Christianity VS White Magic (Only for Spiritualist/WhiteMagicians & Christians)

[SilverWizard_OTF]

I am Christian Orthodox, but long time ago, i was searching things (not for learning to do them, i just wanted to learn what they tell and what is their philosophy) that had to do with spitirualism, white magic e.t.c.
Ã,  Now, after some research, i decided that all these Spirits, Astral Projection, Communication with Dead People, White Magic e.t.c. haven't any truth inside them and maybe they are supported by dark forces (black magicians e.t.c.).
Ã,  I do not want to insult anyone, all the above are totally personal beliefs. That's why i posetd this letter, i would like to hear your opinion.

[Nacho]

Magic, communication with death people, moving thigs with the mind, telechinesis and such things are not real... So, more than supported by dark forces, they are supported by swindlers who defraud incautious people. It's specially annoying that they use the sorrow of people who have recently lost a beloved relative to win dirty money. They should all go to jail. Shame on them.

[MrColossal]

http://skepdic.com/

I recommend reading from this site if you want to learn many many things about various "magical/spiritual" things.

I don't think you should be taking the idea of white magic and saying "hmm so this is interesting but wait, I think this is actually DARK magic!" you should be taking the entire concept and saying "Is there any truth to any of this?" and if there is THEN you can go ahead and say "So there's the truth and there's the proof, but what category does it fit into?"

read up on cold reading if you want to learn how people "talk to the dead". You can do it too with no demons involved!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBNp1Y7fiwA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFNKsmwgw8w

also, just for fun, "psychic" Sylvia Browne messing up big time...

When you start thinking critically of things and read into the history of things, even just a little bit, your mind will be opened up wider than you thought. And then you'll be really sad that people regularly pay money to people who say they can talk to the dead, or read your fortune, or talk to god, or heal people or HEAL PEOPLE...

[Becky]

Remember to examine your own spiritual beliefs at the same time as dismissing others.

[SilverWizard_OTF]

MrColossal and Becky, i noticed an anger to your textÃ,  :(Ã,  Well,Ã,  i can't talk for what Nachos has written, as don't know what research he has done. But i think he speaks only about people who tell lies to no-educated people, to "steal" their money.
Ã,  Now, about me, i have done MANY research my fellows, and personally i believe that Christianity is above all these supernatural beliefs. It is only my opinion, i don't want to persuade anyone, and i posted this so to make a dialog, but without fanaticism.
Ã,  Ã, About telepathy and such things are not supernatural, science can offer an explanation. But White Magic and Communication with the Dead, is totally supernatural activity.Ã,  Ã, I can't get it, White Magic from what does it "take power"; Black one takes power from the dark lord, so White Magic should take power from the good one, Jesus. But Jesus dismisses magic. So, i see a contradiction. What is your opinion;

[Erenan]

My guess is that anyone who believes they are practicing white magic either believes in a different supreme good being than Jesus/God. And anyone who calls themself a Christian whilst practicing what they believe is white magic is probably confused.

[Nacho]

My research is that I am studying paranormal activity in amateur degree since I was 14 till 21 or 22, when I lost interest, and... it simply does not exist.

I talk of future telling, telepathy, telechinesy, UFOs, ghosts, Pentagon missiles, and Kubric filming moon landings...

Where is the science you talk about to tell that this supernatural stuff is explained? Please I'd like to consult it. But if you are going to post the link of a book of "People who had a feeling while their beloved being was dying thousand miles away" and crap like that you can save your time.

[SilverWizard_OTF]

My friend have you heard about Uri Geller, who bends spoons? Well, actually i have never seen anyone who has telepathy or telekinisis, but many scientists, even in USA's laboratories, make expariments with people that can sense danger, move with the power of their mind objects e.t.c. I don't know, maybe they tell lies, but the object of this post isn't to talk about telepathy, because even if it exists, science has an explanation (non-supernatural of course) to offer.
  I was refffered to communication with dead and White Magic, because these are things that science can not explain, they are 100% supernatural theories, and the most important for me, Christianity dismisses them. So, these things i would like to discuss. If telepathy exists or not, it's useless to ask, because even if it is or nor, as i said before, science can offer an explanation, and Christianity doesn't dismiss these.

[Nacho]

My friend have you heard about Uri Geller, who bends spoons?

A prooved fake. Next one?

[Adamski]

The existance of 'white' and 'dark' magic as you describe it is total fantasy, which is what Eric forgot to say before pointing you to places that explain why. The human imagination is good at rationalising something completely ficticious when there is a lack of understanding - and it's especially easy to dupe people with illusions and clever psychological tricks (even moreso if they're young or easily impressionable) - so you're better off worrying about where your next meal is coming from than the existance of 'magic'

[SilverWizard_OTF]

You know, i am glad because i hear that Uri Geller's abilities are just a lie
Listen, basically i would like all these paranormal powers such as telepathy to don't exist. I think human should not have so much powers. If you read my posts carefully, you will realise that i am not saying that surely exists or surely not telepathy, telekinisis e.t.c. I hope, as i said, that they don't exist and all these "experiments" are totally lies!
Ã, But this topic is for Christianity and White Magic (and Spiritualism). I like that you have done research about telepathy, but please tell your opinion about magic anf communication with dead only. Because, as i said before, EVEN IF telepathy exists, it doesn't matter, because this matter hasn't any religious consequences.
Ã,  However, if i find any telepthy-event that troubles me, i will ask your advice through a P.M. maybe Ã, 

[Erenan]

Christianity and White Magic...

Erenan's opinion: White magic probably does not make sense within the confines of Christian theology.

Christianity and communication with the dead...

Refer to I Samuel 28.


This reminds me of an article that Robert Fripp quoted in his online diary two weeks ago.


~~~~~~~~~

British Association for the Advancement of Science

Theories of telepathy and afterlife cause uproar at top science forum
The Times Ã, September 06, 2006 By Mark Henderson, Science Editor

SCIENTISTS claiming to have evidence of life after death and the powers of telepathy triggered a furious row at Britain¹s premier science festival yesterday. Organisers of the British Association for the Advancement of Science (the BA) were accused of lending credibility to maverick theories on the paranormal by allowing the highly controversial research to be aired unchallenged.

Leading members of the science establishment criticised the BA¹s decision to showcase papers purporting to demonstrate telepathy and the survival of human consciousness after someone dies. They said that such ideas, which are widely rejected by experts, had no place in the festival without challenge from sceptics.

The disputed session featured research from Rupert Sheldrake, an independent biologist who is funded by Trinity College, Cambridge, that claims to have found evidence that some people know telepathically who is calling them before they answer the telephone.

Other presentations came from Peter Fenwick, a doctor who thinks deathbed visions suggest that consciousness survives when people die, and from Deborah Delanoy of the University of Hertfordshire, whose work suggests that people can affect the bodies of others by thinking about them.

Critics including Lord Winston and Sir Walter Bodmer, both former presidents of the BA, expressed particular alarm that the three speakers were allowed to hold a promotional press conference. Some said telepathy has already been found wanting in experiments, and had no place at a scientific meeting.

"Work in this field is a complete waste of time," said Peter Atkins, Professor of Chemistry at the University of Oxford, "though it is politically incorrect to dismiss ideas out of hand, in this case there is absolutely no reason to suppose that telepathy is anything more than a charlatan's fantasy."

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

www.randi.org is the place to go to if you want to read about the latest hucksters on the block and their many evasions of actual empirical tests on their supposed 'powers'.

[SilverWizard_OTF]

Hmm, Nacho, ok, i said "These things (telepathy) of course are exist" but by mistake, i didn't mean it. I will modify it...

[SilverWizard_OTF]

Erenan, Christianity dismisses any method fro to communicate with dead. Except of course if God allows this for a specific reason.

[Nacho]

Ok...

Now, if you want to know my personal beliefs about all the supernatural stuff in the Bible, and life after life, I would say that these events have suffered the same exact process than the ones we agree that are unreal... Credulity, need to invent something to fight fear to death, or need to think that our beloved departed relatives are in a better place, but nothing is real, after all.

I don't tend to be so harsh about religion, tought, because I think that the tale behind the message is not so important after the message itself. Basically, if you feel more open to love the others after reading any religious book, I am not going to criticise the fact that people walking over the waters, or prophets flying over donkeys are total stupidities...

[Erenan]

Erenan, Christianity dismisses any method fro to communicate with dead. Except of course if God allows this for a specific reason.

So if God sometimes allows the supernatural, then what's the contradiction?

[SilverWizard_OTF]

Nacho, everything is a matter of belief, isn't it? I believe in Christianity, but i love people because i feel it, not because i fear that i will go to hell if i hate the other e.t.c. about miracles now, Christians Monks, if you read history, you'll see that they did more thatn "flying, turning people into sheeps e.t.c.". Healing, giving hope, courage, these were their offer to humanity. If they are truth or not, no one can answer for sure.

Erenan, there is the huge contradiction that if you try to communicate with a spirit, this isn't happening, how can i say it, to the name of Jesus, because Jesus himself dismisses such actions. So, Jesus doesn't "help" your trial. As a consequence, every supernatural activity that you will do will be with the assistance of dark powers. At least all of these are what Cristianity believes.

[Nacho]

Giving hope and courage is not supernatural... what are you talking about?

About healing, if you mean it "supernatural healing"... dude: Do you mean the medieval writings? It is dare to call this writings "history", you know?

Do you also believe in swords in rocks, dragons and ladies living in lakes?

[Becky]

An anger to my text?  No, not really.  I just can't see the difference between one set of "white" supernatural beliefs, another set of "black" or "dark" supernatural beliefs, or the idea that the supernatural beliefs inherent within Christian doctrine are somehow above/different to these.

Don't mind me