The Chronicles of Narnia

[Paper Carnival]

My last question is this, and I'm not trying to start a big argument, and I'm sorry ahead of time if this offends anyone, but I'm sincerely asking because it's something I've been wondering about.... Why is that a book or movie like Chronicles of Narnia, or LoTR for that matter, which is full of magic (a wardrobe that takes you to another world, a witch that can turn things to stone, talking animals and the like) is ok according to Christians, but Harry Potter is looked as evil because of magic?Ã, 

I don't know. I'm a Christian, I love the Harry Potter books and I've been asking people about this but never got a satisfying answer. The main arguments are that the Harry Potter books led kids into trying to practise real magic (that's what they say.. I don't know about facts) or that it takes place in our own world, only the magic is practised in our unawareness. Which is different than LotR or Narnia because they take place in different worlds. Basically they are trying to say that Harry Potter is written in such a way that promotes and glorifies witchcraft and makes it believable (unlike LotR and Narnia which is pure fantasy).

[Las Naranjas]

Also, I was unaware that all Christians followed the same actions of condemning one film and liking another.

[esper]

Almost all do. I could answer your question, Potch, but many Christians would be very upset with me. However, I might tend to use the word "bandwagon" and "morons" quite frequently, along with the phrase "think for one's own self."

Harry Potter does contain much more un-fantastical magic than LotR or CoN:LWW. Although many spells are just saying some dumb word ("redikulus!" or whatnot) it does contain quite a bit of real magic. The hand of glory, for one, is an occult charm made from the severed hand of a robber that, I think, is supposed to help ward off future thieves. Nikolas Flamel was a real alchemist, and he was trying to discover the real philosopher's stone. If you look in the clock tower of the Prisoner of Azkaban movie, you will see a real occult tool being used in place of the clock.

I have actually heard Christians rant and rave about Tolkien and Lewis (if they're really Christians, they shouldn't be writing stories about this type of thing!) and give young, impressionable minds the hoo-haw about it, who then go on to be the next generation of morons. I think the ultimate solution here is to THINK FOR YOURSELF instead of jumping on bandwagons. Tolkien and Lewis need to be left alone... but then again, so does J.K. Rowling. Her stories aren't popular because every little boy and girl wants to grow up to worship... ::cue echo:: SATAN!!!!!!! Rather, her stories present a young boy whose life sucks every ass having a rare opportunity to better himself and make something of his life that it couldn't have been in the real world. It's all about escapism.

I just ran out of things to say, so I'll conclude with this. I liked the Narnia movie. Hell, I remember someone (was it Squinky? I'm too lazy to look back) say something about how it didn't transport them to some magical childhood place... Well, I feel lame saying this, but it did for me, and I was crying just about through the whole friggin' movie. Just like in LOTR, when I first saw Hobbiton... I'm man enough to not be ashamed by that. It just so happens someone next to me saw me and started laughing, so I ripped his arms off and beat him to death witht them, and then for the benefit of the rest of the audience I ate his corpse.

[Paper Carnival]

Also, I was unaware that all Christians followed the same actions of condemning one film and liking another.

What's that for? As I said, not all Christians hate Harry Potter, I know a lot who just enjoy the story. There are as many Christian mindsets as there are Christians in this world, it's just that some mindsets are closer to each other.

What esper said is right, when I read the books I don't care about the magic. And the books do teach a lot of values like morality and friendship. But no, it has to be evil because some dumb kids decided to become a wizard by reading the book. I tell them that according to this logic the Bible is evil too, because some dumb people decided to go kill other people by reading it. Flamed, I was.

Anyway, back to Narnia. Watching Narnia was very different than watching any fantasy film, because I already knew that it's going to have intentional Christian symbolism. I love symbolism in things so maybe that's why I liked it so much. It also somehow helped me ignore the lameness and childishness (is that a word?) of a many scenes, because I could see their symbolic meaning.

[Potch]

Thanks those of you who responded.  You all made some good points.  I hope I didn't offend anyone with my question.

My personal view on it all is this... It's fiction.  Plain and simple.  If you don't believe in magic and you don't want your kids to try to do it, you teach them not to.  You don't go banning the books and burning them.   I had a supervisor that was very religious, and actually put a Harry Potter ban on the rest of us.  We were not allowed to discuss anything about it in the office, because it offended her.  It was right after book five had come out and we were all reading it.  From what I've heard from the other girls, she is now going on and on about Narnia and how wonderful it is.  She talks about it non-stop.  That was pretty much why the question comes up for me.  I realize that not all Christians are like that, but there are some that are, and it was bugging me.

And hey... there were several moments that made me cry in the Narnia movie as well!

[Nikolas]

Ok, I finally saw NARNIA. (and I think that it has the biggest title of a movie ever!)

I enjoyed it thoroughly, the whole 150 minutes (?) and I never regreted the ticket I paid. IT was lovely.

The CGI was fantastic, and as it should be. The actors where a bunch of kids so no problem there too, the music was very good, with choir and all, and it was child oriented (no blood, no detail in battle, no real monster or something like LOTR had...).

Perfect!

As for Harry Poter and the rest, I agree with esper (as always... ah....). Narnia seems like a fairy tale really. LOTR the same, a little mythological book with a dozen of different mythologies cramed into one. Harry Poter was much more serious in the magik part. (<- I like spelling it magik and not magic...)

[Potch]

There may be a few things in HP that are more realistic magic-wise, but it has creatures like elves, dragons, gryffins, centaurs, mermaids, goblins, gnomes, grindylows, blast-ended screwts, leprechauns, unicorns, werewolves.... things that are all pretty mythological.  There's things like invisibility cloaks, magic maps, flying broomsticks, self-writing ink pens, chess boards that move on their own, food that appears with the wave of a hand, candy that makes your tongue ten-tons....  It seems that there is a lot more in the stories that is not real than what is. 

Sorry to go off-topic.

Longest movie title ever.... "Don't Be A Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood" :-)

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

I think that you have gotten the difference between fairy tales and mythology entirely wrong here.  Just because the book envolves creatures taken from myths, that doesn't make it based off of it.  Fairy tales tend to be more whimsical, a bit more lighthearted, and imo, more built towards kids.  Every fairy tale at one time could have been a myth, but changed by modernisation.  Mythology is alot more serious.  Just because the creatures are taken from mythology, that doesn't mean the story has all of the mythological traits to it.

BTW:  This is off topic to the topic that's already off topic... strange, huh?

[Las Naranjas]

Also, I was unaware that all Christians followed the same actions of condemning one film and liking another.

What's that for? As I said, not all Christians hate Harry Potter, I know a lot who just enjoy the story. There are as many Christian mindsets as there are Christians in this world, it's just that some mindsets are closer to each other.

Um, maybe I was supporting your argument. Or maybe you want to disagree with me. I thought my point was fairly clear that Christians aren't a homogenous group. Try understanding before you bite my head of for supporting you.

[Snarky]

Actually, I think the point to understand about the fringe Christian groups who really hate Harry Potter etc. while they praise Narnia and the like is that they do believe in magic.

They believe that Satan is real, and has real power, and that by worshipping the devil, his followers are granted magic powers. That's what a witch or sorcerer is, to them. "Suffer not a witch to live" and all that. When Harry Potter and all the other fantasy kids use sorcery and witchcraft, they see it as the devil's magic, even if it isn't explicitly stated in the movies or books (or even if it's actually inconsistent with the explanation given in the stories).

At the same time, they believe of course that God and His followers have supernatural powers. Angels, Prophets and others can do things not possible for ordinary people, and God can cause miracles to happen. As long as supernatural events are attributed to God, angelic forces, or similar holy sources, it's OK. Or if the nature of the forces isn't identified, but is easily consistent with their dogmatic theology, that might get a pass, too. (Harry Potter isn't, but Mary Poppins is.)

Conservative Christians who are considerably less crazy may not believe that witches are abroad today as we speak, but nevertheless worry that magic and things like that are non-Christian (even blasphemous) practices and likely to lead to paganism and heathenry. Since Harry Potter presents them like virtuous, fun, exciting things to do, that's likely to corrupt children. Some (though not all) of the people who hold this view might accept Narnia and similar stories for the same reasons given above.

[LGM]

Yes. Las was pointing out that not all Christians think, act or feel the same way about issues.

It's like saying all black people like fried chicken and watermelon.. Or that fat kids love cake.

I find it offensive to be lumped with the tongue-speaking, covulsing. jesus-exploiting freaks out there who go around pointing fingers at everything "wicked" and condeming half the world to Hell... No, that's not how I roll.

Do I believe in God? Yes.
Do I love Jesus? Yes.
I am a Christian? Yes, though sometimes not a very good one.

But on the other hand:

Do I think the Harry Potter novels are evil and bad for children? No.
Am I going to scream at you and tell you that you'll mate with the hounds of hell when you die an excruciating, sinful death? No.
Do I think I'm asking too many rhetorical questions? Yes!

The bottom line is: any large debate involving mass amounts of people (i.e. religion) never amount to anything. There's way too many exceptions to make any real validity out of the points or counterpoints.

Anyway. I just read that Chronicles of Narnia has passed Kong in box office revenue. Kong hasn't even made half of it's projected income ($300million.) whereas Narnia looks to seal up at about $275million (domestically.) That's rather dissapointing. Kong was clearly the better film, but due to it's length it shut out many prospective viewers.

[Nikolas]

Longest movie title ever.... "Don't Be A Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood" :-)

The chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the wardrobe. 11 words. ...A Menace... 14 words. Ahhhh... you're right!

on to the topic now:

I find that most "groups" of people that share a certain idea (not only religious, but any kind), sometime seem to be onsided in their thinking. Take for example classical musicians: They dispite anything else, so rock/pop/soundtrakcs/electronic/songs are off. The only true music is Beethoven etc... The same goes for people passionate about football. Well... the same applies also for people passionate with religion. It's easy to follow a croud that you share an opinion with most of the times...

[coolkidtitan]

I was so touched by Aslan's choice to "sacrifice" his life that I clenched my fist while his body was still lying on the "table"............ Dunno why they call it a table... looks more like a short flight of stony steps to me... Anyway... I LOVED the movie... please don't make unnecessary negative comments 'bout it... After all... Can't really say anything too bad 'bout it, can ya?

[Paper Carnival]

I'm sorry Las, I thought you said that all Christians are the same. And I wasn't trying to bite your head off, sorry if it sounded that way.

Peace

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

A bit offtopic:

Night of the Day of the Dawn of the Son of the Bride of the Return of the Revenge of the Terror of the Attack of the Evil, Mutant, Alien, Flesh Eating, Hellbound, Zombified Living Dead Part 2: In Shocking 2-D

Night of the Day of the Dawn of the Son of the Bride of the Return of the Revenge of the Terror of the Attack of the Evil, Mutant, Hellbound, Flesh-Eating Subhumanoid Zombified Living Dead, Part 3

14 words rather pale in comparison.

[Potch]

Crap.  You win.  I don't think anybody's gonna beat that.  Ha ha.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Those don't really count as movies since they're just overdubs of NotLD and The Brain That Wouldn't die, but anyway...That's all.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

They have image, they have sound, they have a different story than the films they overdub, they actually got released... I'm not saying they're good, but they certainly have what it takes to be a "movie".

[Radiant]

To see! Definitely. It is totally awesmoe!

[The Book]

I just seen the movie, and let me relate my impressions in two simple words: it's beautiful.

Sorry for digging old threads, I simply had to share it with you.