Running 2 Operating Systems on same machine?

[Timosity]

I'm just about to get a new 120GB HD and I want to install Win98 SE & XP so I can choose which one I want to boot at startup.

I remember about 5 years ago I had Win 98 & some version of Linux, and I sort of remember how I did it.

I'm not sure if this is the order I did this in,  and that's where I'll need some help and some suggestions of some programs to do it.

1) I had Win98 installed and I ran a program called "Partition Magic"

2) I then installed Linux on the new partition (not sure of the size)

3) I then ran a program called "Boot Magic" which gave me the option to choose between win98 & Linux

Now it's quite possible that you run the Boot Magic first, but I don't think so


Now I'm sure I've heard of some people doing something like this with win98 SE & XP, so I hope it can be done.

Now Also can you access files from the hard drive using either of the operating systems?

It gets me a bit confused, just for example, just say you install a program while in XP, and then you try to run it while in 98, files get stored in diferent places in both windows versions, therefore you could run into problems.


Are there any good programs out there to do this?

As I mentioned, "Partition Magic" & "Boot Magic" the versions I have are probably really outdated, I guess they still exist, I'll have to get out google, but are there any that people have used and can recommend some good programs (I have no idea if they are free or you have to buy them but any suggestions are fine)

I hope someone comes through for me, thanks for reading

~Tim

[BOYD1981]

if you're going to dualboot anything with XP, be sure to install XP first, a friend of mine tried dualbooting linux and xp, he installed linux first then xp did something to the boot section of the hard disk and completely messed it up, but then he might have done something wrong and that might not be the case...
i've always been scared of partitions ever since i made one then accidentally got rid of it and lost all my data...

[Toefur]

Dual booting XP and '98 is easy as, and what version of PartitionMagick you have doesn't matter - as long as it partitions your drive, it doesn't matter.

You wont need bootmagic, either.

Install Windows 98. Easy.
Insert XP CD.

From here, you can begin the installation from '98, or by booting from the CD itself. All you need to do is tell it that you want a new installation on one of the other drives, instead of upgrading 98.

It'll install.

From there it will create it's own menu that loads when you turn your computer on, giving you the option of which version to run.

As for accessing files: Windows XP will be able to access all the files.

Windows 98 wont be able to access files on the XP drive -if- you format it with an NTFS partition. You -can- format your XP drive with FAT32, which will enable 98 to access that drive.

As for programs themselves - generally they will intertwine themselves with that operation system, so generally a program will only run with the OS it was installed on. There are a few exceptions to this, however.

[Timosity]

Thanks for the info Toefur,

so does it matter what OS is installed first? as you say 98 first, and Boyd recommended installing XP first.

I'm guessing that if you install XP first, it musn't allow you to install an older version? is that the reason?


This is the drive I'm getting

Maxtor 120GB 7200 RPM DiamondMax® Plus 9 SATA HD

I've never used a HD that doesn't use the IDE slot, but I'm sure that won't make any difference (except better performance)


should you partition the drive to certain sizes before you even start to install an operating system? I've done it before using FDisk, but I'm usually not to fond of partitions but if I ever want to do a defrag, fucked if I'm gonna wait for it to finish a 120GB drive.

so how big should the partitions be for each operating system? I'll probably divide the rest in half to have seperate drives for things in each system.

or do I just have 2 partitions and the OS's just sit in one each with the rest of the space available for whatever else?

I'm just planning ahead at the moment as I haven't got the drive yet.


EDIT:
I just had another thought, I'm not sure if the motherboard I have is compatible with win98, It's fairly modern with built-in stuff like sound card and other features. It may be possible, I guess I can only try, I can experiment with the new HD & if anything goes wrong I guess I can just format and start over (unless I can do some damage by trying to install 98, but I doubt it)

[LGM]

Well.. If you have two HDs, XP should go on the 120 and Win98(SE, I hope) should go on the one you're using now. It's stupid to partition a drive when you have two HDs. Unless you want 3 OSes..

And as far as the MoBo goes, almost all hardware is still made to support 98/2000/ME. Most of them just say "Designed for XP" cause computer illiterate people freak out about those kinds of things.

[juncmodule]

I'm not sure if there is a specific one that you are "forced" to install first. Boyd was talking about XP/Linux dual boot and since Linux needs two partitions I'm sure that caused problems. I would follow Toefur's advice.

Oh, and LGM is right too, you aren't "forced" to partition either if you have two drives. I have a removable HD one with 98 one with XP (those are cheap now!)

Also, if you do partition, don't use that partition magic crap. You are more likely to screw something up that way. FDISK is just fine, and too easy to use to screw anything up. Just make sure you only make the two partitions and that they are the right size. If you mess up, or think you messed up redo it before exiting the program. I'm about 99% positive nothing happens until you exit.

I have always done 98 first and XP second. Just be careful and read everything on the screen. Remember, if you screw up, just reformat it, repartition it, and do it right. Nothing is going to get broken by FDISKing and Formating.

good luck,
-junc

[LGM]

Fdisk won't support NTFS, which is my big beef. If it did, I would be partitioning day and night.

Stupid Partition Magic fucks up your partition tables.

[juncmodule]

OH, and that's the other thing! If you want to have access to files between OS's DON'T format for NTFS when installing XP!

Also, LGM, doesn't XP take care of that during install? Formatting it's own partition to NTFS? I might be wrong...

Oh, and Timosity, forgive me if you know this, but it sounds like you might be new to this so I will explain it:

NTFS is a SUPER stable file system. Excellent to work with. I have heard of a lot of people having compatibility problems with software that may or may not be tied to NTFS. If you use a lot of older programs you "MIGHT" run into problems (that's a pretty big might, I think it's anti-NTFS propaganda).

FAT32 is a not so super stable. BUT, Win98 can only read FAT32, not NTFS. I might be wrong but I think XP can read FAT32. So, keep that in mind when XP gives you the option to format to NTFS.

EDIT: My personal opinion: Format for FAT, not NTFS. I know that NTFS is better, but, XP is soooo stable. I very, very rarely have any sort of crash on my (P)FAT XP installation. :

later,
-me

[LGM]

I mean, using FDisk to modify already NTFS formatted partitions. It won't even load if it detects NTFS.

[Timosity]

I was going to keep the drive I have at the moment as a back up for my files etc, at the moment I have a 3GB drive I plug in through the firewire port, I was going to use the 40GB I have now for that function and keeping the 3GB as a second backup (I back up to another computer and CD's aswell)


If I keep them both as seperate internal drives and install win98 SE on the 40GB & XP Professional on the 120GB, how do I choose which one to boot?

Would I go into the bios and choose which drive I want to boot from, or is there another method.

Also I can only upgrade from win2000 to XP, cause it's an upgrade not a self bootable copy.

and I wasn't aware of this NTFS, I always thought it still used FAT32 (if I've upgraded from 2000 to XP would it still be FAT32?)


I guess I can still use the drive with 98 on it to back up my AGS and other important things, I mainly want to have 98 so I can play some older games and use some functions that XP wont allow (and I can play most of them on XP with all sorts of progs Like VMDsound, Dosbox, ScummVM etc, but there are still a few that cant work properly, even if they load and work for a while [others like SQ6 have no chance with XP])

Thanks for the ideas guys, and I probably won't need to partition anymore, but I might just for the Defrag, and Full Scandisk time. I could always devote a partition to everything to do with AGS.

[Lazy Z]

Whenever you want to have two versions of windows, it's always better to install the oldest one first. Trust me on this.

I don't really remember the specifics, but I had Win98, and then installed XP Pro on a different partition. When installing XP, I chose to keep my old OS (that would be 98), and then XP created its own boot menu, allowing me to choose between 98 and XP.

Doesnt' Win2000 use NTFS anyway?

[Timosity]

Whenever you want to have two versions of windows, it's always better to install the oldest one first. Trust me on this.

I don't really remember the specifics, but I had Win98, and then installed XP Pro on a different partition. When installing XP, I chose to keep my old OS (that would be 98), and then XP created its own boot menu, allowing me to choose between 98 and XP.

Doesnt' Win2000 use NTFS anyway?

It might, but I sort of skipped from 98 to XP but I have 2000 professional and an XP upgrade. I never used 2000 so I'm not up to date with file systems.


So does this sound like the best way.

a) Install 98 on the 40GB HD

b) then insert the 2000 CD, and choose to install it on the 120GB HD not update over 98

c) then it should automatically have an option on which to boot?

d) then boot up 2000 and install XP over it

e) I also only have an upgrade to 98 SE from 98 so I guess I should do that at some stage too (probably between a & b)

damn this getting all these things in bits and pieces, but once it's all installed, it should be sweet (hopefully)

thanks for the info LazyZ


Edit: my only Dilemma now is that I want to transfer some stuff from the 40GB to the 120GB, I'm pretty good with backing stuff up but I only have 3GB to back stuff up on and anyway, I'm sure I can work out some way,

1) like first copying what I want to the 120 drive,

2) then format the 40 drive and install 98 etc

3) then copy back to the 40GB from the 120

4) then format the 120 and go from there

5) of course I have my important AGS projects backed up in various places as that's the most important stuff I can't afford to lose.

[Ishmael]

That last one sounds like it would work.

I am also thinking of installing 2 OS's, when I get a new laptop. It's most likely going to have XP on it. (I have a copy of XP pro somewhere already, though.) I'm going to install 98 and XP on it, side by side. I don't know how big hdd it's going to have, but let's say it's 80 GB. how big should I make partitions? Any suggestions? I'm going to use 98 for (older) games, AGS and such, and XP probably to surfing the net and stuff like that. Or, does it anyway matter if I format both partitions to FAT?

Sorry for jacking this thead a bit, I just need this one anwser.

[juncmodule]

Timosity, you have way too many HD and way too many upgradeable OS's


Okay, I REALLY don't recommend keeping the stuff you are trying to keep on any of the drives you will eventually format. That is REALLY risky. One screw up in the "copy from one drive to the other" process and it's gone forever. If you can't back it all up on CD another drive or whatever I would seriously consider removing the drive from the case. I've done this in the past because I don't trust myself.


Anyway, your plan sounds good, and yes install 98SE over 98 before adding Win2000. You will be able to install WIN2000 in FAT32, and then XP in FAT32, it will give you an option.


After you install Win2000 it will give you a bootup screen to choose your OS from. Upgrading XP from Win2K gets tricky here. I've never done that, so I assume you will want to select the option to replace 2K, but be careful and make sure it doesn't try to replace 98.


TK: Format both for FAT, Partition the 98 portion with a minimum of 500MB, I would recommend something more like 5GIGS. So long as it isn't less than 500MB you are okay. If you format for FAT you will be able to use the other 75GB from within 98.

later,
-junc

[Ishmael]

I was thinking something like that, but thanks for clearing it.

[LGM]

I don't reccomend running Fat32 on a 120 GB drive. Simply because you'll only be able to use a fourth or less of it's capacity.

Here is the steps I would take:

1.) Back up every single file you don't want lost onto a CD or the removable 3 GB drive.
2.) Format your 40 GB drive, and install 98 freshly.
3.) Put in your 120 GB drive, and install 2000 on it.
4.) Put the XP CD in, reboot, and upgrade 2000 to XP. (Make sure to use NTFS on the 120 GB drive. And make sure you select the right hard drive!)
5.) Set up an internet connection on your XP drive, and upgrade XP to SP1 along with all the other security updates.
6.) Establish internet connection on 98, and update asell.
7.) Install what you need to on 98.
8.) Install what you need to on XP
9.) Transfer everything from your CDs or external 3 GB drive to their designated drives..

Having done this, you will be able to choose your OS at load (this is automatically configured in Windows Setup) And everything should run smoothly for you.

Any other questions, just ask.

Good luck!

[Timosity]

Thanks Junclgmtketc,

My Dad leant me a 10GB drive as well so I have a lucky 13GB to back stuff up on which should be enough for all the stuff I want, which saves screwing around with other backups,

and don't worry I've got pleanty of backed up sources for my essential projects, If I lost all of them at the same time, I'd say it was my lucky day.

I know that XP installs over 2000 pretty well as that's how I'm using this computer right now.

I'll post back when I have it all setup, which will probably be within next week, to see how it all works, and maybe even explain what I did, If that helps anyone else that wants to try it.

[LGM]

Where's my "thank you"? Did my steps help at all?

[juncmodule]

Junclgmtketc,

[LGM]

OHhh.. Well.. I just read juncmodule and went on about my business