of 16 (or at least acting that way) on these boards, ..Ã,  How old are you, actually?Ã,  From your style of writing, and your arrogance, I'm guessing you're 14 tops.Ã,  I'd be intrigued to know officially, though.

And as for the "Bushbummers" comment you made.Ã,  Did you not think about that before typing it?Ã,  You're against gays, which makes you either 1. A fanatically religious f*ckwit with no knowledge of the real world, or 2. A f*ckwit who's listened to his homophobic parents, who are most likely using strong feelings against a type of person to cover the fact that they're attracted to them, but not confident enough in there own sexuality to say so.

"Bushbummer" suggests Ass-f*cking of President Bush, who's a man.Ã,  Something which you claim to be against.Ã,  That's the meaning of "someone-bummer".Ã,  Seriously? You hate homosexuals, but you sodomise Bush or the Canadian equivalent?Ã,  Maybe you should pull head out of your own ass and try thinking about what you're typing for a change, instead of trying to live up to various ideals that you're either not old enough to or not mature enough to understand fully.

Note: Look, I can ignore the modify button, too. I must be a homophobic pr*ck who walks around with a finger up my own ass to make myself feel loved.

Quote from: Spleen on Thu 30/03/2006 03:46:04
And as for the "Bushbummers" comment you made.Ã,  Did you not think about that before typing it?Ã,  You're against gays, which makes you either 1. A fanatically religious f*ckwit with no knowledge of the real world, or 2. A f*ckwit who's listened to his homophobic parents, who are most likely using strong feelings against a type of person to cover the fact that they're attracted to them, but not confident enough in there own sexuality to say so.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the real world, besides what they themselves have experienced?

Experienced, or at the very least researched, no matter how effortlessly?  Has yodaman even held a conversation with a gay person?

yodaman.. If it weren't for your unexplainable lack of politeness toward anyone in this forum, I would be okay with you.

I looked at your art, read your little indy thing, and overall gave you a chance.

You haven't proved anything to me.

I'm not going to make fun of you or ridicule you. I just want to say that you are not as great as you may think you are. You can rationalize why your game can be as craptacular as possible, but in the end you know it's because you just can't or won't try hard enough to accomplish anything physicially decent.

It's up to you to do the best you can. Don't make excuses for poor work. Admit you failed, and try again. When someone says your work sucks, don't take it as an attack. Take it as an outside opinion that you need to try harder.

And learn some respect, young man. You won't get any respect in return if you can't tolerate those around you.

I'm just mad at everyone because EVERYONE hates my art. Well, I guess most people just see things on the outside. Its the storyline that counts. If you made a game that had XBOX 360-ish graphics, but the storyline was worse than, say, DOOM (the movie), than it wouldn't be that good, would it?

yes but what if the storyline and overall gameplay WAS good?

(e.g. halflife 2 and oblivion)

besides, you seem to be saying that all 3d games suck which is basically the same thing.

No, I never said that. It's just that most 3d games are some stupid FPS that has NO storyline and is shooting the whole time. Racing games are fun. I like hack 'n' slash quite a bit, especially the Lord of the rings ones, I like the 3d platformers like Jak and Daxter and Racthet Clank. See? I named quite a few there. I don't OWN a console system (except gameboy) so I don't play them too much. I'm an oldschool gamer. And Spleen, I didn't even know what a ****bummer is- I've never even heard the damned word. I don't fall uder either of those categories of people you mentioned. I support Bush, and I'm not a f*ckwit.

....Bushbumming was not yodaman....I think it was lo_res_man? I'm too lazy to check. But not too lazy to tell you.


Yeah...yodaman...no one hates you. Make your game. How "oldschool" are you?

Nope...it was Hammerite!

i agree that there are a lot of stupid dumbass fpses (Doom 3 was a right bore) but Half Life and its sequel are fantastic with decent storylines, Deus Ex is an RPG-FPS like Morrowind and its even better sequel, Oblivion.
and yeh carry on with your game and practice your artwork (try lots of different programs and see which is best)

I fully made one game- I'm just trying to find a host for it. That game is okay- not many puzzles, good storyline, 1989-style characters, bad backgrounds. I'm doing a remake after it's released though.

Quote from: yodaman11111 on Wed 29/03/2006 18:50:32
And about all that homosexual stuff: Being politically correct is monkey crap. That means that you accept everything as ok. I guess you think terrorists, thieves, rapers, druggies, and other lowlifes are ok, then, rightÃ, 

Terrorists, thieves, rapers, and druggies made a decision to do that action which caused the label to be put onto themselves. Being gay is not a choice, but a sexual orientation that is natural. I could theoretically become a rapist or a thief, by raping or stealing, natch. But if I made love to a man I'd feel disgusted about it and need counselling for the rest of my life, and therefore still wouldn't actually be gay, as I wouldn't have liked it. Likewise, a gay man could never touch another man, but still be gay if he fancies some of them. We clear?

Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 30/03/2006 17:31:20
I'd feel disgusted about it and need counselling for the rest of my life, and therefore still wouldn't actually be gay

(http://kafkaskoffee.com/junk/ManicMattIndeed.jpg)

OH REALLY!

Looking at his expression, he is clearly disgusted by the posters he hung on his wall (maybe even seeks therapy about them) thus he still is not gay.

this may open a can of worms but... on the homosexuality issue, ManicMatt says sexual orientation is natural, and therefore ok. BUT, what about pedophiles? Having sex with children is their sexual orintation. BUT BY YOUR ARGUMENT, that's ok. It's their sexual orientation, right?

Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 30/03/2006 17:31:20
We clear?

No not real...

Care to further your explanations please?

I'm really really enjoying this thread.

Well done yoda!!!!!1

Tell you what? Make the game and prove to all the idiots here (I don't think that anybody's an idiot, but just for the shake of this sentence) that it's worth something. Furthermore if you do finish it, you'll have more games completed than me (who am 28, and around 8 monhts here). So? you'll probably feel very fine after that! Simple maths really!

My idea of choice goes much further than ManicMatts. Let's say a person says she cannot make up her mind and has to do the option that remains when all other options have been closed (example: To purchase milk or be thirsty). Eventually the shop will close and she will be thirsty. She still made a choice by inaction. I see alcoholism as a choice, as well as homosexuality (they both may abstain entirely). This is merely a matter of choosing the path of least resistance, which in the milk example was to lie on a sofa and wait. For the alcoholic, the easiest path is to drink, for the homosexual, the easiest choice is to like men. Both still have options.

Quotethis may open a can of worms but... on the homosexuality issue, ManicMatt says sexual orientation is natural, and therefore ok. BUT, what about pedophiles? Having sex with children is their sexual orintation. BUT BY YOUR ARGUMENT, that's ok. It's their sexual orientation, right?

Just to clear up this somewhat over-used slippery slope argument.

Homosexuality/heterosexuality is the relationship between two consenting adult partners of the same/opposite gender/s.

Paedophilia involves children.  Children can not consent, thus it is not two consenting adult partners, and there are laws against it to protect those who are vulnerable.

Nature versus nuture.

It's not that clear cut ManicMatt.

Am I the only one that finds it hilarious that a topic entitled BONE would end up being about homosexuality? Oh, sweet irony.

Maybe it goes even further than that. Who knows what subliminal messages Jeff Smith has been feeding you.

[what]Being gay is not a choice, but a sexual orientation that is natural.

Quote

o rly?

this is absoflippinlutely ridiculous. This is supposed to be about a game! I'm changing the subject..... what is everyone's views on, say..... Indiana Jones IV?

Yodaman. The reason people are saying your art is crappy, is essentially because it is crappy. Compared to the art in the commercial Bone games that are out at the minute. What people on the forums don't see is the POINT of remaking a game that was released very recently, to a high standard. I appreciate that you have already finishe a game of your own creation and I wish you the best of luck with it, but it seems like a step bakcwards to begin work on a poor remake. Thats normally a "first project", the idea that most people join the community with, only to learn its a bad idea. At the moment, your art isnt up to a reasonable standard to do justice to the Bone series, but with practice, it could be. Not everyone hates your art, but it seems rushed. I suggest you take a little bit longer thinking up an original plot of your own, spend a VERY long time on the art, as you have potential, and then you'll produce a great game, I'm sure.

Don't waste your time on this Bone game. Please.

You couldn't nailed it better, Zooty. same here.

Ditto from this monkey. ;D
Yodaman11111: I know how you feel, when I first read the bone books at my local library, I wanted to make a game too, but I quickly realized (this was before I even knew about the game) that I couldn't do it justice. So practice your art, show us that game you made and, lets go from there.

Shit... I see Bone everywhere, I don't know if I am at CL, GiP or general. I had enough of this. Allow the guy to make the game!!!

If the game is closed by the owner of the copyright, he surrenders before finishing it, or nobody download it, we will laugh of him!!! Mwahahahhhahahahahahhaha!!!

Untill that moment, don't feed the troll!!! You filled almost 10 pages about this stuff!!!

Hope this works and people leaves the guy alone... ^_^ If not, I'd being feeding the troll and falling into hypocrisy...  :)

HAHA very funny photo!

Inaction and action? Lets take Jennifer (Love) Hewitt. I fancy her. I have done nothing about it. Nor will I. I cannot stop fancying her either. There is no choice to be made about whether I will fancy her or not. Same applies with anyone else.

Oh, and did Brian Molko of Placebo choose to look a bit like a girl? No, he didn't! He's bisexual i think. Are you the least bit surprised?

Nuture? How would it be nurtured? Please explain further.

EDIT: *re-reads Farlander's post* Oh, hehe oops! But this is the most interesting thread on AGS right now! (other than Helm's comic competition)

I've read variations of this argument so many times... I don't think it's safe to say that homosexuality is 100% choice or 100% natural tendency, but from my point of view, what a choice is, is the result of the culminative effects that have shaped your character up to that point, so it's really a non-choice ("free will" is something that I don't understand) so even if someone felt that he 'chose' to be gay, I still see it as a deterministic effect. People enjoy thinking of their life as a series of uninfluenced idealistic crossroad-choices, but the truth of the matter is probably quite more complicated, and the only 'choice' you made in any situation would be the only one your distinctive mechanism, all in all, the product of such complicated procedures, would have made. You're just self-aware and along for the ride, rationalizing and going 'oh my!' all the while.

The question is then, if the homosexual tendency occurs early in life or if it's an encouraged and cultivated trait... Here's an approach: Why would homosexuality occur in nature? Is it an error? A cultivated error that human hospitability and the lack of evolutionary culling has allowed to spread? Could be, originally, I don't think that's only it, mainly because it seems sex for a few animals (not just us) has been enjoyable and relaxing from the get go. What reason is there for sex to be enjoyable? Most would say so we would get to mate, but that's simplistic. Sex is a very painful, even violent process for a lot of animals and they still feel the primordial biochemical urge to mate, I'm sure human beings could have been created the same. Sex is fun times, I don't know who to ask on the 'why' of it, but as a stress reliever, it is the main reason we, and other animals that masturbate, have sex that doesn't result in pregnacy or have homosexual sex aren't as easy to brand evolutionarily dead-wood. It's as much a natural byproduct of how the human mechanism works as it is the result of continuous social fortificiation of these programmed effects. For people that narrowly think homosexuality is UNNATURAL, every time you touch your peepee and semen comes out and it's not in a vagina you're being quite unnatural too, then.

We can reach down and touch our penis, though. Touching our penis feels good, though. Anal intercourse and stimulation of the prostate feels good, though. All these things are unnecessary for the procreation of the species. Why, then? Natural design by accident? I don't know, but that preposition seems kinda iffy. What I do know is that human beings will do what they find enjoyable and relaxing and no ten-ton-hammer of morality is going to change that.

That being said, I hate black people, and fags, and most of all, these cats that have no hair on them? Hate them.

(http://www.i-pets.com/blog/hairless_cat.jpg)

Oh but look at him Helm! Here maybe this will help, look how scrotal they appear! I bet that makes them better for you!

Also holy shit Helm, I'm not saying we disagree a lot of the time I'm just saying that:

"Sex is a very painful, even violent process for a lot of animals and they still feel the primordial biochemical urge to mate"

I couldn't be pleased with this sentence more.

Jesus fucking Christ keep that away from me

Maniac, I am not God, if you like to go on with this thread, please do, specially because it's something completelly different to the original topic, and it's freakin'funny!

;D  ;D  ;D

It is just that I am starting to have enough of Bone...

:)

Quote from: Farlander on Thu 30/03/2006 22:57:07
Maniac, I am not God

Your not? Shit! *Demolishes his Farlander worship temple*

Hey waitaminute? Maniac?? First ManicMutt, now ManiacMatt? It's MANIC! Just ask Thomas Vob or ProgzMax!  ;)

Thomas Vob! Thomas Vob! This is so great!

Hot potato! Hot potato!
Don't pick it up! Don't pick it up!
Pass it on! Pass it on!


Ahem...yeah. Again, what was being discussed? What has whether it is choice or natural tendency got to do with anything? Are you saying that if it was found to be 100% choice, it would suddenly become not okay?

Helm, sometimes you type so much b.s. that even I am impressed.  Bravo.

Since I agree with Helm, could you please enlighten me to what B.S. he wrote. Or would you rather dismiss his entire post with a "pithy" one sentence post?

Quote from: Helm on Thu 30/03/2006 22:23:05
Sex is a very painful, even violent process for a lot of animals and they still feel the primordial biochemical urge to mate...

It is for a lot of humans too...

ManicMatt (about inaction/ JLH):
Yes, there are some things you cannot influence. Like your own birth, but everything after that is in your hands.
You can influence your fancying her by self-suggestion to some degree. That is why I believe many stereotypes and alike exist. Most people who live by strict rules or in a black/white world tell themselves things are one way and refuse to accept other views.
Your fancying her might not even be completely your choice, since your view is probably based on a image created by corporations, and if you met her in real life, she could shatter that image. It's like in Enjoy the Silence.
I assume you speak of physical attraction, which is a polished image you see. In a different time with different ideals, you might fancy the image of fat women or those with bug-eyes.
What I am trying to say, your fancies are partly dictated by your surroundings, intentionally fighting against norms will result in different fancies after time. Like all kids start out nice, some end up in jail, while others are model citizens. Genetics have something to do with it as well (according to my knowledge 50% of the people in jail have ADHD) but your enviroment shapes you. You can choose/try to block out outside influences.

Helm:
I don't know much about sex between animals and which species hurt during intercourse so the following is theorizing.
Animal intercourse is violent and nasty to let the best (in strength) individuals reproduce. A strong enough male can force itself on many females (as far as I know, in the most species the males are dominant) and it resembles rape in many cases which can physically hurt humans as well. I'd believe there are very few species (that also are primitive and have a niche which depends on  forementioned strength, example hunting species) whose intercourse is always nasty. I'd guess that a pleasant intercourse increases the reproduction of a species and most species are capable of that if there are not enviromental burden factors involved. If mastrurbation had lead to a decrease in reproduction-effiency, we wouldn't have evolved to the top of the food chain. It is not the cause for humans ruling over all species but I don't see it as a hindering factor, it might even be positive.
The only animals whose intercourse I see as especially nasty are spiders where the female eats the male, but I guess those species that have a nasty intercourse do it less often and have more offspring to balance things out.

Regarding choice and free will, we are indeed in space and nothing we ever do will actually matter or last forever so all choices are redundant, pointless. Your actions might be predicted by a supercomputer in the future to 100%, but you will still do things that will only harm you, maybe even actions that you know the result of beforehand. An example from my life: Some years ago when I was supposed to go to school a regular morning (no exams or anything) I began to think about free will on my way there. I decided to turn around and walked in the opposite direction where was absolutely nothing but trees and it was immensely boring. Two hours later, I had walked back and went to class, apologising that I had missed the first lesson. Such illusion of free will is enough to me, even if it might not have been completely spontaneous. As long as you have functioning senses, you can make choices. Even if all choices were dictated beforehand, there were also realistic alternatives (that might be just illusions) that were closed off from you.

A little clarification to the above: I don't mean Helm by saying you, but a general human.

My belief about homosexuality is that it is more a product of enviroment than genetics, although both contribute. It is not a disease or more unnatural than a Mule/Liger, but hopefully we won't live on sperm banks tomorrow (sex between siblings in the intenton to reproduce is though, as it results in a more narrow genetic base).
However, we have conquered evolution and thus I see no problem with homosexuality. It might be that in the future evolution will show itself as a psychological selection.

"we have conquered evolution" huh? sorry to disappoint ya, but from my observations and research, we humans are still pretty much still driven by the same urges and desires we had when we first crawled from the cave. I men what is love, (as in parent-child) but a protection mechanism so that genes will get passed on? what  if a  modern man found out his partner (man or woman) having sex with someone else? He would feel the same emotions he would have if he had been born  45,000 years ago. We 21st century people are SO arrogant, we like to think we have conquered nature, as if  we are so "enlightened"
face the facts, modern civilised man ( and woman) is just thin veneer over top of our beast within. Man is an animal, very smart, but all the more stupid for it.  For all the good and bad that entails.  We are man, Homo Sapiens’s, let us not forget what we are.

QuoteIt is for a lot of humans too...

I'm sorry about that, OSquinky. I can't be sure, but I hope there's people out there for you with whom you'll be able to have sex with minimum discomfort. Or at least with as much discomfort as you'd enjoy.

biothlebop, thank you for the insightful reply. Here are some thoughts on your points.

QuoteAnimal intercourse is violent and nasty to let the best (in strength) individuals reproduce. A strong enough male can force itself on many females (as far as I know, in the most species the males are dominant) and it resembles rape in many cases which can physically hurt humans as well.

The rape thing is irrelevant. I am talking about the biochemically triggered sensations of orgasm being pleasurable, not the way the intercourse went about and if there was forcing or pain involved. So that's out of the way. And also, the 'only the strongest mate' is irrelevant because they do not die from the physical discomfort of mating. The stronger survive against the dangers of nature itself, or from fighting each other to establish an order with the alpha male on top. That's all besides the point. The point was: for a lot of animals, reproducing itself, hurts like a bitch. And they still do it, they're still biochemically driven to do it. Keeping that in mind, the why human beings enjoy sex question is a very interesting one. Why do women have the ability to orgasm? Is it an evolutionary left-over (remember, humans are comparatively a young species that still evolves) from the copying of the male biological structure? Why does the stimulation of the nerve endings in the anus produce a pleasurable result for both genders? There's a lot of food for thought there if you like tossing salads.

QuoteThe only animals whose intercourse I see as especially nasty are spiders where the female eats the male, but I guess those species that have a nasty intercourse do it less often and have more offspring to balance things out.

There's a lot of obvious other stuff. When a dog ejaculates, it's penis bloats in order to be kept inside the female dog's genitals to ensure fertilization (that's right, this is my opening line at parties when I meet new girls). This, as I've noticed, seems to cause the female great discomfort, and the male isn't exactly happy its very sensitive member is now caught in a struggling trap. Cats don't enjoy the whole deal either. There's so many examples. But then there's the masturbating gorilla or kangoroo or other mammal that gets off to relax. And then there's humans. It's complicated.

QuoteRegarding choice and free will, we are indeed in space and nothing we ever do will actually matter or last forever so all choices are redundant, pointless. Your actions might be predicted by a supercomputer in the future to 100%, but you will still do things that will only harm you, maybe even actions that you know the result of beforehand [...] Such illusion of free will is enough to me, even if it might not have been completely spontaneous. As long as you have functioning senses, you can make choices. Even if all choices were dictated beforehand, there were also realistic alternatives (that might be just illusions) that were closed off from you.

This is such a big subject to touch upon in passing. I'll just say that yes, the illusion of free will is useful and we all operate under it, whether it's 'enough for you' or 'enough for me' is irrelevant. Sorry to say irrelevant this, irrelevant that, but I'm trying to keep this relatively on topic. The topic being, yodaman's Bone game. My big issue is one with terminology, not what actually goes on. We all make our choices. My issue is with explaining to people that they're not choices, but 'choices'. This is more important that it might initially seem, because there's a lot of over-the-top moralizing that rests strictly on the presuposition that the human animal can make pure, uninhibited choices against some abstract ethical status which has nothing to do with his collected experience and genetic makeup. I believe morality is as well dictated by genetic memory and the complex factors that interface to create a human being, and that every choice, whereas there's theoretical alternatives, was the definite one because we can never go back and 'choose differently'. We entertain theoretical notions about 'what ifs...' because of regret and pain caused by a tried method of approach, and that's where this illusion of free will first manifests itself. In regret and pain. This tells me a lot about myself, I don't know about you.

QuoteA little clarification to the above: I don't mean Helm by saying you, but a general human.

No worries, I understand you. When I say you however, I mean a gay fag. Clear on that, right?

QuoteHowever, we have conquered evolution

I don't understand what that means. Do you mean conquered our atavistic instinctive directives? If so, HAHA If you mean that due to technological advances we may have halted our actual physiological evolutionary progress since a lot of weaklings get to survive and spread their genes, I think this is not completely incorrect, but misleading because we will evolve in other ways (mentally) to create new pecking orders, new plasmatic fields in which to excell and be the alpha male. Life feeds on life if there's anything looking at nature has taught us, and the antagonism of the shelfish gene will not be stopped because we now ride in cars instead of ineffectually trying to run away from the rhino.

Progz: I am not trying to impress you. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense to you, but please don't discount my point of view as fancy streams of terms ment to confuse or impress.

Quotewhat is love

baby don't hurt me

First, to lo_res_man and Helm about the "conquered evolution thing":
I agree that it's not entirely true in the way that we would have conquered evolution. After all, before we can eliminate sex entirely and mess with cloning, start massproducing people artificially, it will always be in there. Maybe even after that. What I meant was that even homosexuals can have offspring of their own by insemination, people do not die from the same causes as a hunded years ago etc. Evolution has lead to us finding these tools, so it is always present.

Helm:
This applies at least to the paragraph below my first quote in your post: I understand now better what you were aiming for, sometimes fancy words (like atavistic in the recent post) or train-of-thoughts confuse me so I wandered off. I apologize for those times you found my points irrelevant or at the side of the topic. Keeping this relatively on topic however seems like a lost cause.

About animals having sex although it hurts:
For example, I think of kids who eat so much candy they throw up or get sick. It might be partly a lack of experience and the sudden sensation of sickness comes so soon that it overwhelmes them. Many animals have a short memory (goldfish as an extreme), and I guess dogs are mostly driven by their instincts like you say. They can be conditioned (pavlov) to not do things, maybe there is a lack of experience/conditioning also, before instincts can be fought.
Not to mention that pain can become pleasure/addiction for at least humans.

The orgasm/anus nerves theory:
It seems quite logical, seeing how similar different genders of fetuses look at early stages of develpment. Maybe it was the simplest way for evolution, and since it proved to be no harm, it stayed.

Cats & Dogs:
I had heard a little about that but completely forgotten about it.

Free will reply (morales of choices):
I wasn't trying to focus on the morality of choices, merely the notion that there are alternatives. Morales are individual, and the right thing differs from person to person. There are some commonly accepted morales however, which have lead us to this state of society, some which I see as good grounds and some not as good.

theoretical choices:
I have had what if's regarding things I have done good as well, but less often. Retrospect is a essential thing in all abstract philsophical thought. When people age, even their thoughts and regrets change. Old people have regrets over things they have left undone (and are often glad that they tried), while younger regret things they did wrong. I do have regrets, but find myself thinking back as well and smiling over things I have done or being glad that I didn't die/end up in a wheelchair all those times I could have.

Gay fag:
yes.

QuoteSince I agree with Helm, could you please enlighten me to what B.S. he wrote. Or would you rather dismiss his entire post with a "pithy" one sentence post?

Yes, and I will conclude with a sentence fragment like.

Quote from: biothlebop on Fri 31/03/2006 01:45:34
Evolution has lead to us finding these tools, so it is always present.

Yes.

QuoteKeeping this relatively on topic however seems like a lost cause.

Why? We two at least seem to be understanding our points of view and noticing where they converge. That's all we can ask from such a discussion, really. Don't expect us to uncover the secrets of the universe here.

QuoteAbout animals having sex although it hurts:
For example, I think of kids who eat so much candy they throw up or get sick. It might be partly a lack of experience and the sudden sensation of sickness comes so soon that it overwhelmes them. Many animals have a short memory (goldfish as an extreme), and I guess dogs are mostly driven by their instincts like you say. They can be conditioned (pavlov) to not do things, maybe there is a lack of experience/conditioning also, before instincts can be fought.

It is interesting to submit, as I understand you're doing, that sex is pleasurable because human beings have longer-lasting memory and therefore might need more incentive than the pure atavistic drive to mate (namely that if feels good). Theoretically, a long-memory human that has had sex, although he really was pumped up for it, if it hurt like hell he might not come back for more no matter how pumped up he gets again, whereas a dog might simply forget... Two problems: Not sure if it's you know, even needed because there's the negative drive in that when you do not mate your biochemistry battles you and you're constantly in variable states of depression and loneliness. Second: memory in even short-memory animals isn't like it is on humans. There's genetic memory that's very long-lasting. If you hit a dog today, it will remember and avoid you for probably many months. But the same dog will forget you in a second if you make no impression it. So sex hurting like hell, it'll probably remember, and still it goes back. The big difference here is self-examination and self-awareness, which the dog is not capable of, and we are. As such, we might paint the memory-stemmed picture in very drastic and stark terms and therefore arrive at some standstill where we will not allow ourselves to have sex again. Humans are great at rationalizing from little information to HUGE, LIVE-DEFINING DECISIONS and so I guess extra care is naturalistically taken to make the prime directives very pleasurable for human beings. So being strong, the leader, mating whenever we like, and in control of our environment are still the best rushes a human being ever will hope to feel.

QuoteNot to mention that pain can become pleasure/addiction for at least humans.

Let's not examine the pathological flipside of this.

QuoteIt seems quite logical, seeing how similar different genders of fetuses look at early stages of develpment. Maybe it was the simplest way for evolution, and since it proved to be no harm, it stayed.

I really don't know. Let's say ok on this and end with this aspect of the conversation.


Free will reply (morales of choices):

QuoteI wasn't trying to focus on the morality of choices, merely the notion that there are alternatives.

Theoretical. In the real time-line, we do what we do and that's all we did. It is in retrospect that we inject the free will illusion to our life. Of course we all think about what we did wrong, or what we could do better. We strive to be the most capable, after all...

QuoteMorales are individual, and the right thing differs from person to person. There are some commonly accepted morales however, which have lead us to this state of society, some which I see as good grounds and some not as good.

I love how you make meta-ethical perscriptive moral judgements on morality itself.  "some commonly accepted morals, I find good, some others not". Excellent. And useless.

QuoteGay fag:
yes.

So uh, what are you doing this saturday night?

Uncovering the secrets of the universe:
Seeing that this started out as a game production thread we are quite far off but I am not either trying to discuss every philosophical dilemma in one session, just see where this goes. This is however the first argumentative internet discussion I have participated in that hasn't become like that special olympics picture, and I am enjoying it.

continuation on animals:
We had a dog that tore our garbage bags and ran away with the contents around the house. It kept doing it, although it was fed and it was scolded about it. The advantages must have outweighed the drawbacks in both cases.
I liked the last lines of the paragraph best. I agree that simple/primal things give the greatest joy in life, as does security which can come from belief or the people surrounding oneself.

moral judgements on moral itself:
It was indeed vague, mostly because I saw it as a topic that is so individual that arguing about it would more likely lead to flames than intelligent discussion. If you want to know my standpoint, I appreciate some of the ideals in the new testament, the freedom of an individual to the point that he doesn't hurt others by his actions bla bla. Sadly these and most ideals have trouble working out in real life and it could well be that we would have reached some sort of utopia without them.

This saturday:
I will probably travel about six hours tomorrow to be with my grandfather (and family), it seems he has fallen really ill and will probably die. Anyway, I will be spending the weekend with my family and relatives.

I'm still a little drunk this morning (mad, mad, insane fun at a teachers party last night/this morning), so I'm afraid I didn't read everything people have written, but...

I am bisexual, and I have been my whole life. I grew up in no way steered one way or the other, or with any gay influences as far as I can remember. I didn't even know what gay or bi -was- when I first started having attractions to boys and girls. I soon realised the girl bit was rather taboo but thankfully when I grew up I realised it was okay and now I'm very happy.

I don't care what theories people have about it. It's the way I am, it's the way I've been my whole life, and I never chose it, but I like it.

I know it's not that clear cut for a lot of people. I think there are many people out there who are in more of a gray area but I know that for me and hundreds of thousands of other people, it's very clear cut and natural like that.

The end.

P.S. Dunno about males but sex for female cats is AWFUL! I'm glad I have two female house cats who will never experience it.

Quote from: biothlebop on Fri 31/03/2006 02:42:09This is however the first argumentative internet discussion I have participated in that hasn't become like that special olympics picture, and I am enjoying it.

I agree and also I enjoy how a discussion (although granted, between people who aren't you know, exactly locked in fierce opposition, here) can go fine like this on the interenet because we've been as usual, hearing a lot of 'nobody listens to anybody on the internet! Nobody changes their mind! These discussions are useless, lol!'. As soon as you touch sexuality, politics and religion there's a lot of people that just give up on the conversation having any meaning, and I understand why, more or less. But they adopt a superior cynical stance, and it's irritating. Nice to prove them wrong once in a while.

Which doesn't go to say that we've unearthed any grand truth about anything here, or in fact that any of our claims are valid or more valid than anyone else's. But that we are not trying to metaphorically club each other to death as soon as the penis is brought up is good.

QuoteWe had a dog that tore our garbage bags and ran away with the contents around the house. It kept doing it, although it was fed and it was scolded about it. The advantages must have outweighed the drawbacks in both cases.

Although that animal might have been malfunctioning, yes, I do understand what you're saying. Apparently the call for the bags was irresistable.

QuoteI liked the last lines of the paragraph best. I agree that simple/primal things give the greatest joy in life, as does security which can come from belief or the people surrounding oneself.

A human being will never feel fully secure though, because unlike an animal for which security means as far as eyeshot and earshot goes, things being calm, human beings understand the world in abstracted terms and there's the theoretical everything else ouside of our immediate surroundings, constantly scaring us. This I believe has been the biggest call for constant technological progress, the abstractified need for security and control. That's I think, the urge that pushes us onward and outward, in our nietzcheian course to feed on everything, to crush with our weight all other life. Even the metaphysical understanding of the world can be viewed from the spectrum. A philosopher-man that codifies, maps and categorizes reality neatly so it's more safe and controlled. So that he may feel rewarded for his effort biochemically, and sleep better at night.

I think these rationalizations of reality, as useful as they are (we're partaking in one right now) are however inherently dualistic and incapable of portraying a full picture of the world. We're looking at little bits, neglecting the whole constantly. And since everything influences everything, our understanding of the whole reality model is always doomed to be hilariously simplified and incomplete.

But all this is fun to do!

I don't have anything to say about morality. It's an invented thing that I possess like anyone else but with which I don't feel I have much to do. It is as it is and regardless of HUGE WORDS about how things should be, or miniscule mutterings about how things should be, in the end I'll do what I'll do, as I was taught to do and as I've rationalized I should do. The 'system' in 'morality system' is a lie. We just do as we do, and constantly mutate ethically to meet our needs.

Quotefallen really ill and will probably die.

Oh. I thought you might wanna fuck, but ok.

Kinoko, but! Will you not allow your cats to you know, mess around sexually with a few males, then discard them? Experience points count, lol! Nothing serious, you know, just toying with somebody else's emotions and then expunging any weakling but incandescent flame that might have been kindled in a real, alive, and feeling feline's little heart? Just a sickening, sweeping broad stroke of carelessness that paints one as the truly irresponsible and negligent egotistical being they are. Your cats need that XP, dude, come on. They need to level up.

I don't want them to get a taste for it. If it were children, sure thing. But I don't speak cat so I can't give them any advice or warnings, so it's best to let them live out glorious lives of sleeping, eating, cuddles and playing with toilet paper rolls.

Keep taking me literally all the way to when I set your house on fire.

Like I said, still a little drunk. So... what -were- you talking about then? You'll need to spell it out for me. I was under the impression we were joking about cats.

You know, this isn't what I expected to see when I opened the thread

We are talking about this.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=25516.msg321563#msg321563

Quote from: a horrible personSo yes, I think you are a lucky bastard for the moment. I recommend you do some dirty things with her quickly (experience points count!) and then break up with her. Not meanly, just... tell her you've decided the age gap is too difficult to handle and you want to save further heartbreak for the both of you later.

I desire your demise for this.

For what?

For that.

Sorry, let me rephrase - Huh?

Or, "Why?"

I'm not sure there's any point to spell it out. You'll find out on your own in time anyway.

Okay, well let me see if I'm in the ballpark here.

You're angry at me over some ancient thread on which I made a comical post to some guy about having fun with a pretty girl, after which you, to me, overreacted insanely. Right now, I'm wondering if that's cause you had your heart broken by some girl who had her fun with you during teenage years. Since then, you've made it your mission to be an arse to me, whereas I had no idea why until now, and held no ill-will towards you and still don't except that I'm annoyed that you're so angry at me for something so dumb.

If that's wrong, I'm sorry, you -will- need to spell it out to me. I probably -won't- find out in time, I have no idea what that's even supposed to mean.

EDIT: The comic Unilin posted in that thread is really funny XD I'd forgotten about it.

QuoteYou're angry at me over some ancient thread on which I made a comical post to some guy about having fun with a pretty girl, after which you, to me, overreacted insanely. Right now, I'm wondering if that's cause you had your heart broken by some girl who had her fun with you during teenage years. Since then, you've made it your mission to be an arse to me, whereas I had no idea why until now, and held no ill-will towards you and still don't except that I'm annoyed that you're so angry at me for something so dumb.

Yeah! Only nobody broke my heart (well a lot of people trampled on it but that's life) but I did this 'lol experience!' thing to someone and it was horrible and I regret being like that to another human being so I'm hating myself through you.

But that's not my big problem with you. My big problem with you (and by big I mean pretty small but hey, this is the internet! Let's exaggerate!) is that you post everywhere and most of your posts are either 'lol I know this sounds stupid but I have a right to be stupid, lol!' or just tired interchangable stuff. And you like japanese rpgs. And you're a woman.

Obviously, apology not accepted, I will continue to hate you forever! NNGH!

Dude, I have never said "lol" in any manner but jest or sarcasm. I also capitalize the first letters of the sentences that I write.

That said:  :'(

I think that through all the wonderful things about me, three points stand out above all the rest.

1. My womanliness.
2. My love of Japanese RPGs.
3. My charming, often witty, often deep and meaningful hidden amongst simple and innocent sense of humour.

These are what I put on my resume anyway, but it's really my own personal opinion. I've been told by others that my shoes are usually pretty good, too. Coming in at close 4th would be having all 10 fingers, intact, all covered in skin. Rather proud of that one.

I think it's your own loss if you can't get past your self-hatred through me problem to truly experience my awesomeness :/ I hope we can begin to mend the bridges.

(...by which I mean the metaphorical bridges of friendship. I am implying they were metaphorically burnt, or broken in some way)

Quote from: Helm on Fri 31/03/2006 00:53:09
I'm sorry about that, OSquinky. I can't be sure, but I hope there's people out there for you with whom you'll be able to have sex with minimum discomfort. Or at least with as much discomfort as you'd enjoy.

Well, actually, I wasn't talking about myself specifically. But thanks for the thought!

Quote from: Kinoko on Fri 31/03/2006 03:46:31
I know it's not that clear cut for a lot of people. I think there are many people out there who are in more of a gray area...

Like me, for instance. I was pretty sure I was bi about five years ago, during a period when I got crushes on a couple of my female friends. However, that was until I realised that said crushes were way more emotionally-based than physically-based, and that I'm not really attracted to women's bodies to the same degree as I am to men's bodies. Then again, I sometimes wonder whether my fascination with men's bodies is due to curiosity; I don't have a penis so I ooh and aah at them, whereas I have boobs of my own so I don't see the big fuss about those. A part of me realises that it would feel just as good to have intimate physical with relations with a woman as it would with a man; my body, after all, won't be able to tell the difference.

So what am I, then, you ask? Well, I don't consider myself anything under the "queer" umbrella term, but I don't really consider myself "straight", either. To tell you the truth, I refuse to label my sexuality altogether, because it just isn't as big a part of who I am as it is for most people. Sometimes, I think that life would be a LOT simpler if we all had nothing but smoothness between our legs.

Smoothness:

We'd look better in bathing suits!

It's be more hygienic.

Kinoko:

(http://sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/supergirl.jpg)

OSquinky: I'm sorry for assuming you were talking about yourself. Easy but akward mistake to make.

Helm: (http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/sk771103.jpg)

Kinoko:
(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/takethat.jpg)

Helm:
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/183/linkzelda031le.jpg)

You guys are weird. :P

Kinoko:

(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/kerack.jpg)

*sigh*

See, I offered that Zelda pic as a peace offering, and you keep throwing out that same old tired joke.

(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/misogwallpaper.jpg)

*yawn*

I have nothing to do at all today and yet I have to be at work. I can sit here for hours constantly replying and making you post these stupid pictures.

(http://images.cellosoft.com/netmonkey/ags/25516-1.jpg)

Is Kinoko telling the truth?

In a word
(http://sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/kravenmisog.jpg)

About being able to sit here for hours and reply?

(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/getmisogyny.jpg)

This is serving to remind me of why I have little to no interest in western comic styles. Where are the cute babes?

(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/cross.jpg)

Oh. Right.

(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/Takacard.jpg)

BRAVO!

Bravo! Helm!

This is a well deserved reply (the last one)

Now Kinoko, you may very well SHUT THE F**K UP!  ;D

LOL

Oh noes! if only our GenGen forum moderator wasn't last active one year and 5 days ago! Who will save us? Who? WHO?

(http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/fatsuit.jpg)

That's who!

How cruel you people are. for shame. :-\

Kinoko:  :) I think you spoiled zelda for me now, haha, i'll never be able to play it again without that image in my head :)

Can we all try to deal with the annoying sides of Kinoko without referring to physical abuse? I'm not sure that repeating the concept of beating women will settle anything.

This thread is getting pretty silly, so please keep to the topic or discuss calmly like adults :)
Or it will get locked :(

Thankyou Andail -_-

I am not 'repeating the concept of beating women' because it will settle anything, Petter. That's insulting. I am doing it because in this situation, I find it funny. Other people might not agree with me on it being funny, I know when to give it a rest (as it was in fact resting now) so let's not make this into something it isn't.

I didn't mean to imply that you would actually consider beating a woman to settle an argument, so sorry for the bad phrasing.

However, as for posting a page-full of pictures depicting abuse against women (albeit in a comic book environment) I think you must expect that a moderator might sooner or later intervene, as moderators strive to keep threads on track and free from provokative material.
It's good that you intended to give it a rest (which was hard to tell since not much time has passed) so let's just not mention it.

Uh... right.

Quote
1. Is your post interesting, helpful or funny? If not, don't post it.

Feel free to edit your post ManicMatt, or PM a moderator if you want it removed.

How's that, we let them come out of the kitchen for a while and now they're trying to take control over us? How can they be so ungrateful?
..

I checked in the beginning of this thread and saw that the the initial topic was a classic "I'm making a game" thread with the expected "finish your other projects first"/"not original enough" kind of replies. Then I checked this later and see the topic changed to homosexuality, Finally I come again to see that the topic changed to men beating women. Well done everyone ;D We might as well change the topic to religion now, or else Jesus will smite you.

Quote from: Andail on Fri 31/03/2006 16:06:27
I didn't mean to imply that you would actually consider beating a woman to settle an argument, so sorry for the bad phrasing.

But it's the Greek way!

Quote from: Helm on Fri 31/03/2006 14:59:29so let's not make this into something it isn't.

I just realized how funny this is to say considering what this thread was about and what I pushed it to be about.

Andail, you stepping in as a moderator, I of course understand. I thought you were making a comment as Petter-Andail, not Moderator-Andail, though, my bad.

Quote from: Helm on Sat 01/04/2006 16:59:31
Andail, you stepping in as a moderator, I of course understand. I thought you were making a comment as Petter-Andail, not Moderator-Andail, though, my bad.

Good! It's not easy being both a moderator and a lover friend.

Shut up and kiss me, you fool

I'm telling the goat!

Which one?  ;)