Christianity VS White Magic (Only for Spiritualist/WhiteMagicians & Christians)

[lo_res_man]

Anyone subscribe to the discworld theory of deities? A very interesting explanation if we had gods that DID anything. As a philosopher, I subscribe to deism, that is some god or gods created the universe and then gave the whole thing up as a bad job. what happened after that is open for debate. heck, its ALL open for debate. I just think from my own thoughtful analyses that a creator is necessary but I have 50 % chance of being wrong. to quote a crustacean doctor high on happy pills [in mock-Yiddish accent] "Why all the fighting?" Why do we get so rattled when, all in all its all, its just a matter of opinion and belief? why do we incensed over these things? I say live day by day, as best we can, helping others, and following our own Way. What is truth? I don't know, but if we don't have to kill ourselves over it.

[Mordalles]

This is why I don't care if God exists after me being a colossal unrepentant atheist for all my life: he wouldn't mind, he wouldn't judge me, I'd go straight to heaven, along with everybody else. If god exists, he loves us all, and that's great. It's a win/win situation for me.

nope.
only those who accept Him as their God and has faith in Him will go to heaven.
in other words, if God exists, atheists are not in a win/win situation at all.

[lo_res_man]

thats only if you go by a rather stringent interpatation of the bible, a book which I don't compleatly trust, due to the fact it was written by PEOPLE. people who may have been bonkers, had there own adgenda, or simply misinterpated. 

[Helm]

This is why I don't care if God exists after me being a colossal unrepentant atheist for all my life: he wouldn't mind, he wouldn't judge me, I'd go straight to heaven, along with everybody else. If god exists, he loves us all, and that's great. It's a win/win situation for me.

nope.
only those who accept Him as their God and has faith in Him will go to heaven.
in other words, if God exists, atheists are not in a win/win situation at all.

Okay.

[Esseb]

This is why I don't care if God exists after me being a colossal unrepentant atheist for all my life: he wouldn't mind, he wouldn't judge me, I'd go straight to heaven, along with everybody else. If god exists, he loves us all, and that's great. It's a win/win situation for me.

nope.
only those who accept Him as their God and has faith in Him will go to heaven.
in other words, if God exists, atheists are not in a win/win situation at all.

But which one? I sure wouldn't want to piss one of by having spent my life believing in the wrong one. If I go with atheism I'm at least safe with all the gods who don't give a damn if I don't believe in them, as long as I don't believe in any of the other ones.

[LimpingFish]

I think Agnostics are better off than Atheists...

"I never said I didn't believe in you!"

EDIT: What's a "White Mage" and does it nulify my +12 Mace?

[SilverWizard_OTF]

I agree with all that Nikolas said. Especially to the matter of the phrase "In my opinion".
Renal Shutdown.... are you serious? You the one who offends, not me.
"I'm not going to say you're going to hell because of the color of your shirt, don't disrespect other people's opinions in the same way." Sorry, but that sounds like a stupidity! I don't disrespect, where did you see that??? It is you who disrespect with YOUR offenses. I DIDN'T offend anyone.
"I see my Fear/Greed section got completely omitted. Ã, Do you have to ask your priest about that one?" Indeed i omitted it , not because i wanted to ask a priest's advice, just i thought the answer is obvious, but it seems the answer is not obvious for you

{"He", the Father, etc.. Ã, What version of the Bible are you reading?} No comment for this disagreement Renal Shutdown, only that the phrase "If you're going to read the Bible, at least do it with some conviction and not just read what's been laid out in front of you" it seems that it goes to you. Because i doubt you will search what i mean, let me help you Ã,  Ã, "Father, Son and Holy Ghost".

"The people who haven't heard about Christianity (rain forest people, who are covered by Islam).. Ã, What happens to them? Ã, From what I remember from the Bible, they don't get a mention.." I will repeat it: the phrase Ã, "If you're going to read the Bible, at least do it with some conviction and not just read what's been laid out in front of you" indeed goes to you. Or another explanation is that you suffer from amnesia. What from these two is happening???

Maybe i offended you in this reply, to show you that is not a very good idea to have a discussion talking ironically, as you did but i, whatever you say, i didn't

I am someone who was Christian, then while i was still a Christian searched many religions, then in a specific time i was troubled with Spiritualism and White Magic, searched them, their fhilosophy and the way that they face problems and finally i dismissed them and i came back to Christianity and even if i don't follow it with great passion e.g. like a Monk, i am trying to discover if this religion expresses fully my heart and to remain to, if not a white path, at least to a silver path. That's all about now. I didn't reply to this question for to do your favour, but for to prompt White Mages and Christians to share their way of researching up to now.

I am not going to ask you what is YOUR actual faith, because this question, since you are not a Christian or White Mage, is out-off topic

[Mordalles]

well, as far as i know, i think Christians and Muslims (Islam) believe in the same God.
where Christians believe Jesus already died for us, I think Muslims are still waiting for the "messiah/prophet".

[Pesty]

I think that if the creator of the universe is a petty enough dude that he requires people to be completely devoted to him for their entire lives, I'd be better off hanging out with the devil, because at least he doesn't care about what you believe in, he accepts you for who you are.

Fortunately, one time God came by my house and made me lunch and told me "Don't worry Pesty, you don't have to be a Christian or even a White Mage for me to love you! THE MAGIC WAS INSIDE YOU ALL ALONG!"

So I guess I don't have to worry about where I'm going when I die. God and me are like THIS.

[LimpingFish]

Fortunately, one time God came by my house and made me lunch and told me "Don't worry Pesty, you don't have to be a Christian or even a White Mage for me to love you! THE MAGIC WAS INSIDE YOU ALL ALONG!"

I think that was ET.

[Pesty]

Fortunately, one time God came by my house and made me lunch and told me "Don't worry Pesty, you don't have to be a Christian or even a White Mage for me to love you! THE MAGIC WAS INSIDE YOU ALL ALONG!"

I think that was ET.

No, I think I'd notice if a walking penis made me lunch.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Note:  This reply is related to the turn the thread has taken rather than the original topic of Christianity and Spiritualists/White Magic.

These sorts of discussions never go anywhere but to multiple pages, do they-- and in all honesty I'm curious, what's the point, really?  Step back and take a look at the way religious type discussions pan out:  with a very closed view on both sides of the dime; either you don't believe and won't be convinced or you do believe and won't be dissuaded.  If there was some sort of headway to be made in such a discussion I'd say yeah, go for it, but no progress will be made here toward any kind of understanding or resolution, so I ask what's the point?  Entertainment?  Boredom relief? 

God exists for those who believe in the message of the Bible and its teachings, or the teachings of holy documents like the Qur'an,etc.  God does not exist for those who value science and tangible truths above faith or those who simply don't believe in an overarching presence that guides man.

I could not convince you that there is a God  any more than you could convince me there is not one, so my question stands:  why are threads like this so popular?

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!

[Helm]

Because underlining the differences between ourselves and others makes us feel like distinct people, outside of the herd and such?

[lo_res_man]

I could not convince you that there is a God any more than you could convince me there is not one, so my question stands: why are threads like this so popular?

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!

I have no idea, a friend of mine had the idea that religion started because certen people wanted control, but if thats true, why does it cause such strong feelings? Why are wars fought over whether islam should be led by a relitive of the founder, or not? Nations have been SLAUGHTERED over these questions. Its just so STUPID. I like religion, it does good, it has provided sociel programs, help with schooling, created great art and music, and inspired people to love there fellow man. but so many wars, so many wars.
And why does it so popular with US? Maybe the internet attracts these kind of people.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Because underlining the differences between ourselves and others makes us feel like distinct people, outside of the herd and such?

Isn't this just an illusion, since striving to be 'outside of the herd' as you put it often involves falling into just another category?

[Helm]

Because underlining the differences between ourselves and others makes us feel like distinct people, outside of the herd and such?

Isn't this just an illusion, since striving to be 'outside of the herd' as you put it often involves falling into just another category?

Dunno. I just hate black people.

[lo_res_man]

Because underlining the differences between ourselves and others makes us feel like distinct people, outside of the herd and such?

Isn't this just an illusion, since striving to be 'outside of the herd' as you put it often involves falling into just another category?

I think that's why, we like feeling like part of a group, and we like hating other groups.
When scientists did studies on group psychology, they found jingoism could be achieved with einie meenie minie mo. we like to say our group is best, and we like to prove it in time honoured competitions . been on a sports team and a team fan can fill this desperate need. So canÃ, religion

[Erenan]

It is very clear to me you don't believe in the Christianity I am familiar with. The bible says a lot of things. You tell me with some authority that 'that's not the type of forgiveness God endorses, sorry!' but you have your extraconceptual sources and I just point out what happened in the bible: Christ/God forgave everyone without the smallest bit of repentance by them. He uh.. died for their sins. Gladly. That is the crux (haha, small pun!) of Christian doctorine. What a petty god he would be if he only forgave those that aknowledged him and asked for forgiveness directly. This is why I don't care if God exists after me being a colossal unrepentant atheist for all my life: he wouldn't mind, he wouldn't judge me, I'd go straight to heaven, along with everybody else. If god exists, he loves us all, and that's great. It's a win/win situation for me.

Of course for the social institution that is the Church what I am describing is BAD BUSINESS, and of course they need hell, they need earthly messengers and forgivers and they need to be them themselves. That shouldn't define the premise of the Christian faith, which is to the best of my knowledge UNCONDITIONAL NEVER-ENDING LOVE.

We could argue about Christianity for a long time, but what it looks like to me is that I understand one thing from the Bible, while you apparently understand something else. All I can really say is that Jesus did in fact teach forgiveness prompted by repentance. He taught this in parable (Matt. 15) and he taught this in plain words (Luke 17). I don't know where you've gotten this notion that God forgives sins with or without repentance. And I don't know if you're interested even the least in reading the Bible at this point, but since we're talking about it, I figured it was logical to refer to it.

In my understanding, forgiveness first benefits the forgiven. If someone does something to me, believing that they have done nothing wrong and ask for no forgiveness, even in fact rejecting it outright, and I go up to them and say, "I forgive you," they are going to say to me, "Fuck you." So then, what's the use of this? Forgiveness makes no sense unless it is wanted.

What you seem to be is not very christianic for me, you seem to grasp theology, or at least have devoted a lot of your time to it, but for you to tell me with a straight face that you don't see how real faith is about forgiving the sinner without them asking to be forgiven, I'd say you're not the good sort of christian, in my opinion.

I'm going by what the Bible and Jesus himself appear to me to have taught. I'm also fairly certain that we don't understand the same thing by the word "faith."

Which was the point: I don't want his forgiveness at all. I shit on his forgiveness. But he better forgive me, turn the other cheek, so on, if he wants to be a Christian. FAITH IS DIFFICULT. Christ's standard is a very high one. Get to it.

Yes, his standard is difficult. But in my opinion this is not Christ's standard that you're suggesting.

Also, I don't care if you spit on any cross. And if you should find Christ's body and spit on that, then I'd certainly not be a Christian.

Is there some sort of freudian I/you error in that sentence, as it makes no sense now.

No, I meant that if you find Christ's body and ask me to forgive you for spitting on it, I won't, because a Rotting Christ () would suggest to me that he wasn't God and didn't rise from the dead.

I didn't detect any anger

Good to know. 

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Forgiveness makes no sense unless it is wanted.

This isn't strictly true.  While it doesn't benefit the person you forgive, in many ways true forgiveness can benefit you emotionally by lifting baggage and such, particularly from difficult events in your life.  So I wouldn't say forgiveness is useless if the person who wrongs you doesn't care, so long as it lifts some emotional torment from you to do so.

[Erenan]

Of course, but then we're not talking about a faith issue any longer, and that's what I'm debating at least.