Christianity VS White Magic (Only for Spiritualist/WhiteMagicians & Christians)

[MashPotato]

No, I wasn't trying to. Mostly I was being a smart-ass, and I apologize if I offended.

But what I do find dangerous about where SilverWizard is going with this is: his discomfort with the belief in or existence of something he doesn't understand because it might conflict with his religion.

Certainly religion is useful as a means to try and lead a moral and ethical life, but using it as an end in itself is where I get uncomfortable. To use his example, if communication with the dead is possible, then there must be some physical explanation for it, whether we call it "magic" or whatever. But are we going to dismiss it outright as "evil" because of a passage in the bible? Sadly, history (heck, current events) suggest that those who cling blindly to religion will do a lot more than just "dismiss" it.

Nah, I wasn't offended, so no need to apologize to me ^_^... I just get a little tired of the religion vs. evolution debate sometimes.
I agree that blindly following doctrine can be dangerous, as that provides a ideal environment for extremist views to develop (though this applies to all ideologies, not just religion).

[Raggit]

I'm utterly lost in the search for things beyond ourselves, such as gods, supernaturals forces, etc.

Personally, I often wonder that, if there were anything out there, why can't we all find it and agree on it?  What's with so many different religions and beliefs?

Have you ever asked for a supernatural force to show itself to you?  I did, once.  I was pretty down and confused, and while walking outside one night, I was like, "Whatever is out there, please show yourself."  Nothing happened. 

Maybe I did it wrong? 

Have any of you ever encountered a supernatural force that you KNEW was indeed supernatural?  How did you contact it?  Or did it contact you?

[Helm]

Maybe I did it wrong?

Yes. Next time say 'Hastur'. Three times.

[lo_res_man]

I think that the supernatural could exist, I just have never really been presented with much convincing evidence of its existence.
I think UFO’s could be something. for example I read in a reputable source  of UFO spotted both visually as well as on radar. now if that’s not something I don't know what is.  Unless both people involved are lying of course.

[MrColossal]

you don't have to be lying to be wrong.

the main problem with mystical and unexplained things are that people think "But I saw it with my own eyes!" and think that their eyes are infallible.

According to your eyes David Copperfield cuts a woman in half. But we know that he really didn't but it LOOKS just like it! "Are you telling me that I'm lying when I say he cut a woman in half?" obviously not. Your eyes and brain decieved you. You can very easily fool your eyes with simple optical illusions.

"for example I read in a reputable source  of UFO spotted both visually as well as on radar"

can I see?

[Raggit]

the main problem with mystical and unexplained things are that people think "But I saw it with my own eyes!" and think that their eyes are infallible.

According to your eyes David Copperfield cuts a woman in half. But we know that he really didn't but it LOOKS just like it! "Are you telling me that I'm lying when I say he cut a woman in half?" obviously not. Your eyes and brain decieved you. You can very easily fool your eyes with simple optical illusions.

Precisely!  I remember learning this lesson early in life, while watching movies with my mother commenting, "That's not REAL blood!"

[lo_res_man]

Yes, it was the 1969 "science of the year" book.  had a big painting of the lunar lander during touchdown on the cover. I am sorry I can't tell you more, but I don't have the book on hand right now, other wise I could tell you the publisher and other pertinent details. Now, remember I mentioned the radar and a person, who had a camera on hand. what I am saying is there is two separate sources of information,  one of the key things needed for some form of truth .one of the witnesses a highly trained professional. I think it does warrant some consideration.

[Nacho]

Signal in a radar = Spaceship crewed by an alien intelligence?

Mmmm...  :

[lo_res_man]

Signal in a radar = Spaceship crewed by an alien intelligence?

Mmmm... :

UFO just means Unidentified Flying Object
if we found out for sure little green men were at the helm, then it wouldn't be a UFO anymore

[Nacho]

Yes... UFO is something in the sky that we don't know what it is. Why do you assume it is crewed by an alien intelligence? You did, hence you mentioned it like something extraordinary. Don't try to change the sense of your posts saying it was an alien object and now denying it.

[Creator]

Any way back to the topic,

I'm a Christian, and I reckon that not beleiving in anything raises mor questions than beleiving in something, eg.
"If there is no God or anything, how was the universe created?"
But then some-one could come back with
"But how was God created?"
Trying to witness to people can be annoying sometimes.

And Raggit, if your reading, God wants you to beleive in Him without seeing (read Hebrews 11:1).

[Vince Twelve]

I reckon that not beleiving in anything raises mor questions than beleiving in something

"Scientific study and reasoning involves more questioning and rational thought than religious devotion."

Also in the news today:

"Excercise requires more work than liposuction."

"Diplomatic and peaceful conflict resolution takes more thought and time than nuclear strikes."

and

"Christianity topics on this forum just go around in circles for days."

[Helm]

It's completely fine to answer 'I don't know' to questions such as "who made the world" or "who made whom who made the world". You don't have to know. Don't be scared, it's okay.

[Creator]

Don't be scared, it's okay.

Are you or are you not teasing me with this cause I don't like people teasing my faith.

[Helm]

You'd do well to forgive me then.

[Oneway]

I've always regarded religions in general to be nothing more then pacifiers (those thing you stick in a babies mouth to keep it from crying. Because of the exact reason creator mentioned a couple of posts above: Not believing raises more questions then believing.

In fact it raises the questions posted by helm, which can be quite daunting and overwhelming, yes even scary. The questions raise an awareness than we are not the protegees of some omnipotent being that will save us in the end. But yet that we are alone in a vast and empty space and that whatever trouble we run into, we'll have to solve it ourselves or quietly hope for it to go away.

So i suppose Helms remark about it being ok to be scared is quite understandable and not directly meant as an insult towards anyones religion. Although with Helm you can never be sure. Those chaotic atheists always have a hidden agenda

[Erenan]

I reckon that not beleiving in anything raises mor questions than beleiving in something

"Scientific study and reasoning involves more questioning and rational thought than religious devotion."

Although this may be true because scientific study and reasoning doesn't exist without questioning, that doesn't mean that religious devotion involves no questioning and rational thought. In fact, it works best when you ask lots of questions and think rationally a lot. Especially if you are studying it, such as by going to seminary or something like that. Anyone who has ever written an exegetical paper on one of Paul's epistles could vouch for this.

You'd do well to forgive me then.

You'd have to apologize first.

[Raggit]

...And Raggit, if your reading, God wants you to beleive in Him without seeing (read Hebrews 11:1).

Why?

[EagerMind]

eagermind: Why do you find it dangerous? I told that i searched both Cristianity and Spiritualism/White Magic. But you know, if someone is Christian, then he can't be at the same time a White mage. And vice-versa. So, if i believe in White Magic, i won't be a Christian any more, because Christianity doesn't believe in White Magic. So simple as that. If there is any physical explanation, then it's ok, but when i talk about White Magic/Spiritualism, i talk about the aspect that they are supernatural activities.

Here's why this is dangerous. Your argument, as best as I can make, goes something like this:

- You're a Christian, and thus believe that Christianity is good.
- White Magic appears to be in conflict with Christianity.
- Therefore, White Magic must actually be a "dark force," which I take to mean as "bad," "evil," or "wrong."

Wow! That was easy! No fanaticism there, but we certainly left the door open. Now let's see what Christianity says about homosexuality, birth control, or Muslims, etc., etc.

Not only is this flawed logic, but have you asked yourself what it means to you personally to be a Christian?

Sure, the church may have an official line on ghosts, magic, the supernatural, etc, but what's the reasoning behind it? Do you agree with it? And what church are you even talking about? One of the countless variations of Protestantism, or the "original" church - and even then you get to choose between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodoxy? Certainly "the church" has no monopoly on what the "right" answer is.

You've been asking people what they think about reconciling Christianity with White Magic. Well, people have either been saying that White Magic is a bunch of baloney (in which case, what's the problem?), or that you need to make your own decision. Religion is (or should be) a deeply personal thing.

So what does it mean to you to be a Christian? An what about White Magic conflicts with that, other than the fact that the church (or even the bible) says it does? And if magic, ghosts, and the supernatural do exist, does it necessarily mean they're evil, or do you need to re-evaluate your faith? Personally, I'd have a hard time subscribing to any interpretation of religion that would require me to perfunctorily label a group of people as being "evil".

[Erenan]

Well, technically Christianity labels everyone as evil until they repent. Except for Jesus.