JavaScript

[MillsJROSS]

Over the past year I've been really getting into web development/design. (Mostly because it's my job). In that year I've grown an intense love for all things JavaScript. At first glance it was very familiar to me, being a C++/Java programmer, but when I began to breech its depths, I soon discovered that it was entirely a different beast. It did things I wasn't expected, and worked in ways I was unfamiliar with. This made me uncomfortable.

I was immersed in a language I couldn't articulate very well, and I was surrounded by poorly written code (which I didn't know at the time). It probably didn't help that most of the people who use JavaScript consider it a bastard language, not worth their time or energy. So most of what I was trying to learn from was mangled code just eking out an existence. This made me more uncomfortable.

I don't like feeling uncomfortable, nor do I like coding in something where I'm not exactly sure how everything works. So I took to learning as much about JavaScript as I could. I read several technical books, blogs, forums...wherever I could find information (and then make sure it was valid to this day). I soon began to grow some respect for the language, and then just really began to enjoy programming in it.

The one thing I noticed, when trying to find information, is that most JavaScript articles were published in 2005 (which is right about the time the phrase AJAX was introduced). I find its very difficult to find much of anything after this. There are still a few people blogging, here or there, and I tried it myself (however, I found it difficult to blog when I was the only one reading it).

There's not much point to this other than seeing if anyone else has a passion for JavaScript, and perhaps, finding out some new JS websites.

-MillsJROSS

[ildu]

Wow, a passion for JS? I thought the day would never come...

[deadsuperhero]

I'm currently learning Java. It's sweet.
I used to think Java and JavaScript were the same things, though.

[tube]

I've never felt anything even remotely resembling enjoyment when I've had to resort to JS. Granted, it is pretty much "the way" to make your web app do stuff dynamically, and for some uses it's even quite nice, but mostly I avoid it like the plague. It's rarely worth the frustration, what with all the compatibility issues between browsers and stuff.

I do sometimes use javascript in my web software projects for those nifty sortable lists and gimmicks like that, but I find it extremely hard to feel respect (passion even less) for the language. Granted, it's probably not the language itself that irks me, but the lack of consistency between the various implementations.

Well, okay, I harbour some dislike for Java too for some reason I'm not quite sure about. Especially as I've managed to have minimal contact with the language so far (a couple of courses back in school).

[Stupot]

I was immersed in a language I couldn't articulate very well, and I was surrounded by poorly written... bastard language...

Yeh, I have the same problem with English.

I don't even know what Javascript is...  I'm only vaguely familiar with HTML and CSS.

[Scummbuddy]

Oh, I can easily fess up and mention that I love JavaScript. I use it all the time with my webwork. I hadn't noticed a "stopping" point of 2005, but I just wasn't really looking at that.

JavaScript has saved my butt many o' times.

[MillsJROSS]

It's not so much a stopping point, as there are noticeably more articles dated from 2005. Which is understandable, as AJAX changed the idea of what a web page could do (even though it was possible before the coined phrase).

Browser differences really aren't part of the language. If you're communicating with the DOM, I just use an (up-to-date) library, that handles most of the everyday problems that come up.

I'm attracted to the language itself. Part of the reason being that is more free than most languages I've dealt with. It's dynamic, weakly-typed, and I feel I can customize how my code looks/feels more than I can in many other languages I've dealt with. It's by no means a perfect language, but I don't think there's a language that can make that claim, anyway.

-MillsJROSS

[tube]

Browser differences really aren't part of the language. If you're communicating with the DOM, I just use an (up-to-date) library, that handles most of the everyday problems that come up.

You need an intermediate library to handle the differences in DOM implementations, and still you insist that they're not a problem? These differences are part of the language in the sense that there's no good spec for the browsers to follow. Or maybe there is, but they interpret it differently anyway. In case of MS, they might even have done that intentionally in the past. Let's hope that the ECMAScript 4 spec might do it's part in cleaning up this mess.

I'm attracted to the language itself. Part of the reason being that is more free than most languages I've dealt with. It's dynamic, weakly-typed, and I feel I can customize how my code looks/feels more than I can in many other languages I've dealt with.

Anyone who's ever taken part in a team effort or coded for an open source project would see this "freedom" as a weakness. Personally I prefer stricter style rules (and love Python).

[MillsJROSS]

You need an intermediate library to handle the differences in DOM implementations, and still you insist that they're not a problem?

I don't think I insisted they weren't a problem. They are a problem, but they have little to do with the JavaScript language itself. The functions provided to manipulate the DOM have nothing to do with JavaScript inconsistency but browser inconsistencies. It's like if HTML isn't rendered correctly blaming it on HTML, rather than the browser.

That said, there are many languages that I use libraries for...I'm not really sure how this makes them less of a language. I don't want to deal with browser problems, so I use a library that handles things for me. Just like I don't want to handle character arrays, so I have a handy library that abstracts everything into handy strings in C++. That said, I have a deep understanding of character strings and browser bugs.

Anyone who's ever taken part in a team effort or coded for an open source project would see this "freedom" as a weakness. Personally I prefer stricter style rules (and love Python).

Anyone? Really? That's a fairly big blanket statement. I'm assuming any team your working on is defining internal standards. As long as your adhering to some guide or process, I don't really see the problem here. My team, or just me, can decide how we want our code to look, and form our own consistent style.

I haven't programmed in Python, and so haven't really developed any feelings for it, but it's on my list of things to do. And, I too, might come to love that language, but right now I'm just appreciating JavaScript, and I enjoy some of the freedom of expression it allows me to do.

-Justin

[tube]

<quote>You need an intermediate library to handle the differences in DOM implementations, and still you insist that they're not a problem?</quote>

I don't think I insisted they weren't a problem. They are a problem, but they have little to do with the JavaScript language itself. The functions provided to manipulate the DOM have nothing to do with JavaScript inconsistency but browser inconsistencies. It's like if HTML isn't rendered correctly blaming it on HTML, rather than the browser.

Of course you're right, just like I said in my first post in this thread:
"Granted, it's probably not the language itself that irks me, but the lack of consistency between the various implementations."

And I do think HTML (don't know about the upcoming HTML5) is a bad standard. XHTML is much better. My point is, regardless of the culprit, those browser bugs make you do work that you shouldn't need to do, thus making the use of the language or markup more cumbersome than it should be.

<quote>Anyone who's ever taken part in a team effort or coded for an open source project would see this "freedom" as a weakness. Personally I prefer stricter style rules (and love Python).</quote>

Anyone? Really? That's a fairly big blanket statement. I'm assuming any team your working on is defining internal standards. As long as your adhering to some guide or process, I don't really see the problem here. My team, or just me, can decide how we want our code to look, and form our own consistent style.

That's fine, as long as you consider the poor guy who might need to read/understand/modify your code in the future. That's especially a concern in open source projects. What's clear to some is just weird to others.

I haven't programmed in Python, and so haven't really developed any feelings for it, but it's on my list of things to do. And, I too, might come to love that language, but right now I'm just appreciating JavaScript, and I enjoy some of the freedom of expression it allows me to do.

I can appreciate that, and hope you'll have as much fun with Python as I do.